Kargun's page

Agreed . . . How remorseful is the wizard? or how likely is he to perform penance? After all, everything he did was to achieve greater heights of arcane mastery! If the inquisitor had helped him rather than ditch him, everything could have been fine!

I would definitely consider implementing many of the good suggestions in this thread and have long term "I don't see what I did wrong" syndrome, coupled with an attitude of "it's your fault this happened to us" toward the inquisitor. Could be interesting playing as unrepentant for a while and maybe work with the DM to have a snapping point placed in front of you (or maybe it is already in your past waiting for you to uncover it).

Oh he isn't remorseful - In fact, I don't see him putting two and two together actually, and seeing this as a penance. He'll approach it logically, as either a curse that can be removed or if not, something that can be circumvented. He's very stubborn and may well blame the inquisitor, but certainly won't accept blame himself for tying to further his knowledge and power (the highest of pursuits in his eyes).

The one thing I am curious about, and this is more regarding the curse mechanics than anything else, is how the DM plans to handle you gaining a level while under this. Would you get new spells added to your spellbook? Would you get spell "credit" so when you finally can read/write without drawback you can scribe all those spells you would have gotten? When you gain new spell slots, do you get more spells in you mind, or are you stuck with only the current spells regardless? I think this is a pretty cool mechanic, and kudos to your DM with coming up with it.

I'll speak with our DM about this over the weekend. However we approach it, I know that at the end of the day I won't be forced to drag useless wizard levels around with me. He'll probably just give me spell "credits" for new spells; I may have to suffer empty spell slots though for new slots. That's assuming I take levels in wizard - I'm not opposed to taking a couple of levels in another class, IF it will ultimately compliment my wizard class. Again, we'll need to speak about it.

So I've found out a little bit more about the curse. It is in fact not a curse, but a PENANCE. Our DM made it very clear that he named it as such for specific reasons, which I should be able to fathom.

So clearly those of you saying that I may have to perform some specific act or reach some kind of spiritual or moral revelation were correct! :)

I've got lots of great ideas from this thread though as to how to deal with the problem in the meantime. However, though I may have this new knowledge in a meta sense, my character does not. So I'll still be RPing it as he would, which would be to take a logical approach rather than consider there may be a spiritual or moral solution. Should be a lot of fun! :)

Kargun wrote:

Gluttony wrote:

Even if you can't cast it, would it be possible to stock up on potions of comprehend languages for the purpose of spell preparation, until you can get the curse fixed?

You don't need to read a potion, and you could pay someone else to make it for you.

This was one of my first ideas. However, [Brew Potion] cannot be used to create potions who's target is "you" and range is "personal". So by those rules you can't have a potion of "comprehend languages". :(

Hmm... How about a potion of Share Language then? It's an iffy case, since by the potion rules you would be both the target and caster of the spell (essentially you'd be sharing a language with yourself. Share languages doesn't technically prohibit this, it's just a pointless use of the spell in most situations, but some GMs might in a situation like this) but the spell allows its target to read, understand, and communicate in a language the caster knows. As the potion drinker, and therefore the caster, you'd be allowing yourself to read, understand and communicate in a language you know.

Assuming you still know whatever language your spellbook is in (which sounds like the case, since you haven't mentioned being unable to talk), the spell's effect may very well allow you to read it. At the very least it may allow for a caster level check to temporarily overcome the curse and let you read that language.

Might be worth asking your GM about.

--EDIT: Or get a wand of comprehend languages (can't believe I didn't think of that). 750gp, doesn't require reading to activate, or any check at all if you have the spell in your spellbook. Seems like it would work.

Well, though it doesn't explicitly state in the rules, I get the feeling that the intention of "share Language" is to duplicate language abilities. So if I can't read a language, for whatever reason, then neither can the target. I could take it a step further and make my familiar the target, because at level 5 it can speak with me. Therefore maybe it could read the language and speak it back to me? I may still face the initial problem though, that i cannot read said language myself.

Good idea to find the wand though! I'll definitely try.

Even if you can't cast it, would it be possible to stock up on potions of comprehend languages for the purpose of spell preparation, until you can get the curse fixed?

You don't need to read a potion, and you could pay someone else to make it for you.

This was one of my first ideas. However, [Brew Potion] cannot be used to create potions who's target is "you" and range is "personal". So by those rules you can't have a potion of "comprehend languages". :(

I really like the idea of taking Perform (Oratory) and developing an oral/aural method of spell storage. Maybe take Leadership to get an apprentice to help you convert your spellbook and add spells going forward. Granted, this depends on buy in from the DM.

To fully sell this, I suggest actually coming up with haikus/sonnets/limericks/etc that you recite to the group when preparing spells (An aura present/Hinting at strange mysteries/Do I see magic?). I can't speak for your DM, but I would allow it for the sake of coolness. :)

Otherwise, definitely play the desperate type. Be willing to make shady deals with unsavory folks to get your power back (after all, you should be a mighty wizard!). Maybe even sell out the inquisitor as suggested.

The perform ideas are quite appealing to me too. Anything that will add to the groups amusement is likely to be a fairly easy sell to our DM. He'll make me do the whole song and dance though - Literally! :)

If you're fine with it, I'd have fun while 'looking' for a solution.

Do you have Craft Wondrous Item? See if you can use ghost sound to 'enchant' your spellbook to be a magical speak-and-spell.

"Fireball. F-I-R-E-B-A-L-L. Fireball." Kawhoom!

Scroll Fax machine. You have a helmet you 'feed' the scroll into and it stores the spell in your mind. Expensive, but funny.

Spell-o-vision! A refinement of speak-and-spellbook. You open it to a page and a little illusion goes through the gestures while ghost sound provides the words.

Think of all the trouble you could get the party into looking for a cure. "Sure Mister Demon, you lift this curse, I'll give you an inquisitor! Best of all he can't lie, so you can ask him all about his church!"

Edit: Forgot, design an ASR (Arcane Spell Reader) tool. A wand that can hold X spells, by 'scanning' your spellbook.

Love these ideas! I'm sure my DM would be agreeable to creating custom magic items. What the cost of them will be and what hoops I'll have to jump through could be interesting though!

And I'm always happy to sell out our inquisitor! :D

I think that so far the GM should be applauded for good engineering of the situation. He presented the player with a temptation that the player KNEW was going to get him in trouble, and it did. Then the player was tempted again (the box), and again knew that picking the naughty choice would get him in trouble. Judging by the size of the potential reward, he knew the potential punishment would also be quite dire. And his partner the naughty inquisitor could be counted on to pick VICE as well. So all in all he was walking into it with wide open eyes. The GM didn't do anything sneaky here; he was quite upfront about the scale and likelihood of the risks/rewards/punishments.

Then there's the second issue: a non-standard curse. Get your pitchforks, the GM used something nonstandard. Oh no.

With the story though, it becomes entirely clear why the GM resorted to a non-standard curse: to make the punishment fit the crime. The wizard was too greedy for new magic, and now he's entirely stuck with his old magic. Not stuck with no magic; stuck with OLD magic.

A thousand times this! Glad you can see the situation for what it is, and thanks for all the great input! :)

Icyshadow wrote:

Nah, I'd call the DM lucky, since I don't want to call the Player a moron.

Have you never had a character die/something horrible happen to a character and, afterwords, you thought "Ok, that was totally my fault. And it was actually pretty funny."

I can't believe you're calling the player a moron for having fun playing Pathfinder.

The DM and I have been good friends for many years, and I trust him to make sure I continue to enjoy the game. He's not out to deliberately screw me, but he's always made it clear that actions have consequences.

I'm surprised by how many people seem to be upset by the situation the DM has set up. My original post was asking about clever ideas, not asking if my DM is has screwed me over. Perhaps others have had bad experiences, but I consider myself lucky to have a DM who is trusted friend and a great story teller. He'll also listen to me if I become unhappy with my situation, but I'm perfectly content with the consequences of my actions, and even looking forward to the RP opportunities it presents. I don't care that it's outside the scope of the rules - If the rules get in the way of the fun, we often bend or change them.

Whaddaya mean, crossbows aren't wizardly ? Apprentices these days *mutter*.

Did Gandalf ever use a crossbow? Did Saruman? Merlin? Raistlin? Case closed! ;)

You may be stuck with wands for a little while. By the way, I really love your GM. Also, pick up a crossbow and help out that way. But wow, awesome story line.

Oh I have a crossbow, only it's not a crossbow! It has exactly the same stats, but I felt that a crossbow isn't very wizardly. So I spoke with our DM and asked if I could have a custom weapon that we just refer to as a "staff augment" - It's a device that attaches to the base of my staff, that fires energy bolts. I have to flip the staff upside down and arm it (with energy crystals I make), just like switching to a crossbow, and the damage is exactly the same - It's just cooler! :P

Based on your account of the session (and campaign), and the fact that the GM is letting you refresh your current spells, just not update them, this actually sounds like a fantastic RP opportunity.

So, shenanigans...

Scarification. Scar the symbols onto your body and read them with your fingers. Too extreme, you say? Nonsense! How could any sacrifice not be made in the pursuit of power!

Put ranks into Perform (Oratory) and come up with elaborate rhyming chants that your wizard uses to re-memorise his spells. ("Lens of will and well of power, draw upon them hour by hour, safe I'll be from other's rage, in the armour of a mage." For example.)

The same idea, but with Perform (Dance), and using interpretive dances. (I'm not going to describe an example interpretive dance. Just no.) Both of these ideas effectively create a new magical language for the character.

Practice meditation, and work towards reestablishing the character's concept of his spells from first principles. See how many of them he can hold in his head.

In general, I suspect working with the spellbook itself is missing the point. Your character is getting pushed to examine his relationship to his power.

I'm not suggesting you take it just for this, but if you'd planned to take Spell Mastery *anyway*, you might as well start roleplaying towards it now (I like the idea of being set up for the "lost spellbook" scenario, which is why I like Eschew Materials too.)

See how versatile you can be with just the spells available to you. See how abusable they are, and how far your character can stretch their use. He's getting a feel of what it's like to be a sorcerer (admittedly, a crap sorcerer). He should *treasure* his versatility after this!

Absolutely, this is an excellent RP opportunity and I fully intend to approach it as such. This campaign has focused a lot more on RPing than on combat (though there's been plenty of that too), unlike previous campaigns. Even combat is sometimes heavily influenced by character personalities and what they would and would not do. Some sessions have been 100% RP with no combat and honestly, they've been some of my favorite ever! :) It's great to have the whole group so heavily invested in their character's personalities and party dynamic.

Shenanigans indeed! All of your ideas have merit and I shall explore them in coming sessions, depending on what more I learn as I explore the curse. It's definitely an opportunity to revisit the source of my power. I'm totally going to see how far I can abuse my memorized spells. For the record, they're as follows:

* 0: Detect Magic, Ray Of Frost, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand
* 1: Sleep, Vanish, Enlarge Person, Silent Image, Burning Hands
* 2: Invisibility, Knock, Levitate

So as you can see, a lot of utility spells - Combat could be rough, but I can always evade it! :P

My character has also got quite a few ranks in alchemy, from previous experience. It may be time to delve into that further and see what I can make. I have [Brew Potion] and [Craft Wonderous Item] also, which I should be able to make use of.

Wow - I wasn't expecting to wake up to so many awesome responses! :)

Firstly, let me clarify something - I trust our GM and have no doubt he has something in mind. He probably also wants to create an interesting RP situation, and he's certainly done so. However, even if he has some grand plan, he's great when it comes to rewarding CLEVER solutions to problems he throws at us, even if it breaks his master plan. On the other hand, if he's just overlooked a minor rule that easily breaks his scheme, such as "read magic" being prepare-able without a spellbook, then he may just overrule it, as it's not a CLEVER solution to the problem. This is why I suspect it won't work, though I'll certainly try it.

This is why I'm looking for outside-the-box solutions, rather than just rule lawyering. Something like teaching a magical helper monkey to read the books to me! :D I really like the braille idea (though I'm not sure if such a language exists in the Inner Sea) and the riffle scrolls idea could have potential.

I still have spells, so I'm not a "commoner" as some people suggested - Our DM said that every time we rest, the last spells I had memorized are re-prepred. So I'll get the same spells over and over and just can't change them up or add new ones for the moment.

So yes I'm OK with the situation. Our DM isn't just being a dick - He's trying to create interesting RP scenarios. And honestly, I totally brought this on myself (which I'll get to below) in full knowledge that when our DM does "punish" our characters, it's probably going to be a rough ride! ;)

Someone asked HOW this curse came about. Well it was pretty funny, and I knew I was going to screw myself, but it was what my character would do! A little background though first...

<FYI, this get LONG! If you just want to read about the actual curse event, skip to the last couple of paragraphs. The background info is what makes it funny though.>

I'm playing Kaltharnus Drax - A wizard who, at the start of the campaign, woke up in the Varisian desert with minimal knowledge of his past. He knew his name but that was about it. He could still recall most practical knowledge, such as Arcana, History, Geography, etc., but nothing personal. He's also totally obsessed with the pursuit of new knowledge & the study of magic. He doesn't seem too bothered that he can't remember his past, but he is partly driven to learn on account of the fact he vaguely recalls that he used to be much more powerful. He's also plagued by nightmares and honestly a little bonkers! Beyond this, I've left his past mostly blank, with just a few hints at where I think he may have come from, so our DM can fill in the blanks as he sees fit and create a mysterious background for him, unknown even to me! Oh, and I have an owl familiar named Egrix, who spends much of his time leading people to wherever I've been knocked unconscious this time (I get KOed a LOT - I'm ok with it. My time to shine will come!). Kaltharnus needs to learn not to wander off on his own so much, or stride into danger so easily because there's some tome or magic item within his reach!

Onto our party - A half-orc barbarian called Mug, looking to become a leader amongst his people and unite warring factions; A reserved human druid called Krojun, thoughtful but somewhat of a loner, strongly protective of nature. And then there's Caleb Clay - An inquisitor of Azmodeus, who clearly has some hidden agenda. Meta-wise, we know Caleb lies or hides the truth about everything, and that he's an evil devil worshiper (the rest of us are generally good or neutral, though we don't follow the alignment system very rigidly). In character though, he's done a few shady things but we don't know that he's evil, nor a devil worshiper.

Kaltharnus (me) and Caleb have had a troubled relationship. At first, things were neutral, but then Caleb tried to attack/restrain Kaltharnus in his own private wagon (we're traveling in a caravan). Kaltharnus was able to evade him by turning invisible and fleeing, but Caleb perused and when I fought back, Caleb feigned that I had struck him with powerful magics and collapsed (my roll totally failed though). The rest of the party turned up at this point due to all the noise, but Caleb convinced them that I had attacked him first! Anyway, we were both locked away separately for the night, Caleb still feigning mortal injury. However, he'd dropped his precious spiked chain weapon in Kaltharnus's wagon, during the initial fight. So I threw it far into the woods, using magic (out the wagon window). When he found out, he was very upset. Meta-wise, it was all a hilarious scenario though.

Anyway, Kaltharnus now clearly didn't trust Caleb. However, Caleb then later comes to him, apologizes and pledges to serve with Kaltharnus as his master!!! He didn't trust him at first, but for a while Caleb did all that was commanded of him, and appeared to be loyal servant.

That all took place many sessions ago. Spin on to the last two sessions. We're in the city of Jol, in the Land Of The Linnorm Kings. Kaltharnus has gone out exploring and found a magic shop. He purchases some magic scrolls, but then the storekeeper shows him some other powerful magic items, way above his level and purse. When he discovers he can't acquire them through coin or persuasion (yeh, who's going to give away rare magic items?) he becomes quite upset. He returns to the group caravan and tried to persuade both the druid (as there was a magical nature artifact there too) and his servant Caleb to help him break into the store and take the magical items he so desires. However, both refuse! This is the first time Caleb has refused a direct order - There is an argument and ultimately Kaltharnus breaks bonds with Caleb and dismisses him from his service - So we're enemies again! So Kaltharnus heads out into the night alone (it never ends well when he goes alone) to commit larceny! Long story short, he gets arrested - Big surprise!

So the city guard come to the party caravan and bring them before King Opir Eightfingers of Jol. He's NOT happy! Kaltharnus is there in chains. He tells the party that they are to leave the city immediately (without Kaltharnus) but to send one person back within a week, when the weregild (i.e. fine) will be set. If it cannot be paid then Kaltharnus will be sold into slavery. So the group leaves for a week, has some minor challenges to overcome, surviving outside the city (I'm playing an alternate cleric character I break out when Kaltharnus gets into these kind of situations - It's not the first time!). Then who do they send into the city to represent/defend me once the week is over? G%+++*n Caleb Clay!!!

So Opir Eightfingers sets the weregild at a pretty steep price, but just within our budget. Caleb, of course, doesn't want to pay using his hard earned cash (he's also the caravan's face-man and trader - The guy knows how to talk his way into position), so he tries to use his honeyed words to resolve the situation. Meta-wise, I know he's not concerned with freeing Kaltharnus, but really after a plot artifact that he had on him at the time of capture - So freeing Kaltharnus means getting it back.

He doesn't have much luck, but then Opir Eightfingers suggests an alternative. He happens to have a magical device in his possession that he's curious to see tested, but has had no one volunteer to do so. The device is a box with two holes for hands on opposite sides. He explains that two people each put a hand into the device. They then have 60 seconds to make a choice (signified by grasping one of two glyphs on their side of the box - Vice & Virtue). It's basically "The Prisoners Dilemma" challenge! If we both choose virtue we'll each receive a minor, but temporary punishment. If one chooses vice and the other virtue, then virtue gets a minor punishment but Vice gets a MAJOR reward! However, if we both choose vice we each get a MAJOR, permanent punishment. We're individually and secretly told what our MAJOR reward will be as soon as the test starts, but not the MAJOR punishment. We start the test and I learn that my MAJOR reward would be the two magical items that I tried to steal from the shop and got me into all this trouble in the first place! Well you already know what I choose at this point - Kaltharnus can never resist the opportunity for magical gain! Meta-wise, I knew choosing vice was a BAD decision; I was almost certain Caleb would do the same, if his reward was as tempting as mine. Well guess what, we BOTH chose VICE and *BAM*, cursed! It wasn't until the choice was made though that we each (secretly) learned what our curse were - I could no longer read!!! Pretty brutal for a wizard! I later learned that Caleb's curse is that he may no longer tell a lie - Not as crippling, but still going to be awfully funny to RP for his character.

Anyway, that's how I ended up with the curse! :P

I forgot to mention, I have the feats brew potion & craft wondrous item, if they can be used in some way. I've considered creating a helm of Comprehend Languages and Read Magic, but that assumes that those spells help me in any way.

Whilst your answer makes sense to me, it's probably insufficient to overcome the "curse". According to our DM, whenever I look at anything written down, the words/symbols are blurry and dance around on the page, making me sick. so I'm not even certain "read magic" or "comprehend languages" will work.

I've learned from experience that trying to "rule lawyer" our DM when he has an idea in mind, usually works out badly. So I need something more ingenious than "i can read arcane writings despite the curse". :(

Thanks for your input though.

I'm currently playing a level 4 wizard in our campaign. Last session, through reasons that were both completely my own fault and totally hilarious, my wizard was cursed so that he can no longer read! This obviously presents somewhat of a problem, given that wizards rather need to be able to read in order to memorize spells, read scrolls, and generally do smart things!

I'm still not completely clear on the nature of the curse - Details will no doubt be revealed as we play out over the next couple of sessions. I'm looking for suggestions though, as to how to cope with an illiterate wizard! He retains all knowledge previously gained, but can no longer comprehend written words no matter how hard he tries - In fact, it makes him ill to attempt to do so!

I'm as yet unsure how the spells read magic and comprehend languages will affect him. In theory, i should be able to cast "read magic" in order to comprehend my spellbook, since it's the only spell that can be prepared without reading a spellbook. However, I have a sneaking suspicion that our DM may disallow this once he realizes it allows me to easily circumvent his "curse". Comprehend languages may also help, though given that it has a target of "you, personal", I'm not sure how to get it cast on me.

I'm also fairly certain this isn't a standard curse, that could be lifted with a remove curse spell.

The plus side is that I can still cast the spells I had previously memorized, as if I'd prepared them after every rest.

So I'm looking for outside-the-box suggestions as to how to play a wizard who cannot read, and therefore prepare his spells. If i can't use read magic or comprehend languages, what else can I do? Perhaps get someone to read my spellbook to me? Use my familiar to somehow read the spellbook? etc.

any ideas would be greatly appreciated! :)

Cheers!