Kaleb the Opportunist's page

I am currently playing a Druid9 Monk1. Typically, he takes the shape of a giant for combat. I have reached the point where my vision has come together. Now I am trying to figure where to go from here. What feats, magic items, Spells, & etc. do you recommend?

Typical combat: Already in giant form, cast Aspect of the Wolf to get +4 Str. & Dex plus swift action trip attack. Move into melee reach, threatening as many enemies as possible and activating pack tactics for flank bonuses. Then a swift action trip attack to move my enemy where I want, provoking as many AoO's as possible. The rest of the fight looks like Hulk vs. Loki.

Outdoors, he uses Stegosaurus form with vital strike to bash, trip, bash over a wider area

In Human form he uses the same strategy to lesser success and does damage with shillelagh.

Male human (in Moss Troll form) (Shoanti) druid (goliath druid, shoanti shaman) 9/monk (sage counselor, sohei) 1
LN Large humanoid (human)
Init +4; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent, scent; Perception +23 (+31 vs. smells)
—————
Defense
—————
AC 23, touch 18, flat-footed 20 (+3 Dex, +1 monk, +5 natural, -1 size, +5 Wis)
hp 82 (10d8+29)
Fort +12, Ref +10, Will +15; -4 penalty vs. odor-related effects, +4 vs. spell-like and supernatural abilities of giants
—————
Offense
—————
Speed 30 ft.
Melee (L) +1 club +10/+5 (4d6+19) or
unarmed strike +13/+8 (4d6+14) or
unarmed strike flurry of blows +12/+12/+7 (4d6+14) or
quarterstaff +11/+6 (1d8+18) or
quarterstaff flurry of blows +10/+10/+5 (1d8+14) or
bite +11 (1d8+12), 2 claws +11 (1d8+12)
Ranged shoanti bola +8 (1d6+8)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.; claws 15 ft
Special Attacks flurry of blows, wild shape 4/day
Druid Spells Prepared (CL 10th; concentration +15)
5th—aspect of the wolf D(cast), tree stride, wall of thorns
4th—freedom of movement, life bubble, 2x strong jaw D(cast)
3rd—aspect of the wolf D, call lightning (DC 18), daylight, greater magic fang (unarmed strike +2), poison (DC 18)
2nd—barkskin (2)(cast), beastspeak, bloodhound D, flurry of snowballs (DC 17), frigid touch
1st—cure light wounds, entangle (DC 16), goodberry, hunter's howl D(DC 16), longstrider, shillelagh, thunderstomp
0 (at will)—create water, detect magic, detect poison, stabilize
D Domain spell; Domain Wolf domain
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Statistics
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Str 26, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 20, Cha 8
Base Atk +6; CMB +14 (+20 trip); CMD 34 (36 vs. trip)
Feats Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Greater Trip, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Ki Throw, Power Attack, Shaping Focus, Vital Strike
Traits bred for war (shoanti), magical knack
Skills Acrobatics +7, Climb +12, Diplomacy +3, Fly +5, Handle Animal +3, Heal +14 (+15 circumstance to treat wounds or deadly wounds, +17 to treat common animals, but +1 to treat other creatures), Intimidate +4, Knowledge (nature) +3, Knowledge (religion) +3, Perception +23 (+31 vs. smells), Ride +7, Sense Motive +18, Spellcraft +3, Stealth +3, Survival +12 (+16 to track using scent), Swim +12
Languages Common, Druidic, Shoanti
SQ devoted guardian, face nature's might, improved trip (bonus feat), nature bond (Wolf domain), pack tactics, primal bond, primal empathy, primal size, primal summons, trackless step, wild empathy +8, wild shape (giant), woodland stride
Combat Gear lesser extend metamagic rod, potion of blade lash, potion of cure light wounds, wand of cure light wounds, wand of faerie fire (50 charges), wand of mage armor (50 charges), wand of shillelagh (50 charges), healer's kit, cloak of resistance +2, cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone, eyes of the eagle, headband of inspired wisdom +4, monk's robe
—————
Special Abilities
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Darkvision (60 feet), Devoted Guardian +0 (Ex) At 1st level, a sohei can always act in a surprise round even if he does not notice his enemies, though he remains flat-footed until he acts. In addition, a sohei gains a bonus on initiative rolls equal to 1/2 his monk level.
Pack Tactics (8/day) (Ex) Free, count as in adjacent square to flank or gain Wis bon to hit if choose own.
Primal Bond (Ex) Can affect dinosaur/megafauna animal companion with enlarge person.
Wild Shape (10 hours, 4/day) (Su) Shapeshift into a different creature one or more times per day.
Wild Shape (Alter Self: Large giant) (Moss Troll) (Su) As a standard action, take humanoid (giant) form.

The scrollstaff is legal for Pathfinder society play with access. How can it be charged by players if players are not able to craft scrolls per society rules?

A scrollstaff serves as a weapon just like an ordinary staff and can be improved via runes like any other staff. In addition, if you are capable of creating magical scrolls, you can inscribe a single scroll onto the staff’s head for the same cost as normal for Crafting the scroll. If necessary, you can embed a required material focus into the staff as part of the same Craft activity. As long as you are holding the staff, you can cast the spell from the staff’s head. Casting the written spell works just like casting from a scroll, but you can perform the necessary material component with the staff, even if you don’t have a free hand. Once you cast the inscribed spell, any material focus remains embedded in the staff until removed as an Interact action.

The staff can hold only a single scroll at a time. If you inscribe a new scroll before casting the previous spell, you replace the existing spell and remove any previous material focus as part of the Craft activity to write the new scroll.

Look at the Shield-trained trait for use with Two Weapon fighting and improved shield bash. You get the big ass sword and the big ass shield with only a -2 penalty. A dip in Ranger or slayer gets TWF as a bonus feat without the dexterity requirement.

Half orca thug rogue (unchained)
Dex>Con=Cha>Int=wis=str
Traits: fiery gaze, dominator
Feats: enforcer, dazzling display, combat reflexes, Surprise maneuvers, whip master chain
Rogue talents: weapon trick(whip), shatter defenses, fast stealth, (1 more), duel debilitation at 10th level.

Sickened, frightened, shaken, debilitated. -4 AC, saves, attacks, skills, etc.

Myrmidarch and Zen archer each require 8 levels to meet the BAB6 requirement.

Having played a Trapper Ranger/Transmuter/AA, I found the strengths to be:

Lots of skill points, enough to fill the scout role,

Nearly full BAB,

The ability to turn a normal bow into a +10 Weapon. The AA picks up a bow and it becomes a +1 Holy, energy burst longbow. Then he casts GMW on the bow. On the arrows, casts Extended dazing flame arrow, Extended admixed flaming arrow and wears deliquescent gloves to get a +3 holy, Dazing, Flaming, Frost, Corrosive, Shocking burst weapon. (>+10)

Also at AA3 you can use pyrotechnics with a single standard action.

And a protection from arrows spell combined with levitate makes a good defense.

Take the Magical Knack or Magical Lineage(flame arrow) Trait

Edit: I would use this array

Str: 15
Dex: 20
Con: 14
Int: 18
Wis: 12
Cha: 13

Use your transmuter +1 to an ability on strength and buy an adaptive bow.

Run this out of Ranger or Slayer depending on the level of magic you want/if you want a companion.

Don't do firearms unless you get dex to damage, too feat intensive and Multishot+static bonuses like the Slayer's or Ranger's is crazy.

If you're a Ranger Instant enemy is your friend and so are a few pearls of power 3rd.

First feat should be power attack
If Human also grab point blank shot
level 2 precise shot
level three rapid shot
level 5 Weapon Focus Long bow (Works for composites) or Boon companion if a ranger
Level 6 Improved Precise shot (Don't fall for the trick and pick multishot)
Level 7 Multishot

use Insain Dragoons ranged feats followed by Deadly aim then clustered shots.

FOCUS ON DEX. Weapon finesse with a agile weapon will hit more often than power attack. An elven curve blade is a good choice but I would prefer a weapon that can be used in a grapple. If grappled or swallowed, your bow is useless. Wakazashi is best followed by gladius then short sword or hand axe. Also, you can hold on to your bow when using a one-handed weapon. Wear armor spikes for AoO`s.

Consider Ranger6, Transmuter1, Arcane archerX for classes.

Kobalds with lots and lots and lots of traps.

Swarms surrounded by sewer gases. Fire or electricity AOE spells make it go BOOM!

Remember to pay attention to lighting. The denizens should not need it.

If your GM allows traits, the Helpful trait gives a +4 bonus to aid instead of +2.

For what you are doing, I suggest Combat reflexes, Dodge, Mobility, Spring attack. Get one from Rogue talent Combat trick and take Weapon trick (or trap spotter if your gm likes traps). Then take 2-4 levels shadow dancer. Spring out of the shadows, stab and hide again. Wait for them to approach for AoO's. Repeat. Consider buying a wand of darkness when you get darkvision from shadow dancer.

One archetype allowed without cost.

Expand weapon list to include appropriate newly added weapons like sword cane.

Give it a cap of human guise (800gp) and a green Speedo. Call him "Robin". The party will suddenly be more interested in your intentions than his.

The Diabolist class will have to wait until 8th level due to Lesser Planar Ally being a 4th level spell. Unless you do it with a scroll or other means.

I am curious to see where this goes as I am working on a similar character with rolled stats. Core races only. Asmodeus as he is relevant in WotW. Str 8, Dex 9, Con 17, Int 8, Wis 18, Chr 13

If your GM allows, Fiendish Vessel Tiefling racial archetype (ARG) is amazing. Heal allies and harm enemies simultaneously. D4 instead of d6 on channels though.

Conversion Channel is fun, too.

My point was, if you scout, prepare, attack, the fight goes better than when you open the door and roll initiative. I see way too many parties do the latter. PFS often gives you no choice. You also prevent bad guys from pre-buffing as well.

Kaleb the Opportunist wrote:

Bandw2 wrote:

JoeJ wrote:

Bandw2 wrote:

JoeJ wrote:

stuff

because traps follow this flow chart

1. roll perception, if succeed go to 2., if fail go to 3.

2. roll disable device, if succeed go to 4. if fail go to 3.

3. take damage/something bad happens. if you live go to 4. if you die punch the GM(lol).

4. you can continue with your adventure.

Except I've already shown that isn't the case with example trap I gave. When there is a simple trap like you describe, it takes only a few seconds to resolve, so how does that hurt your fun? And when it's as I described, where the trap has to be dealt with in the middle of combat, then if you're not playing the trap finder, you're probably fighting the statues. So again, how does that hurt your fun?

the example you gave isn't a trap by the rules but just a weird scenario... if it isn't magical or doesn't need perceptions & disable device then once again, it doesn't require a rogue or even a trap-finder at all. In fact it's not even called a trap by the rules.

In my old school approach step 3 ends with "roll initiative as guards and/or monsters come running.

Step 4 is attack guards/monsters unawares.

In the previous examples, when the fighter was sent crawling along the wall over a covered pit trap, this would happen:

GM: "As you stick your toe out to reach the edge of the pit trap, the bugbear charges out of hiding and attacks the fighter with a greataxe as he clings to the wall. Meanwhile, the goblins behind you have had time to light their Molotov cocktails. Roll initiative.

And the wand of mount: How does the hooves on stone or the screams of a dying horse not attract every creature on the level? I mean come on, its free meat!

Don't look at what your character can do but what it can do for the party.

When I play a rogue I have a crazy high dex and stealth bonus. (+35 stealth for my 11th level PFS rogue) I scout way ahead of the

...

1) No dungeon writing 101. set the guards near the traps, attack when intruders are most vulnerable.

2) yes, my wizard does that too. except my familiar is crap against guards and traps so I have it accompany the rogue so they can aid each other.

JoeJ wrote:

Bandw2 wrote:

JoeJ wrote:

stuff

because traps follow this flow chart

1. roll perception, if succeed go to 2., if fail go to 3.

2. roll disable device, if succeed go to 4. if fail go to 3.

3. take damage/something bad happens. if you live go to 4. if you die punch the GM(lol).

4. you can continue with your adventure.

Except I've already shown that isn't the case with example trap I gave. When there is a simple trap like you describe, it takes only a few seconds to resolve, so how does that hurt your fun? And when it's as I described, where the trap has to be dealt with in the middle of combat, then if you're not playing the trap finder, you're probably fighting the statues. So again, how does that hurt your fun?

the example you gave isn't a trap by the rules but just a weird scenario... if it isn't magical or doesn't need perceptions & disable device then once again, it doesn't require a rogue or even a trap-finder at all. In fact it's not even called a trap by the rules.

In my old school approach step 3 ends with "roll initiative as guards and/or monsters come running.

Step 4 is attack guards/monsters unawares.

In the previous examples, when the fighter was sent crawling along the wall over a covered pit trap, this would happen:

GM: "As you stick your toe out to reach the edge of the pit trap, the bugbear charges out of hiding and attacks the fighter with a greataxe as he clings to the wall. Meanwhile, the goblins behind you have had time to light their Molotov cocktails. Roll initiative.

And the wand of mount: How does the hooves on stone or the screams of a dying horse not attract every creature on the level? I mean come on, its free meat!

Don't look at what your character can do but what it can do for the party.

When I play a rogue I have a crazy high dex and stealth bonus. (+35 stealth for my 11th level PFS rogue) I scout way ahead of the party, continuously looking for traps, mostly for myself. When I find bad guys or traps, I report back.

Someone said earlier that this is a game of action economy. This is where the rogue comes in. Now that the rogue has identified the target and disabled any traps (or guards) that stand in the way, we apply short term buffs before the fight starts. Unlimited buff rounds before the boss fight can make all the difference. Scouting can also save casters on spells being wasted or allow an opening volley of fireballs before the fighter gets in the way.

I agree that the scout role can be filled by other classes. I did it nicely with a Trapper/Wizard/Arcane Archer. Just don't discount how valuable a role it is within the party. And it has to be done with maxed out stealth, perception and disable device on the same character.

I had a thought that might help fix some of the Rogue's to-hit problems. What if they had a class feature that increased the bonus to attack that they get from flanking and hitting flat-footed foes? A bonus that scales as their Rogue level increases so that at Rogue level 20, they're getting a +5 or +6 to bonus to hit against foes that they sneak attack.

Maybe also talents that let them sneak attack foes that normally can't be sneak attacked. Like a "go for the head" feat that lets them sneak attack undead (why Rogues can't sneak attack zombies via headshots is kind of a mystery).

Anyway, so thoughts.

Umm... undead CAN be sneak attacked. In fact one of the improvements pathfinder did was to expand the list of creatures that can be sneak attacked. The only SA immune creature types are oozes and elementals. Incorporeal creatures can be sneak attacked with ghost touch weapons. So every rogue should buy ghost salt or a wand of CLW.

At 7th level, get a Lyrakien Improved Familiar for when you fail your save.

Traveler’s Friend (Su)

The performances and company of a lyrakien ease the burden of travel. Once per day, a creature may spend a minute listening to a lyrakien’s performance— doing so removes the effects of exhaustion and fatigue from the listener.

Battlefield Control (whip) Rogue: Fleshed out version of an earlier post I was asked to expand and show level by level.

Uses a combination of reach from the whip, combat reflexes, and high dexterity to increase attacks per round all at his highest attack bonus. Usually averages more attacks per round than TWF, without the -2 to hit. (Hard to quantify) Really comes together when he gets access to Shatter Defenses at 8th level to sneak attack demoralized opponents.

Half-Orc (City Raised) Rogue (Scout, Thug) 12
Lawful Neutral Humanoid (Human, Orc); Deity: Torag
STRENGTH 11, DEXTERITY 20/24, CONSTITUTION 14/16, INTELLIGENCE 10, WISDOM 10, CHARISMA 14/16
Fort +11, Reflex +19, WILL +8, AC 29, Init +8, HP 111
CMB +9, CMD 26, Perf Combat +5

+1 Agile, Ghost touch Whip S, Disarm, Nonlethal, Reach, Trip, +18/+13, 1d3+8 (+6d6 SA, Avg dmg: 31) Up to 10 attacks per round.

Acrobatics +22, Bluff +10, Diplomacy +10, Disable Device +24, Disguise +10, Escape Artist +22, Intimidate +29(39 when using Skill mastery), Perception +20, Sleight of Hand +11, Stealth +22, Use Magic Device +21

Traits: Defensive Strategist (Torag), Armor Expert
Feats, Abilities:
1 BAB0 Enforcer(free intimidate when non-lethal damage is dealt), Frightening, SA+1d6
2 BAB1 Weapon Trick (Whip) Rogue talent, Evasion
3 BAB2 Whip Mastery, Brutal Beating (Sickened 1rnd/2lvls), SA+2d6
4 BAB3 Finesse Rogue talent, Scout’s Charge
5 BAB3 Dazzling Display (Whip), SA+3d6
6 BAB4 Offensive Defense Rogue talent
7 BAB5 Improved Whip Mastery, SA+4d6
8 BAB6 Shatter Defenses (Whip), Combat trick Rogue talent, Skirmisher
9 BAB6 Combat Reflexes (8 AoO/round), SA+5d6
10 BAB7 Entanglement of Blades Advanced Rogue talent
11 BAB8 Skill Focus: intimidate, SA+6d6
12 BAB9 Skill Mastery: Acrobatics, Intimidate, Use Magic Device
Special Abilities: Darkvision (60 feet), Orc Ferocity (1/day)

Gear: +1 Agile, Ghost touch Whip,+1 Shortbow, 50 cold iron arrows, +1 Heavy Darkwood Shield, Belt of incredible dexterity +4, Celestial armor, Circlet of persuasion , Hag's shabble, Handy haversack, Headband of alluring charisma +2, Ioun stone (clear spindle) <In: Wayfinder, Ioun stone (pink rhomboid), Rogue's kit, Smoke pellet x5 <In: Wrist sheath, spring loaded, Smoke pellet, smog , Thieves' tools, masterwork, Wand of enlarge person <In: Wrist sheath, spring loaded, Cloak of Resistance +4, Eyes of the Eagle, Ioun Stone(Dusty Rose Prism), Traveler’s Any Tool, Rogue’s Kit, Dagger, 935gp

How to use:
Before fight, (you scouted first, right) Enlarge person wand to increase reach to 15’ if large group. Gladly accept buffs from the casters you will be protecting.

On the rare occasion that your opponent goes first, they still have to get past your reach. As they charge in, use your AoO’s to make them shaken or frightened and set up for sneak attacks.

Surprise round: buff or charge, your choice

Round 1: Choose: buff yourself (while keeping the fighter’s charge lane clear), delay for the fighter, ready vs. approach, move in to attack (single opponent), or dazzling display (multiple opponents).

Round 2: Get into position where you can reach multiple opponents if you haven't already. Back to back with the fighter works exceptionally well. Simultaneously, protect the casters by shutting down movement in a 25’-35’ wide circle.

At this point, opponents should be shaken and sickened, -4 to all d20 rolls -2 damage, and unable to move even a 5’ step without drawing an AoO that deals SA damage. AC goes up +6 for an effective total of +10AC (38AC). Keep moving to force them to move. Laugh maniacally as you and your besty the fighter mop them up. Use the money palmed from the corpses to buy the fighter beer while the inquisitor and the bard recharge their dailys.

Ninja'd by Wasum, except I would go Ranger(TWF or Shield)/Knight of Ozem (from Paths of Prestige) if you don't like Paladins. In hindsight that is what I would have played.

A focused witch can be very powerful. Don't dilute it. If you are worried about your gm killing your familiar, buy a stone familiar(6000gp). Basically a back up drive for your familiar. Also, an Inevetable, Arbiter improved familiar is virtually unkillable. BTW it has been ruled that when you upgrade familiars, the old familiar passes its knowledge on to the new familiar, free of charge.

I shouldn't even share this but 2 levels of paladin on a synthesist Summoner has been proven to be ridiculous. Max Int and Chr on your Summoner and dump Str and Dex. The eidolon takes care of those. Smite overcomes all DR and all your saves will be excellent.

Pathfinder Savant learns imbue with spell ability or familiar spell feat.

Pseudodragon is one of the few familiars with a 5ft reach.

Check here under wizards for a breakdown of Familiars:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2m612?Guide-to-the-Class-Guides

Bring back some good 3.5 stuff:

Ring of Blink, 3.5 version: SA with every attack

Staggering strike: Fort save vs damage dealt by a sneak attack or be staggered.

Finesseable reach weapons (besides whip which needs 3 feats to be useful)

Companion Guard Style: Finesse a longspear

(that combo + spring attack allowed me to defeat on a titan, mano-a-mano at 15th level)

I agree with tkul on classes,Urban Ranger3, Ninja16, Monk1. Sometimes you have to house rule to make things fit though. Give him Deep Pockets or Well Prepared in a custom magic item, belt slot, tomes and manuals +4 for each stat to represent the best tutors and personal trainers money can buy, and a 30pt build, evenly spread out, to represent natural talent. Make Bardic Knowledge an advanced Ninja trick. Half-elven for night vision, longevity and +2 Intelligence. Finally, the main reason Batman whoops everyone else is that he is the only 20th level hero in Gotham. The only ones who can match that are Superman (Paladin 20, Kryptonian archetype) and Ra's al Ghul(Druid, Reincarnated 5, Ninja 15).

Kaleb the Opportunist wrote:

Battlefield control Rogue: (similar in play style to my 3.5 rogue)

Uses a combination of reach from the whip, combat reflexes, and high dex to increase attacks per round without the -2 penalty from TWF. Usually gets off more attacks per battle than TWF. (Hard to quantify)

How to use:
Before fight (you scouted first, right) Shield wand, Enlarge person wand to increase reach to 15’ if large group
Surprise round: buff or charge, your choice
Round 1: Choose: buff yourself (while keeping the fighter’s charge lane clear), delay for the fighter, move in to attack (single opponent), or use dazzling display (multiple opponents).
Round 2: Get into position where you can reach multiple opponents if you haven't already. Back to back with the fighter works exceptionally well.
At this point your opponents are shaken, sickened and unable to move even a 5’ step without drawing an AoO that deals SA damage. -2 Strength, -4 to all d20 rolls -3 damage and your AC goes up +6 for a total of +11AC. Keep moving to force them to move. Laugh maniacally as you and your besty the fighter mop them up.
On the rare occasion that your opponent goes first, they still have to get past your reach. As they charge in, use your AoO’s to make them shaken and set up for sneak attacks.

Half-Orc (City Raised) Rogue (Scout, Thug) 12
Lawful Neutral Humanoid (Human, Orc); Deity: Torag
STRENGTH 11, DEXTERITY 20/24, CONSTITUTION 14/16, INTELLIGENCE 10, WISDOM 10, CHARISMA 14/16
Fort +7, Reflex +15, WILL +4, AC 28
+1 Agile, Ghost touch Whip S, Disarm, Nonlethal, Reach, Trip, +18/+13, 1d3+8
Acrobatics +21, Bluff +10, Diplomacy +10, Disable Device +23, Disguise +10, Escape Artist +21, Intimidate +23, Perception +15, Stealth +21, Use Magic Device +21
Feats: Combat Reflexes (8 AoO/round), Dazzling Display (Whip), Enforcer, Improved Whip Mastery, Shadow Strike, Shatter Defenses (Whip), Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Whip), Whip Mastery
Traits: Defensive Strategist (Torag), Armor

...

Gray,

Note that I left some money on the table for number buffers to flesh out as you see fit.

typical combat against a melee type goes like this:
Scout
Buff: protection from evil, Shield
Sneak up or charge in the surprise round, Crack! Shaken, Sickened, -2Str, all attacks for the next 5 minutes are SA's
Round 1, win initiative 75% of the time, Crack! Crack! two SA's and Frightened 1 round, 5ft step closer.
His turn: AoO as he runs away frightened. Crack! SA.
Round 2: Advance, Crack! Frightened again. Keep chasing his pathetic butt down the street till he drops or learns his lesson.
If he manages to turn and fight, take AoO as he approaches. You can play fighter yo-yo like this all day averaging 4 attacks to his 1

A talent was suggested by our party rogue.

Agile Rogue(Ex): Prereq: Weapon Finesse or Finesse Rogue

Any weapon with which you use the Weapon Finesse feat is also treated as having the Agile Weapon enhancement.

Not too powerful for a talent that scales with level. There are several feats that duplicate a +1 weapon enhancement, Improved critical comes to mind.

This could be in a future supplement *cough* Advanced Class Guide *cough* as well.

An advanced Talent that gives 2nd level spells would be nice too. Maybe even 3rd?

A change the PTB's at Paizo could add in future supplements to improve the rogue:
Allow rogues to use talents to gain specific feats they do not have the prerequisites for. You know, like monks and rangers and fighters do already.

It could read
Improved Combat Talent: may select any Improved combat maneuver feat (such as Improved Overrun) as a bonus feat.

Battlefield control Rogue: (similar in play style to my 3.5 rogue)

Uses a combination of reach from the whip, combat reflexes, and high dex to increase attacks per round without the -2 penalty from TWF. Usually gets off more attacks per battle than TWF. (Hard to quantify)

How to use:
Before fight (you scouted first, right) Shield wand, Enlarge person wand to increase reach to 15’ if large group
Surprise round: buff or charge, your choice
Round 1: Choose: buff yourself (while keeping the fighter’s charge lane clear), delay for the fighter, move in to attack (single opponent), or use dazzling display (multiple opponents).
Round 2: Get into position where you can reach multiple opponents if you haven't already. Back to back with the fighter works exceptionally well.
At this point your opponents are shaken, sickened and unable to move even a 5’ step without drawing an AoO that deals SA damage. -2 Strength, -4 to all d20 rolls -3 damage and your AC goes up +6 for a total of +11AC. Keep moving to force them to move. Laugh maniacally as you and your besty the fighter mop them up.
On the rare occasion that your opponent goes first, they still have to get past your reach. As they charge in, use your AoO’s to make them shaken and set up for sneak attacks.

Half-Orc (City Raised) Rogue (Scout, Thug) 12
Lawful Neutral Humanoid (Human, Orc); Deity: Torag
STRENGTH 11, DEXTERITY 20/24, CONSTITUTION 14/16, INTELLIGENCE 10, WISDOM 10, CHARISMA 14/16
Fort +7, Reflex +15, WILL +4, AC 28
+1 Agile, Ghost touch Whip S, Disarm, Nonlethal, Reach, Trip, +18/+13, 1d3+8
Acrobatics +21, Bluff +10, Diplomacy +10, Disable Device +23, Disguise +10, Escape Artist +21, Intimidate +23, Perception +15, Stealth +21, Use Magic Device +21
Feats: Combat Reflexes (8 AoO/round), Dazzling Display (Whip), Enforcer, Improved Whip Mastery, Shadow Strike, Shatter Defenses (Whip), Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Whip), Whip Mastery
Traits: Defensive Strategist (Torag), Armor Expert
Special Abilities: Brutal Beating (6 rds) (Ex), Crippling Strike (Ex), Darkvision (60 feet), Entanglement of Blades (Ex), Frightening, Offensive Defense (Ex), Orc Ferocity (1/day), Scout's Charge (Ex), Skirmisher (Ex), Sneak Attack +6d6
Gear (about 60k spent): +1 Agile, Ghost touch Whip, +1 Mithral Buckler, Belt of incredible dexterity +4, Celestial armor, Circlet of persuasion , Hag's shabble, Handy haversack, Headband of alluring charisma +2 1 lb, Ioun stone (clear spindle) <In: Wayfinder, Ioun stone (pink rhomboid), Rogue's kit, Smoke pellet x5 <In: Wrist sheath, spring loaded, Smoke pellet, smog , Thieves' tools, masterwork, Wand of enlarge person <In: Wrist sheath, spring loaded, Wayfinder , Wrist sheath, spring loaded, Wrist sheath, spring loaded

Edit: the thug Frightening ability + enforcer makes frightened status easy to achieve also.

Some useful rogue items:

Robe of Needles: Can't miss first round sneak item for cheap
Deliquescent gloves: At will touch attack without burning two talents. Some debate on if this gives a touch attack, though.
Jaunt Boots: Three chances a day to change a single attack to a full round attack. Also useful for getting out of trouble.
Quick runners shirt: Also handy for getting into position or escaping. 1/day so buy extras.
Ghost salted arrows: A cheap way to sneak attack incorporials. Incorporials usually have crap for hit points and AC. So snipe away or flank and use arrow stabs.
Wand of cure light: also useful for sneak attacks on the undead.
Adamantine salted blunt arrows: for pesky golems
Gloves of reconnaissance: like ring of x-ray but way cheaper
longarm bracers: great if you have Gang up feat
Whip: So you're not proficient, if you have Weapon finesse, you have a better chance to hit with non-proficiency than you do with a longspear. Use to aid another or gang up when you can't get close.
Wand of Darkvision: Three hours/use, should last the rest of your career from when you can afford it. Still cheaper than goggles. Added bonus: use it on your allies when Drow pop up.

For the archer rogue:
Seeking Bow + Smoke arrows: fire a smoke arrow at your own square, then fire short range sneak attacks with impunity. Added bonuses: 20% miss chance, do not provoke for firing in melee, 2.5gp cheaper per use than wand of obscuring mist, takes less time than a wand, affects only 1 square so you can still see in all directions and you don't screw your allies by blocking their view. Later on, add Merciful and take the Sap Master feats. Cap it with Sniper's goggles.

Wow this thread got long! I am half way through reading it (took a break for holidays). I think it shows that the rogue's position in the party is important, no matter who fills it.

The rogues job as I see it in the dungeon is stealth ahead, clear traps and when enemies are found, report back to the party. The party can then apply appropriate short term buffs without wasting important in-combat actions. The rogue then stealths back to get into position and waits for the party to trigger the encounter.

Traps need to be interesting. If trapfinding is not important in an adventure, it is the fault of the writer or GM. I can usually tell if an adventure writer plays a rogue by the detail in the traps. When a rogue finds a trap, describe it. It makes game play more fun and increases the likelihood the party will bypass it to use later against a bad guy. Traps should be made to detain or kill intruders or give the denizens a combat advantage. Zap traps just use up wand charges. Remember judges: ALL TRAPS MAKE NOISE! When a trap goes off, the denizens of the surrounding rooms come running. Roll initiative when the trap goes off, if only to make players cinch up.

Also there is ALWAYS a chance to find a trap. Some writers put the entire trap mechanism on the other side of the door and say it cannot be detected. Foul! I had a judge in 3.5 (who wanted me to fail) ask me "how are you searching for traps?" I answered "like a high level rogue with max ranks, high intelligence, and racial bonuses would." I don't recall him asking the wizard the words for a fireball spell.

Last bit of Rogue love: Rogues have the highest percentage of faction mission completions at PFS tables.

Smoke pellet, smog

Source Dungeoneer's Handbook

The smoke from a smog pellet is oily, and creatures that are hit by a smog pellet or pass through the smoke are covered in thick residue. This residue makes invisible creatures visible for 1d4 rounds.

Price 40 gp; Weight —

If you are willing to burn two feats, IUS and Feral Strike, and you have a willing, semi-intelligent creature then yes. The key here is you must take Feral Strike to translate the desired feat into something an animal can do. Expensive but doable.

Kaleb the Opportunist wrote:

That would require two feats, not 1 mundane weapon.

No it wouldn't. Maybe it should, but by RAW it doesn't.

A gunslinger can fire both barrels of a double-barreled weapon as a single action long before he qualifies for iterative attacks. If he has two-weapon fighting he can fire both barrels of two double-barreled pistols in a round, again before he has any iterative attacks.

True

lol

Edit: A real world bow is 10 times faster than a muzzle loader. Less damage and harder to learn though.

That would require two feats, not 1 mundane weapon.

Perhaps a better way of explaining my stance. We've agrued over the meaning of the following sentence.

"If both barrels are shot at once, they must both target the same creature or object, and the pistol becomes wildly inaccurate, imparting a –4 penalty on each shot."

In play this works out like this. Gunslinger with 16BAB firing a single double barreled pistol wants to maximize damage but is unwilling to sacrifice his chances to hit. His normal attack sequence is:
+16/+11/+6/+1
He decides to give it both barrels on the first and second attack only so instead his attacks are:
+12/+7/+6/+1
So he takes a -4 on each shot that uses both barrels but not on the remaining attacks.

I hope this clears things up.

Thus the IMHO opening.

You would still apply vital strike, IVS, GVS to 1 bullet.

IMHO they never should have given free action reloads. I see gunslinger as a vital strike style class.

Greater Invisibility + nondetection could do it but the person with true seeing gets a will save. How a Cleric gets those spells, I have no idea.

What if a Familiar is using it on his wizard? does it still count as sharing spells?

That made me realize that in the hands of a single weapon gunslinger, by your reckoning,

1 Double barreled pistol(1750gp) = 2 single barreled pistols(2000gp) + 1 glove of storing(10,000) + 1 weapon cord(1sp) + 1 Two Weapon Fighting feat + 1 Improved Two Weapon Fighting feat + 1 Greater Two Feapon Fighting feat (+ 1 Superior Two Weapon Fighting if such a feat existed)

And no one sees a problem with that?

Azaelas Fayth
You hit the nail on the head. It is exactly like vital strike.
(btw I was joking about the dislocated shoulder. Sheesh, its a game, have fun)

Moving on.

Another question, When you use two pistols, what is the penalty? I cannot find the size catagory for the pistol. I assume that since it strikes like a club in melee it is a one handed weapon. That is -4 for two weapons, -2 rapid shot, -4 two barrels for a -10.

I still have not seen any kind of clear answer to the question "Do two barrels give you an extra attack?" In the absense of a clear answer, should a player gain the maximum possible benefit or the minimum?

Assume you played a APL9 PFS module and ran into an 11th level gunslinger with two double barreled pistols, boots of speed, glove of storing, dueling pistol and dust of disappearance. He has a +18 initiative and used the dust in the surprise round. On his turn, he tears into the party for 300+ points of damage. Because he is invisible, the highest touch AC is 12-13. Rogue with Uncanny dodge dies first. TPK in round 2. When an NPC does it, is it still balanced? How many partys finish the module. How many complaints does Paizo recieve?

Give me an arguement better than "this is what I think, prove me wrong." Until then, minimal benefit should be given.

Covent,
No RAW, just real world experience. Having been an avid hunter when I was younger, I know guns. When you attack a pheasent, you have a fraction of a second to aquire target, aim and pull the trigger. If you use both barrels of a double barreled shotgun, you still only aim and shoot once. (take 1d8 non leathal damage and save vs dislocated shoulder)

PRD wrote:
If both barrels are shot at once, they must both target the same creature or object,

This differentiates DBP's from things like scorching ray which can be two attacks from 1 action.

You still get 20-90% increase in damage per hit. Nothing to sniff at.

John,
It really adds up. My home game archer does 1d8+3d6+16 per attack for an average of about 130/round at 15th level. If I manyshotted every attack, I would double that.

Covent,
With all due respect, a double barrel firearm doubles the amount of ammunition you put in the air, not the number of attacks you get in a round. There is a difference.

Ssalarn,
I read SKR's entire post, it says nothing about the order in which you take your attacks only what attacks are available to you.

point 2

In pathfinder we have 5 types of actions:
free
swift
move
standard
full round
attack

CRB187 "If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Chapter 3), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you must use a full-round action to get your additional
attacks."

The number of attack actions you get is determined by your BAB, your feats, and any magical affects you have on you.

Firing two bullets simultaneously is one action therefore it is one attack.

1 action = 1 attack

1 die roll at -4 with +1 die damage.

We had this arguement back in Living Arcanis when they introduced double barreled muskets. And yes, the barrels had to be magicked independently. The master thrower in 3.0 had the same arguement because he could throw two pieces of ammunition at once.

Maybe we need to calrify the definitions to expidite the arguement. (dictionary.com)

shot
1 [shot] Show IPA noun, plural shots or for 6, 8, shot; verb, shot·ted, shot·ting. noun
1. a discharge of a firearm, bow, etc.
2. the range of or the distance traveled by a missile in its flight.
3. an aimed discharge of a missile.
4. an attempt to hit a target with a missile.
5. an act or instance of shooting a firearm, bow, etc.

at·tack
[uh-tak] Show IPA
verb (used with object)
1. to set upon in a forceful, violent, hostile, or aggressive way, with or without a weapon; begin fighting with: He attacked him with his bare hands.
2. to begin hostilities against; start an offensive against: to attack the enemy.
3.to blame or abuse violently or bitterly.
4. to direct unfavorable criticism against; criticize severely; argue with strongly: He attacked his opponent's statement.
5. to try to destroy, especially with verbal abuse: to attack the mayor's reputation.

Read what SKR wrote again or I will quote his post for you:

"Ssalarn wrote:
Sean, to clarify, Are you saying that an attack sequence of 11M/11Off/6M/6Off/1M is actually valid?
There's nothing in the rules that says "you have to take all your main hand attacks, then all your offhand attacks," so yes, that's a valid attack sequence."

In fact, where in the rules do you find something that counters CRBpg187 where it states:
"If you get multiple attacks because your base attack
bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in
order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two
weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you
are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part
of the weapon first."

So, Doc from my previous post has the following sequence (BAB only, ignoring reload issues)
+16,+16,+16,+16 (left, rapid, haste, right - in any order)
followed by
+11,+11 (right, left or left, right)
then
+6,+6 (left, right or right, left)
and finally
+1 (either hand)

As SKR and the core rulebook said attacks go from high to low. If you disagree, show the citation, don't just say "RAW".

Scorching ray:
Scorching ray states "Each ray requires a ranged touch attack to hit and deals 4d6 points of fire damage. The rays may be fired at the same or different targets, but all rays must be aimed at targets within 30 feet of each other and fired simultaneously.
Double barrel pistols "If both barrels are shot at once, they must both target the same creature or object"
Since Scorching rays can be fired at seperate targets and double barreled pistols cannot, the two are not comparable.

Manyshot:
A comparison has been drawn between the DBP and Manyshot. Although manyshot says bows specifically I would allow a player at my table to apply the feat to double barreled guns. However, owning a double barreled gun does not give you the feat. Nor does it allow you to use the feat more than once per round.

I reiterate, firing both barrels simultaneously adds 1 die damage.

MacGurcules,
"If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part of the weapon first."

"Pistol, Double-Barreled: This pistol has two parallel barrels; each barrel can be fired independently as a separate action, or both can be shot at once with the same action. If both barrels are shot at once, they must both target the same creature or object, and the pistol becomes wildly inaccurate, imparting a –4 penalty on each shot."

You only get as many actions as feats and magic give you. In this case, 4 attacks for a high BAB, 3 for TWF feat tree, 1 for Rapid shot and 1 for Haste effects. Whether you pull 1 trigger or 2, you are still using 1 attack action.

If I have a Druidx/Cavalier4(huntmaster) with the feats animal bond and Horselord Do I have two annimals? Each at druid level equal to my character level? And yes, I will throw in Eldrich heritage to get a familiar to really annoy my GM. (non PFS)

Ravingdork, You're right, I missed that, stopped reading too soon.
However, I digressed from my original point which is that extra barrels do not give extra attacks. At best you can fire as many shots as you could throwing shuriken with TWF tree and rapid shot. Also double barreled guns are treated as a double weapon for masterwork and magic upgrades. (600gp for masterwork, 4000 for +1/+1) Unless there is something that says different.