More art! I was really disappointed with the lack of art. There could’ve been at least another 40 pages to even the book out at 200. I only bought the PDF because I didn’t think the price for the hard copy was worth it.
I'm just wondering what is stopping a vesk from attacking like a human, and benefiting from Raw Lethality. You are focusing on the 1d8 bleed instead of looking at Unarmed Mauler which does the same thing and more. Take Unarmed Mauler and rip someone's arm off.
I can't find the website right now but here is a google doc of a homebrew Umbral Reaver made. LINK - MECHFINDER. The website had a lot of photos. It's pretty solid. The only problem is with how cool Mechs are it's incredibly difficult to use them in a campaign. Your game would basically have to be built around them and I just don't see a lot of story telling you could do with them. I am a huge giant robo fan but even with all the animes and shows I have watched I can't come up with much to warrant adding them to my game. It's the reason why I haven't tested out the rules and last time I asked Umbral Reaver he hadn't gotten any feedback himself. Story plots: Waring nations/planets? Blue Gender type monsters? Ummm...
I'm sorry I didn't give clearer directions which made you write more. Let's get away from ability upgrades. Let's even throw the abilities out because with point buying they are useless. Plus if I wanted to nerf my class to make a point I could. Let's just look at the core class and what bonuses they have. You mentioned having an exo-mechanic and hacker-operative. So looking below, am I missing something? These insight bonuses don't stack. At level 10
Hacker-Operative
Those insight bonuses don't stack. So depending on how a person builds each will mean they are pretty neck and neck. The thing that makes a class better or worst at something is their class abilities. Compare the operatives computer abilities vs the mechanics. The mechanic blows the operative out of the water with all the crazy Sh*t they can do. I mean Wireless Hack!?
Redundant though. We've played enough to get a grasp of the system and what our characters can do, however beyond myself and the GM I can't vouch for everyone having read the CRB and class options cover to cover. Our character creation session (which was our final Pathfinder session, early-May) we had general ideas of what we wanted to do. I had had an Exocortex mechanic made up as a test from my own time, but someone else wanted to play an Exocortex mechanic (same race and background option too. It was apparently a fun character idea) so I backed down and opted to play an Envoy. Since we needed a captain and I'm known for playing high-difficulty concept characters. I thought I did too. When this game first came out there was a flood of these threads. I was one of the people complaining about the Operative as well. So I know where you are coming from. But Starfinder is very misleading for anyone coming from Pathfinder because you think the rules are the same so you assume on things and get something wrong because the slight change messes with all the numbers of a character. Now I don't want to say your concerns aren't valid because as soon as I do that you'll tune out. But what I will say is don't jump to conclusions and start comparing classes. I would like to point out that your Operative was kind of messed up to pick Hacker when you already had a mechanic. Whateves at this point. Having overlap is fine but they went right for his role. - Operative: See above. It was given the tools it had so that it could specialize without sacrificing anything. I dunno whether the other classes weren't considered or there wasn't enough playtesting, but you can have an entire party of Operatives and their feat choices can literally make a diverse party. Skill Synergy for Diplomacy, congrats you're an Envoy. Make a Dex + Str build with Heavy Armor Proficiency and you're a melee Soldier. Minor Psychic Power or Technomantic Dabbler and you're a Technomancer. Their downside is supposed to be limiting Trick Attack to Small Arms and Operative weapons, however you can play the class never making a trick attack and still have enough other options within the class to feel like a well rounded and over-powerful character. -You could say the same for the soldier. They did this on purpose. You are no longer locked in a certain role. -That's not how Envoys work-That's not how Technomancers work -I highly doubt you will ever get to level 19 so to bring up the 10d8 doesn't really matter. I have been playing tabletop games on and off for 14 years and have never got that high. So let's focus on an actual level. How about lvl10? Operative Trick attack Average damage
Solarian Solar Weapon Average damage
Now we can debate 3 points of damage for a single hit but if that Solar Weapon hits you twice you're toast. I also didn't add in the Solarians Str bonus. This gap only increases because the Solarian hits really hard for only using a single handed weapon. Again, I did the same thing and went heavily on the OP side and I turned my opinion around when I did more reading and lots of number crunching. 1. The Skill Focus feats are insight bonues and they do not stack with the operatives edge bonus because that, too, is an insight bonus. When the operative his level 6 (er..7?) and it's edge is now +3, those feat skill bonuses become obsolete. That's mitigated by the operator class skill that lets them take 10 at any time on skill focus skills however. This is a big one people get wrong.
Could you make this barbarian with an archtype instead of making an entire new class? When I think barbarian it mostly revolves around the rage mechanic.
Whats even better is that you don't need those rules at all because in the alien archive it gives basic monster stats which lets you convert a monster in like 5-10mins. But whateves.
This is the exact reason why I do not support anything on kickstarter. There are more horror stories and then good ones. Even reports of people taking the money they received and using it for other projects. Buyer beware. Especially at the $100 price tag they had.
I would like to delete all my comments because I was completely wrong about what I wrote. I just want to point out I had no idea what I was talking about. Operative does get a lot of skills compared to other classes but that is fine because they are skill monkeys. After the first few levels they level out and are pretty balanced. I am man enough to admit I can be wrong.
What you just said is the equivalent of saying, “Rogues and bards got screwed in pathfinder because they don’t have the same attack bonus as a barbarian.” Makes me think that you haven’t read the book enough. Gameplay is more than just a couple numbers. There are multiple variables that come into play when playing this game.
Does anyone else find the irony that the OP said I already hear the trolls and flamers getting ready to let loose, but hear me out first.But then kind of became hostile when people suggested Dragonkin. That is NOT the direction I want to take this. I laid out what I'm looking at, and want suggestions in regard to what I came up with. I am doing something NEW, not trying to find something someone already did. The reason why people said Dragonkin is because what you wrote is not balanced. There are a lot of differing opinions on the threads but you won’t find a lot of people actively trying to break the game. Summoning Great Dragons for multiple rounds at level 4 is game breaking.
Discuss. Hasn't this been discussed on numerous threads already? Do we really need to start another Solarian debate thread? And the list continues..
I was contemplating pathfinder melee weapons to round out the pathetic selection of weirdly low damage low level weapons, and as stuff that space goblins could use / have looted off them, but more interested in creating and converting magic items honestly. I like the back handed comment. So are we talking about like quarter staffs? Like against heavy armor? The math is pretty solid for the levels plus there are weapon fusions. But here you go buddy Weapon Generator. This thing scales the weapons for you.
I truly think the ammunition system especially the battery system that Paizo set up in Starfinder is a work of art. It is incredibly simple and easy to use. It is really just long division. You can mix and match the batteries just as long as it "fits". It's perfect.
It sounds like you guys skimmed the book and said, "Nope! This is too different from what I have played for years so not going to try." and then quit. What makes me believe this? Well the points you bring up seem like you haven't fully looked through the game and asked why they have changed certain things. After ten years of creating content and listening to players they changed a lot to streamline the player experience. I am not going to go through your post and give responses to each point because it doesn't matter. Your group has written off the game already. But I will touch on a key point that leads me to the assumption that your group didn’t really put a lot into the game. 1.) Customization: ...Starting off in vanilla PF, there are 11 classes to choose from, each with its own unique abilities. In SF, there are 7 classes. This trend continued throughout SF, with a shorter spell list, a replacement of archetypes with "themes" that offer little in the way of actual use and are more or less simple flavor. My group grew frustrated with the simple lack of choices to pick from. Classes: So it's a little more complex then, “Pathfinder has more stuff.” Pathfinder is already based off a system which D&D 3.5. It’s easy to have 11 classes when you build off an already existing system. In Pathfinder you pick a class and you play that class. Example: A Barbarian probably isn’t going to be the face of the group. The classes in pathfinder are very limited. You pick a role on the picture or weapon alone. You want to be an archer? Well you are a Ranger then. You want to be a thief? Then you're a rogue. While in Starfinder you have a shell and you build yourself into a role you want to play. If your party read fully into the classes you would notice there isn’t just 7 classes. Example: A drone mechanic plays very different than an exocortex mechanic. The Soldier has 7 very different roles it can pick from. Are you going to play a Blitz Melee soldier (Genji Overwatch) or a Jetpack Sharpshooting bounty hunter(Bobafett). You could even make a Druid with a Xenoseeker Mystic. Spells: Yes, there is a shorter spell list. But again, this was on purpose. Technology and space travel has changed everything. Greatest example is, are you going to spend 10 years in wizard school to learn the light spell or are you just going to buy a flashlight? Are you going to keep a spell slot for haste or are you just going to modify your body with a haste circuit? You say lack of choices but I say lack of imagination and understanding of a new game system. If you want to stick with pathfinder that’s fine. Pathfinder is a great game(#Rangers4Life)! But don’t compare different games when you haven’t spent the time to fully understand both.
Unless I am completely missing something, Dragonborn are not a Pathfinder player race Dragonkin are just as good. Large Dragon humanoid that can fly and has a breath attack. *points up* This. Just because Aasimar and Tieflings exist in the setting, doesn't mean they must be allowable PC race choices. I think the debate was how to convert. It's pretty clear most people in the thread want those races. We could just do this Fiendish Resistance: Tieflings have cold resistance 2, electricity resistance 2, and fire resistance 2.I mean isn’t only 1 additional point of damage and after level 2 it would basically do nothing. If the resistances is such a big problem they could just get a +2 EAC and end it there.
Huh, I actually really love Wayne Reynolds style. I hope they add more his stuff in the future.
More mid tier monsters and aliens. Most the book is playable races or high tier aliens in my opinion.
Ive only played one game and i dont have a rulebook just one I borrowed for a short time. I can check the rules online, Thank you Paizo, but actually understanding how to get the best out of a character without guides is a problem. This is your problem right here. You only played once and borrowed a book. Most humans hate change. If you played other dnd/paizo games this book changes a lot and a lot of the changes don't immediately show their benefits. 1) Already talked about by Ventnor. 2) The equipment chapter has a lot of content in it. Most of the debates on the board stem from people skimming this section. 3) They aren't down graded. Removing lvl 7-9 spells was one of the best things they changed. You don't need 7, 8, 9th lvl spells when you can do it in 6. Over a decade of added books and expansions there is so much fluff and convoluted rules that it makes the game not easy for new comers. Even someone like myself (over 10 years experience in tabletops) find reading through all the rules a chore. Im worried that Starfinder is going to do something negative by trying to over-correct on the perceived flaws of earlier game versions. I dont want guns to be weak or spells to be useless because of overs-specialized role. If its not broke down fix it. This is why they change everything for Starfinder. They have corrected those issues because they were in Pathfinder. In Pathfinder late game always went to spell casters. Starfinder you are viable late game if you don't use spells because you have lvl 20 guns or melee weapons. You need to spend more time with the book. I know its a waiting game for new rulebooks to add new things like Sniper Rifles that out-DPR rifles. This isn't call of duty. Characters shouldn't be running around 360 no scoping NPCs. If you want a sniper rifle that does that then make one. Just like all corebooks they are guidelines not commandments.
This is not true at all. Without looking at ability scores or any other outside factor look at their skills and base bonus. Operative
Mechanic
Now which number is higher? 86 or 166? Now yes, the mechanic can get some abilities that boost his hacking abilities and remote hack but the operative can also boost their hacking skills too. I have played some sessions and am now taking over as DM and I think I am going to drop the operatives skill to 6 and bonus the mechanic to 6. No reason why an Int based class only has 4 skills per level. Technomancer I think is fine since it gets spells.
I scratch my head at threads like these. Obviously some people like to "Mock" and then other people play into it. "Oh no I need the last word." and extend the life of these threads for days/weeks. Owen came out after weeks of debate and said yes. They can. Provide the link and leave it alone. Side note: I would say you could add a fusion to bionic limbs.
I believe music really helps set the mode and gets players invested in a particular scene. Soundtracks I continuous refer back to for sci-fi settings like Shadowrun/Starfinder are songs made by the band Infected Mushroom. Songs like: Cities of the future, Becoming Insane, Bust a move, Saeed, Psycho and really the list goes on. They start slow but the build up conveys tension. Side Note: Want some really Good bar/club scenes music use Parov Stelar. Songs like Booty Swing, Catgroove, and Clap Your Hands. These are electro swing songs and every time I put it on someone asks what it is. Then they say it reminds them of any bar scene in the StarWars movies.
Well if your DM doesn't allow you to find a Solarian Crystal on Absalom station that kind of sucks.
Did you do the math for how high Solarian damage is with powers? That makes it stronger than a long sword. Also seems strange to let a person walk into a night club or a high rise building with a pike. If I was the GM it would have a guard say, "Sir that isn't a walking stick. You aren't coming in here with that." No only does a Solarian do more damage for less with its power activated you can also go anywhere if. "Captured? Who cares, I carry the power of the sun with me."
Disclaimer: I didn't read all the comments so this might have already been addressed. My main question is, why would you want a Phase Shield if you are using a ranger weapon? You wouldn't be able to use a longarm because your using that shield. Also solar Armor at max gives a +20 resistance against cold or fire. Solar Armor Solarian is pretty viable in my opinion.
Just like my change to Solarian (solar weapon and armor operating off Cha instead of Str/Dex), I'll simply be adding improved unarmed combat as an operative-adjective weapon. No reason to make it more complicated than that, and it should have been done from the beginning (in my opinion). So I saw threads about this and I understand why you would want to but it never sold me on it. For solar armor, "don't need to dodge these bullets! I am just so sexy you can't hit me." For weapon, "Take that bad man. Check out my cheek structure while your at it."All while you can't lift your backpack.
The biggest issue is you did not compare your buffs against other items at the same level which breaks the class and makes playing other classes not worth it.
At lvl 5 your solar weapon is 3d6? You will be dishing out an average 14 every hit. While your fellow players won't be doing more than that at the same lvl. Look at the equipment lvls for melee weapons. It goes from 2-7 and most jump to a 1d8 or 1d10. You gave the solar weapon 3d6. Your fellow players will be dishing out an average of 4 damage. That isn't fun to play with. Who wants to be useless in combat compared to the Solarian?
Why no save? Why a move action? So you can immediately kill whatever you throw forward?Oh and plus attacks of opportunity so you can hit the enemy more times? But the list goes on and the main question is why? Why does every ounce of this class need a buff? Why are you immediately attuned? Battle starts and you cook anything that started a fight with you. Oh and you are also burning. Your team says, "Great job! We don't know why we even have guns..."
But if you you look up at the title of the thread, that's not really the point of this thread... And if anyone had been reading the forums the past couple of days you've made your opinion clear, possibly painfully so.Seems like you want to play a soldier. Id much rather have an actual solarianI could have both: soldier (blitz) 1/solarian 19, or soldier (blitz) 3/solarian 17. When everyone on a board knows you to be only one thing. "We get it already. Now stop typing and go play."
I love when people make new threads about things that are already being discussed on other threads. double post. It's awesome. http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uii8?Feats-that-should-not-be-feats If you don't like something don't use it.
Can you please stop flooding the message boards with your "Solarian is awful, Soldier blitz is the only way to play" posts. It's really annoying to see multiple threads about this. If you want to power play then fine, but these posts are redundant. You are missing the point of the table top genre. There are multiple ways to play.
ultrathin curve blade is a two handed weapon. A little unfair to compare that but you forgot something... Where is the bonus for being in Photon Mode? That plus 2 makes it beat out the weapons you just pointed out. Some of those numbers are a little off. I get it though, You haven't played yet but you really think it should be changed.
1. Changed feature - Solar Manifestation: You get BOTH the armor and the weapon. Can be manifested simultaneously. Agree - It's only an additional +1AC and I just don't see it scaling well. 2. Changed feature - Solar Weapon: Changed scaling. Now grants an additional dice at 4th level and every 3 levels thereafter. At 6th level and every 5 levels thereafter, dice increases by 1 size. So you end up with 7d12 rather than 12d6. Don't Agree - Comparing it to the other weapons it seems fine. Plus looking at the powers you get I can see why the Solar Weapon is limited. Switching your 3 for something I thought about. I am not a fan of the Solarians Stellar mode. I think they were headed in the right direction but I feel it is limited when looking at other classes *Cough* Operative *Cough*. 3. Changed feature - Stellar Mode You can use Revelations out of combat. Jedi's don't have to be in combat to use the force. Monks did not need to be in combat to be Monk like. With some of the Solarian powers being geared towards utility I am not sure why they went this route. I would love to get their perspective on it though. Here is how I see it. You spend one minute focusing and becoming attuned you can revelations. Flare, Stealth Warp, and Astrologic Sense are perfect examples of skills you would want to use out of combat. 4. Changed feature - Number of Revelations
At level 16 you also gain both
The Solarion needs an option to focus on either Graviton or Photon, instead of having to balance the 2 No Offense, but you are missing what the Solarian is about. Focusing on one limits the class so much. Deciding to choke a mage in battle to stop him/her from casting a spell or deciding to set the soldier on fire is the whole point. Options instead of being limited but one.
I wish I could post some of it. You guys will see. This is how I picture playing will be. I am in love. Paizo, You did well.
To make the whole ordeal even more humiliating, unless you spend a move action to aim, Sniper Rifles typically have lower range than Longarms. That's how sniper rifles should work. This isn't Call of Duty. "360 no scope!" I used to have the same thought process that everything is underpowered because I couldn't see how it would be implemented. This thread is making want the book more.
I did not miss the irony on this one. For all the negativity you have put out about this game before its release, you get to read the game before people who are desperate to get their hands on it. Bravo Universe... Bravo.
Here is the crux of my concern: I think Paizo is being too hesitant when it comes to their support schedule for Starfinder. Having to wait almost 2 months for the Bestiary\Alien archive AND the first adventure path is bad enough, but then new stuff only coming out on a bimonthly schedule makes it that much worse. It makes it so we cant even start when the main book comes out. We have to just sit around for another 6 weeks waiting to start with our engines idling. FRUSTRATING. Either they do it this way or they push the game back until more things are out. How many people do you think are writing for the Starfinder side?
Yes, They are seeing the out pour now. But it takes time to write books and balance them out. I personally wouldn't want a rushed product.
Once you read a 500+ page book and fully understand the rules that should give you enough to play around with until the next one comes out. Plus they said there will be a guide to convert monsters over. I mean what could you possibility need in 3 separate books all at once?
You shouldn't be using the books as a crutch. I am sure you will think of some great ideas and you will have plenty to play with.
No matter which we do first, someone will be unhappy. We're doing out best to get them in the same week, which doesn't seem like an unreasonable amount of time to wait for your preferred info to come out if you want to read it in a different order than we release it. I am one of the ones that check the blog everyday for new content and even though I want the core book in my hands now I can wait. I appreciated these previews and they are making me want it more and more.
Hey all, I tried to find info on the LaShunta in Starfinder but I can't. Found a thread where the devs said it will probably be different from the one in Pathfinder. Wondering if anyone has seen info or are we still waiting on the preview?
That's the key phrase
Again, you don't know. "Typically" is not definite. They have changed a lot of things and maybe saving throws are one thing that got change. Even if they didn't you typically get bonuses off certain party members. ::COUGH:: Envoy ::COUGH:: Maybe instead of hijacking another thread you let this one go. I think you have made your point.
Have you been reading Saga?
26. Importing the shifter race that acts like the predator alien. Always up for a hunt. 27. A very charismatic Captain that is incredibility stupid. Think Zapp Brannigan.
I look forward to you all reading the technomancer preview...Hype intensifies. They are probably saving the best for last. I am definitely going to be the player that shouts "Hack the Planet" every session. I have also been playing the necromancer in diablo and I am loving the corpse explosion. If you can make someone's weapon or armor explode that would be awesome.
From reading all the interviews I see no use for a dip in a mystic. You bring a magic middle to a fight and I'll bring a laser rifle. It's basically how I see modern day religion and technology. I have a phone that has endless knowledge yet I am supposed to go believe in a man in the sky.
Again, what is your deal with this game? You seem really upset about a piece of news that was released and from everything I have read I am super excited. You do know that these rules are just guidelines? You can really play how you want. 1. If you dislike everything then really you are just trolling the boards complaining. Most of the people of here are super excited which is awesome to read their comments but you are spewing the hate. 2. Are you talking about the cardiac accelerator? Dude! It's a game with options. If the game didn't have items and multiple different routes and ways you could build your character all the characters would be built the same. They specifically said in interviews that they didn't want the end all be all build. "if you don't get the 'jetpack of doom' your character is going to suck." That is boring and unimaginative to have must have items.3. Sell your stupid ship. It's worth 1,000,000 bug fingers. There you go. Think outside the box a little. "The devs didn't put inside the core book how to sell my ship so I guess I can't." WoW 4. The core book isn't out yet. Unless you have an early copy you are trolling the boards for a game you dislike. *Thumbs up* I mean you could just not play it. Reading that last paragraph explains how you see these games. You don't play them to have fun.
Again, what is your deal with this game? You seem really upset about a piece of news that was released and from everything I have read I am super excited. You do know that these rules are just guidelines? You can really play how you want.
I find these types of comments kind of unhelpful. You are on the boards for the game and add little to the conversation other than, "I don't like it and probably won't play when it comes out." Sounds like you checked out already. Or you can come to the conversation and say, "I wish the game did this... Instead of that" Or "I heard/read about this feature and not a fan of it." The book isn't even out yet. They have released very little in actual content. What could you possibility be against? I am dying for more information. |
