I'm well aware I may be flamed for this post, but I'm going to post this anyway. I miss the playtests with Dev. interactions. It has become less with more recent playtests and while I get it, they want unbiased and raw feedback, the lack of any dev. interaction on this playtest has been deafeningly silent. I miss the playtests where a dev. would occasionally pop into the forums and make a clarification on a poorly written feature or feat, or an acknowledgement of an unintended interaction, a question to induce conversation, or even a "thank you" and quick comment about some feedback.
All of these things made the playtests feel interactive and important to Paizo. The playtest going on now, with lack of any seeming interest by the dev. team just seems bland, even though it is with some extremely exciting classes and mechanics. I don't know, I just miss playtests like we had with the Summoner/Magus where it was obvious that the Paizo team was following it with great attention and fervor. Where it was clear they were proud of their creation and genuinely wanted to hear the feedback from the playtesters.
All that said, I'm sure they are taking all of our feedback and will do great things, I just can't shake how this one feels different is all. Heck, we are a month in and they still haven't even said boo on what makes it an "Impossible" playtest, not even teasingly.
I ran a short scenario to playtest the Necromancer as a few of my players were really interested in how the class played. We played a moderate and a severe encounter.
Party Composition:
*Necromancer - Bone Shaper
Bone Spear
Bone Speaker
Bony Barrage
*Necromancer - Flesh Magician
Dead Weight
Necrotic Bomb
Reach of the Dead
*Gunslinger - Sniper
Hit the Dirt
Risky Reload
Running Reload
+1 Striking Arquebus
Out-of-Combat Healer with Medicine
Our nefarious band of fortune seekers have heard of a cave where a horde of precious gemstones could bring them a fortune, so of course they decide to find the danger and ignore the warnings of certain death to obtain it. Besides, two members of the party are intimate "friends" with death itself, so they fear not!
Moderate Encounter:
* Two Taldan Cave Squirrels
While the Sniper successfully avoids notice, the rest of the party aren't exactly quiet and so shortly after entering the cave one cave squirrel sees them and uses their Defensive Scream to alert his mate who was burrowing for more gemstones to add to their collection.
Round 1
Squirrel 1 (S1) spits at the Kineticist (who is closest) and hits dealing 14 damage (Kin makes his Fort Save). S1 uses 2 actions to burrow and look for more gems (it only had one)
Gunslinger (Gun) has no targets in site, but saw the squirrel burrow, so readies an action to attack if an enemy resurfaces
Squirrel 2 (S2) pops out of the ground and takes a devastating critical attack from the gunslinger for 34 damage. It then attacks the Flesh Necromancer (Fleshy) and hits. It uses its last action to successfully grab him.
Fleshy succeeds at his acrobatics check to escape, moves away, then uses Create Thrall. The attack misses by 3 (due to the MAP).
Kin uses Lava Leap to get to S2 who succeeds her Ref. save and takes 4 damage. He ended his leap so as not to hit the thrall and was 10 feet away from the S2. He then renews his aura and throws a blast that misses the S2.
Bone Necromancer (Bony) creates a thrall and hits for 8 damage. He then goes to use Bone Spear. However I remind the player it only has a 10ft range, so he decides to get closer and moves within range. Since he doesn't have the actions for bone spear now, he decides to intimidate the squirrel (he has intimidating glare) and succeeds.
Round 2
S1 resurfaces and spits at Fleshy dealing 12 damage (Fleshy succeeds his fortitude save). It spits again and hits (because Fleshy is off-guard) for another 11 damage (he again saves his fortitude).
Gun reloads and hides, shoots at S2 for 5 damage, then running reloads to get further away.
S2 claws Fleshy for a crit and 18 damage. It tries to maintain the grab and fails and then does a Screaming Force for damage in a 30 foot emanation (that doesn't hurt squirrel friends). This is basic save for 11 damage. Fleshy succeeds, Bony Fails, Kin Succeeds, and both thralls pop.
Fleshy wants to hurt the squirrel, but also has to be warry of friendly fire. So he creates a thrall 10 feet from the squirrel, which unfortunately can't reach to attack. He then blows it up with Necrotic Bomb. The S2 fails its save and takes 22 damage. Unfortunately this took all his actions (and a focus point) and so he can't move away from S2.
Kin moves into flanking with Fleshy and does a 2 action melee blast that hits (because S2 is off-guard) dealing 19 damage.
Bony is annoyed his thrall is gone, but really wants to get Bone Spear off so creates another one (but he can't flank due to positioning of Kin and Fleshy). The thrall hits for 10 damage which is enough to kill S2. So, Bony moves close to S1 and creates another thrall, which misses its attack.
Round 3
S1 is heartbroken that his mate was killed, so does a Screaming Force. Everybody makes their saves and take 6 damage, which also pops the thrall next to it. It then moves to Bony and misses with its bite attack.
Gun shoots for another big crit doing 45 damage! He then hides/reloads and shoots again (almost critting again, but was 1 off) for 11 damage.
Fleshy creates a thrall next to S1 and hits with the attack for 4 damage. He then blows it up for 18 damage (S1 failed its save).
Kin lava leaps for 13 damage (S1 makes his save so only takes 6). He then renews his aura and makes a melee blast that misses
Bony really wants to use Bone Spear, but realizes that if he creates the thrall in a flanking position he would hit his ally. So he creates the thrall in a non-flanking position. Its attack hits for 8 damage and he then uses Bone Spear which misses due to MAP (missed by 4)
Round 4
S1 is in a dire spot and burrows, then runs away, ending combat.
Between Combat:
* party heals up by Gun using medicine
* both Necromancers refocus
* Kineticist makes a fire for them to chill around during this time.
* Party continues on their way and come across an old set of large double-doors and inspect it realizing it is trapped.
* Unfortunately nobody has any thieves tools (Gun kicks himself for not putting ranks in Thievery)
* Bony decides to use a thrall to set off the trap, but after creating it, we realize that it actually can't set off the trap because it can't open the door (no actions and no way to give it a manipulate action to open the door in front of it). After some argument about how dumb that is that it can attack, but can't push on a door, I rule that this is a playtest and we are playing it by RAW.
* So, after lengthy discussion they do rock-paper-scissors to decide who opens the door while the others stand back.
* Kin loses and opens the door which sets off a trap that sprays gas into his face.
* Kin succeeds his Fort save, but is still sickened 1
* Immediately upon opening the door Kin is hit by a large pink set of jaws for 20 damage due to the dragon inside waiting for the doors to open after hearing the bickering and commotion from the other side of the door.
Severe Encounter:
* Young Omen Dragon
* Crawling Hand Swarm
Round 1
Gun shoots the dragon and hits for 9 damage, reloads, shoots again and misses
Dragon (Pinky) takes a step forward and breaths to catch Kin, Fleshy, and Bony in its breath for 28 damage. Kin crit fails, but uses a Hero Point to reroll that into a regular failure. Fleshy and Bony both fail and so all three are Slowed 1
Bony creates a thrall which misses the dragon, then uses his only other action to go into the large room. That's when he sees a swarm of undead hands writhing in the corner and alerts his party.
Fleshy goes into the room in the opposite direction of the creepy hands and uses Reach of the Dead to create a thrall next to the swarm. It attacks and hits, but most of the 9 damage is resisted (he made it slashing) which allowed 4 damage to go through.
Crawling Hand Swarm (Handy) moves to encompass the thrall and attacks it, killing it. Fleshy smiles as that is exactly what he was hoping to do (eat up 2 of the swarms actions) and then it moves to encompass Bony, but it doesn't have the actions left to attack.
Kin immediately wretches with his first action and then with his only other action moves into the room.
Round 2
Gun reloads, shoots at Pinky and hits for 11 damage and then hides/reloads in the rubble
Pinky Moves and uses Draconic Frenzy to hit Kin with a wing for 15 damage, hit Bony with a claw for 16 damage, and destroys the thrall with a claw
Bony does a recall knowledge on the dragon using Undead Lore (with Bone Speaker) and learns it's worst save is Reflex (which is relayed to the group). This helps as 3 of the players have the ability to target different saves. He then creates moves out of Handy's swarm and uses his last action to create a thrall on the other side of Handy. The attack misses.
Fleshy creates a thrall, but ops for positioning over attacking. He creates the thrall between Handy and Pinky in such a way that his Necrotic Bomb can hit them both without hitting Kin or Fleshy. Unfortunately this means it is not within reach to make its attack. He then blows it up for 25 damage. Both fail their reflex saves and since all Necromancers have Mastery of Life and Death, this deals vitality damage to Handy. It also triggers Handy's area damage weakness for a very satisfying turn.
Handy has three fairly close targets (Bony, Kin & Thrall), but none spaced to where he can get more than one. So I roll a die to determine where he goes and he goes for Kin. He moves, then does two Pummeling Grasps. The first hits for half damage doing 4 damage and the other hits for full damage doing 9 damage and knocking Kin prone.
Kin opts to stay on the ground (gutsy) to activate Thermal Nimbus and then uses Flying Flame which can hit both Handy and Pinky. Pinky succeeds his save taking 8 damage and Handy fails taking 16 damage plus triggering its area weakness.
Round 3
Gun no longer has any line of sight on bad guys in the room, so spends two actions to double move into the room and in a corner. He then shoots at the swarm as he sees a lot of the hands are not moving and the swarm is thinning out pretty badly. He hits dealing 11 bludgeoning damage which is enough to kill it despite it's resistance (it only had 2 HP left).
Pinky takes 2 damage from Thermal Nimbus and then can't resist the Kin on the ground prone. It attacks with a jaw and crits for 36 damage. It attacks with a Wing and hits for 14 damage. It attacks with a claw and misses and then rolls a Nat. 20 for its last claw attack to finish up Draconic Frenzy and does 38 more damage taking the Kin down to dying 2
Bony decides to creates a thrall next to the dragon whose attack misses and then activates Bony Barrage and Pinky fails the Reflex save taking 12 damage.
Fleshy uses Sooth to bring Kin back up on his feet and then creates a thrall next to the dragon. The attack misses
Round 4
Gun uses Running Reload to move to a corner with a lot of rubble, then attacks dealing 18 damage and then uses hide/reload.
Kin stubbornly stays on the ground and turns his aura back on and activates Thermal Nimbus again. Then uses Flying Flame on Pinky. Pinky succeeds their save and takes 7 damage.
Pinky moves and positions itself so it can get the thrall, Bony, and Kin in its breath attack. The thrall is immune so sticks around. Kin fails his save and Bony succeeds. Kin takes 22 damage and goes unconscious (not dying since it is mental damage) and Bony takes 11 damage. Pinky looks disappointed.
Bony creates a thrall which hits for 5 damage. Then uses it for Bony Barrage which Pinky succeeds against, but still takes 7 damage which is exactly enough to kill Pinky.
With combat over, they get Kin up off the ground and start looting Pinky's hoard!
Our Conclusions:
* Overall feel, both players enjoyed the Necromancer class and felt their rounds gave them options to think about and interesting choices.
* Both players commented that they almost forgot they had spells though (except the one use of Sooth) which sparked a conversation about how this class could probably due even better as a Bounded Caster which would allow a bit more power in the thralls and Grave spells
* Only creating 1 thrall at a time until level 7 is rough on action economy and feels bad in a game that emphasizes tactical movement and spells with the attack trait THIS WAS THE BIGGEST COMPLAINT BY FAR .
The group thought of two potential solutions to make combat much more fun and dynamic.
1) Simply create 2 thralls at lvl 1 and up it by one at each proficiency increase. We didn't see anything game breaking in this
2) Give Necromancer a class ability to use a free action to create 1 thrall as a once per 10 minute ability so they can start the fight with one active thrall. This can come with the caveat that it can't attack when created this way
* Both Necromancer players were a little disappointed they couldn't get a small horde going because the thralls died either before they could make another and sometimes before they could use them. Going back to the point above, being able to create 2 at lvl 1 doesn't seem broken, but would REALLY help the class feel better.
* Bone Spear looks awesome, but that 10ft range is an HUGE downer. 30 Ft range (keeping the line the same size) would be fine. Additionally, as an attack that uses a thrall, if you don't have a thrall already in place from a previous round, the attack is hard to land because of MAP caused by creating the thrall that round.
* Necrotic Bomb was very fun to use both mechanically and thematically
* Bone Speaker was very cool and did help on the dragon fight to know what save to target. Though most of the table thought it would be nice if this was a built in feature rather than a feat, given it is limited to creatures and some other specifics.
* Positioning was always in the forefront of the Necromancer players' minds.
* Even for focus spells that required saves, it was often hard to get both the thrall attack and grave spell off effectively. Thralls seem like they want to be flanking buddies, however the abilities that use them often do area damage that would hit their flanking buddy. So more than once the thrall was summoned in a place where it couldn't reach to attack so that the spell wouldn't hit their friend. I don't know how I feel about this, whether it is strategic, or overly punishing. My table was split on the opinions.
* Damage output was on par with the Kineticist from what I could tell
* We were disappointed that Dead Weight didn't come up for a good time to use it, it seems fun.
* Frankly we forgot about the Flesh Magician enhancement that makes destroyed thralls difficult terrain, however in retrospect, I don't think it would have impacted any of the fights. We did remember the Bone Shaper's enhancement, but none of the damage to them required a Reflex save, so it never came up (squirrels called for Fort and Dragon called for Will)
* Not being able to use the thralls at all, even for basic RP or menial tasks like opening the door really detracted from the fantasy. This was especially prevalent when they tried to use the thrall to spring the trap and all it could do was stand there with its nose on the door, unable to push it open.
CONCLUSION - I really like the Necromancer as a whole, but feel there are some clunky gameplay that needs to be worked out for it to shine. Thralls are very cool and with some tweaks will be great. We all agreed that a lvl 7 Necromancer would play much smoother due to creating multiple thralls, but that waiting for it to come online at level 7 is not great.
We had a lot of fun creating and playing this class and I hope this real world example can help mold the class for its future release. I, for one, can't wait to get my hands on a, hopefully, smoother version when it comes out fully fleshed out (pun intended).
I'm very excited for the Necromancer's interactions with Thralls and believe this is a great way to get the feel of a horde with the mechanical balance of PF2e.
I'll start off by listing my personal Pros/Cons on how I think this is implemented and will give more as I do real world playtests and hope others will add to the discussion as well.
Pros:
- Easy to deploy (love that I could send out 3 on turn one at level one if I want)
- Interactions with focus spells are awesome and very flavorful. I want my minions to be expendable
- Battlefield control is the Necromancer's vibe and these are a great way to do it.
- Bone Spear!
- Life Tap!
- I'm going to stop there...most of the feats look really fun
Cons:
- I really want to be able to move them for both flavor and mechanic. - Proposed Solution - Perhaps under "Create Thrall" add a line that gives you a choice to either create one or move an existing one with both options ending in said thrall making an attack
- There is no way to get rid of unwanted Thralls if you don't have the right focus spell and have already used the Consume Thrall ability in the last 10 minutes. - Potential Solution - Give the necromancer an action that is not on a cooldown and doesn't use a focus point that destroys a thrall for a minor benefit.
- What do I do with my thralls when I'm out of focus points?
- Would like a little more variety on the saves they can target, fortitude is often pretty problematic (mathematically speaking)
Questions:
- While I get that they always fail saves and are hit by attacks, I'd love some clarification on how checks against their DCs works. The big one is that Tumble Through is an untrained activity and so I'm wondering if it is the intension for enemies to auto-succeed on these, or if they have some form of DC. If their stats are simply listed as 0, then mechanically the DC would be 10 (10+modifier), but not sure if that is the intention.
- Dead Weight is a cool ability, but why would a creature try to "escape" when they can auto-succeed at attacking it and get rid of the condition?
I'm sure I'll have more as I get my hands on this class in a game!
I just received my copy of War of Immortals and am stoked. Ask me anything! I'll keep answering until I get tired, or hungry, or my job makes me do something...
Ok, I'm a bit obsessed lately with the upcoming Animist class. I've been trying to gather every bit of information I can about the class after making multiple Playtest characters. However, as we get closer to release, I'm chomping at the bits.
So, I thought I'd start a thread for those like me. What are you excited about, what kind of characters do you have in mind, what theories do you have for the Animist that haven't been revealed, etc.?
I'll start with an, admittedly out there, theory. We know that 2 of 4 practices have been teased, the Seer and Medium. The Medium is pretty straight forward I think. However the Seer was pretty vague, saying that they can find apparitions that other Animists don't. Crazy theory:
The Seer is a sort of build-your-own-apparitiin practice. Since they find ones others simply don't, that is code for being able to create thematic and unuique apparitions. In practice this could be choosing options from a laid out template.
Anyway, help me feed my Animist addiction for all things Animist in this thread.
I am literally still reading through the Playtest material and have come across Combat Medic. From the lvl 1 feat:
You are trained in Medicine and can use your Intelligence modifier in place of your Wisdom modifier for Medicine checks.
This is something that 2e has mostly avoided doing that was very rampant in PF1e. That is to say, changing the ability mod for a skill or action. The only other one I know of is the Thief being able to do dex-to-damage (though there may be another I'm missing). Sure, there are a few that let you use a different skill, but those are usually for very specific activities, and not replacing the mod used for a skill, but what skill is used.
Honestly, while I know a lot of people might like this, I'm not convinced it is a good trend for the game. Once it is in place, that opens the door to other feats to do similar and frankly, I'm not a fan and as a former power gamer in 1e, it was heavily abused there. Am I over reacting?
Gorum, our god of war himself is confirmed to be marked for death. Now the question is, how will he die? Who or what will kill him? Let's have some fun with conjecture while we wait months for the answer.
I dont have a good guess right now, but I don't think he'll die IN the War of Immortals, but that his death will CAUSE the war of Immortals.
In nearly all of the Godsrain prophecies, the god who died caused a lot of havoc with their domains. Almost twisting them out of control. I think similar happens here. The god of war dies, and as a result the biggest war the universe has ever seen starts.
I love the Kineticist! I love it so much I've not been able to decide on my next build because I want to play them all. So, what is your favorite impulse(s).
I typically play low to mid levels, so don't pay much mind to higher levels myself.
Personally I LOVE Scrap Barricade. I'm a sucker for wall spells and this comes online at lvl 6 and is a true wall in that they can't choose to walk through it. When they do break it down they are punished with some damage and then I can throw another one up!
With Treasure Vaults out now, I'd like to turn some attention to the upcoming Rage of Elements book coming out. This has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it is my most anticipated book since SoM...ok...it does! I just want to talk about it and get people's thoughts and expectations.
I'll start:
The semi-mainstream use of Radiation damage in the form of Metal Kineticist using it as an elemental damage type and Metal based spells using it.
Getting a new cosmological chart outlining the primary planes of existence and their relationship and proximity to one another
Insights into naturally occurring portals into the various elemental planes (such as the one in Oprak to the Earth Elemental plane)
An Elemental Eidolon
Some additional feats for our Geniekin versatile heritages as well as Wood and Metal Geniekin added
Details on the City of Brass (and perhaps a Society scenario later that goes there)
An Archetype tapping into the Wood plane that is based around plant growth and control
I'm interested in other people's thoughts as well. This book has so much potential!
I've been a long time subscriber and want to continue to be. That said, finances are tough this month and the Treasure Vault book is not one that I'm particularly excited about. Is there a way to pause my subscription, or tell them to simply skip this book?
Skill Feats
1. Concealing Legerdemain
2. Cat Fall
3. Wary Disarmament
4. Natural Medicine
5. Quick Unlock
6. Steady Balance
General Feats
1. Toughness
2. Fleet
Class Feats
1. Burning Jet
2. Tidal Hands 6d6
3. Flame Eruption 4d6
4. Water Dance
5. Desert Shimmer 5
6. Slippery Sleet 8d4
7. Solar Detonation 3d10 / Torrent in the Blood (second is general my floating feat chosen) 7d6
8. Fusion Blast
Party Makeup:
1. Animal Instinct Barbarian / Goloma
2. Time Oracle / Human
3. Thief Rogue / Human
4. [Me] Dual Gate (Fire/Water) Kineticist / Sprite
My thoughts:
After this section you'll find a blow-by-blow of what happened in this one shot as I hope that will be helpful as well. I’ll put my thoughts here though for those who don’t want to read the whole thing.
Flavor – Fantastic. I loved playing with fire and water elements, I also really enjoyed how well it meshed with the Sprite ancestry
Skill Challenges – I wasn’t useless, but there was always 1 or 2 people better suited than I for the skills. I didn’t feel crippled, but I did feel bummed out that I never had a max skill since I had put my investment in CON and that has no skills to work with.
Combat – simply put, DISMAL!
I was near useless against the ghost. The barbarian simply powered through its resistances, the oracle had affective spells against it, and the rogue could recall knowledge about it and then do a little damage.
Against the assassins, it felt better since I used Slippery Sleet. It didn’t do much damage, but the added affect made it hard for them to close the gap and provided flat-footed for one round to my friends due to clever placement. However after that, I really wasn’t much use.
Against the primary enemy, I did next to nothing. The Oracle had different spells to cycle through, provided great reactions (that ultimately allowed us to win) and was very useful as the Delay Consequence saved the rogue from death that round and allowed him to make the final blow to the enemy with the special McGuffin.
I also had very little movement in combat as I was constantly having to use all three actions to even try being affective. Between gathering my element constantly and using 2-3 actions to do something that did half to a quarter of damage as the rogue, barbarian, or even the oracle felt really bad. I definitely weighted the party down.
My half basked suggestions:
• Keeping CON as the primary ability is what I’d like, but as is it takes
more away then it adds. Especially in the skills department, so something
needs to be done to compensate.
• The barbarian still had more HP than me which felt bad considering what I
have to invest.
• Action economy feels very clunky
• Damage needs some big tweaks
• I felt like I was playing similar play style to a Psychic, however without
the same arsenal as they have
Full breakdown of the scenario (spoilers ahead):
Initial gathering of information was helped by the Rogue primarily, however my abilities to speak to Dragonflies (via Melixie) was very insightful about the vessel at the beginning.
We were taken to dinner on a mysterious (bad) ship. After we were told nobody is aloud “down stairs” and so, of course, I wanted to sneak down stairs. The rogue easily snuck down, I am only trained in Stealth, but my tiny stature gave me a GM bonus as I used the waiter and other objects for cover. My Barbarian and Oracle friends were not able to make it unnoticed, so they attempted and failed to gather information about what is down stairs.
The stairs just kept going on and on. I had no way to detect magic or determine if there was magic or illusion, so I gathered water and let it tumble down the stairs. It acted as I would expect in an endless staircase, so we were stumped for the time being.
Waiter came in and I stayed as a tiny creature and shadowed him down the stairs, but still was not able to make it down, so I returned to the party. As I did though, I noticed something that caused me to make a Nature check and I found out the water outside the ship was not in sync with the boat and that it wasn’t an illusion or nature.
AT this point battle began against one enemy who was clearly a plot device. My initiative was second to last. Rogue failed the recall knowledge and then moved for a strike and missed. It then used a breath weapon to which I critically failed and “died” along with our Oracle. The Rogue and Barbarian lasted 2 more round before joining us in death.
We then started a second time loop as we were when we first stepped onto the ship. We then were able to make it to the lower deck. We then started a fight with a few assassins trying to hide.
I used Slippery Sleet for 3 actions. One critically succeeded and the other succeeded, so I did a total 9 damage to one of them. There was then a lot of difficult terrain which wasted some of their movement actions. Barbarian went to rage and attacked one of the assassins that was flat-footed due to my ice and critically hit dealing 62 damage damage than I did (but I helped as it only crit due to my ice). The Rogue feinted and then hit with a sneak attack that also did 29 damage and then a second attack with 18 more damage and then again for another 26 damage. The oracle then tried Telekinetic Projectile and missed, then cast shield.
I then gathered fire and then did a Fusion Blast for 21 damage. This took out the first assassin. The assassin then failed it’s attack against the Barbarian. Barbarian who did a total of 42 damage in two strikes. The rogue then attacked for critical hit of 46 damage on her first attack (and destroyed his armor with the corrosive rune) and he gave up.
We then tried to get into a very complex locked room that I failed to unlock, but my Barbarian friend simply broke down a door with a 39 Athletics check.
This started a fight with an incorporeal ghost. Barbarian punches the ghost for 28 damage. The rogue then did a recall knowledge very successfully and then missed with a natural 1 but hit with second attack for 15 damage. I then went and having no good options for incorporeal and so did a regular fire attack (since I had fire already gathered) simply because I have an impactful rune to do force damage. I did a total of 1 damage (force was the only thing that went through). My second attack was a Fusion Blast that missed. The Oracle then did 16 positive damage to it. It then did a cone attack and I succeeded taking 22 points of cold damage.
Next round Barbarian attacked for 32 damage in the first attack. The second attack missed. Rogue then attacked and dealt 18 damage and the ghost then became willing to talk. I tried a diplomacy check and succeeded making the ghost slightly less angry. The Oracle then tried a diplomacy check and critically succeeded ending the combat.
Upon talking to the ghost, we got some plot information.
We then went into a skill challenge. Everybody except me critically succeeded, I succeeded (some amazing rolls all around)
There was another skill challenge that using Perception/Occultism/Arcana and everybody had better options than I did.
We then started the fight with the boss who is supposed to kill us for plot reasons. Rogue went first, moved and used a plot device weakness to cause it to be sickened. Barbarian moved and missed it’s attack. Enemy went and did an AoE. We had 2 critical fails (myself included) and a failure. Used the Talisman from the plot to negate the attack. I then attacked with water blast, missed, then did Tidal Hands. He succeeded his save, but took 14 damage (after halving). Oracle did Agonizing Despair and it failed it’s save taking 25 damage and becoming frightened 2.
Next round the rogue moved twice and attacked for 24 damage. Barbarian then hit twice one for 31 damage and the next for 17 damage. Monster then went and it hit two people and crit me for 54 damage. It then ran away and both the rogue and Barbarian followed it with reaction, leaving me in a room by myself. My turn I gathered Fire element, moved to target it again and attacked with a fire blast that missed ending my turn. The Oracle went and cast Temporal Distortion, but the enemy critically succeeded, then moved away.
Third round the rogue (who was already flanking) attacked for 30 damage on the first attack and missed the second attack. It then attacked and dropped the rogue. I then attacked with a fire blast and then did a flame eruption. It succeeded taking a total of 5 fire damage. The oracle moved and inflicted sickened on it, then cast shield.
Fourth round the barbarian missed by rolling a 2 on the die twice in a row and then missed the crit fishing third attack. Rogue continued dying. Monster went and brought full death to the rogue while hurting the oracle and barbarian (I was some distance away). The oracle then used the breath of life reaction and brought the rogue back. I then gathered fire again and did a fusion blast that hit for 16 damage. Oracle used Agonizing Despair again, it succeeded, but it was still frightened 1 and took 13 damage after being halved.
Fifth round the barbarian rolled another 2 on the dice, then moved to the rogue and healed her for 31 healing. Rogue went, grabbed her weapon, stood up, and attacked for a critical for 32 damage (no sneak attack). The monster went and hurt people around it taking the rogue down again as well as the oracle. I went and missed with my fire blast, then did Flame Eruption. It succeeded it’s save and took 8 damage total.
Barbarian then attacked for 32 damage on a regular hit, then missed its other two attacks. Monster went and downed the barbarian then strode up to me. I was able to use Burning Jet (this was fun) to successfully run away, unfortunately there is an inescapable dome barrier and so eventually I was dropped by long range spells.
Time reset (the scenario plot device) and we started again
We then did some gather information checks and had multiple successes. Then we gained plot knowledge for the scenario.
We now had a special item to fight the main boss (who has now killed us twice) and awaited the enemy to come find us.
The enemy won initiative and failed to tumble through our barbarian who was blocking the door. It then attacked for a critical and did 44 damage. The barbarian missed the first attack and then drank a potion. The rogue tried to tumble through and was stopped, so just attacked without the flank and critted for 46 damage (without sneak attack). The oracle then moved and cast Agonizing Despair. It succeeded, but was frightened and it took 15 damage after halving. I did Slippery Sleet, it succeeded so took 11 damage total while causing him to be flat-footed to help out my friends.
The enemy failed a tumble through, then succeeded to get past the barbarian, then got a natural 1 on its attack. The barbarian attacked for 35 damage and missed a second attack. Rogue missed both attacks. Oracle used bon-mot and failed, then used Temporal Distortion and failed. I gathered water, blasted for a hit and did 13 damage.
The enemy then did a big AoE attack that did 43 damage. The barbarian attacked and did 19 damage and missed its second attack. The rogue then used the special plot McGuffin to take it close to death. The oracle cast Agenizing Despair for 31 damage and making it frightened 2. I delayed my action until after the enemy. It critically hit the rogue, but the oracle used Delay Consequence. It then attacked again for 30 damage. I then moved in and used Tidal Hands which it succeeded against. I did a total of 9 damage. The barbarian then grabbed the enemy, then missed its attacks. The rogue then used the McGuffin and killed the enemy, ending the combat and the scenario.
Ok, so we've talked a lot about damage and how we are lacking right now. However I want to talk about skills. The Kineticist seems to be the worst class out of combat and in combat that requires skill checks (i.e. disable the crazy trap or magic thing).
Given the KAS is CON and that doesn't have any skill attached we are already less skilled than any other class (no 18 on a skill ability). Then we have only 3 skills + INT modifier which is kinda standard, except the Kineticist is MAD for physical skills (CON for class DC, Str for damage and hit, Dex for AC) and a negative for Wisdom is a bad idea (will saves can be nasty). That leaves Cha and Int as the likely low skills. Therefore it is likely to only have 2 or 3 skills total, and none of them at your best stat.
So, the result is a class that contributes a lot less in skill challenges of any sort. At least the Fighter and Barbarian get really good use out of Athletica AND they contribute considerably more damage than the Kineticist.
So, I would love to see something either akin to the Thaumatuge special Lore (in concept, not that elaborate) or I'd like the power budget of the class to take into consideration this significant (in my opinion) deficit of the class design.
Ok, so I’ve taken a look at the Kineticist and all that is in its kit and am currently making a few to play in multiple playtest scenarios to come. My first impression is that I really like the class and it has some real potential. However, the question I have to ask, and that I fear to ask, is “why CON?”
Now, I really want it to stay our first CON based class. I love that. It was our first and only CON based class in PF1e as well too, which I loved. However in the 1e version it made sense mechanically because of “Burn.” For those not familiar with the 1e class that mechanic basically let you take 1 point of nonlethal damage per character level to then do big moves. So, being a CON base class was almost required in order for it not to knock itself unconscious during fights (especially longer combats). However there is no such mechanic. Additionally, the 1e Kineticist’s damage was modified by Constitution as well.
Now, for what’s in this 2e playtest, the Class DC is based on CON (though arbitrarily) and there are exactly 2 other things specially for CON and both are niche feats. The first is the Familiar’s perception/acrobatics/stealth use your CON modifier if you take that first level feat. The other is an 8th level feat of “Aura Shaping” that determines your number of creatures you can designate as immune to your Aura (again very niche and optional).
I’d like to see the final version have some other cool things that have to do with CON and/or HP. I really don’t want “Burn” back as I’m glad that was done away with as it confused so many players. However, as it stands, it seems that CON is the ability modifier, not because it makes sense, but because it was expected of the class due to its 1e counterpart.
So, any thoughts on what could make the class feel more thematic in its use of CON as a primary stat? How can we show in mechanics and theme that these Kineticists are more robust in body than other classes?
Doesn't seem to be a thread for this yet, so I'll start one.
I just got my PDF and am browsing through it. Such great art and looks like a whopping 14 architypes. Looks like 19 new vehicles too...wow. Including the APPARATUS OF THE OCTOPUS which is basically a 2 man submarine that can also crawl slowly on land!
I did a quick search and couldn't find anything on this. Are the new Magus/Summoner iconic pre-gens out somewhere yet? If not, do we know if/when the they are planned to be released?
This was a cantrip I was excited about and watching the SoM livestream also made it seem great. Unfortunately after reading it, it seems that it will not work with Battle Medicine. Would love for somebody to show me I'm wrong, or to see it as part of the errata to work with feats like this (or similar ones in the future). As it stands I guess I'll just go back to buying and wearing healers tools :(
Would be nice if it just used language saying that it acts as healers tools and you may made a medicine check as part of casting the spell.
I'm very excited for the playable Sprite ancestry and have been trying to wrap my head around them a bit more after getting my copy of the Ancestry Guide. Here are a few things I've absorbed so far.
1. This is the first playable ancestry that does NOT have the Humanoid trait. I'm interested to know what spells/abilities/special things this might impact. I haven't had time to go through all the spells to see what needs a Humanoid target or any other special quirks this might mean, but am really interested to know. Any thoughts?
2. Being tiny, if they are in an enemy's square, does that mean they flank with any ally adjacent the same enemy?
3. Since they can freely move into enemy squares, does that mean they don't have to use "tumble through" to move through an enemy square as well?
4. I didn't see anything on how tall "tiny" really is in terms of how high it can reach in it's square. If I want to sit at a table for example, would I have to climb up the chair and then jump up on the table to see? If I'm trying to open a dresser drawer, how would I go about that?
These are just some of my initial thoughts. I'd love to hear more, or hear about interesting builds anybody has come up with for these great addition to the game.
I debated on whether to add this since the session was rather short. However every little bit helps I suppose.
Also, to preference this, I typically stay away from straight up martial classes as I like to have a lot of things to do and various options that caster and/or support characters generally present. So take this feedback with a grain of salt.
The quest starts with a basic skill challenge which pits the party members head-to-head against martial arts students. While I didn't have a lot of skills trained as a Gunslinger, I did have many of the DEX based skills trained (Acrobatics, Stealth, Thievery) which really played into these skill challenges nicely. So I participated and was successful.
In the fight, I found myself in a repeating rotation. Load, Fire, Rapid Reload. Each turn was a rinse and repeat. The first round I moved slightly closer to an enemy (as free action) and set myself up in the corner of the room. I then started my rotation above. I never varied from this rotation the entire fight (which was fairly long with 6 rounds).
I received 1 critical which did some major damage. The rest of my attacks were all hits. I only missed one time (with first attack, not risky reload) so accuracy wasn't an issue, but damage outside of the crit was very underwhelming.
I intended to demoralize (had Intimidation trained), but it never seemed like it would do any real good. I wasn't missing, and doing that would mean one less attack so the slight chance of getting more of a crit didn't seem worth losing an attack and only attacking once in the round.
Firearm ace just seems mandatory. I made multiple versions of the Gunslinger before playing, and anything that lacked Firearm Ace just seemed lacking. As such, I really think this should be baked into the class rather than a feat.
In the end, the RP was pretty fun, the class performance just didn't lend to a fun style of play for me personally.
Lvl 3 Inventor playing in Low Tier 1-14 Lions of Katapesh **SPOILERS**
Name: Doc Whatever (his name is unpronounceable, so this is what people call him most of the time) & #42 (prototype construct)
Human: Versatile Heritage
Background: Tinker
Feats: Natural Ambition, Quick Repair, Multi-Lingual, Alchemical Crafting, Incredible Initiative, Toughness, Prototype Companion, Tamper, Kickback Strike
Innovation: Weapon – Glaive w/ Entangling Form
STR 16 | DEX 12 | CON 12 | INT 18 | WIS 10 | CHA 10
Intro: We had four players with 15 points, so we were at the top of low-tier. Our group was made up of a Champion, Cleric, Witch, and my Inventor
Encounter 1 – 4 Fire wolves
I grappled the first one from 10 feet away (felt really nice) and so it couldn't attack me and was not able to escape. I ordered my construct to flank with our champion and help him while I dealt with the other.
Construct hits 2 out of 3 times in this fight and did moderate damage
My overdrive critted (and didn't provoke since I had my opponent grappled 10 feet away) which felt like a good damage boost
I killed my wolf, then with the last attack used Kickback strike to do the killing blow and then move swiftly into position to attack the next wolf on the other side of the map.
I attacked the next wolf and weakened it for the champion to come and dispatch it easily next turn.
Overall, I felt very useful and did something different each time.
Encounter 2 – We didn't have anybody able to track properly, so ended up fighting some lions in the camp
I did overdrive on my first turn and moved. Got a regular success, so bonus was nice, but not amazing
My second turn was spent saving a downed ally (move, pull potion, force-feed potion to ally)
I then used my prototype to flank with the Champion (it missed it's attack).
Next turn I got a solid hit on one of the lions and missed the second time
The lions still alive then ran away
Encounter 3 – Faced the escaped lions & big lion
First round I readied an action to grab anything that comes close, unfortunately I rolled a 7 a failed (the Champion dispatched both the wounded lions on his turn)
Second round used Overdrive (succeeded) and moved, then commanded my prototype companion to move towards the newly seen big boss. All my actions were spent doing this.
Move and hit with my attack (crit) as well as 1 hit with my prototype companion. Did decent damage (21)
Next round my prototype was dazzled (who knew, not immune) and so I moved and used explosion. Did 9 damage as it failed it's reflex save. In comparison, my previous round I did 21 damage (though admittedly one attack was a crit) so the explosion was a bit underwhelming...but still cool.
At this point our Champion finished him off with his first attack doing 9 damage.
Feelings:
Having a reach weapon with the Grapple trait was awesome. Being able to grapple a medium creature while not being within their reach felt very rewarding (though I can see why reach and grapple aren't on any current weapons naturally). In this group I was the primary damage dealer and felt effective. I certainly didn't feel like a monster in combat, but I was effective.
I play a lot of casters and while in this group I was a prime damage dealer, my damage overall felt only slightly above a typical cantrip damage I do with my casters. While this isn't terrible, I feel like if there was another martial (other than our defensively minded Champion) I would have felt lacking. This isn't bad though as it means I was right in between a cantrip and another martial
Input:
Trip and Shove both have weapon modifications that can pair with Versatile. I would like the same option with Grapple as I would love to add Grapple and Versatile at the same time.
Perhaps make the success for Overdrive add your entire intelligence bonus and a crit maybe add that plus 1d4 fire damage would put me in a place that felt good. The one time I crit succeeded at my overdrive I felt like I was doing good damage, but the other times really didn't feel much difference and honestly made me feel like I just reached a point where I would have been had I been able to put 18 to strength.
At the end of the session, I felt good. I was able to use my crafting on some skill checks between combat and was able to use some knowledge skills between fights as well, so I felt useful. Combat was interesting as I had a ton of options. Explosion and Overdrive were a bit underwhelming, but not unfun. I really like this class, and with some tweaks, I think it can make it to my top 3 favorites.
One thing I'd love to see added either by class features or feats is more inventive solutions to problems in and out of combat. Gadgets if you will (I want a batman style utility belt). Ideally something that allows flexibility rather than very specific feats.I like the idea of temporary gadgets. Let us be inventive. I'd like to be able to quickly build things such as...
*Self deploying Caltrops: Caltrops with a movement speed of 20 ft.
*Retractable climbing gear
*Scope: increase the range of firearms by 20ft
*Extendo arm: Give reach, cannot be used to make a strike or attack
*Duel Talisman Slot: slot up to 2 talismans to your weapon
*Stucko: +1 to next grapple attempt
*Sudden Boom: distract your foe with a sudden burst of sound, causing them to be flat-footed to your next strike this turn.
*Marble deployment: +1 to your next trip attack this turn
In playtesting with a specific PFS scenario, a suddenly very relevant discussion took place. Can a firearm function underwater? Now logic says that no, a flintlock style firearm should not in any way be able to function fully submerged. However, in looking at RAW, it seems there is no problem. It doesn't have the fire trait anywhere in its description, nor does it have any text to suggest that it can't work underwater.
So, I'm wondering what the intention here is, or whether it was even thought of in development. Or, am I missing some key text that makes it clear cut?
**SPOILERS AHEAD** I will attempt to be vague on plot points while still giving a good accounting of the experience.
Last night (Saturday 9/12) I GMed the Pathfinder Society scenario 1-05 with a group of made up of all level 1 characters. We had:
-Summoner, Dragon Eidolon
-Witch, Curse
-Barbarian, Dragon (this caused some cool RP moments with the Eidolon)
-Rogue, Ruffian
-Cleric, Cloistered
-Swashbuckler, Battledancer
In the below I am outlining the Summoner's contributions to the skill challenges and combats and I'll end with general feel from a GM and Player perspective.
SKILL CHALLENGE 1 (NOBLES)
While it didn't have much of an impact on the skill challenge itself, the tactic is worth mentioning. They approached the Nobles cautiously and while some of the group marched right in, the Eidolon and the Rogue stayed out of sight and used stealth for a potential flanking situation if things went bad. Things didn't go bad, but it was interested that the Summoner was both part of the visible group marching in, and the potential ambushing group sneaking around.
As for the skill challenge itself, the Summoner contributed rather equally when compared to the others.
ENCOUNTER A (RAVEN SWARM)
The Eidolon contributed slightly with the breath weapon, but that was minor assistance as they made their basic reflex saves, the damage contributed was due to the weakness. The attacks made could not get past the swarm resistances. The Barbarian and Swashbuckler were the heroes here as their massive single attacks made the resistances trivial and took out the swarms.
AVALANCHE CHALLENGE
The Eidolon made it up just fine. Unfortunately the Summoner herself triggered an avalanche even with the extra assistance. To be fair, so did the Witch.
SKILL CHALLENGE & ENCOUNTER B (TREELINE)
The Eidolon made the climb easily along with most of the others. Once again, the Summoner and Witch struggled. When it came to the goats, the Swashbuckler and Cleric were the heroes making the checks necessary to calm the goats to avoid the combat.
As for the skill challenge, once again the Summoner contributed fairly equally compared to the others.
ENCOUNTER C (WARG)
The Eidolon's breath weapon softened up the Warg and wolves as she won initiative. the bite attack failed to hit the Warg's AC though. The rogue ultimately got swallowed whole (she was a goblin), but managed to cut her way out and do significant damage afterwards with her dogslicers (ironically). The Swashbuckler and Rogue took out the Warg singlehandedly while with the help of the Witch's "evil eye" curse. The Barbarian took out the wolves mostly himself.
In the end, the Summoner and Eidolon tried, but failed to land their hits outside of the first round. The Cleric, using Divine Lance ultimately did even damage on any single target, but the breath weapon ultimately out-damaged the Cleric. The Witch debuffed the entire fight.
ORC CAMP
The Summoner, Rogue, and Swashbuckler all contributed fairly evenly in befriending the orcs
ENCOUNTER D (OGRE)
The Ogre acted first and put a Javelin in the Eidolon's face for some big damage. It then missed the Rogue with it's second Javelin. The Summoner beat the melee's and shrews in initiative and started by moving the Eidolon in position and was able to get 4 of the 6 shrews (I bumped it up a bit considering how the team took on the Warg encounter) as well as the ogre in the breath weapon. It wasn't enough to drop any of the them, but felt quite satisfying lighting up the room in his icy breath. Unfortunately this left the Summoner with an action left to use, but she was out of range to do Intimidate, so she cast shield with the last action. This did not have any impact though considering nobody.
As the fight moved one, it was difficult overall at first because the shrew's blocked the bottle neck entrance. The Rogue was able to tumble through, but the Eidolon and Barbarian had to hack their way in. The Eidolon killed 1 shrew, then the Summoner wanted to use Summon Animal, but I had to remind them that "Act Together" couldn't be used as a part of an activity, so it couldn't be used to cast the 3 action spell since her Eidolon already attacked. Because of this she attacked boosted her Eidolon and overkilled a weekend shrew then moved to the Ogre.
Meanwhile people had been weakened by the Ogre's ranged attacks, so the Cleric needed to heal. The Cleric wanted to do a 3 action heal, but couldn't get the Eidolon and Barbarian if she did that. Luckily our Summoner reminded the Cleric that as long as she was in the burst, the Eidolon would get healed. This allowed the Cleric to give a well needed 3 action heal.
Ultimately when the Ogre died, the amount of damage done to it from the Eidolon was ultimately inconsiquential to it's death. It did hit and do some damage, but had the Summoner/Eidolon not been there, the Swashbuckler, Rogue, and Barbarian would have still had the Ogre dead in the same round.Of course, without the Eidolon, killing the Shrews would have taken at least 1 more round than it did (possibly 2 if the Swashbuckler tumbled through to go at the Ogre)
SUMMARY:
- Liked the coolness factor of having 2 characters linked as a single partnership. The shared HP pool was both neat and functional
- Eidolon felt week in damage compared to all 3 of the marshals in the group
- The ability to be in two places at once, and simultaneously hidden and seen was very cool
- At first it seemed the Summoner had so many options by having 2 characters and a mix between spells and melee, however as the session continued, it became apparent that the options were more of an illusion as each turn needed to be run with the same buff, move, attack, attack or move, breath, buff, attack. This became a bit redundant over the 5.5 hours of play
- In skill challenges, the Summoner seemed right on par with the others. It didn't seem more powerful or weaker
- Climbing challenges were uniquely difficult and easy. The Eidolon was good, but the Summoner had trouble due to the weak strength. While this was fine, it seemed almost like a penalty because the player had to succeed twice on those challenges
- The player was very excited about summoning at first, but when she realized that it meant a dead turn for her Eidolon AND what she summoned would likely be 1 shotted without doing damage, it lost it's appeal
- The fact that the healer could heal the front-line Eidolon without getting anywhere near it was fantastic. At one point (I forget which encounter) the Cleric even used Battle Medicine on the Summoner to heal the Eidolon quite some distance away. That was really cool!
- At the end of the day, the player liked the class and I enjoyed having her in the party. It was fun, but a little underwhelming compared to the things the other party members did at the same level.
SUGGESTIONS:
- Make "Act Together" work for using multi-action activities such as casting a spell. This one thing would have made my player's day by allowing her to use Summon Animal without feeling like her Eidolon was just sitting there like a log. This would have also given her something useful to do on a few turns such as casting a cantrip like Ray of Frost.
- The breath weapon wasn't overly powerful, but felt fulfilling. Incidentally, this was the only combat reason why CHA did anything at all for the character. Ultimately it seems like putting light armor on or using Mage Armor and investing in more physical stats for the Summoner would have proven more useful.
- Having to buff the Eidolon every turn got pretty tedius. While you could say the Swashbuckler had to do the same thing, the payout was SOOO much greater with the Swashbuckler's finisher. The Barbarian only had to invest one action once for the entire fight, and the Rogue didn't have to invest at all (unless you count the Tumble Through action to get them flatfooted if he beat his buddies in initiative).
I've just started building out my Summoner for the playtest and am happy with so many things so far. What I'm missing though, is summons. With the spells being limited to 4 spells ever that doesn't leave much room. The big gap in this build seems to be the ability to feel like a master summoner.
I could see fixing this pretty easily with a Lvl 1 focus spell for Summon XYZ where it is determined by your Eidolons trait (aka summon animal, summon construct, summon celestial [need this spell in the book], etc.). I think it would balance well and should be able to be used even with your Eidolon out. After all, with the way minions are done in 2e, the action economy takes care of itself.
You conjure an otherworldly being to fight for you. Choose a creature sharing the trait of your Eidolon whose level is -1. Heightening the spell increases the maximum level of creature you summon.
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Of course they would need to make sure that they have ample creatures of each level for the various Eidolon's trait for this to work, but I think that is easily doable with Bestiary 3 coming as well as other books between now and then.
So I'm eagerly awaiting the Secrets of Magic book next year because I'm in love with the Summoner class (am in all game types). While I wait, I was thinking of the other classes from 1e that haven't yet arrived in 2e and as I looked there are a number that just seem like they would be better Archetypes or maybe class options rather than whole classes themselves. Here are my thoughts on what we have left, would love to hear other thoughts as well.
Cavalier - Archetype - this was just introduced in APG and I think it works well here
Gunslinger - Class - Just too many unique aspects for anything less I think
Inquisitor - Subclass of a Cleric or perhaps a type of Champion
Magus - Class - announced as part of Secrets of Magic
Shifter - Subclass of a Druid - I always thought this should be a Druid branch, basically trade spells for better and partial wild shaping (1e screwed the pooch on this though)
Vampire Hunter - Archetype - seems like it could go with a lot of classes and add some niche stuff
Ninja - Archetype - I initially though subclass for a rogue, but I can see other classes really benefiting from some Ninja training
Samurai - Archetype - they were basically a Cavalier without a mount and similar to our new Marshal
Arcanist - I'm torn between a Wizard subclass and a full class
Bloodrager - Subclass of a Barbarian - really seems to fit in nicely with the others
Brawler - I'm torn between a Monk subclass or a Archetype
Shaman - Class - I originally thought this would be a Druid or Summoner subclass, but there is enough uniqueness of this to warrant a class of its own I think
Slayer - Subclass of a Ranger - seems to fit in with the whole "hunter" vibe of the Ranger
Kineticist - Class - these are very unique with their own mechanic. Would love to see them redone in a more friendly way though (they had a very high learning curve, but were so fun once you got it)
Medium - ???? - I really have no idea
Mesmerist - subclass of a Witch? - Thematically the Witch and Mesmerist are very different. However both are controllers and de-buffers at heart. I could easily be convinced otherwise though
Occultist - Archetype - they always came across as rather gimmicky to me and I think they would make a good Archetype for a lot of 2e classes
Psychic - As they were in 1e, this could be a good Sorcerer or Wizard (I know they were spontaneous) subclass - That said, I would love to see them be made a bit more unique and become a full class
Spiritualist - Subclass of the Summoner - They are so very similar mechanically that it was almost like they wanted a re-do for the Summoner originally
So, those are my thoughts, anybody have any of their own to share?
P.S. please don't hate me if I didn't do your favorite class justice :)
So, especially with APG's valet familiar ability, it seems familiars with the right abilities (such as manual dexterity) are meant to be able to hold small items. Personally I like to use them to spread caltropes (at least I did in 1st ed). However since they don't have a listed carrying capacity I question this ability. Then since valet is now a thing, it seems like I might be missing something in the rules.
All said, I can't fathom that a familiar with the proper appendages couldn't carry at least light or even 1 bulk.
63 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the errata.
7 people marked this as a favorite.
I'm continuing to read through my copy of Ultimate Intrigue and have started looking at this archetype. My question is in regards to their familiar. Can they take, and keep a familiar archetype such as Mascot?
On one hand it says in the description "At 3rd level, the magical child’s familiar reveals another aspect of its form, and its vigilante identity changes into a creature on the Improved Familiar list that would be available to a 3rd-level spellcaster (the animal guide’s social identity always remains as the original normal animal)." At first glance one would think you couldn't have the familiar archetype because Improved Familiars don't have the "speak with animals of their kind"
However, the Animal Guide changes form into, but does not actually become, an improved familiar so I'd think they keep all of the basic familiar abilities. This would, happily, allow them to take Mascot since it is still the same familiar who would have had the archetype when they started.
So, I just got my Ultimate Intrigue book and was really looking forward to the Mesmerist architypes. I really want to like the Eyebiter in particular as I love the flavor and always liked pets/familiars. However, can somebody help me understand the use of this architype a bit better.
The Eyeball Familiar, while cool thematically, seems rather underwhelming. It does not give any familiar bonus, it can't be improved, it has no limbs to hold tools, it has no attacks or physical attacks, it only flies at 20 feet, no hit die/saves/or skill ranks of its own, subpar ability stats, and leaves you dazzled anytime it leaves your head!
The Staring Eye (5th level) seems to have a few uses, but even that sounds like it doesn't give you an extra hypnotic stare, but just changes from where it is coming.
Am I missing something, can somebody help me understand how this is an improvement on Mesmer? Or is this just another thematically cool concept with little game usefulness?
I'm new to the Pathfinder Society play, but have been playing D&D and Pathfinder for years. That said, I'm interested in playing a Homunculist in PFS play and have a few questions.
The wording for this ability is:
"The homunculist has created a living homunculus in the shape of an animal or vermin. It functions in all ways as a familiar, treating the homunculist's alchemist level as his effective wizard level."
Questions:
1) What stats do we use for the familiar? Is it the stats of the animal or vermin of which it takes the shape, the homunculus stats (just looking like an animal/vermin), or some hybrid?
2) Does it retain the construct abilities as the homunculus does?
3) What is it's type? Construct or animal/vermin?
4) Does it qualify us for the Improved Familiar feat?
5) Could you have this ability, as well as take the Tumor Familiar discovery at the same time?
Thanks, I want to make sure if I create this character that everything goes smoothly in the PFS games I play (especially since I don't know the GMs).
