New Iconic Pre-Gens


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I did a quick search and couldn't find anything on this. Are the new Magus/Summoner iconic pre-gens out somewhere yet? If not, do we know if/when the they are planned to be released?

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

There aren't going to be Pregens for them.

Dark Archive **

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Nefreet wrote:
There aren't going to be Pregens for them.

This makes me very sad...and angry. I'm Sangry! Did they say why?

Thanks for the info though.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

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There are several reasons we're not creating new pregens:

1) Nobody on the OP team has any time to do them, and nobody on any other team seems eager to pick up the project (which, yes, takes a lot more time than you think it does, it's not just "build a character," there are a lot of different inputs to be taken into account)

2) Pregens serve two functions in our eyes: they help fill out a table with a GM or player-controlled fourth PC, and they help new players sit down at a table without a character and jump right in. To the former point, we already have a full stable of pregens such that you could run an entire table and still not use all the pregens available, so we don't need more to create a table.

3) To the latter, the classes we're releasing now are much more complex and really not the sort of thing we want to encourage a new player to sit down with at their first game. I'd much rather a newbie run with a CRB class than teach them how a summoner or magus works on the fly, not to mention a gunslinger or inventor or whatever other complicated nonsense we're about to playtest.

4) we just don't want Seltiyel to have nice things /s

I understand that there are some people who want to use them as a "try before you buy" case to try out a new class, and that's great, that's the one use case that we're really not going to fulfill. But if you want to do that with a level 1 character, the PFS rules allow full rebuilds until level 2, so go play some bounties and then if you hate the class, rebuild; and if you want to do it with a higher level, we have numerous adventures sanctioned in Adventure Mode where you can get credit for a build you won't be committed to. There's also always the possibility of one-shots or other pregen adventures using these classes.

The same logic applies to higher-level pregens; we're not gonna make 7th-level pregens for PFS, or 11th level for SFS, so really the shop is closed on pregens until/unless a new edition or game comes along, or someone in the company ends up with a bunch of free time and decides they wanna pick up the project.

I am textdumping all this because I've written it out half a dozen times on Discord over the past year but now it'll be in one place where I can point back to it; thanks for providing me with a soapbox, this is not meant to be any sort of admonishment for asking the question! It's a fair question and I'd rather be upfront about why we're not doing 'em going forward.

Wayfinders 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Contributor

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Thanks for writing this out, Alex. I've added it to my curated list of PFS decisions on the forums that I can point to when people ask.

This all makes great sense.

Still... I am going to miss that Summoner pregen because Ija and her dragon were so cuuuuute! I loved their backstory, and now most people will never see it (since they won't know to go back to the blogs.)

That said, I fully agree with your decision. As a GM, the last thing I want to do is to explain a super complicated class to a new person playing at my table -- especially if that new player is a child under the age of ten who came to my table at a convention with their parents and then fell in love with that dragon art.

Hmm

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

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Honestly when we saw Ija we had a real discussion about whether or not to build her a pregen because we know kids are gonna love her and her dragon but we ultimately decided against it. You're not alone!

Envoy's Alliance *

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You can't really fix it for SoM, but you set up an expectation and then did not fulfill it. Please do NOT do this for future new classes.

The various box texts on page 33 imply to me that more-or-less fleshed out versions of Seltyiel and Ija exist. You give the two short descriptions of them, use full page art to lead into the relevant chapters, use the character art in the section, and drop them.

Don't give us a named character and then drop them on the floor.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

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Rakshara of the Flame wrote:

You can't really fix it for SoM, but you set up an expectation and then did not fulfill it. Please do NOT do this for future new classes.

The various box texts on page 33 imply to me that more-or-less fleshed out versions of Seltyiel and Ija exist. You give the two short descriptions of them, use full page art to lead into the relevant chapters, use the character art in the section, and drop them.

Don't give us a named character and then drop them on the floor.

Since the beginning of Pathfinder, every class has had an associated iconic character, and I expect this to continue going forward. The point of these characters is for the design team is to provide a storytelling point, an example of a character using the class, and to add to our canon. We also provide more of their backstory via our web fiction, with the Meet the Iconics and Iconic Encounters series(es...). We are not by any means "dropping them on the floor."

So if your concern is setting expectations, let me set the expectation that every class will have an associated iconic, and that we will not be fully statting these characters out in the future.

2/5 5/5 *****

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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

And as is often the case, its important to separate what Paizo needs (Iconics) for illustrative and narrative uses, from what Organized Play needs (pre-gens) for gaming. I can easily imagine places where the illustrative/narration side wouldn't want to be completely pinned down on a concrete build.

Paizo Employee 5/55/5 * Organized Play Coordinator

Eric Nielsen wrote:
And as is often the case, its important to separate what Paizo needs (Iconics) for illustrative and narrative uses, from what Organized Play needs (pre-gens) for gaming. I can easily imagine places where the illustrative/narration side wouldn't want to be completely pinned down on a concrete build.

This is also part of the reason they have historically been such a mess: everyone wants to weigh in. If they are holding a piece of equipment we have to give them that equipment (and the ability to use it, if it doesn't come natively), the editorial side has opinions about what abilities the Iconic can and should have...honestly it would be easier if we didn't stat the Iconics specifically, but that presents its own problems.

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Alas, it will more than likely be Quite Some Time before I have enough bandwidth to try and figure out Magus or Summoner that isn't some 'cookie cutter' 'accepted wisdom' build from all the stratguides.

ie, I'm one of the people that likes using pregens for ideas of how a character is supposed to be built (more or less) and then a springboard to creating my own.

Of course, I've been wrong before, and I did not anticipate being as taken with Witch as I am -- even more-so than Oracle from APG.

Second Seekers (Jadnura) 1/5 5/55/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

It doesn't count as a proper official pregen that you can use in lieu of actual characters, but if anyone's interested, I made unofficial pregen stats for Veerkea the iconic nanocyte at levels 1, 4, and 8. It could, in theory, be used in the one-shots and similar adventures where you can bring your own characters, or any way you want in home games to get a taste of what nanocytes are like!
(With apologies to Seltiyel.)


GUNSLINGER L1 PREGEN WANTED: Panicking please help: 40+year player; I have the remastered 2e but Gunslinger isn't in there. My son is starting the Alkenstar series very very soon.

Can anyone create or link a L1 pregen to help me get started. I have access to Guns & Gear but need help. Wishing for a charismatic gunslinger, like Sam Coe from Starfield. Can anyone please craft a pregen for me?

Kindly,
The infamous, PaxVeritas, yes I'm back.
Thanks!

Dark Archive 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
PaxVeritas wrote:

GUNSLINGER L1 PREGEN WANTED: Panicking please help: 40+year player; I have the remastered 2e but Gunslinger isn't in there. My son is starting the Alkenstar series very very soon.

Can anyone create or link a L1 pregen to help me get started. I have access to Guns & Gear but need help. Wishing for a charismatic gunslinger, like Sam Coe from Starfield. Can anyone please craft a pregen for me?

Kindly,
The infamous, PaxVeritas, yes I'm back.
Thanks!

Welcome back, I guess?

Anyway, I flagged this to be moved to the advice forum... Since this doesn't seem to have anything to do with OrgPlay I think that might be a better place for it.

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