Healing Plaster - doesn't seem to work with Battle Medicine


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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This was a cantrip I was excited about and watching the SoM livestream also made it seem great. Unfortunately after reading it, it seems that it will not work with Battle Medicine. Would love for somebody to show me I'm wrong, or to see it as part of the errata to work with feats like this (or similar ones in the future). As it stands I guess I'll just go back to buying and wearing healers tools :(

Would be nice if it just used language saying that it acts as healers tools and you may made a medicine check as part of casting the spell.


Invictus Fatum wrote:

This was a cantrip I was excited about and watching the SoM livestream also made it seem great. Unfortunately after reading it, it seems that it will not work with Battle Medicine. Would love for somebody to show me I'm wrong, or to see it as part of the errata to work with feats like this (or similar ones in the future). As it stands I guess I'll just go back to buying and wearing healers tools :(

Would be nice if it just used language saying that it acts as healers tools and you may made a medicine check as part of casting the spell.

It only works for specific medicine actions [Administer First Aid or Treat Wounds] and Battle Medicine is specifically neither of them. I'm not sure why it would be too powerful to just act like the tools, but it'd take errata to change it [or Dm fiat]. IMO, the cantrip is a space saver as you have a limit on worn tools: if you're only wearing healers tools then it's just saving some cash.

Liberty's Edge

It seems to be aimed directly at Natural Medicine users.


It specifically doesn't work with Natural Medicine because it says Medicine checks to Treat Wounds.


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Guntermench wrote:
It specifically doesn't work with Natural Medicine because it says Medicine checks to Treat Wounds.

I actually don't think this is a conflict, at least not a cut and dry one. Natural Medicine doesn't state that you Must use Nature instead of Medicine or make Treat Wounds a specific use of the Nature Skill. It allows you to substitute your nature training for medicine on treat wounds if you want to.

So when your character goes to treat wounds with their healing plaster, they are using the Medicine skill first, then substituting the Nature skill using the feat. I don't see a reason why such a check wouldn't be still considered a "medicine" check for the purposes of using healing plaster.

If Natural Medicine stated that Treat Wounds is now a Trained use of the Nature skill for you, then I could see the conflict. But Treat Wounds is always a use of the Medicine skill, even if you are substituting your Nature skill for Medicine in said check. At least how I view it.

Edit: I'd even say that the wording of Healer's Tools agrees with me.

Healer's Tools wrote:
This kit of bandages, herbs, and suturing tools is necessary for Medicine checks to Administer First Aid, Treat Disease, Treat Poison, or Treat Wounds. If you wear your healer's tools, you can draw and replace them as part of the action that uses them.

You wouldn't argue that Natural Medicine makes Treat Wounds a Nature skill, and thus make you ineligible to use Healer's Tools for that check, right? Since that would make Natural Medicine unusable in the first place. So why argue that Healing Plaster doesn't work with Natural Medicine?


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Natural Medicine gives you the option to use Nature instead of Medicine for Treat Wounds, and gives you a bonus if you're using fresh ingredients to use Nature.

Healing Plaster says it makes a plaster you can use to specifically make a Medicine check to Treat Wounds or Administer First Aid.

This is just like Acrobatic Performer, which gives you the option to use Acrobatics instead of Performance for the Perform action, but Battledancer specifically calls for a Performance check to Perform so you couldn't use Acrobatics to Perform to gain Panache as a Battledancer.

You can't use Healing Plaster and use Nature to Treat Wounds because the Healing Plaster doesn't just say you Treat Wounds. It says it works when you use Medicine to Treat Wounds.


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Does it break anything to allow it? No, probably not. But RAW it doesn't seem to be allowed.


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Guntermench wrote:

Natural Medicine gives you the option to use Nature instead of Medicine for Treat Wounds, and gives you a bonus if you're using fresh ingredients to use Nature.

Healing Plaster says it makes a plaster you can use to specifically make a Medicine check to Treat Wounds or Administer First Aid.

This is just like Acrobatic Performer, which gives you the option to use Acrobatics instead of Performance for the Perform action, but Battledancer specifically calls for a Performance check to Perform so you couldn't use Acrobatics to Perform to gain Panache as a Battledancer.

You can't use Healing Plaster and use Nature to Treat Wounds because the Healing Plaster doesn't just say you Treat Wounds. It says it works when you use Medicine to Treat Wounds.

So then how do Healer's Tools work for Natural Medicine treat wounds checks? Do they not?

If they don't, how do you use Natural Medicine to Treat Wounds?

The same wording is used for both Healing Plaster and Healer's Tools I'll note. So if one works and the other doesn't, why?

Healing Plaster is simply a substitution for Healer's Tools in the same way that Natural Medicine is simply a substitution of Nature for Medicine in a specific check.

Nothing I see stops any combination of these from working with each other.


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Huh.

Well okay then.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Invictus Fatum wrote:

This was a cantrip I was excited about and watching the SoM livestream also made it seem great. Unfortunately after reading it, it seems that it will not work with Battle Medicine. Would love for somebody to show me I'm wrong, or to see it as part of the errata to work with feats like this (or similar ones in the future). As it stands I guess I'll just go back to buying and wearing healers tools :(

Would be nice if it just used language saying that it acts as healers tools and you may made a medicine check as part of casting the spell.

I feel like that was always going to be the best move long term. A cantrip slot is too valuable to waste, especially when it jus taave savs you a bit of bulk/weight, and primal casters aren't very equipment reliant.

I think this an "oh crap we messed up" spell. Sometimes you've already left town or spent all your coin on a new character and you realize you forgot to buy Healer's Tools. At which point being able to prepare this is dandy.

Edit: even if it worked with Battle Medicine, it would cost another action.

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