Arcanaton

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Goblin Squad Member. 111 posts. 1 review. No lists. 1 wishlist.



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Hello everyone, while recently reading a post by Mark Seifter in regards to the large overlap the Arcane spell list has with others, specifically this part

Mark Seifter wrote:
Arcane is essentially the main culprit for overlap, in part because the wizard is extremely greedy (or perhaps envious is a better word for it) when it comes to demanding spells be on the arcane list, given there are eight schools of magic and the wizard specialist in a given school demands a place at the table, even for schools that mostly match an essence that isn't part of arcane.

I was struck with a thought and wanted to see how it resonated with others. Rather than forcing spells to fit where they thematically might not (given the essences associated with arcane magic), why not create spells which rely on the traits of arcane magic to ape those spells as best they can? I've always viewed the arcane spell list as one of innovation, filled with spells that are largely the result of tireless research and development. To me, the idea that a necromancer (specifically the specialist wizard) unable to touch upon the realms of spiritual and vital, who would finesse or brute force the material and mental essences to get an approximate effect seems so appropriate to me. Now I'm not suggesting removing all overlap, I think it's fair for those spells which have traditionally been iconic to arcane casters but which don't well represent their essences remain in place (perhaps as examples of true breakthroughs rather than base mimicry and emulation).

So even writing this, I know that the likelihood of this occurring sits only slightly above nil. I'm honestly more interested with seeing the extent to which this thought could encourage future works rather than forcing such a massive undertaking as would be required to conform to it for the Core book. Even beyond that, I'm interested in hearing what other people think about this idea, and for those who find it intriguing enough to run with it, how they would emulate some of poor fit spells with the essences available.


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I think it would be beneficial for those trying to assist for you to perhaps post some of the other items you've set up for the others so that there is a solid baseline for what you'd consider to be “cool bells and whistles.” Beyond that, it would also be useful for you to describe the monk a bit. Obviously he's a strong combatant and such and you want to avoid adding to that, but where does he stand in regards to social skills (and does that realm even matter the him or the player), and/or general utility?


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Perhaps I'm missing something here, but as I go over the text I'm not seeing it as an indication of being pulled away to complete a secret project so much as stepping away (and arguably down) from his position in general. The bit about a future AP reads more to me as, “although I (for the time being) will not be developing adventure paths, I still have one in mind that I'd still like to see done some day.” While I'd like to believe this is more than simply a heads-up, I don't know that that is the case.


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I've played one successful evil character, a NE Gnome Souldrinker devoted to Apollyon in a campaign that went mythic. She had three real passions, harvesting souls, inflicting diseases, and collecting pretty dresses. She may have also had a mild to severe case of ADHD (as well as a tanked wisdom score). I'd like to say that I was responsible and never gave the group any reason to want her dead or removed, but that would be a lie. Don't get me wrong, she was beloved (well as beloved as a little walking plague can be), but it was no secret that the group was simply waiting to see if she'd do something stupid enough to get herself killed so that they wouldn't have to take care of her “for the good of all” down the line (they actually told her, on multiple occasions, “we're probably going to have to kill you when this is all over,” to which she'd always reply with a sweet, “ok”). She even managed to cause a great plague which ravaged much of the central Riverlands (as well as another plague which ravaged a portion of Nidal) which, for a party of neutral characters, left a somewhat poor taste in their mouths.

Now, you may be wondering, why would anyone possibly put up with her? Simple, she was adorable. Seriously, outside of doing some of the most heinous things imaginable, her demeanor was always simple and sweet. Her tendency of getting distracted by shiny things and being completely blunt (she maybe told three lies the entire time she was around), endeared her to the group and elevated her into a sort of mascot. Now, while sweet, it isn't as if she didn't actively pursue her interests. She would just have the courtesy to ask if it was OK to wipe out a particular village with a series of virulent diseases. It got to the point that the group would just say no and play it off as, “D'aww... that's our lil' plague.” Really, it ended up working out well for everyone. The party got someone who was willing to get their hands dirty, and she, in turn, was able to harvest the souls of the things the group would defeat (which gave her the cash to afford her ridiculous dress obsession). They even had occasion to allow her to inflict diseases with impunity (though their hesitance down the line ended up causing some friction).


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Though similar, the differences are there. The mythic ability allows for a no questions asked counter, but the arcanist must first identify the spell (admittedly arbitrary at higher levels, but certainly something she can fail early on), must use a spell at least one level higher unless it matches a prepared spell, and has to make a dispel check as if countering with dispel magic (another potential fail point).

I'd certainly still argue then that the mythic ability is deserving of the title of "mythic", but the exploit is not.


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I'm not really sure why the monk wouldn't be able to make a normal full-attack action (giving up a standard and their move). Really, as a swift action, nothing is preventing them from using the ability after they've already taken a full-attack action. I suppose enforcing the no full-attack after they've used Slow Time keeps them from gaining a pseudo-pounce once or twice a day, but its not something I'd bother with.


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I wish you and yours the best. Your work has been a font of enjoyment for me since before I knew it was you I aught to thank, and your sarcastic wit has kept me entertained since I first found myself drawn to the boards. While I don't mean to belittle the efforts and talents of everyone else at Paizo, yours has been the shiny headed face that came to mind whenever the company came to mind, and your presence will be missed.


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It's only a matter of time before Owen is a part of every Pathfinder product producing company out there. I suppose this kind of makes him the Skynet of the RPG world. Super excited about the Advanced Bestiary and other possibilities. Congratulations.


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This depends. Remember that she only creates supernatural (darkvision proof) darkness if the surroundings were already at least dim to begin with, and what she can‘t see through the party can‘t see through either.

That being said, casting deeper darkness is not something that’s going to break invisibility, so as an ambush tactic she could stealth to the group, observe them for a little time, then hit them with deeper darkness as her surprise round standard action, effectively blinding them all. With any luck she will then go soon after and be able to lay a web spell down. Since they are blinded they can only move half there speed w/o making an acrobatics check (something that’s taking a -4 due to being effectively blinded anyways), when web goes down, save or not, you now have a 40’ diameter difficult terrain, so they really aren’t moving at all. If say their casters do fail the save, then it is going to be pretty hard for them to get to dispelling anything being grappled and all. If they were caught in a narrow corridor, the Drider is then free to blast away with lightning bolts until something either makes it out, at which point she can either flee very successfully (invisibility helps) or attempt to take them down.

These tactics are assuming there is but a single lone Drider. A pair of Drider could not only perform there ambush all in the surprise round, they could also do it twice in the same day. The important thing to consider is that the Drider is intelligent. She knows she won’t stand up to an entire group of stalwart adventurers without evening the odds (or tipping them entirely into her favor). She knows that even a successful hit and run ambush like the one described above is apt to drain significant resources from them, perhaps leaving them vulnerable to other, brutish denizens of her locale.


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Actually, it seems that pugilist's receive no benefit from TWF, as per their Iron Fist ability. If both have a strength modifier of 4 than the average damage would be the same between the fist and a greatsword, but that's without taking into account how crits interact with the two, nor the increased critical range of the GS.

Really, it would be no different than wielding a heavy mace (besides the inability to TWF presented by the pugilist).

All this being said, if you wouldn’t penalize a player wielding a greatsword doing his 2d6+6 round after round, there is no reason to penalize the player who had to take the feat to do equal damage (and who will be quickly outpaced by the two handed weapon wielder anyways)


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In case your GM is a real stickler, the rules on supernatural abilties can also be found in the CRB on pages 183, 221, and 555.

(It is found under standard actions on 183)


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If you can persuade your GM there is a trait, optimistic gambler, that allows your morale bonuses to persist an extra 1d4 rounds. Certainly isn't going to be as effective as raging vitality, but it does at least give you the potential to survive.