I'm working on revamping the Medium a little, focusing on the spirit powers. By which I mean I am trying to make the not-Champion spirits more interesting and closer to the Champion power-wise (and maybe fix some minor issues I have with the Champion spirit, if I can find a way to do so without it getting too powerful).
Thing is, I'm kind of stuck and I was hoping this friendly forum might be willing and able to offer some suggestions?
The main goal is basically to make each spirit functional at its role. Something viable as daily spirit and able to fill the appropriate gap in a party during emergencies or as supplement to another chr, but obviously not on par with a dedicated build.
A side-goal, for extra points, is to have all Lesser powers be scaling (all but Champion + Guardian already are, even if the Marshall and Trickster don't get as much as Archmage/Hierophant) and also promote some kind of action (most do aside from Champion + Guardian... again. Trickster's a bit iffy, depending on player choices). One relevant to the spirit's "style", of course.
I'd like to change as few things as possible, and where possible I'd prefer to steal abilities from elsewhere rather than reinvent the wheel.
Looking at the spirits, I see the following issues:
For the Archmage,
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it feels like a combination of endurance and limited spell selection. Slower progression + fewer spells per day relative the wiz/sor it's supposed to emulate.
Something like switching out the Intermediate "free spell" ability for something like Kinetic Blast might alleviate both? It provides a scaling damage ability, thus freeing up spells known + per day for utility & defensive stuff.
The Supreme power has a bit of an issue in that it's a one-and-done. So there's room for some buffing here, too. Possibly like the Marshall, by having a lower power get a buff if you have the Supreme one. Or maybe grant bonus mm feat with cost reduction or something?
Champion's
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only real issue is the Lesser ability does effectively nothing. Who is going to run around with a weapon they can only use 1/6 days? I also feel like martial builds are pretty feat-dependent, and it only gets bonus feats at lvl 17... Tricky part is that overall it has about the right level of balance, at least as far as I can tell. So I don't know if there's really anything that can be done about this, while still leaving the 2 "core" powers (bonus atk + pounce) alone... Anyone have any thoughts?
When it comes to the Guardian
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I feel like re-doing the whole thing is just plain easiest. Lesser has the same problem as Champion's; who carries around a spare armor for some days? Shield I can imagine. Those are easy enough to get no penalty without proficiency. Intermadiate (DR) is about the only power that feels worthwhile, to be honest. Maybe Greater (Sudden Block) works okay if the others can be buffed enough? Supreme is... cute? But compared to "cast Miracle/Wish 1/day" ignoring a single attack feels lackluster.
Tentatively I'm thinking something like [some kind of active power] + "spirit bonus? vs enemies that have attacked allies since last turn" (like the Spire Totem Rage Power) for Lesser...
Keep Intermediate. Not sure what to do about Greater... Keep? Buff? Replace?
And maybe either Mind Blank or Ymeri's Pyre for the Supreme ability, possibly with some restrictions like "spend 1 Influence to halve duration of effect"
The Hierophant
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is pretty straightforward. It's too "heal-centric" (owing to the legacy of Clerics past), but otherwise the main issues are lack of usefulness and the Greater power being useless. So buffing the Greater by replacing it with something better would probably go a long way. Supreme power has the same issue as the Archmage's, with being one-and-done, though. I just have no idea what to replace the Greater with that feels cleric-y but is interesting/fun and balanced... This is one I really hope the forums can help me out with... Please?
Now, the Marshall
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looks pretty okay aside from the action economy of the Intermediate and the very limited uses/day for the Lesser (until you hit lvl 17 and get Supreme). Greater is a bit dull ("here, have my turn") but the ability to use it as a Swift action makes it not entirely boring. I feel like some kind of teamwork thing or perhaps "create & take advantage of difficult terrain/obstacles" would possibly be more interesting... The goal is tactical fighter with team buffs & face abilities (because Charisma based spirit bonus).
But I can't really think of where to fit any of that in, because nothing really strikes me as chaff that can be cut. Anyone else have any thoughts?
Finally, the Trickster
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mostly lacks damage, I feel. Lesser is pretty decent, if a bit uninspired (and requires either knowing what the day will hold, choosing generically useful skills, or lucky picks). Intermediate... I assume they didn't give regular sneak atk because Supreme would then give you lots of natural atk to go with it, but it feels outright insufficient. The free flat-footed is nice, though. Greater is very situational - can be great, can be "yay, I got Haste, which I already cast on myself so..." (I can see interpreting it to extending your own duration, at least). Supreme... Yeah, picking d20 1/day is nice, but at will Greater Polymorph is pretty darn useful.
So really, I'm thinking replace the Intermediate with something like a sensible Vital Strike that adds +2d8 dmg instead of being based off weapon dmg. Maybe scaling with additional powers, for +4d8/+6d8 with Grt/Sup, or just with level. And add spirit bonus to atk roll, for much needed accuracy with that kind of atk. Or is that too little damage? The build isn't really about damage, but it really needs something it can do in combat until it gets Supreme at lvl 17...
One thing I've pondered for both the Archmage and Hierophant is restricting their Lessers to picking a Domain/Bloodline and getting their spells. This is a serious nerf, but would greatly reduce bookkeeping... So I'm torn. They need more power, but also the whole class needs less bookkeeping :/
So, yeah, those are my thoughts. I'm mostly looking for ideas for the Guardian and Hierophant, but I welcome any and all suggestions to help me fix at least this corner of the class. There's plenty people here with better ideas about balance, so feel free to offer insights into things I got wrong :p
I'm trying to keep things as compatible as possible with existing stuff, which is why I'm just swapping out spirit powers instead of like re-making the spirits to have 5 spirit powers or something.
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(I feel the class should have either been built around picking one spirit, or offered better support for chrs switching between spirits. Like the Legendary Influence feats are pretty necessary because you don't get any flex feats or anything... Not to mention the near complete lack of flexibility during a given day until the very highest levels... But that stuff is a whole other mess for another day :p )
So, I thought it a pretty straightforward question - What happens if you stagger someone in the middle of their turn?
Except I can't find anything that really gives an answer...
The specific situation I'm trying to answer is what happens if you use Intercept Charge to position yourself so you get an AoO when the enemy charges past, and then use that AoO for Diabolic Style to stagger the opponent (assuming they fail their save)?
But really, the basic mechanics for staggering someone in the middle of their turn is what I'm unclear about.
Basically:
1 - Let's start with what happens when it's just a regular move + attack? (the AoO happening during the move, before the standard action attack has begun)
2 - And in the full scenario, what happens to the charge? Is it broken? Or unaffected because the action is already started?
3 - What if you stagger someone in the middle of a full-attack, does the attack complete or is it aborted?
3.II - Does it matter if it's after the first attack or a later one? (since you can choose whether it's a standard attack or full-attack at that point, right?)
Bonus question, B: The non-lethal damage from Diabolic Style is instead of the regular unarmed strike damage, have I understood that right?
For reference:
Diabolic Style wrote:
Benefit: While using this style, you can make an attack of opportunity with an unarmed strike to deliver a humiliating swat to the target. If you hit the target, you inflict 1 point of nonlethal damage and the target must succeed at a Will saving throw (DC = 10 + half your level + your Charisma modifier) or become staggered for 1 round.
Intercept Charge wrote:
Benefit: When an opponent charges your ally with this feat, as an immediate action you can move up to your speed toward any square in the path of the charge. If you end your movement in the path of the charge, the opponent must stop when it becomes adjacent to you and then attack you instead of your ally. Your movement from using this feat counts toward your movement on your next turn.
Hello, forum! Long-time reader, first time poster (as the cliché goes).
I'm making a low-lvl chr, and I'm sort of stuck for how to create the build (and some rp fluff). Basically, I have a concept, but lack the system mastery to implement it mechanically. Which is what I'm hoping to find some kind souls willing to help with ^^
While looking for ideas for my last chr, a hinyasi brawler, I discovered the Iron Caster concept. If anyone is unfamiliar, it's basically a fighter who uses Item Mastery feats for some magic (Thread). That chr was a pig herder out searching for a stolen griffin in a low-fantasy Viking-themed setting (it's a long story), so he was unfortunately completely wrong for making one.
The core idea for the chr is a young kid enamored with knights in shining armor but is little more than the "city outskirts" equivalent to a street urchin. Being a curious sort, the kid ends up meeting an old veteran while exploring. Except the "old veteran" is actually a fey, who has decided it would be funny to train the kid as a joke (not necessarily on the kid).
So basically... a naive youth who blends "romanticized ideal of knight" with "intentionally incorrect teachings of a trickster pretending to be a knight".
This will mostly be relevant to the rp fluff, but if there are ways to hint at it in the mechanics that would be neat.
Now, to the mechanics!
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I'm building the chr at lvl 2, and I expect the campaign to end no later than the low double-digits (quite possibly by lvl 9, even). So anything important should come online no later than lvl 5-ish (part of why I'm doing Iron Caster, as that is mostly online by 6).
The thing with Iron Caster is that it's not very "build intensive", so there's a lot of open stuff. Feats, especially.
Stats are 20-point buy.
Aside from going Iron Caster, I haven't really set anything in stone yet. So I'm pretty flexible with stuff like class, race (anything "likely to be found in/near a human-dominated city" goes, others need special approval), traits, feats... Anything I've missed? :p
Some general notes:
*Low-to-mid optimization level.
*It's a home game, so pretty much anything PF1 from the AoN should be fine.
*Iron Caster requires Adv. Weapon Training to function, so 4 levels of Weapon Master looks like it's going to be the quickest path. I'd appreciate alternatives, though; provided they don't delay things by more than 1-2 lvls ^^
*Medium or Heavy armor is a must, given the "knight" theme.
And, of course, a wishlist:
*Aiming for a mobile fighting style (I'm thinking one-handed sword with shield or possibly shielded gauntlet style for off-hand). I'm a bit torn between Spring Atk, Vital Strike, and Battle Dancer Brawler Rolling Fury builds.
*I'd love some kind of adaptable Teamwork thing, since I'm already flexing into combat feats and being a battlefield commander feels appropriate for the concept. Cavalier can't use Martial Flex feats with Tactician, so that's right out (unless I've missed an archetype?). But something like the Holy Tactician's Battlefield Presence, except which doesn't require Lawful alignment, would obviously be awesome. I'm assuming the reason I haven't found anything anywhere near as good is because it doesn't exist? :p
*If I can avoid Brawler, that'd be great (last chr was one). But a 1-2 lvl dip into Battle Dancer for Rolling Flurry & Martial Flex does seem pretty hard to beat >.<
I was thinking of using Occultist with the martial panoply to get pseudo-full-BAB and a bit of flexing (as a way around Brawler), but I'd much rather not have spellcasting (I do like its focus powers, though...)
Exemplar Brawler sadly doesn't mix with the Battle Dancer archetype, but might be an option for a Vital Strike build? The Teamwork stuff would come online really late, though :/
For stats, high Con for Iron Caster aside, I'm thinking "light focus" on Int and Dex? Bit of Cha, too, for that fey flavour? Just enough Str to get by, and Wis as dump stat (reflecting naiveté and curiosity-driven nature)?
The low Will shouldn't be too big an issue at the relevant levels, especially if I end up shoring it up with Occultist (or another good Will class).
Feat-wise, I really have no idea where to go. There's just too many possibilities :p
So... Does anyone have any suggestions on how to make this build happen? For example, individual abilities that would be a good fit? In particular with the requirement of things being online at pretty low levels...
Moving on to the fluffy side, I'm looking for inspiration to create a facsimile of a "code of conduct" except... not paladin-like at all (at least if you look closely at it).
Spoiler:
Ideally something inspired by fey (in a broad sense, not restricted to only Paizo's interpretation). I'm aiming for something with hints of Chaotic from the fey mixed with (idealized) Good from the kid's own ideas; probably a bit of blue-and-orange morality that comes across as self-contradictory (e.g. "deceive all you want, but always honor your word").
While I have a clear idea of the general behaviour that should result from it, so far I've only been able to draft it into a couple of fairly vague concrete points in terms of the "code" itself.
My ideas thus far:
*Appreciate cleverness, even when it's used against you (especially if it's funny)
*Indulge curiosity/Always ask questions (this is mostly to aid in moving the game, tbh)
*Value freedom and liberty - your own and others'
*If you freely agreed to the terms, abide by them
That's about it so far... Something in opposition to taking orders feels fitting, but I'm not sure what that might be.
Anyway, that's what I've got so far. I realize it's not very much, but I'm really hoping it's enough of a foundation and general direction that I can some suggestions to help make something of it.
The goal roughly being a nimble warrior with a bit of magic, though not outright spellcasting, and driven by ideals that aren't what one would expect of a knight.
I'm finding the greatest challenge to be the low level nature of the circumstances, since there are so many options I'm not familiar with out there. So I'm hoping the Mastery of the Boards can help me find solutions that work at more relevant levels ^^
