We do have a plan for what's going on, and Paizo has approved at least the generalities, if not yet all the particular plots we want to tie to it. We're planning to treat it as one of our lore mysteries that will guide our development of PvE content over time.
So it seems we shall have a reason for the mark, and one that Paizo will stamp as acceptable lore when complete.
When considering character back-story, my question is - for how long has the mark been doing its thing with our characters?
Here's why I ask. When considering our character's back-story, I doubt most of us are envisioning that they burst into existence on day one of EE (unless that's the plan mentioned above by Stephen). Certainly the local geography, and at least Thornkeep, precede our character's arrival.
From a back-story, lore-ish point of view, I'm assuming most of us are planning at least a little history of where our characters were prior to appearing in Thornkeep.
So if our back-stories include having been in the River Kingdoms before that moment, how long have we been immortal? Is this a recent event, or could this have been happening for years, centuries, etc.?
I know if we say that the mark has been in effect for any lengthy period of time, it begs the question of our lack of skills. But then, even if the mark hasn't begun its resurrectionist work until recently, unless we really did just burst into existence with the start of EE, any amount of back-story begs that same question. It's one bit of disbelief I can suspend as a RPer.
Lam asked me in a PM to remove him from the Guide Program listing. I asked him to please post that he wished to be removed so that I don't appear to be deciding who is and is not in the program.
I'm not sure where the publicly **** himself came from. I did not ask that he reveal why he wished to be removed - that's his business, and I don't see why it should be anyone else's.
Let me clarify to avoid future issues. For anyone else on the list or thinking of joining, if at a later date you decide for whatever reason that you no longer wish to participate, that's fine. I'll take no offense to it and I don't see why anyone else should either. This is simply a community service (like many that will hopefully pop up for PFO). If you have time and desire to participate, do so. However, no one should feel like they're bound to this. If you decide, after signing up, that you don't have time, desire, whatever, that's also up to you. I don't see why anyone would hold that decision against you or seek to read more into it.
Let me also state to Lan and the community that my attempt to keep the Guide Program as transparent as possible has been the norm since the original post. For instance, when PMed by people asking to be added, I've asked that they post their desire, so this doesn't become a PM/behind-the-scenes organization. Likewise, if you wish to be removed, I've asked the same, both for the transparency of the program and to avoid other possible issues. Unfortunately, given how politically heated this game has been even before EE, I have no intention of putting myself in the position of seeming like I'm deciding who is and isn't in the Guide Program. I don't believe Lam was attempting to place me in that position, but setting precedents that lead to being placed there are something I'll continue to avoid.
Though we're still too far out to be gathering exacting information from prospective Guides, there is a topic I would like to kick around. I stressed in the original post that Guides are not expected to be experts about every aspect of the game. However, in an effort to network Guides so as to better help our "clients", it would help to know in what ways each Guide is interested in assisting new players.
Here's the basic idea:
1. There are a number of different ways (let's call them Categories of Service) that Guides could help new players.
2. I would like Guides to specify which categories they wish to cover within the Guide Program. This information could be listed on a Guide Program website and made available to all Guides.
3. If a Guide is assisting a client, but finds that the client needs something they cannot provide (i.e. it's not their category), they could check the listing, and via the Guide Program Company (I'm hoping this will be a thing), they could hook the client up with another Guide who can better service them.
Categories of Service:
Greeter - requires basic level knowledge of the game, starter town building locations and feature usage, and a willingness to be that friendly face welcoming new players to the game. I would expect most (if not all) Guides would fit into this category. Certainly, any experienced player could fill this role, but Guides are players who are willing to set aside chunks of their own playing time for this effort. They will also be armed with their network of contacts for further assisting new players, which not every regular player may have.
Companion - a friendly tour guide of the immediate outlying area around the starter town, to help explain node harvesting, provide tips on initial PvE, etc.
Librarian - a Guide who knows far more in-depth knowledge about specific game mechanics, skill, etc. For instance, if someone wants to learn more about the advantages of a particular "class" build, these are the people to send them to. We can get far more granular on specific subject area expertise per librarian later (e.g. "Bob's the rogue guy...if they want to know rogue stuff, send them to Bob.").
Escorts - a Guide willing to spend the overland travel time to escort new players to participating settlements. In that the Guide Program will not be providing "guards", "participating settlements" are those that do provide guards for a safe round trip. The Guide is present to ensure that all players are aware that this is a party of new players. I know several have posed concerns on how this might be abused, but we can work out those logistics/rules/etc. in another thread devoted to just that topic. For the Guide, especially for longer trips, this is a considerable devotion of time, so just how often such trips take place is yet to be determined. It's possible that multiple settlements might be scheduled for the same "Guide Tour" - so new players wishing to visit all participating settlements in the Northwest might be pooled into one group on a given day. This will also need to be tweaked when other starting towns come into play and Guides start associating with a particular one based on geography, alignment, etc. Again, more on this later.
If you have other possible Categories of Service, questions about the ones suggested, etc., feel free to post.
Actually I think the biggest killer to RP is discussion/insult contests about role playing. On the one hand you have the RP police trying to impose their will on how others do or don't it, and on the other you have the jerks belittling those who attempt it.
Politics and Religion are too often subjects of passion rather than reason, and as such grow passionate and unreasonable awfully quickly.
Being,
You and I have been around MMORPG's long enough to know this can be the case. Hopefully PFO can be large enough, and inclusive enough, to allow for all different play styles without anyone trying to tell others that their way of playing is wrong. Hopefully.
I'll be IC (in-character) pretty much all the time with any character. Tells, party, Team Speak, etc. are all handy for the OOC (Out-Of-Character) stuff without needing to break character.
I will also be spending quite a bit of time attempting to start several RP initiatives to try to wrap the pragmatic "playing the game" activities in a RP feel to help promote more RP in-game.
It falls to we who have enjoyed it in many other games, and know that it is possible in this kind of game, to model it for those who have yet to discover the same enjoyment. Nothing helps promote RP like seeing others already doing it.
In an effort to add clarity to how the Empire of Xeilias intends to represent itself as a Lawful Evil entity, The Empire provides the PFO community with the following article written by Guurzak.
--------------------------------------
The Empire of Xeilias is evil.
While this sentence is true, it's very incomplete and misleading without further context. A much more useful statement is this:
The Empire of Xeilias is High-Reputation Lawful Evil.
What does this mean?
High-reputation characters do not attack neutrals unprovoked. We generally limit our aggression to Hostiles, such as war and feud targets, Attackers and Criminals, and committed members of enemy NPC factions. Low-rep "content" characters may also be targets of aggression. If you're not on our naughty list, you're perfectly safe unless you're lurking around somewhere you shouldn't be during our vulnerability window. Xeilias is firmly committed to positive gameplay.
Lawful characters keep their bargains, honor their contracts, and obey the laws. We can be trusted to guard your caravans; we can be trusted not to rob them. Many of the behaviors that worry players who hear "evil" are not evil at all, but chaotic, and we emphatically reject crime and chaos as anathema to our ideals. When you trade with Xeilias you can be confident that the deal will be completed and the goods delivered exactly as promised, and when you visit a Xeilian settlement you should feel comfortable that you'll be able to buy, sell, and trade without having to worry about theft or murder on our streets.
Evil does not mean toxic. Evil does not mean RPK. Evil certainly doesn't mean that you need to worry about what might happen if you turn your back on us for a minute with a harvesting party in the field or an undefended tower with an open window. Evil means that IF you make us your enemies, we will visit assassins and necromancers and bloody screaming slaughter upon you the likes of which no good settlement can muster. But so long as you treat us as your neighbors, we are actually very good neighbors to have.
Think of Xeilias as very much along the lines of the Hellknights: very unpleasant if provoked, but otherwise, very useful allies, or safe traveling companions. You have nothing at all to fear from us... unless you deserve it. Avoid any 'deserving it', and you will find us excellent trading partners, reliable mercenaries, and very convenient friends to have.
With half the current settlement population playing North American times and half European, members of Kreuz Bernstein should have no lack of friends, nor things to do, regardless of their schedule.
Trade begins earlier with Kreuz Bernstein - K.B. merchants get in-game hours ahead of the competition to capture the best sales while others are still sleeping or at work.
Crafting production hums in Kreuz Bernstein - covering a wider range of play times, start and end times for crafting are staggered around the clock, so that K.B. is always cranking out product.
Adventure is always at hand in Kreuz Bernstein - work odd hours and always seem to miss the prime time for joining a party for PvE, PvP, or a little exploration? A wider time zone coverage ensures company.
With the addition of Kreuz Bernstein, the Empire is not only growing, but it now offers even more opportunities to be a part of something greater.
Leader of a smaller guild looking to ensure your members a place to call home...a place with doors to multiple training roles, coordinated trade, combat, and adventuring opportunities? Join one of the Empire of Xeilias' three settlements.
Being - I'm interested in discussing how we can attempt to avoid further fracturing of the community, partly by ceasing the continued, not-so-veiled insults made about certain members of that community. If that's only worth a crack about soap operas from one of the more intellectual members of this community, then so be it.
Nihimon - You certainly have the right to decide who you and yours wish to ally yourselves with. If you read back over my post, that was never the question. In-game has nothing to do with the point I'm making. In this most recent instance of jibes/assumptions/accusations/etc., it is about using the accord as a means of making disparaging comments about other players. I have no problem dealing with your not liking Callambea, Golgotha, or UNC as in-game settlements. I'm talking about players.
Painting signatories - which are players - as subversive without any proof in-game of subversive behavior seems like another attack on those players. Publicly posting that opinion allows you to spread your doubt of those signatory's sincerity to others who may not yet have met us to form their own opinion, may not know your personal grievances with us, etc. For something that was meant to be positive in nature (RA), this seems like a very poor way in which to use it on these forums.
So let us cut to the chase. As a player, you obviously don't like or trust us. We can live with that. I've dealt civilly with people I don't care for before - it's part of being a mature adult. So what can we do to reach some understanding of how we deal civilly with one another as players for the sake of the community?
There is not, and is no provision for there to ever be, an "official" membership list.
If that is so, why was the list ever created, posted, and updated as people declared their desire to join? Not only was there a list, but it was apparently important enough to create a second, more up-to-date list as outlined below:
Nihimon wrote:
Cheatle sent me a PM with a new list to track Roseblood Accord members, apparently I've missed a few before and the PFO Forums are getting so active, I often don't have enough time to do anything more than skim the threads looking for dev posts or posts from friends. That list has replaced the one I had been maintaining in Guild Recruitment & Helpful Links.
Here's the points I've been patiently trying to make with very straight forward language:
1. There was a list. This is important because...
2. According to Nihimon, at some point the list began to contain groups he felt were hostile to TEO and T7V and that they were joining only to subvert the Roseblood Accord. Apparently this is when he decided the Roseblood Accord had served its purpose and was no longer a "meaningful exercise."
3. Being from one of many groups that signed the Roseblood Accord, I would think that Callambea, Golgotha, and many other later signing groups might be curious if we are one of the supposed subverters and if the Accord we signed was already being deemed no longer meaningful.
Nihimon wrote:
I have no intention of starting another firestorm by answering that question. Whoever has eyes, let him see.
I'll start with the biblical sounding last portion. I can only assume this is meant to open readers' eyes to my devious machinations, but if the people you are appealing to have eyes, they'll notice I am not the one who questioned the integrity of Roseblood Accord signatories on a public forum, and then refused to back up those allegations with names. No community member should get away with making such accusations, and then hide behind supposed care for the harmony of the forums to avoid having to clarify such statements.
To the community and forum moderators:
In that my previous posts were not removed by Ms. Courts, I can only assume that the topic and contents of those posts were judged as being appropriate. I hope my above questions will be deemed likewise.
To the concern that this worthwhile topic might cause a "firestorm", to quote Ryan Dancey:
"Meaningful human interaction is often messy and painful. That's not a bug, that's a feature."
Though I am asking specific questions of individuals, I believe this topic has a far larger context - one that is quite important for the community and one that is long over due.
I figured Hobs would be working on how the guide program should function, what kind of central authority, repository, or consistency of service it should have, and the like.
How the guide Program will function is something we - the Guides - will discuss when we get closer to the need for our services. I do not plan to decide in isolation how the Guide Program should function. Though there will likely be some need for leadership, especially if we go the third Company route, I hope to have very few rules for "consistency of service", as you put it. The one unifying, "consistent" factor will be that Guides want to help new players. How they do that is dependent on their own time limitations, knowledge base, skills, etc.
Actually, it seems very similar to my interpretation of the RBA - we all want to help promote "positive gameplay", but I certainly don't want to be dictated to by anyone else as to what that needs to look like. If the RBA was meant to be a private club with specific rules for membership, and certain members being able to decide if you're being "positive enough," than that should have been in the description from the beginning.
I would agree with -Aet- Charlie...this might be a discussion better had on the RBA forums, especially since these have been used for very little else since Golgotha and Callambea signed the RBA.
Want to be part of something larger while retaining what makes you unique?
- Join the Empire of Xeilias.
Want to adventure in a dangerous world with the safety provided by "lots" of friends?
- Join the Empire of Xeilias.
Want to practice all those wonderful non-PvP skills, like harvesting and crafting and trading, while under the protection of those who love to PvP?
- Join the Empire of Xeilias.
Size definitely does matter. With size comes increased possibilities of different types of Companies, roles, niches, etc. that smaller, single settlements cannot provide given the limits of training and resources.
Membership in the Empire doesn't mean you will be lost among the masses. The empire is made richer by its diversity.
Rather, we simply have a larger canvas for you to pain your unique character, Company, or settlement portrait upon with along with us.
As much as I agree with the OP, and find games I used to play (mainly theme parks) just unpalatable anymore, everything I spend time on for PFO leading up to EE is quite enough to keep me busy. I have been doing some play-by-post things and some pre-launch writing about how Hobs gets to the the River Kingdoms...it's been sufficient to scratch the PFO itch.
Personally, I love commoner. In a medieval setting, most of us will be commoners (i.e. not nobility). I, for one, tend not to have my characters be the all important hero type. I like showing the potential of the common man rising to the challenge, not born to it.
As a title for Pathfinder, I think it makes sense. The Commoner roles of harvesting and refining are the jobs that many people (commoners being the many) would do - picking herbs, mining ore, curing hides, etc. It's the common jobs that keep the economic machine rolling forward. As Ryan has stated elsewhere, most players are likely to be engaged in some form of harvesting early on - most players, again making it a common/regular/most people are doing it kind of activity.
Did you, in your conversations with the Devs, learn what kind of upkeep it will require (coin, raw materials, etc.)?
If they know the required upkeep "items", I would think patrons might help with donations to ensure their favorite drinking hole does not disappear.
When I ran a community center in UO, I also had a charity fund that wealthy community members used to contribute to. The coin not only went to buying newbies needed items, but it purchased prizes for community events (archery competitions, horse races, festival events, etc.) that were run out of the community center. You'll find the community will be generous enough to help support an establishment if it benefits the community.
You might even consider a website. Such a site would afford you more space and functionality/features than the Tavern mechanics will likely be able to in-game, such as:
- your menu and prices
- your list of Tavern Services and possibly prices
- upcoming scheduled events (I can list a ton in another post)
- featured entertainment or "guest celebrity barkeep"
- message board (want adds, RP notes left, etc.)
- forums for suggestions for the tavern
- forums for RP stories that center around the Tavern and flesh out what our characters might be up to when we aren't "in-game".
It really just depends on how deep you want to go. Guild launch or other similar sites have all the features I've mentioned here, plus a shout box.
The one item from the above list that I'll flesh out a bit further - Tavern Services. You may find it profitable and also helpful to the community to have a number of services where your part in the deal is simply playing middle man - a nice, easily found location to hook up the real service provider and the customer. You simply charge a fee to the service provider for place of business or even advertising on your site, while also benefiting from the service customers coming to your Tavern and becoming a regular patrons. What those services are is an endless list. The thing to focus on is that Taverns aren't just for drinking and eating - they're focal points for networking. The more valuable you become as a spot for networking, the greater the asset you become for the community, and the more popular your Tavern will be in turn.
Half way through the Land Rush, there are well over 100 guilds still lacking the number to break the 33 settlement ceiling. Of those that have, quite a few still risk being jostled from hex to hex or removed all together with each passing week. We of the Empire of Xeilias would like to invite you to consider being part of something bigger and discover the benefits and security as part of the first declared nation.
Training:
Concerned that your single settlement may not offer all the types of training its members might want, or that if do not secure a settlement at all, that your members will be relegated to what the starter towns offer? Join the Empire of Xeilias and benefit from multiple settlement offerings. Also, only nations will unlock the very highest tiers of training when those skills become available. Don't hope you can afford your members what they deserve - ensure it.
Choices for Your Membership:
Are quite a few of your members planning on playing more than one character, but their alts don't really fit into your declared settlement theme? Running into the problem that getting their alts into the settlements that fits them better is met with concerns about them being a spy from your settlement? Being a member of the EoX opens up far more possibilities for your settlement's membership to explore alternate styles of settlement theme and RP.
Self-governance & Nation Building:
If your settlement joins the EoX, you retain your autonomy. How you govern your settlement is your business. Being part of this Empire does not mean you get absorbed or "assimilated". After all, diversity makes an Empire stronger.
However, being a part of a larger whole does come with some very important privileges. Your leader will have an equal seat on the Imperial High Counsel to help direct the course of the Empire. Too small to likely earn a settlement of your own? Bring your entire group to one of the EoX's current settlements with a proposition for creating your own sponsored or private company - keep your personal identity - but enjoy it within the security and privilege of the EoX.
As the Empire grows, captures towers, secures resources, creates points of interest and outposts, quells escalations, etc., being part of the Empire will grant you a level of success on all these fronts greater than any one settlement can manage by itself.
Security & Cooperation:
In a game of territorial competition, membership comes with not just a non-aggression agreement, but mutual defense, privileged trade agreements, coordinated resource sharing, etc. Everything your settlement currently needs to consider to ensure it's membership survival and prosperity in PFO is made all the more easier because you have more than allies - you have fellow empire members. Allies are fine, they're valuable, but when push comes to shove, being part of an Empire where each settlement's safety and prosperity is vital to the other Empire members is invaluable. In the EoX, we will have your back as if it were our own...because as members of the same Empire, it is.
Is Harvesting, Refining, Crafting, and/or Trade not your alt's occupation, but your first love?
Come to Callambrea!
Won in the first Land Rush, our settlement is carefully situated to be the premier trade hub of the River Kingdoms. Here is just a small list of advantages we can offer you and yours:
- Close to the road for daily commerce traffic
- Close to a starter town for fresh customers in need of their first gear
- Close to mountains for all the metals and stone you could want
- Close to woods for lumber and game
- Surrounded by PvE content for combat and valuable resources
Callambea will specialize in a well chosen menu of training choices, have the best refining and crafting facilities, and as a Lawful Neutral settlement, will cater to the widest range of clients and merchandise. If you dream of being a master craftsman or wealthy merchant, Callambea is the place to set up shop.
What might not know about Callambea...
- Callambea will house Corpus Aeternum, it's highly trained and experienced army. From home defense and harvesting operation protection to our strike force for up to full scale warfare, Corpus Aeternum has the might to ensure that the coin flows safely through Callambeas' gates.
- When Callambea's caravans set out, they do so under under guard of the Hounds of the Imperium - Callambeas crack mercenary corps. When confronted by the Hounds' warriors, bounty hunters and assassins, any bandits foolish enough to raid a Callambean caravan will truly wish they had pursued another line of work.
And then there's that Empire thing...
Being one of the settlements within the Empire of Xeilias, Callambea will benefit from its current sister settlement Golgotha. Not only will trade be further protected by Golgotha's rough and ready military, but from its extra resources, its hungry markets, and its access to the Emerald Spire for even more PvE content and specialized crafting materials.
And Northern Coalition Membership
Finally, being a part of the Northern Coalition, your harvesting and trade will not be disrupted by neighboring settlement members, since our nonaggression pact will keep you safe from the mischief of our more chaotic neighbors.
So whatever your plans for PFO, if they involve success, wealth and fame, then look no further for your place to call home.
Kobold Cleaver - Forgive me if I seemed to miss your meaning. I'm being very careful not to assume that anyone intends to participate in the Guide Program. I've had one person request to be removed from the program (though they never actually posted a desire to be in it). I assume they had told me in passing, likely in a PM or on Team Speak, but I'm not leaving such things to my memory. A publicly posted statement of interest is far easier for me to track.
Bluddwolf - I welcome your question, for we need to work out all the possible scenarios, not just for our operation as a group, but to predict what is best for those we serve. After all, Guides may be the very first people new players meet, and as such, our integrity for being good representatives of the community and the game needs to be maintained.
Here are my thoughts on the comments others have made thus far, and likely on a few questions raised in my own mind while typing this reply.
Our Primary Duty:
As Lam has said, a Guide's primary duty is to educate. Given the steeper learning curve in a sandbox game, most new players will simply want questions answered about mechanics, ask after locations around the starter town, inquire about the function/features of same, etc. I suspect that the bulk of a Guide's work will never even see them leaving the starter town(s).
Escort - Beginning Harvesting & PvE:
Once new players are familiar with the UI and how to interact with the game world, I could see Guides showing them around the perimeter of the starter town, setting out on brief excursions for their first taste of harvesting and PvE. I see no reason why Guides should not be allowed to protect/heal their charges while doing so.
The Wider world:
Here is where the question arises - is the Guide still teaching or have they become a "party member"? If we go back to the first item on the list, the Guide's main roll is to educate. Part of living in a sandbox is learning to survive in a more dangerous world than theme-parks tend to be, especially for new players. My view is that once a player knows the basics, they need to start taking responsibility for their own education, as well as for the inherent risk associated with their game play style and choices. Guides should not become enablers of those who desire to be spoon fed information or unrealistic buffers to new player risk. We have volunteered to help with their first steps, but we must be mindful that a stronger community is forged by equally capable community members.
Settlement Visits:
When I first pitched the idea of Guide directed settlement visits to the leadership of Callambea and Golgotha, the need for an escort was to provide protection against two things:
a. The type of players who might be lurking on the outskirts of starter towns, waiting to prey on inexperienced, new players.
b. The mobs that are found in hexes nearby almost every settlement hex.
Both of these are dangers that new players will be poorly equipped (in arms or skill) to adequately defend against. A commitment from any settlement to safely escort the Guide and new players to their settlement so that they can experience first hand what settlements look like, how they function, etc., seems like a very worthwhile educational opportunity.
As I posted in that announcement, if settlements are currently experiencing feud or war combat in and around their settlements, this would be a poor time to accept such a visit, but let's deal with the "what ifs" one at a time (# 3-5 are my thoughts and not Guide program dogma, #1-2 seem more like common sandbox sense)...
1. Guides and their charges need to realize that traveling past the safety of the starter zone comes with inherent risk. Being a Guide or traveling with one is no guarantee of safety or privilege.
2. Though non-Guide players may attempt to escort Guides and their charges to a settlement, no one can ensure safe travel in an open world, PvP oriented game.
3. I would suggest - settlements actively experiencing Feuds or War activity in and around their settlement should not accept the request of Guides looking to escort new players to that settlement. If possible, the Guide should attempt to redirect their charges to another settlement also offering to host.
4. I would suggest - Guides who are part of a Company actively in a Feud or War with the settlement they plan to visit should network via the Guide program third company chat (I hope we have this option) to find another guide who is able to escort the new players to that settlement. To say that any Guide who's primary or secondary company is in a Feud or War state may not escort to any settlement seems rather unrealistic. The Guide should inform their party that there is possibility that the Guide could be attacked by an enemy player9s) they encounter en route, but that the new players need to refrain from getting involved. If the new players involve themselves, they should expect no special treatment. I would not allow Guides or their charges to hide behind some community-viewed immunity in such circumstances. Such an immunity in these situations could only lead to the temptation for abused.
5. I would suggest - new players who choose to go to a settlement to experience a state of Feud or War, do so at their own risk. I would further suggest that accompanying Guides remain totally neutral in their actions - neither lending aid nor defense to any parties involved or to their charges, who have chosen to take the risks involved. At this point, the new player has chosen to be involved in potential violence that the Guide Program cannot endorse nor be a party to and still remain impartial. the integrity of the Guide Program needs to remain intact, even over the needs/desires of individual Guides and new players.
Thoughts? Again, this is not my show...I just got the ball rolling.
You know me better than that (I hope).I am always hopeful that differing groups can find ways to work together, or at the very least, keep open lines of communication so as to establish the first steps necessary for cooperation. There will always be a few individuals that people just can't deal with, but hopefully, that does not impede the efforts of larger groups to find common ground.
I've been involved in games where, even when characters/guilds were at war with one another, the players of those characters worked together to make certain that the in-game fun didn't sour. Getting players to remove themselves from the heated emotion of what just happened to their character isn't easy, but it is possible, especially if they keep forefront in their mind that how they react as players - not characters - is what will shape the community they play in. When individuals take all this far too seriously is often when things start to go awry, lines are drawn, they say or do things they never should, and we find the player community breaking into separate camps, even if the majority of people on either side would rather not.
So do I think we can strive to make a better society within the game - absolutely. Does that mean the game world will be a peaceful and placid place - no. As Tork Shaw said:
"...settlement warfare and land control is the central system to drive PvP in PFO."
Does that mean territorial competition is the only system - of course not. But being a major system, perhaps even the central system, the world is bound to be a competitive, often unsafe place. But so were the early days of UO, where stepping out of town meant you might be killed and totally looted (no threads back then). Yet we managed to build whole player-run economies (plenty of harvesting and crafting), took part in all sorts of PvE content, built whole player-made towns/communities, and crafted marvelous player-generated story-arcs/plots/quests/etc...all of it in the middle of that dangerous world.
We can do it again, as players, even if our characters are pitted against one another from time to time.
An Invitation to Settlements - Take a Closer Look at EoX
With empire/nation status comes choice. Multiple settlements means multiple choices for your settlement.
Training Opportunities:
Concerned that your single settlement may not offer all the types of training its members might want? Join the Empire of Xeilias and benefit from multiple settlement offerings. Also, only nations will unlock the very highest tiers of training when those skills become available.
Multiple Themes:
Are quite a few of your members planning on playing more than one character, but their alts don't really fit into your declared settlement theme? Running into the problem that getting their alts into the settlements that fits them better is met with concerns about them being a spy from your settlement? Being a member of the EoX opens up far more possibilities for your settlement's membership to explore alternate styles of settlement theme and RP.
Self-governance & The Bigger Picture:
If your settlement joins the EoX, you retain your autonomy. How you govern your settlement is your business. Being part of this Empire does not mean you get absorbed or "assimilated". After all, diversity makes an Empire stronger.
However, being a part of a larger whole does come with some very important privileges. Your leader will have an equal seat on the Imperial High Counsel to help direct the course of the Empire. As the Empire grows, captures towers, secures resources, creates points of interest and outposts, quells escalations, etc., being part of the Empire will grant you a level of success on all these fronts greater than any one settlement can manage by itself.
Plenty of Friends
In a game of territorial competition, membership comes with not just a non-aggression agreement, but mutual defense, privileged trade agreements, coordinated resource sharing, etc. Everything your settlement currently needs to consider to ensure it's membership survival and prosperity in PFO is made all the more easier because you have more than allies - you have fellow empire members. Allies are fine, they're valuable, but when push comes to shove, being part of an Empire where each settlement's safety and prosperity is vital to the other Empire members is invaluable. In the EoX, we will have your back as if it were our own...because as members of the same Empire, it is.
Not all sandbox games have open world competition or PvP, nor is every decent PvP game a sandbox. However, when you put the two together, you get a level of realism and dynamism that stands out among games where competition and PvP are isolated to certain zones, limited to only predetermined opponents, etc. Certainly, competitive play is not everyone's cup of tea, but competitive play does not strictly mean that participants must be the ones slugging it out in traditional PvP fashion. In a territorial control based, settlement vs. settlement competition, the harvester gathering valuable resources, the crafter helping build a new settlement structure, or the merchant opening new markets for his goods are all involved in competitive play. Of course, there will also be plenty of opportunities for PvP, since the struggle for territory and resources are at the very heart of PFO.
Benefits:
As mentioned above, there will be many forms of competition in PFO, but given that most people unfamiliar with the game will have questions/concerns focusing on traditional PvP, let us focus on those considerations.
In my mind, the benefit to open world competition in a territorial control, settlement vs. settlement game is that there will be a meaningful context for most of the PvP occurring in PFO. Unlike free-for-all PvP venues where everyone is a target for little more reason than the thrill of the kill and what the winner can strip off the loser's corpse, the vast majority of PFO's competition will revolve around controlling territory, controlling that territory's resources, and defending your own holdings. To this end, Goblin Works has taken a rather layered approach by providing a range of PvP opportunities depending on the scale of the competition, from individual character to entire settlements and even nations. Below is a list outlining some of the proposed forms of conflict:
• Feuds - "a state of PvP hostilities like a war between settlements, but at shorter notice and for a shorter period—against another company or settlement" (Ryan Dancey).
• Raids - used to attack and plunder outposts.
• SAD (Stand and Deliver) - used by bandits to attempt to demand goods/coin from travelers.
• Bounties - contracts allowing you to hunt down and dispatch individuals for profit.
• Guard Contracts - for hiring on to guard caravans and the like.
• Assassination - a collection of very specialized skills most often used to target characters holding key leadership positions so as to temporarily negate the Development Index bonus they help generate for their settlement.
• Factions - though still being fleshed out, warfare based on membership to specific lore-based factions.
• War - settlement vs. settlement or greater PvP.
This list does not include "sanctioned" PvP stemming from enforcing a settlement's laws against those flagged as criminals, attacking trespassers, or defending against anyone flagged as hostile due to their aggressive behavior, etc.
Considerations:
Certainly, the hope is that if PFO provides this many opportunities for PvP minded players to scratch their competitive itch, that they will be less likely to bother those who don't have that itch at all. Does this mean that if you are not engaging in any of the PvP activities listed above that you will be safe? No. Open world conflict means that the conflict can reach any part of the world, including where you might be peacefully doing your nonviolent business. Of course, some places will be far more dangerous, and conversely, some far safer than others. For instance, starter towns will be extremely safe. However, outside these few highly secure zones, even with all these opportunities for what we might call constructive or "meaningful" PvP, nothing will stop a player from attacking you if they desire to do so. This is part of living in a sandbox game - some players' idea of player-made objectives may include actions that put others at risk.
However, there are two things to keep in mind. First, as with so much of PFO, working in groups can alleviate much of this concern. The most passive traveler, harvester, or merchant will likely have settlement members more than willing to act as guards. In fact, any settlement worth its salt will devote whole companies of well seasoned PvPers to acting as guards, sentries, home defense, etc., so as to protect their members who are less skilled in combat. Second, PFO will contain a number of mechanics that provide consequences for PvP outside the methods outlined above, including a reputation and alignment system that will, in part, control access to skill training and settlement membership. The practitioner of repeated poor behavior might quickly find themselves out of a home, out of access to the skills they desire, and onto multiple groups' enemy list.
The grizzled warrior in the tavern, scar-covered and grim, narrowing his eyes over his tankard at the brash, young pup boasting that he knows war...he's a Hound.
The dark figure with an ax walking up the lane to collect the head of a bounty that's inside making his peace with whichever god will listen...he's a Hound.
The sultry vixen who gets swept up in the arms of the caravan bandit and plants a distracting kiss just before planting her dagger in his chest...she's a Hound.
If you see yourself in any of these...you may be a Hound too.
As a future guide in the Guide Program, I am happy to announce that both the settlements of Callambea and Golgotha have pledged to provide an open invitation to Guides and their new player charges to visit their settlements. Admittance to these settlements will provide an education into how each of them function, allow guests to experience what each settlement specializes in, and affords new players and opportunity to meet more of the community in the wider world of PFO.
Both settlements have likewise pledged to provide safe conduct from the starter town to their settlement, as well as protection on the return journey. The world will be a dangerous place, especially for the least experienced, and the leadership of both settlements wish to provide assistance to new players, both for the benefit of these new players, and for the positive community reputation it will perpetuate outside of PFO. Of course, this offer is only possible when the settlement in question is not in the middle of some disruptive or potentially dangerous situation (e.g. having new players scheduled to visit when either settlement does not have members available to escort them would not be feasible).
Note - This is an endorsement by those two settlement for the Guide Program. However, this is in no way a Guide Program endorsement of Callambea or Golgotha. I have said all along that when you put on your Guide Program hat, that you take off your hat for any other CC or settlement. The Guide Program is not a recruitment tool. Furthermore,I encourage any other settlement that wishes to make a similar invitation to the Guide Program to please post that desire here for future reference. The Guide Program is a community service by community members.
So as you can see, we offer far more than the stereotypic white. We are a diverse and very inclusive Empire.
Disclaimer: This has been a public service announcement of the Empire of Xeilias. All similarities of those photographed, either living or dead, is purely coincidental (except for Morbis, disguised as a chicken and dressed as a stormtrooper).
Since my original post, we have learned some particulars about the game could possibly have some influence on how the Guide program might best work. Originally, I shied away from the idea of Guides being in a common "Guide Program" Company. Asking volunteers to give of their game-time to help others seemed a large enough sacrifice...I did not want any Guide to miss out on participation in a Company associated with their settlement, trade, etc.
However, with more recent Developer comments, it may be possible to create a Guide Program Company so that Guides might benefit from several features which I hope Companies offer. First, here is the quote from Tork Shaw about Companies which might make this possible:
"Characters can be members of 3 companies. Your primary company (determined by the player) get 100% of your influence gains. Your secondary company gets 50%. Your tertiary company gets 0%."
With this new information, the hope would be that guides could be members of the Guide Program Company via their third company slot. This third company seems to be more for the interaction with social groups rather than the accumulation and spending of influence, which Guides would not need to carry out their duties. The hope is that several common "guild" (in this case "Company") features would be available for Guide use:
1. The Company Name - For recognition and legitimacy, membership would hopefully provide Guides with a Company name/title that people could see and be assured that they were dealing with legitimate Guides.
2. Communication - Hopefully Companies will enjoy a common Company chat channel. In this way , Guides could network with one another to better service their charges.
3. Banking/Storage - Though it is not clear if Companies (especially third Companies) will have Company banking as traditional guilds do in other games, but it would be helpful as a way to store free goods for the new players, if desired.
If Companies having a soft cap of 50 means that the Guide Program would be constrained by Company membership limitations, we could attempt to make three Guide Program Companies, one for each of the three eventual starter towns. Guides of similar alignment could associate themselves with the appropriate starter town and the new player community that "spawns" there.
To all Harvesters, Refiners, Crafters, and Merchants!
Come to Callambrea!
Won in the first Land Rush, our settlement is carefully situated to be the premier trade hub of the River Kingdoms. Here is just a small list of advantages we can offer you and yours:
- Close to the road for daily commerce traffic
- Close to a starter town for fresh customers in need of their first gear
- Close to mountains for all the metals and stone you could want
- Close to woods for lumber and game
- Surrounded by PvE content for combat and valuable resources
Callambea will specialize in a well chosen menu of training choices, have the best refining and crafting facilities, and as a Lawful Neutral settlement, will cater to the widest range of merchandise. If you dream of being a master craftsman or wealthy merchant, Callambea is the place to set up shop.
What didn't you know about Callambea?
- Callambea will house Corpus Aeternum, it's highly trained and experienced army. From home defense and harvesting operation protection to our strike force for up to full scale warfare, Corpus Aeternum has the might to ensure that the coin flows safely through Callambeas' gates.
- When Callambea's caravans set out, they do so under under guard of the Hounds of the Imperium - Callambeas crack mercenary corps. When confronted by the Hounds' warriors, bounty hunters and assassins, any bandits foolish enough to raid a Callambean caravan will truly wish they had pursued another line of work.
So whatever your plans for PFO, if they involve victory, success, wealth and fame, then look no further for your place to call home.
As more settlement guilds appear on the PFO Land Rush boards, the Empire of Xeilias would like to extend it's offer of nation building together. Only in nations will players eventually realize the highest tiers of training, and much sooner than that, only strong, PvP experienced nations can guarantee your safety and prosperity when the map fills up, resources become more scarce, and neighbors grow less friendly.
With our Lawful Neutral alignment, your Lawful Neutral, True Neutral, Lawful Evil, and even Lawful Good settlement can apply for membership. If you would rather leave the settlement building to those more interested while you enjoy all the other aspects of the game, your Charter Companies can find safe and prosperous lodging within either of our existing settlements - LN Collambea or LE Golgotha.
Finally, the Empire of Xeilias provides an even larger umbrella of security through membership in the Northern Coalition. If a strong Empire helps to ensure success, nonaggression pacts (at the very least) with our neighbors does that one better.
For your reading pleasure, and to better educate yourself on all that we offer, we invite you to visit the following links:
Please Note - Lawful Good Fidelis now resides outside the Empire in Ozem's Vigil. So great was our care for their intended game play style, that we happily helped them seek a more fitting home with our friends in the Full Metal Syndicate. We wish them well.
The question isn't, "Why play evil?" The question should be, "Why not play evil?"
Actually, I'm serious. We have all been raised to be good, to treat others fairly, to be kind, and considerate, and to share. We try, by whatever religion or philosophy, to live by some form of moral code, and upon reaching parenthood, we attempt to teach the same code to our children so that they too will grow up to be good people. So why, when provided the opportunity in an escapist environment, wouldn't you think of indulging the darker shades of your imagination? Now before you get your hackles raised, no...I don't mean play like a griefer. We've hashed this out on these forums enough times. I'm not talking about corpse camping, attacking clearly link-dead characters, etc. I'm talking about really playing, experiencing, and embracing the role of an evil character.
Those of us who have DM/GM'ed a table top game, know the fun of playing everyone and everything the party encounters. We know the most fun comes from creating their nemesis - that arch-rival - that bad guy that hounds the party through multiple adventures. This is the guy you may hate, but you also love to hate, because his very presence ratchets up the excitement of any encounter. He has a history with you - a shared, entwined story line that you write together through your mutual struggle. Without him, the game becomes far less exciting. Nameless mobs are killed, people live "happy" but rather generic, quiet lives, and the need for real heroes gives way to rather stale tales of nostalgic, "Remember when?" If this were the description of a book or a movie, we'd grow bored and look for something else to do, so why expect less from your MMO? After all, it's the villains - the really juicy bad guys - that infuse the experience with excitement, with that zest of life, with genuine risk that leads to the heights of victory or to crushing defeats, and thereby, makes it all so much more memorable.
Let's take a look at some of the best bad guys and imagine them in PFO.
Villains from History:
We'll start with historic villains who might have PFO equivalents. With settlement management, nation building, and formation warfare, I can certainly see evil dictators, generals, and conquerors spread their influence across PFO. Men such as Attila the Hun (the "Scourge of God"), Napoleon (called the Anti-Christ by many Europeans), or Genghis Khan (known for the systematic slaughter of civilians) were viewed by their enemies as monsters. True, "evil" in PFO will not be subjective, but I hardly think the terror caused by these three gentlemen would have been considered "consentual PvP", and likely, if living out their conquests in PFO, their alignments would reflect this. So if you love the thrill of PvP, of military strategy, and actual conquest...who else but evil?
Villains in Literature:
Let's turn to literature. What would Sherlock Holmes be without Professor Moriarty? How dull would Othello have been without Iago; arguably Shakespear's greatest villain? What point would there be to the whole Lord of the Rings without the Dark Lord Sauron? From great and powerful, like the White Witch of Narnia or Harry Potter's Voldemort, to the subtly manipulative evil of Mr. Dark from Something Wicked This Way Comes, evil is the reason the story takes place. Whether you're the raging monster Grendel or the seductive Morgan Le Fey, a despised career criminal like Bill Sikes or a lofty but cunning Cardinal Richelieu, evil characters make the tale worth telling.
Villains of Cinema:
Finally, for you younger readers, we have only to look at cinema to find a wealth of evil ripe for the playing. Where would any of their respective movies be without the Wicked Witch of the West, Hannibal Lecter, Bill the Butcher (Gangs of New York), or Darth Vader? From skilled killers like Roy Batty (Blade Runner) and Archibald Cunningham (Rob Roy), to dark, financial masterminds such as Gordon Gekko (Wallstreet) and Hans Gruber (Die Hard), PvP of all sorts will be the staple of the evil character. Even the more comical villains can provide examples of how to play evil with a twist and a theme - the manipulative Ursalla (the Little Mermaid), the vengeful Queen (Snow White), and the power-hungry Jafar (Aladin) would all be right at home in PFO. With comic book movies all the rage, characters based on the sultry Catwoman, cunning Loki, or the just plain crazy Joker are all viable options.
So why play evil? As long as we remember to be good sportsman while we're at it, why not play evil? Indulge yourself. Give in to the dark side. We won't tell your mother. For the sake of the game, for every bit of excitement that evil brings to the table, even for the good of the good-aligned characters that fear your arrival, come play evil. You're saving them from boredom. They'll thank you for it later.
Currently, in that the Empire is no longer needing to spread its training all the way from Lawful Good to Lawful Evil, if you are seeking a highly focused, experienced, seasoned, mean, lean, fightin' machine of a nation, I cordially invite you to read back through this thread and see how you, your CC, or even your settlement can greatly benefit from it's inclusion or alliance with the Empire of Xeilias.
Before hitting poast, let me focus for a moment on the "fighting machine" part of my above statement. I am currently offering, especially for new players, a series of short articles about how PFO will tackle a sandbox. You can view this thread (here). I have yet to post the PvP article, but I think this would be a great spot for it, since there may still be lingering the belief that PvP only means killing each other and that those who enjoy PvP are somehow less "nice" or less "community-minded". I can tell you firsthand, nothing in the Empire of Xeilias could be further from the truth.
Open World Competition
Not all sandbox games have open world competition or PvP, nor is every decent PvP game a sandbox. However, when you put the two together, you get a level of realism and dynamism that stands out among games where competition and PvP are isolated to certain zones, limited to only predetermined opponents, etc. Certainly, competitive play is not everyone's cup of tea, but competitive play does not strictly mean that participants must be the ones slugging it out in traditional PvP fashion. In a territorial control based, settlement vs. settlement competition, the harvester gathering valuable resources, the crafter helping build a new settlement structure, or the merchant opening new markets for his goods are all involved in competitive play. Of course, there will also be plenty of opportunities for PvP, since the struggle for territory and resources are at the very heart of PFO.
Benefits:
As mentioned above, there will be many forms of competition in PFO, but given that most people unfamiliar with the game will have questions/concerns focusing on traditional PvP, let us focus on those considerations.
In my mind, the benefit to open world competition in a territorial control, settlement vs. settlement game is that there will be a meaningful context for most of the PvP occurring in PFO. Unlike free-for-all PvP venues, where everyone is a target for little more reason than the thrill of the kill and what the winner can strip off the loser's corpse, the vast majority of PFO's competition will revolve around controlling territory, controlling that territory's resources, and defending your own holdings. To this end, Goblin Works has taken a rather layered approach by providing a range of PvP opportunities depending on the scale of the competition, from individual character to entire settlements and even nations. Below is a list outlining some of the proposed forms of conflict with links provided to the Paizo board discussion threads and the link to the Developer's blog for each:
•Feuds - used by units as small as individual companies to engage in "sanctioned" PvP (i.e. PvP that will not affect reputation or alignment).
•Raids - used to attack and plunder outposts.
•SAD (Stand and Deliver) - used by bandits to attempt to demand goods/coin from travelers.
•Bounties - contracts allowing you to hunt down and dispatch individuals for profit.
•Guard Contracts - for hiring on to guard caravans and the like.
•Factions - though still being fleshed out, warfare based on membership to NPC factions.
•War - settlement vs. settlement or greater PvP.
This list does not include "sanctioned" PvP stemming from enforcing a settlement's laws against those flagged as criminals, attacking trespassers, or defending against anyone flagged as hostile due to their aggressive behavior, etc.
Considerations:
Certainly, the hope is that if PFO provides this many opportunities for PvP minded players to scratch their competitive itch, that they will be less likely to bother those who don't have that itch at all. Does this mean that if you are not engaging in any of the PvP activities listed above that you will be safe? No. Open world conflict means that the conflict can reach any part of the world, including where you might be peacefully doing your nonviolent business. Of course, some places will be far more dangerous, and conversely, far safer than others, but even with all these opportunities for what we might call constructive or "meaningful" PvP, nothing will stop a player from attacking you if they desire to do so. This is part of living in a sandbox game - some players' idea of player-made objectives may include some rather unseemly activities.
However, there are two things to keep in mind. First, as with so much of PFO, working in groups can alleviate much of this concern. The most passive traveler, harvester, or merchant will likely have settlement members more than willing to act as guards. In fact, any settlement worth its salt will devote whole companies of well seasoned PvPers to acting as guards, sentries, home defense, etc., so as to protect their members who are less skilled in combat. This will certainly be the case in the Xeilian Empire. Our harvesters and crafters are well cared for and we protect them and enable them to enjoy their game fun while our PvPers enjoy theirs by defending them with their lives
Second, PFO will contain a number of mechanics that provide consequences for PvP outside the methods outlined above, including a reputation and alignment system that will, in part, control access to skill training and settlement membership. The practitioner of repeated poor behavior might quickly find themselves out of a home, out of access to the skills they desire, and onto multiple groups' kill on sight lists.
The Empire of Xeilias is actively looking for individuals, Charter Companies, and whole settlements that see the wisdom in being associated with an experienced, well organized, growing nation. We offer two settlements, Lawful Evil Golgotha and Lawful Neutral Calambea, as well as membership in the Northern Coalition. For the wide range of possible ways you and yours might interact with the Empire of Xeilias, scroll back up the thread or PM me, Hobs, the Imperial Ambassador of the Empire of Xeilias.
One change to note since our initial post, we have said fond farewell to Lawful Good Fidelis and wish them well in Ozem's Vigil. This was not only an amicable split, it was a pairing that we, the remaining Empire members, helped them to broker. We care that much for our members.
For those seeking to play LN, TN, LE, NE, and even LG (it's mechanically possible if you're up to the challenge), we plan to create a lawful bastion of profit and military strength. Come build it with us!
Two suggestions I have to make threads less toxic.
1. When the vast majority of the posters in a thread repeatedly convey that they understand Option A has already been ruled out, don't introduce the idea that the only remaining option is Option A and then chastise the developers for allowing confusion to reign when they come back in and clarify that Option A was never an option.
2. Don't pat the most vilely insulting posters on these forums on the head and say "good boy" while decrying all the incivility on these forums.
I am attempting to move forward, having learned from all our potential past mistakes - players and GW employees alike. Whether you believe me or not (I have no ability nor desire to change your mind), I am attempting to get as many different voices into this discussion to come up with guidelines we can all agree to. We don't all have to, but then, we'll end up right where we are, which doesn't seem like a very productive place. And I mean productive for every one of us as players of a game we've all waited a very long time to enjoy, not just productive for this or that side as competitors.
I would appeal to anyone who attempts to keep grinding the ax of recent or even long past events to set those issues aside, at least in here. If we can't try to agree - not demand of each other, but agree - on how we can help GW better garner our opinions and discuss that which we are asked to discuss for all our mutual benefit, then why are we on these forums at all? My guild, your guild, whomever - most of the squabbling truly produces very little net benefit. If you're bent on attacking each other, wait until the game, where we actually will have tangible reasons to compete. But if the game isn't going to be toxic, it has to begin with the players not treating each other in a toxic fashion. All of us who have been on these boards this long have some amount of blame to bear, but we can all start agreeing to a short list of, "I'll at least not do this <fill in the blank> while we try to help GW make the game better by our input."
I'm not even asking to agree on what kind of game or what playstyle or any commitment affecting in-game anything, just a short list of our version of Robert's Rules that those who want to participate (and that doesn't mean a council or privileged few, but anyone) can agree upon.
Again, if we can't agree upon something this simple, something only to benefit the game and everyone equally, we will never be able to compete in-game without equally attacking the player behind the characters. What a lost opportunity that would be.
This is exactly the kind of baiting and pot stirring we do not need, and I would say that regardless of what guild/group I was in.
T7V and TEO have many good people in their ranks (you just heard from one of their best). Neither of these groups deserve a backhanded compliment, and that done only as a means of insulting a third party. This sort of forum chumming is exactly what we don't need and I hope other community members tell you as much.
In a thread I had created several days ago, I had touched on suggestions for GW to help avoid situations like this past week's. That thread served its purpose and I have no interest in perpetuating any residual bad blood that it's relation to an even hotter thread might cast into the future. Though I hope mine was a bit more productive, or at least not as contentious, they can all spiral down into the forum abyss, and I will be happier for it. As we bid them farewell, I hope we have learned from them, if nothing else.
Getting back to the constructive suggestions, I would like to see us take what we have learned, and fashion together what we hope to create, in the way of community crowdforging - primarily, how GW will collect our views on a given topic.
I know Ryan has posted that he thought the "thread that shall not be named" was helpful. Though I disagree on several points, I will move forward with the hope that it at least instilled within us a desire to avoid such future conflicts, and rather, hold truly productive debates. I have no problem with a heated debate when we keep to the topic, know the desired end result, and clearly know what will be done with those results. To me, debate brings the possibility of educating others, which leads to the further possibility of reinforcing opinions or even changing opinions. Arguments, especially volatile arguments, involve far too much emotion, which is not, to me, the same as being passionate (and still rational) about a topic.
Here were my suggestions from that other thread:
I would suggest that when GW seeks our community input on topics as potentially heated as the Land Rush, that the parameters of the discussion topic, the desired end result, and their intended reaction to those results are clear. I would further suggest that GW allows the community an opportunity to ask clarifying questions before the trigger is pulled on such a discussion, and that the discussion is moderated in a fair and consistent manner.
I am not suggesting that discussions be so narrowly defined as to eliminate the value of tangent discussions, but every decently run meeting (these discussion seems akin to meetings on a large scale) begins with an agenda so that participants know the objectives and the moderator can corral less focused participants back on task.
As a final thought, it is true that the most frequent and vocal posters may seem to monopolize the discussion, but an experienced Community Manager reads every post and keeps a tally of how many people they are hearing from and how on target each comment is to the discussion at hand. Barring comment does very little to foster the perception of inclusion.
----------------------------
I welcome my fellow PFO community members to share your thoughts on how we can help GW better garner our opinions in the future.
PS: Someone had suggested earlier that I change my avatar so that it not include EoX, thus making it clear that I'm only speaking for myself when that is the case. If I'm speaking as the EoX Ambassador, I make it very clear at the beginning of any post. Regardless, should it matter what tags any of us wear if our posts are sound and our intentions sincere?
I finally had time to read the replies here in the wee hours of this morning (about 2:30 a.m.), so now, I am caught up.
First, I thank Ryan for his multiple replies which have added clarity to his past actions/positions, as well as a better idea of how he plans to move forward into the future. That does not mean that I approve in all cases, but his efforts to clarify are appreciated. That some thought his statements concerning the Golgotha question were clear from the start is certainly those individuals' perceptions and I do not seek to impose my interpretation upon them. However, given the number of posters who have agreed with my thoughts concerning clarity, there seemed to be enough people, including those outside the EoX, with the same perception as myself, to warrant a second look at how all this has played out.
"I don't understand what this thread is trying to accomplish. I am not being dismissive, I am genuinely unsure what Hobs wants Ryan to do."
- Lord Zodd
As the CEO of a company, where promoting positive ties to the entire customer base is crucial - ties forged by clear statements, concise objectives, and professional customer service/interaction - I thought that my concerns about a year of troubling episodes needed to finally be voiced. I do not subscribe to the belief that every customer is always right, nor should the company in question bend over backwards to appease such customers if they believe their policies/actions/practices are correct. The prudent question is how does the company know when they have reached the point where there is need to reexamine their position? My answer would be, when enough people from varying "camps" have the same perception of their performance. I'll use this analogy from my classroom (I teach 8th grade). I make all my own assessments, partly so as to ensure that the phrasing of my questions match the language I have used in teaching the material. One of my philosophies about any assessment is that the phrasing of the test should never interfere with a student's ability to demonstrate mastery. If an inordinate number of students now get the same question wrong, I know I need to reexamine the wording of that question. No matter how well worded I believed that question to be, the fact that it was misinterpreted by a significant number of my students should indicate to me that I did not make myself clear enough.
Second, I believe strongly that criticism should be followed by suggestion and possibly solution. That I now have the time for the latter two, I would like to share the following list of suggestions:
1. I would suggest that the newly hired Community Manager, once made aware of GW's policies and vision, be allowed to perform their duties based on their expertise, rather than be micromanaged by superiors. My hope is that they will be coming in with fresh eyes, no preconceived notions, and free of any baggage about past forum squabbles, individual posters, etc. As I tell all my students at the beginning of a school year, I don't check their past grades, their past indiscretions, I don't interview their past teachers, etc. They start fresh, and I trust in both their desire to make a new start and my experience to evaluate them for who they are now, without bias or prejudice based on past performance. They start with a clean slate. I think the best thing Mr. Dancey can do is allow this new employee to start clean. Doing so allows all of us a fresh start together. I would hope we all would make the best of such an opportunity.
2. I would suggest that when GW seeks our community input on topics as potentially heated as the Land Rush, that the parameters of the discussion topic, the desired end result, and their intended reaction to those results are clear. I would further suggest that GW allows the community an opportunity to ask clarifying questions before the trigger is pulled on such a discussion, and that the discussion is moderated in a fair and consistent manner.
I am not suggesting that discussions be so narrowly defined as to eliminate the value of tangent discussions, but every decently run meeting (these discussion seems akin to meetings on a large scale) begins with an agenda so that participants know the objectives and the moderator can corral less focused participants back on task.
As a final thought, it is true that the most frequent and vocal posters may seem to monopolize the discussion, but an experienced Community Manager reads every post and keeps a tally of how many people they are hearing from and how on target each comment is to the discussion at hand. Barring comment does very little to foster the perception of inclusion.
3. Finally, I would suggest that answers to questions about policy, procedures, positions, etc. be as short, clear, and succinct as possible. I never want to see the head of a company I invest in setting anything but the best example for their staff and the customers they serve. Getting drawn into arguments with customers, retaliating against perceived attacks, and other less professional behavior sets a tone. A clearly made, civil statement that people can be redirected to as often as necessary maintains both your clarity on a given topic, and your level of professionalism.
There have been times where GW replies, sometimes made by multiple staff members, have been worded differently enough that we recipients have walked away with differing perceptions and interpretations. We look to the makers of the game to best educate us about that game, and though we are all human (I personally have recently made and apologized for a mistake concerning my interpretation of a GW policy), we hope every effort is made not to have to apologize in the first place. Expending the time and effort up front in crafting the best, clearest message possible, is always more appealing than having to apologize after the fact. At the same time, I also hope this community is forgiving enough to accept an honest, heartfelt apology when one is given, so long as it is not followed by a continuation of the same mistakes.
First, my apology to those who have posted and who's replies I have not even had a chance to read. Already running late, I went straight to PMs, and in my reply to one, decided that person's concerns needed to be the only thing I had time for this morning. Then I thought, for those who have wondered about my motivation in starting this thread, I would simply post my reply to that other player.
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No one in Pax asked me to write it. Aside from Pax and all of this latest turmoil, I am just simply fed up with all of this - the bickering, the poor management, the ill-conceived designs, the pitting one group against another - and sending it to Dancey in a PM would likely have changed nothing (not that his past stands and statements demonstrate that he'll be inclined to change his position on anything, whether the message had been delivered in public or private). I am not trying to attack him as a person - I don't do that and my record on these boards bears that out - but I am criticizing his performance as a paying customer and a concerned community member, both of which, you would think, a CEO would have at least some modicum of concern about, because if its more than one voice from many different styles of players, yet all with the same complaints, it might just have merit.
I have hardly posted anything even slightly negative for the year or more I've been on these forums because I've seen how constant flame wars can damage a community, but this has been a total fiasco, and I by no means limit it to just this latest issue. Watching it all unfold, something my school principal has said to me about members of my teaching staff rang true. "They complain to everyone but the person who can actually fix the problem...they gossip in little clusters, they whine and moan in the teachers lounge, they attack each other behind each other's backs, they complain to the union reps when the issues aren't contractual issues, all because they're too afraid to take the issue to the one person who has the power to resolve the issue." I decided, my reputation damaged by doing so or not, that it was time to take the issue to the person who is and will continue to be the largest cause of this problem and the only one, shy of Lisa, to actually be able to fix the problem.
I decided that this statement needed to be said in public because everyone who has complained to me about Dancey's performance needs to see that I'm willing to throw myself on the chopping block to make my point. I'm not attacking other players, this isn't a crusade to shape/force the community into what "I" think it should be, etc. This has nothing to do with any other player or group, swaying their opinions, trying to sway others against them, etc. I'm done quietly complaining to others about this and I'm going to the source, but like a handful who have been brave enough and taken the risk of airing their concerns publicly (such as Alexander Damocles), I'm showing Dancey that I'm not going to let the fear of his possible reprisals for my statement muzzle me. What can he do, besides ban me from the server and the game? Perhaps he would be saving me potential years of further frustration. And that action, banning a community minded, community loving player for finally voicing his grave concerns, might be worth my couple hundred dollar investment if it saves the game from the direction it's heading. I'm sure I've spent that much money on worse causes. I could live with that personal loss for that net community gain.
Since this post does not deal directly with the "Concerning Pax in the Landrush" thread, I decided to post separately. I will say that I appreciate your definitive answer about the Land Rush issue. Understandably, as the Xeilian Ambassador, I was worried about the fate of Golgotha in the Landrush, but as a player, I have been deeply concerned for some time about a far more important topic.
For the remainder of this post, I am not writing as anything but a player. No titles or meta-politics or guild tags - just a player. But as a player with over a decade-and-a-half of MMO experience as a community networker, server-wide event planner, and multi-guild plot manager, I must regretfully tell you that I have never seen a community so woefully pitted against itself by the one person who's business it should be to do the very opposite. It pains me to level such criticism, since I think your vision for what PFO could be is truly unique. If I did not believe it to be, I would not have spent over $200 and invested over a year of my free-time preparing for EE. But no matter how unique the game concept, how inventive the mechanics or graphics or classes, all of this will come to naught if the community which plays it is poorly lead.
I can hear some of your most avid supporters (and I would love to be one of them, if circumstances were otherwise) already coming to your defense and posing questions like, "Who are you to judge Ryan Dancey?" The honest answer is that I am no one in particular, but then, does any GW customers need to be someone of importance, or more likely, someone who agrees with you, to voice their concerns after repeated mishaps and poorly executed policies? You see, when you foster a community atmosphere where its members believe that they will be given the authority to pass judgement upon one another, yet present it as vaguely and in so hands-off a fashion as you have done, too often you find misguided members believing that they have the right to impose their will upon any other equally important community member. You thus promote both an elitist minority who believe that only they are the true voice of the community - the true believers of the grand scheme - while fostering a lynch mob mentality when the true enemies of the community have been identified. Done well, this might be the most exciting addition PFO could bring to the MMO market, but handled as these last few weeks have been, you find a forum that is increasingly divisive, more steadily toxic, and truly detriment to any hopeful customer appeal.
Add to this that I have never (from Alpha testing World of Warcraft to present) seen a CEO argue, insult, and attempt to silence paying customers in quite the way you have done over the past year. This final example - attempting to use Golgotha as a guinea pig for your community crowdforging experiment, seemed an incredibly ill-advised plan from the start. It has done nothing but inflame an already contentious Landrush process. As an ambassador, I speak with many people - pro-Xeilian Empire and against - and regardless of their stand on whether Golgotha should have been admitted to the Landrush or not, the one consistent comment has been disappointment with how the first and second Landrushes were implemented.
If all of this, in your judgement, indicates that you are, "on exactly the right path," you need to hear that if I were a new customer coming to these forums for the first time, I would make a quick about face and spend my money and my time elsewhere. However, I have too much invested to do so, too many good people to abandon, and even with all the mismanaged opportunities, I hold out hope that PFO will still prove to be worth my initial investment. But for that to happen, the course you are charting and and practices you are employing to get to that desired endpoint need to be less community contentious and more community cohesive.
I hope for all of us who have embraced your original vision, that you will be able to make this change or turn over community management to someone who can, and then trust their expertise. Your customers have invested far too much to receive any less.
Goblin Squad Member
