Hevyyd's page

mkay, thats the first "combat" done for the day, you have at least 1-2 more to go and a boss fight! (usually, sometimes more, sometime less)

and honestly, I have never seen a color spray end a fight, (diminish the threat greatly? yes, end? not unless its like all of 2 guys)

I personally would equate "diminish greatly" to "end" but that is my own opinion. Also as a minor aside a Heavens Oracle Color Spray is pretty freaking sweet.

My own argument for spells being "OP" is that they are only as good as the players ability to manage their resource and use it efficiently, there are enough low level spells to trivialize "most" lower level encounters.

Hevyyd wrote:

Apologies if this is off-topic, but do any of you think the Slayer (from the upcoming Advanced Class Guide) might totally invalidate the rogue as a whole? (combat wise, they do lack trapfinding after all) Their sneak attack/favored enemy isn't as good as either parent class, but they get both in addition to full BAB, higher HD, and a very respectable skill pool as well as a better Fort Save.

the investigator and slayer both do that (in their own ways) rather neatly, actually. i brought it up earlier this page.

Ah, I see. I should have read a bit more carefully before posting. Sorry for the redundancy and thanks for weighing in. :)

Even as a limited resource a well-placed Sleep or Color Spray can end a low CR fight before it even starts.

Apologies if this is off-topic, but do any of you think the Slayer (from the upcoming Advanced Class Guide) might totally invalidate the rogue as a whole? (combat wise, they do lack trapfinding after all) Their sneak attack/favored enemy isn't as good as either parent class, but they get both in addition to full BAB, higher HD, and a very respectable skill pool as well as a better Fort Save.

The last time I ever really ran a game was several years ago when I first moved back home. A small group of my friends (3 players) were all interested in learning/playing D&D and since I had the most experience I was the DM. Everything was great, some players were far stronger than others and stats were pretty damn high all around, I gave out lots of money and homebrew swag, it was a hot mess of a game but everyone had fun. (which is all that really matters, esp. since we all remember it fondly to this day)

Problem is after about a year of running the game I TPK'ed the party when I decided to up the ante one gaming session. Normally I only used one boss monster at a time and the players whipped it no problem so I figured, "hey, lets do three and have one be a caster!"

Bad idea.

I haven't really run a serious game since that fateful stormy night. (Literally, it was raining and I had to walk home in a downpour after killing off all my players.) I've tried over and over again to either "revive" my old game and give the players another whack at it, or to use any number of my other ideas for campaigns, I just can't get them off the ground.

What I need advice on is how do I get back into this? I have a much stronger grasp on the rules now but with all the ideas in my brain I don't know where to start, and I'm also afraid that my players wont be able to keep up, only one of them is really competent with the game mechanically and the other two still need a lot of hand-holding. Which I guess is a big source of frustration for me.

Any advice to help me give these guys something great?

Would I be able to get my hands on the updated pdf rules?

I have cookies to offer.... :D

Shifty wrote:

My opinion is that it is an optional rule subject to GM's whim and fancy, the GM could just as easily say Elves can fly too.

It's not core, and in 99% of cases wont fly, pardon the pun.

That said, the gravitas of flying at a 20' move speed is severely overstated.

Particularly given the poor maneuverability, since they'll be starting life with a -4 to all of their Fly checks, and it's a DC 15 just to turn left or right by spending 1/4 of your movement.

Aaah, there we go, I knew I was forgetting a drawback somewhere along the line. Not a huge one mind you but an annoyance to be sure.

@ asthyril It's worth nothing than I don't play PFS, so it's not an issue there.

@ Shifty How is it not core? Last I checked it's published by paizo and a lot of the material therein is pretty tied to Golarion. Again this is mostly an opinion based argument/discussion not looking to stir up trouble. I'm assuming by 'core' you mean PFS?

20ft fly speed may not seem like much but a 1st level character would never have to save vs. a grease spell, pass any climb related skill check without rolling, be able to cross any form of water, a bunch of minor things like that which other characters cannot do.

Not to mention it's value to a caster, being able to fly safely out of reach of all melee harm right from the get-go is fairly legit.

I do agree with you about this book (and the teifling one) being GM-permission heavy though.

So, according to the rules laid out in the 'Blood of Angels' book. An Aasimar can trade out their spell-like ability for a unique feature, one of which is a 20ft natural fly speed with poor manuverability.

They can also has wings, but that's besides the point.

While I think it's a cool feature, it does sort of undermine the whole feat tree that lets Aasimar fly, unless you wanted to improve your speed and maneuverability I guess.

I guess this isn't so much of a rules question as a "what is your opinion of this rule" question. Hoping to hear some good feedback, thanks guys.

Having a free hand isn't so bad for the Magus (in regards to things like Power Attack) because spellstrike/spell combat more than make up for the damage you're losing by not using two hands.

The Kensai's ability to add Int to their AC is pretty nifty as well. It will never be full-plate defense, but it's better than nothing. Also if you plan on playing as a Human look into swapping your bonus feat & extra skill points for another floating +2 in your attributes. The loss of a feat isn't as bad for a Magus, who picks up a couple bonus feats, and being able to pump up Str and Int at first level is really nice.

Yeah, pretty much a Divine Gish (I guess I always assume Gish means Arcane for whatever reason. Possibly because that is the norm).

I've heard quite a bit about Magus vs Sorc/Fighter/Eldritch Knight (with some Dragon Disciple dipped in for +4 Str). Do you think one build is better than the other for what I'm going for?
I think the big difference would be the Sorc/Fighter would be a buff and fight while the Magus would be the blast and fight with no shield, and in this case the Magus looks more suited.

If I were to go Magus, any suggestions for archetypes? I could see Myrmidarch working, but nothing else stands out.

I'm not fond of the Eldritch Knight. For starters the build takes a long time to come together and I HATE that. While you are cross/prestige classing and building up you are behind your party members in the curve and that rubs me the wrong way. On the fluff side it also means that I can't play my concept right from first level.

You're looking to lay down the smack and fry some heathens, Magus does that right out of the gate. A Magus can fight and cast at the same time, whereas an Eldritch Knight can fight OR cast barring their capstone power which relies on crit.

I don't see the attraction to Myrmidarch, as it uses archery and you said you wanted to use a spear of some sort. Go straight Magus if you want to wear heavy armor, or Kensai if you don't mind giving up the armor for some sick combat skill with only a small hit to casting.

EDIT: For Kensai you would want to look into getting some extended buff spells going to shore up defenses. That way you can kick ass AND wear your preachers robe, and who doesn't say style matters?

Sounds to me like you're trying to make a Gish, which Divine Casters..... don't really do that well. If I were trying to smack someone with a sword of electrical vengeance I would just play a Magus.

For blastiness you've got Shocking Grasp, Lightning Bolt, and Defensive Shock if you wanted to annoy people who touched you. As far as being a "Holy Man" it's all in the fluff as far as I'm concerned. I played a Magus who was VERY religious and had a grand ole' time doing it.

You didn't specify the range of the effect, the spell may behave like a charged touch spell but how far does the 'break ground' effect go? As written any piece of ground within line of sight is a valid target, which is a no bueno for a first level spell. I would say close to medium range for the effect, tops.

Also doesn't is cost double the amount of movement to get through difficult terrain? Nothing to scoff at, that.

I would reduce movement speed by a static amount, rather than straight up half, as that penalizes creatures with higher movement rates more than ones with lower, damage scaling looks okay to me. Slashing damage is good and as a conjuration effect SR: no is fairly par for the course. What really brings this down to a 5th level spell though is the 20ft emanation effect rather than selective targeting.

Looks good.

Oooooo, those are sexy.

You should pick up the Elemental Focus feat as well if you have room, anything to bump up those save DC's.

The easiest thing to do would be to limit the maximum number of damage dice, say 10d6, and perhaps impose a cap on the number of targets effected. you could also slap a requirement of an earth or stone surface required for casting the spell.

What I linked is just something to work from. :3

In that case, let me transcribe it for you, straight from the horses mouth. :3

FIELD OF ICY RAZORS
Evocation [Cold]
Levl: Sorcerer/wizard 8
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range" Medium (100ft + 10ft/leve;)
Targets: One creature/level, no two
of which are more than 60ft apart.
Duration: Instantaneous plus 1 round/level; see text
Saving Throw: Reflex partial
Spell Resistance: Yes

Razor-sharp ice crystals surround the targets. Each target takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 20d6); half of this damage is cold damage, and half is slashing. In addition, each target's speed is reduced by 20 feet for 1 round per caster level. Creatures that succeed on Reflex saving throws take half damage and their movement is unaffected.
Focus: A silver shuriken worth 50gp that looks like a snowflake.

Ok. I need to get these ideas on paper before I forget:

- Something that creates a field of stone spines

You should look into the Field of Icy Razors spell from the 3.5 Spell Compendium, I'm sure you could re-skin that into something like what you are looking for.

As for a race, how about Oread from the Bestiary 2? They are humanoids with a touch of earth elemental blood in their heritage. They are on page 205, here is the splat in case you don't have the book.

+2 Strength, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma
Darkvision 60ft
Magic stone 1/day as a spell-like ability (caster level equals your total HD)
Acid Resistance 5
Elemental Affinity: Oread Sorcerers with the Elemental (earth) bloodline treat their Charisma as 2 points higher for all their spells and class abilities. Oread clerics with the Earth domain cast their domain powers and spells at +1 caster level.

I've always detested point buy. It's one of my least favourite things in D&D.

Always struck me as part of the 'World of Warcraft-isation' of D&D, responsible for cookie-cutter characters and blandness.

Forgive me for the derail, because this is a derail. As a World of Warcraft player in a competitive raiding guild, as well as an avid Pathfinder fan, I find this comment extremely offensive. Comparing WoW to Pathfinder is apples to Oranges, cookie cutter character builds are a part of high-end WoW playing because that's how the game was made, it's a design flaw. A blatant one, one which Blizz constantly seeks to rectify, results varying. The entire point of high-end progression is to optimize your performance.

This has nothing to do with Tabletop.

If anything you should be blaming players who insist on using thought experiment characters at the gaming table. Just because Treantmonk and all the other amazing Handbook authors give an optimized, or at the very least efficiency based, take on character options doesn't mean YOU have to. I have played characters using the 3.5 elite array in pathfinder and it works well. It's not about numbers, it's about fun, and using point buy doesn't make the game any less fun.

What I hate most is the "all or nothing" mentality I seem to find on forums a lot, people automatically condemn point-buy as a blatant attempt at munchkin, then camp #1 reminds them that is also makes things fair, while camp #2 chimes in saying point buy should take a trip to the Iron City.

In my personal experience I like to take the best of both worlds, I love making characters with interesting traits, a detailed background, character flaws, etc. and then I let them grow organically as I play them, on the other hand, being a WoW player, I also like numbers. I like making sure my character can perform well in tasks they would be good at, while having obvious weaknesses. Does this mean I like to overshadow my party members by being pun-pun? Hell no. If anything I love giving less experienced players advice that might help them have more fun when dice need to be rolled. There is nothing wrong with a "purist" approach to this game, but a marriage of the love of role play and "number crunching" is what makes this game fun for me.

/end rant. I apologize if I come across as rude but I feel very strongly about this and hope I presented my argument in the most articulate and mature way possible.

I hate rolling stats, if only because my dice are trolls. Ever since purchasing them, whenever I pick up 4d6 and roll them I always get middling numbers. My average set looks like this;

13, 14, 14, 13, 15, 14

I hate it. I refuse to roll with other people's dice because they aren't mine, I don't want my dice to find out I've been cheating on them. The last time that happened I botched a Willpower roll in Mage: The Awakening and ended up a Marauder.

I'm not saying its not a legal combination, I'm just saying that I don't believe it was intentional.

The TWF penalty is almost neglegable when the magus as a swift action can make their weapon +1 (at 2nd level) so the only thing that really limits anything is the defensive casting check which can be overcome by 5' stepping back making the combo foolproof every other round.

its totally legal, no question there but do you really think it was intentional?

I believe it was very much intentional, Zorro imagery aside being able to gain an extra attack via spellstrike/spell combat goes a long way for a low-level Magus with precious few spells to spend.

You could always opt to use the close range arcana with ray of frost or acid splash if it irks you that much, as brought up by Eric Clingenpeel.

Every Provolone Archtype Magus should take Improved Cheddar at first level, 3rd at the very latest. Fact of life.

He specifically says that arcane mark is a bad idea that doesn't do anything other than let you play zoro. Someone tries to point out the devastating combo to him and I don't see a specific response to that.

Swinging your sword an extra time per round is a devastating combo? Forgive my skepticism but even while crit fishing with a tri-enchanted weapon for extra elemental damage per swing I don't see how this puts a Magus in peril of out-damaging, say, a 2handed Fighter on a full attack action.

Even if all you're doing is playing Zorro, using Arcane Mark with Spellstrike/Spell Combat to get an extra attack is RAW and RAI.

James Jacobs says, multiple times, there is no extra attack.

Jiggy's interpretation is finagling an extra attack into it.

I don't see how the contradiction could get any more blatant.

Bobson: The other interpretation is that you just use the sword in place of whatever touch attack you would normally get, and that spell combat needs an actual off hand weapon (the touch spell) to get in another attack. That casting the spell is still a standard action and you can't take a full round action to use spellstrike with that standard action.

And you can ask me to spell that out without accusing me of trolling.

You are correct, using Spell Combat does not give a free attack, it allows you to take all of your attacks at a -2 penalty and cast a spell during that full attack action either before, during, or after those attacks have been completed. No extra weapon attack can be made to deliver the spell, this is 100% true.

What you continue to ignore, however, is Spellstrike. For consistencies sake I will copy the text from the SRD, however I could just as easily scribe it verbatim from my copy of UM:

I trust there is no need for emphasis. Spellstrike says, in no uncertain terms, that it can be used during Spell Combat, and that the touch spell can be delivered via a weapon attack. It cannot be more clear, this is not an interpretation, it is RAW, and according to the FAQ, RAI.

Now I see your point of view about this ability, it could indeed be read as having the Spell Mastery feat.

I don't see it as such because I'm assuming the DM will say that burns/cuts/other effects will harm your written spells and effectively doesn't make you immune to effects damaging your spellbook content.

I guess I should give them a spellbook, but allow them to write a X amount of spells on their body ; spells which would provide them the effects of the Spell Mastery feat.

That is far more elegant, and appeases my suspension of disbelief.

I present the following;

Magus' body is a spellbook + 'X' number of spells scribed on body - any actual need to LOOK at said markings = Spell Mastery.

Unless your campaign involves a Magus getting his arm chopped off to lose spell access to the spells written on his arm, the class feature remains a purely thematic way for a Magus to circumvent a prepared Arcane Caster's greatest weakness.

Furthermore any Caster is at constant risk of their secrets being stolen, after all what's to stop a thief from stealing the spellbook of an unprepared Wizard, and don't even get me started on psychic evisceration/mind whammy.

Again, I'm not saying the class feature is OP, it's not. Just calling it what it is.

@Maxximilius back in Complete Arcane (3.5 splatbook) there was a section on using your own body as a spellbook via tattoo's, if you count up all the room a body has you get 80 pages of "space."

It's not Pathfinder but backwards compatibility is backwards. Even if you didn't count Complete Arcane spells take up a lot of room in their books, I can't imagine being able to store an infinite number of spells on my body. Say the cap is raised to 100, what does the Magus do when they reach that limit? They can't use a spellbook.

Sounds to me like your trying to say the class has Spell Mastery for every spell that they know, and the tat's are just thematic. This is fine, Wizards can do the same thing, but you might as well call the cow for what it is.

Some quick things I noticed;

Glyph Scholars can cast Arcane Spells in light armor but are not proficient with said armor?

The human body has 80 "pages" of space to store spells, and every spell takes up a single "page" per level. A Glyph Scholar would run out of room before reaching double digit levels.

Hevyyd wrote:

Oh, I'm allowed to use Thri-Kreen?

Well, I was thinking Pathfinder only but I didn't state it in the first post so...

Is Thri-Kreen in pathfinder.

I also think you must be able to squeese more attacks in.

Oh, you forgot hast.

I figured Speed weapons into my second build, since they don't play nice with haste and all. I'll leave this challenge to my betters, I've exhausted everything I can think of.

Fun challenge though. :D

Last I checked most lumberjacks have a higher Str score than 8, I mean, look at those biceps!

Maybe you should find a new calling Jo? I'm sure you have a wonderful singing voice.

Oh, I'm allowed to use Thri-Kreen?

One sec, napkin math.

Okay. So we're going Thri-Kreen Alchemist 4/Fighter 14. 4 levels of Alchemist gets us two vestigial arms for more yummy natural attacks, add that two multiattack and multiweapon fighting and I think we just hit 34 potential attacks per round.

19 on a full attack, and 15 AoO's on account of a Dex score of 38.

Heaven. Talk about getting a lot of mileage out of a first level spell.

Err, 23?

A TWF Fighter with a Dex score of 36, using speed on both weapons (don't remember if they play nice with each other or not), gets 9 attacks using a full attack action, and can AoO 14 times per round via Combat Reflexes.

I've just started playing an Oracle and, I have to say, I love it. I had tried playing a Cleric and it didn't go so well and it's a much better fit.

I've always been curious about the Mystic Theurge. Now, it's not a terribly practical prestige class but the fact that both the Oracle and Sorceror have very similar rates at which they learn spells, the number of spells they get per day, that they are spontaneous casters and they both draw from the same casting stat (Cha). Now, that seems like a chance for decent optimization.

But since it would take four levels of each class to qualify, I have to ask: to make a blasty caster what Bloodline and Mystery combination would be most effective?

You would certainly have less MAD to worry about but I'm of the opinion Mystic Theurge is a trap and always will be. By the time you qualify your already several spell levels behind dedicated casters.

If you really want to stick it out I would go Heaven Oracle and Draconic Sorcerer.

Oh baby, I come back to the forums and look at all these delicious ideas abrewing! I'll try and hit everything in order.

@malebranche Your right abut the Monk/Wizard, normally I always give my NPC's the standard elite array for ability scores, so even if I import Kung-Fu genius mr. Monk is still going to be WAY too MAD.

The Oracle was going to have either the Heaven or Life mystery. Heaven would let her do NASTY things with Illusion (pattern) spells, and since those spells are free I would have more slots to play with for healing/buffing/maybe a blast or two. Life would make her an amazing healer, but the class I designed for my friend already has a lot of self-healing potential, so I might go for a more offensive build in Heaven.

@Vuvu I love love LOVE the idea of using the Warrior NPC class and having the main PC train him to become a stronger fighter! OMG I can feel the plot hooks forming already! Love the idea for teamwork feats as well. Gaaaah, I'm so excited right now!!!

Excuse me while I go roll these guys up.

That made me giggle just a little bit.

Some ideas brewing in my noggin include a Monk/Wizard/Enlightened Fist (take THAT backwards compatibility!), a Ranger, and a Barbarian. Hrm.

I'd go for bard (for arcane buffs and skills). If you need an NPC to help him infiltrate, I'd say that's the way to go.

If you want to make sure they don't outshine him, I have a couple suggestions:
Make them squishy, squishy casters.
Make one his little sister or a macguffin, whom he has to protect.
Because at least the Oracle is going to be charisma-based, try making them of a race that's not accepted in society (like they could both be part-fey in a society that hates fey, for example); that way, the PC will still have to be the "face" for the party and will get the most interaction time with the world.
Or make one (or, heck, both) a potential love interest.

Remember that the NPCs are going to be boring if they're just faceless, personality-less droids. He'll be a lot less concerned with them "outshining" him if he's invested in their characters.

Hope this helps!

While a Bard is a great idea, there's just one problem. I really don't like Bards.... I know, I know, it's a terrible thing for me to say about such a flexible and amazing class, but my first character ever was a Bard and I was teased constantly. Call it gaming PTSD. >.<

I'm not honestly worried about the NPC's outshining him, I usually normalize NPC stats, don't really optimize them, nor even play them to their fullest potential. My NPC's are memorable characters, and useful, but the players are always better.

Verdict is out on potential love interest, we saw Immortals right after I told him about one NPC being an Oracle and after the movie he was already asking if he could tap that. God I love my friends.

What other class might you recommend outside Bard?

I'm going to be running a solo campaign for a good friend of mine soon. Partly because our other friends are flaky, and partly because I want to playtest a new base class I built for him without having other players feel like I'm not paying enough attention to them.

Long story short I'm making 2 npc's that will round out the party, but I'm having a tough time coming up with a character to fill slot #2.

So far I'm planning on an Oracle who will be mostly party support/buffs and a little bit of healing and whatever debuffs I can swing for good measure.

my friend's character class is best described as a tome of battle-type melee fighter. It's more complex than that but it'd take too long to explain.

What would compliment that well? I was thinking an arcane caster or maybe a skill user, but I'm looking through my books and nothing is jumping out at me. The npc's aren't really there to outshine him, just smooth out the edges and help him on his way.

Any suggestions?

All I can think of off the top of my head is that your missing Feral Spirit and Maelstrom Weapon. In it's current form the class feels like a 3.5 Dragon Shaman with shiny toys to throw around.

The Enhancment Shaman is a caster who fights, not a fighter who casts. Give him spells and try to capture the class as a whole, rather than a specific spec. For example I would rather you make the Shaman Class in it's entirety, and then make Restoration, Enhancement, and Elemental Combat character Archetypes. This would go a long way to improve the versatility, and longevity of the class.

if your having trouble making class tables, etc. use Google Docs and then post a link in the thread. It's easier on you since a Doc can be updated as you change around ideas.

~Hevyyd

Hevyyd wrote:

I did a 3.5 conversion of the Death Knight class. Turning it into a 20-level Base Class, as well as importing most if not all of it's abilities into the D20 System.

I a in the middle of fine-tuning it for Pathfinder, as well as smoothing out the gameplay. The original can be found HERE, take it as you will.

Could you please check access settings? It seems it does not allow public viewing.

Apologies, I've changed the settings, should be good to go now.

@LazarX; The problem with the Death Knight Prestige Class was that it was really, and I mean really, bad. Furthermore it didn't have any of the Death Knight flavor found in WoW. That may be fine for WC3 fans, but my spin on the class brings the MMO to the table, as it were.

As far as the whole "level 1 DK" shtick, not all DK's are created equal, yes I know they all start out at level 55, but by the time your done with the questing zone your no better/worse than any of the other classes.

Suspension of disbelief goes a long way. But that's my opinion, you are of course, entitled to yours.

I did a 3.5 conversion of the Death Knight class. Turning it into a 20-level Base Class, as well as importing most if not all of it's abilities into the D20 System.

I a in the middle of fine-tuning it for Pathfinder, as well as smoothing out the gameplay. The original can be found HERE, take it as you will.

hurrah! I found posts from last year! >.>

Now if people in the LA area will just read the forums I can finally be gaming again >.>

bump for ultimate sadness :(

I haven't been able to game in months @.@

If anyone has a group going on and doesn't mind an experienced player, let me know. The thought of trying to find a group to game with in LA is terrifying.

Just as an addendum this is my first time making a thread like this so if I need to fix anything or add more info just let me know, thanks.