Greedalox's page

Wow! So many great responses to this thread. Keep em coming.

Also, I have something extremely important to say.............

We need a Goblin Flag!!!!!! It turns the player into a Goblin as long as they are flagged! In addition your abilities are replaced with a limited set of Goblin based abilities. Thus turning yourself into content for others and looking extremely cool doing it!!!!! See my avatar? You too could be this handsome.

Im only half joking :b

Im starting to get really annoyed with this thread.

Let me say this. If all some of you want is an additional reputation system that is based more on personal feelings and the need to better manage your settlement. Then I don't think its necessary but if the devs put it in great, fine whatever.

Now to everyone that wants to do away with positive rep from SAD, do away with SAD altogether, or actually work together in a massive effort to effectively make it useless to even try...... Could you please stop this insanity. I hear people saying they want meaningful PvP and they want the excitement and danger of PvP, but they want to cut off any chance for rep gain (the existing system)from SAD. Because you are either IC or OOC opposed to Bandits.

I get that you don't like Bandits and don't think they should get rep gain. But if you take away SAD (actually or functionally)then you are taking away meaningful PvP when it comes to Bandits. This means that I have no real reason to try to be a "good" bandit or to even try to be CN. At this point you are hampering my gameplay purposely to spite me, and are leaving me little choice but to play as a "bad" bandit and as CE. In other words, not because I want to but because you have forced it upon me by effectively castrating SAD. It will de-evolve just as Bluddwolf has said. And the crazy part is you were the very ones to bring it upon yourselves. I frankly just don't even understand this, it seems a French fry short of a happy meal.

I personally wont be griefing, but are you trying to attract THAT type of Banditry? Do you want what Andius and others have been worried about for a long time? With the current restriction on what reasonable PvP is most of the crazy KoS RPKing will all but disappear. Even bandits will see the merits of playing better through SAD to gain rep so that they can progress in the game. Trust me, I want to gain training and such. If I wanted to play Call Of Duty online..... I would go play that. Scary, but I think I just channeled Andius.

DEVS!!!! Are you monitoring this thread? You should be.

What will you do to fix reputation for bandits or work around the need for it (can get training at NPC Bandit Faction for example) if the community collectively convinces you to take away rep gain from SAD? Or worse if the community works together en masse to undermine SAD? Purposefully exploiting intended game systems seems like a ban worthy offense to me!!!

You know it made mine! I only wish I could be a Goblin, but Id settle for the butt taunt ^.^

An Evil Cook! How would that work................

Greed-o-vision:

Come right in hated customer. Take a seat. Whats that? Someone put tacks in your seat. Oh dont worry about that I just paralyzed your body. Now stay right there and Ill bring out a true cullinary abortion....... Ah youre still here (snickers). Now hold still while I put in this funnel down your throat, I wouldnt want the taste to accidentally trigger your upchuck response. Here let me forcefeed you this disgusting and depraved dish. Isnt it horrible. Good......... Excellent. Now my nomal price for that dish is 4 gold, but for you ill just take all your money. Lets see, 2700 gold, that sounds fair. Ok all thats left is to knock you over the head, throw your body in a dark alley, and wish you good luck. What? Oh yea, didnt I tell you? Your food has a lethal poison with delayed action.

A few months later:
(Sigh) whats wrong with me? Well my business went under. I just dont understand what went wrong. I strived to offer the best in absolute evil customer service,........... Yet for some reason, I never get repeat business. Truly mind boggling?????

Great Blog. I definately like this alignment system better than the old one.

That being said Im still worried about lack of training due to unpopular alignments. Maybe between this blog and the settlement indexes a dev could clarify something for me. I know certain indeces and good reputation will be required for training certain classes.

What I dont know is if every archetype class will also require specific alignment or if that only applies to classes like Paladin? Put another way, will a settlement have to be chaotic to offer rogue training or just have to have good civilization index?

Yes. It is indeed called collision detection. I have played a couple of MMOs that purposefully implemented it for "physically" body blocking people in PvP. Though most MMOs seem to let you just pass through eachother. While I dont see anything wrong with that for a PvE only game, it doesnt jive with me for it not to be implemented for a PvP game. Especially ones that already have things like friendly fire. Using a wall of bodies to protect a gate entrance after a siege weapon has broken through would be an awesome and very "tank" worthy last line of defense. But they would be killable, so no abuse could happen.

Sorry for the slight hijack Hobs. ^.^

Also, I like this idea a lot. Anything that makes me think more for every action I take in battle seems like a good thing in my mind. Boring tank and spank style MMO combat and jumping around eachother like lunatics has to stop.

*Official Greedalox Seal of Approval*

Hmmm. A lot of the things you are talking about are either PvE or themepark in nature.

1. There will be no raids. Unless by raid you mean a raid on enemy holdings in open PvP.

2. We will be having a classless system. Build your char however you like.

3. Most of the world will be open. The lone exceptions are dungeons which are fairly limited (especially at launch)PvE experiences. In the more distant future they eventually want to do user generated content. But still instanced, and not a typical themepark raid.

4. Risk vs Reward will mostly be tied to PvP encounters, even for crafters. But hey there are corpse runs.... if ya make it in time.

Hobs the Short wrote:

Bandits are going to have to rough up/kill their targets now and again to be taken seriously or they'll lose the fear factor that makes people accept SAD. Otherwise, you become road-side beggars.

Bandits are roadside beggars. They deem themselves too good to earn an honest living and must take what others work for. I judge them to be lazy good for nothings. (I am sure they consider themselves hard working entrepreneurs. Strange how the law doesn't share their opinion.)

Hey Now that hurts. Im not a lazy good for nothing. It takes effort and will to get up before noon from a hangover and find people to rob.

@ Stephen Cheney

LOL dude, too funny.

Greedalox wrote:

P.S. If I want to roleplay as a Buddhist or make up the religion of Greedalox, then having alignments give me limited access to how I would roleplay. Maybe I worship a mad god that is 1 part LG and 2 parts CE

When you roleplay you are constrained by your toolset, in this case you have the official pathfinder toolset. RPing a buddhist, or any fictional construct outside of core pathfinder lore isn't possible within the constraints of PFO, and there should not be any effort by GW to make things like that possible.

Listen man I was simply trying to make a point. So Im just gonna agree to disagree. Maybe you are limited by a toolset, but Ill see you in PFO. Ill be the one RPing as John Conner on a quest to save the River Kingdoms from judgement day, as I worship a satelite named Zebra, and do Banditry on the side to fund my charity to Feed the Children.

You're over-thinking it. To me its a non-issue. Just because gear is color coded for identifying strength of gear, doesnt mean the game has turned into WoW.

I like the idea of no gear degradation too. So instead of a negative re-enforcement for ensuring crafting/gathering are needed, you guys are using postive re-enforcement through consumables that give bonuses but are temporary. I am always a fan of positive re-enforcement rather than negative when it can be applied. This combined with inevitable (sooner or later) item loss through PvP should work fine.

I do have a question though. Will there be any options for not making an "honest" living beyond being a bandit. Like if I invade a goblin cave, and kill all the goblins will I be able to loot a treasure chest filled with some coin or something? Or maybe a treasure map where X marks the spot and I find a bag of coin?

I understand you dont want people finding awesome gear from PvE, and thats fine, but if Im neither a thief, a gatherer, or a crafter what other options might I have as an explorer that likes to make trouble for the the local goblinoids?

@ Mbando

This right here is awesome:

Maybe that bums you out. Maybe you can't see how this design philosophy would be fun or makes sense. If that's the case, you're not thinking through where scenario A takes you.

•Maybe Bluudwolf and his gang of hoods are highly reputable, and the best solution is to negotiate a flat flee in an extortion racket. You've solved a social problem, and can get back to business.
•But maybe you're like "F--- this" and decide you need to talk to Peace Through Vigilance and Pax Aeternum, and work with people like me to bring people like Bluudwolf to justice
•And maybe that means our Company and Pax increase patrolling activities in that hex, which pisses off a LE settlement in the adjoining hex
•And maybe that leads to a confrontation where a large force of Asmodeus-worpshipping bastards decides to take the first swing and winds up killing half my squad
•And maybe that leads to an immediate declaration of war, and the River Alliance fulfills their obligation and sends armies to war against the Dark Forged
•And maybe when we ask the Empyrean Order to help tilt the scales in favor of the forces of good, Andius buffs his fingernails on his coat is all like "Yeaaaaaa, well, we'd love to help. Really. Too bad you didn't sign our treaty. Hands are tied--sorry..."
•And so on

That's the point of this game in large part.

I like you, I dont care what alignment you are. Remind me to have a sit down, and buy you some ale once we get in game. That scenario is exactly the sort of thing I think about, and it sounds fun as hell.

@ Stephen Cheney

"Nope, I'm happy where I am, thanks, you can keep your points" for people that want to stay Chaotic, Evil, or some shade of Neutral.

I like this. Im guessing you would be able to refuse positive alignment shifts, but not negative. So if you want to stay neutral you could refuse positive points, but youd still have to behave yourself to avoid negative points.

I know character and armor design direction has been answered.

But what about the world we will live in?

Eye-popping color? Sparkley shimers in the air? Cartoony Building?

Or

Gritty, dark, and more realistic?

For example: More like WoW or more like Darkfall?

Or will it be something in between?

It wont really matter to me as long as the gameplay is good, I will still play. Im just more curious than anything else. Though I will admit my preference is something more along the lines of Dark Souls or Demons Souls. Something where you always feel an ominous aura or something.

Though a seperate topic, I do believe background music plays a huge part in this as well.

Thoughts? Opinions? Facts?

Im beginning to think its as a couple have said already. GW is concentrating so much on anti-griefing tactics, it is blinding them to the lack of ballance this creates for meaningful PvP.

I think this alignment system is getting a bit out of hand too. Its nice they are trying to make it more true to the TT version, but not at the expense of making the game fun.

Law vs Chaos seems ok the way they describe how it will work.

Good vs Evil is sounding a bit fruity. I dont expect it to try to accuarately reflect good vs evil, besides its often in the eye of the beholder. Like durring the early days of the Church: Roman Catholic vs Eastern Orthidox. For all points and purposes each thought they were right and the other was wrong, so each called the called other side EVIL. What about Samurai in fuedal Japan? With them it was more like might made right, the losers were called evil.

I think Good vs Evil should be more of a state of mind that you choose to side with, and that way everyone I enteract with will know where I stand at all times. I want to be neutral and play both sides, I fins=d it very unrealistic to have my alignment swing like a pendalum everytime I work for opposing teams. Its not like I have actually become or support the ideaology of good or evil. So Id rather just choose G, N, or E, and stick with it, and have a lengthy quest(with like a 6 month waiting period before you can do it again possibly longer) to become different if I change my mind.

In short good vs evil is too complex and makes things a bit wierd in trying to make it into an alignment system.

Reputation seems like it could be a bit off too. What about contracts? I assume contracts are one of the main things that effect reputation based on how faithfully you carried them out. Now they want to attach murder to loweing reputation? Thats not right. Seems to me they need to have 2 different categories: one that is based on contracts and one that is based on your presonal behavior outside of contracts. I think its unfair for someone to possibly not trust or want to deal witt me even if I have done and will do all contracts faithfully.

Bounty Hunters shouldnt have that much personal information on my character. If they want to give them tracking abilities to take them right to me then thats fine, but they shouldnt have access to my associates and dealings. That should be the job of information brokers, if the bounty hunter wants to take extra steps and try to buy that info themselves then so be it.

Death Curse: This is the most ridiculous thing yet. Its completely unballances and it will have the exact opposite effect of its intended use. If you dont give some criminals a little hope, all you are doing is fueling their "I dont give a damn" attitude". Because you make it impossible for PvPers to want to carry anything of value even threaded. So they will carry crap gear and have no fear of loss and therefore no fear of adopting a "KoS anything that moves" stance. Then they will eventaully leave out of boredom. Then the bounty hunters have nothing to do, and the economy is not held in check. Sounds pretty boring.

Or the merchant could use the contract system and keep people employed to gaurd his caravan?

The system works if there is a ballance: Caravan Gaurds <---> Caravan Bandits. Bounty <--> Assassin contracts..... kinda. Infinity Bounty <---> nothing. Death Curse <---> nothing.

I understand people are worried about griefing, but frankly Id rather there be a system in place that limits how often player A can kill player B, then all this craziness. Because honestly I would not be doing it too often, outside of a contract.

And I cant understand how anyone can say with a straight face that infinity bounty would not be griefing. Look at your selves in the mirror and say it. If this is what you truly believe (and I have my doubts, PvE conspiracies and such), then we are at an empasse. Because there is nothing you ca say to convince me otherwise. A bounty system, even with a few renewals is fine, the death curse seems a bit one-sided, but could be ok if implemented well. However, if an infinity bounty system is not griefing then Im Peter Pan.

Chiassa wrote:

It's worth noting that the major dissenting voice - Bluddwolf - is the voice of The UnNamed Company, so this wasn't some random person raising objections, but instead one guild's representative taking part in a discussion for guild representatives.

Oh that's soooooooo cute. You think he was "discussing"!

Call it what you will. It doesnt change the fact that Bluddwolf has brought up legitimate concerns. I say as crowdforgers we help GW devlop anti-griefing measures. They said in their blog they were commited to doing so. I say we hold them to it, and help them develop what those "appropriate" measures are. And the mechanics of those measures could either straight up physically prevent griefing, or Flag individuals for GWs to review and interview about the griefing incident(s), and perma-ban if guilty (it needs to be obvious). And the same thing for gold farmers, gold buyers, hackers, exploiters, etc, etc.

My biggest issue is with how certain groups (people more interested in PvE or LG) might define greifing. The next big issue is that anti-greifing tactics that have been proposed by GW in the dev blog seem excessive and over the top. Anti-greifing measures are on thing, but anti-PvP will just break the game and ruin content generation that develops because of PvP Ganks.

And yes unforseen griefing methods or those not able to be detected by code or mechanic will happen. But if it really is griefing then it needs to be brought to GW attention so that a mechanic for dealing with it will be enabled, or in the case of isolated incedents the griefers can be perma-banned.