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Sovereign Court

Question: Can a cleric casting water walk go up a waterfall?

Before I get into the arguments for/against, here is the Pathfinder SRD spell definition for Water Walk:

The transmuted creatures can tread on any liquid as if it were firm ground. Mud, oil, snow, quicksand, running water, ice, and even lava can be traversed easily, since the subjects' feet hover an inch or two above the surface. Creatures crossing molten lava still take damage from the heat because they are near it. The subjects can walk, run, charge, or otherwise move across the surface as if it were normal ground.

If the spell is cast underwater (or while the subjects are partially or wholly submerged in whatever liquid they are in), the subjects are borne toward the surface at 60 feet per round until they can stand on it.

Player argument 1: The spell says "tread on any liquid as if it were firm ground, and walk/run/charge across the surface as normal ground," so I should be able to walk right up it.

GM argument 1: You can't defy gravity!

Plaryer argument 2: Oh yes I can! I float a couple inches above the water...I'm already defying gravity! The fact that if I were underwater and I'd get sent to the surface at 60 feet per round defies gravity too. Why else do you sink when you go into water? Gravity!

GM argument 2: Whatever, but you when you get to the waterfall it's "normal ground" you'd have to make climb checks to make it to the top and defy gravity any more than the two inches.Plus it would be a sheer, slippery surface.

Player argument 3: Why? It clearly says "running water" in the spell description. I should be able to walk right up. Besides, it wouldn't be slippery to me because I'm floating above it.

GM argument 3: Well, then maybe if you had slippers of spider climb you could do it, but until then I rule that you have to make climb checks.

Player argument 4: Whatever, I'll just walk under the waterfall itself and become partially or wholly submerged to be launched toward the surface at 60 feet per round. How high is the waterfall?

GM argument 4: It doesn't matter how high it is, the surface is not where the water is coming from, the surface is the side away from the cliff. Climb checks please.

Player argument 5: There'd be nothing to grab onto to make climb checks, I'm floating two inches from the "surface." Read the spell description again, it says I'm bourne toward the surface until I can "stand on it." By your reasoning, it would put me back trying to walk up the sheer surface, but not be able to "stand on it." So once partially submerged under the waterfall I'd get launched to the top.

GM argument 5: Ha! You'd have better luck polymorphing yourself into a salmon and try to swim up it.

Player argument 6: Fine, just think of this. The spell water walk was inspired by the story of Jesus walking on the water. You're telling me, that Jesus couldn't walk right up the waterfall? I fall back to my primary stance that it clearly says "running water."

GM argument 6: You're not "God of the water!"

Player argument 7: No, but my god granted me the power to walk on it for an hour! Besides, I can't polymorph, I'm a cleric.

GM argument 7: Whatever, post your question on the Paizo FAQ so I can school you later. You're at the top of the waterfall.

I looked all over for a resolution on this, but couldn't find a thing. I'm not going to reveal whether I was the player or the GM in this instance for fairness of the discussion.

Let the argument begin!

Doc Brown

Sovereign Court

I'd like to post my thanks to everyone who worked so hard on the Pathfinder events at GENCON 2009! Even more organized and smooth than last year...great games, awesome GMs! I'm looking forward to next year!