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The Exchange

My sister, my wife and I run a trio of Elemental Blooded Alchemists of different Archetypes. (Ifrit Grenadier, Oraid Beastmorph, Sylph Crypt Breaker). My wifes Beastmorph is much more effective with a Mutagen active, and my Grenadier really doesn't need his, so... I regularly hand my Mutagen off to her as a back up.

The Exchange 5/5

Well... I've used the phrase:

"Drandl Drang woke me up in the middle of the night for THIS?!!!"

with a blistering invective, and had several enemies burst into flame before... would that count?

I guess I could start using the phrase "We're PATHFINDERs for gods sake!".

The Exchange 5/5

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Gozer "Bone Splitter" wrote:
I have almost never bought an item from a chronicle sheet and think besides having it for special items not normally found or out of fame level items, and items like wands with charges it should go. I would love to see a boon/ability/token whatever on every chronicle instead of some of the ones I have that have nothing but unusable loot. I literally have multiple chronicle sheets I wish I could throw out because they are all loot and provide no benefit to my characters.

and as I run a number of Exchange PCs who gain discounts (yeah 5%!)on items found on CRs I often pay close attention to the mundane items that appear...

The Exchange

here's one that is not a feat or class ability - just a spell that gives you an Intimidate check as a standard...
Blistering Invective.

Not EXACTLY what you were looking for, but maybe it'll work? The advantage is it hits all your enemies in range, not just a single target...

The Exchange

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We do Alchemists...

Melee is an Oraid Alchemist (Beast Morph) with Feral Mutigen.

Traps are covered with a Sylph Alchemist (Cryptbraker).

Face is covered with an Ifrit Alchemist (Grenadier)...

We all have Bombs, Extracts, Various Knowledge skills, Healing, Stealth, Buffs, and Alchemical Crafting...

And at 6th level we all took the Wings Discovery - which means we all have flight now (6+ minutes in 1 minute increments).

Originally we had another Alchemist (an Undean to get one of each element) - but now we just adventure as Earth, Wind and Fire.

The Exchange

I'm really really sorry to raise mirror image in this thread again... but in re-reading the earlier posts I began to wonder about something...

If an alchemist throws a bomb at a creature that has the spell mirror image active, and the random roll indicates that he hits an Image (or he misses the target by less than 5 and so hits an Image)... is the bomb "triggered"? This would mean that having the mirror image spell active makes someone an easier target to hit with bomb damage...

The Exchange 5/5

captnchuck67 wrote:
Wow , that really makes my rouge useful in so many more ways now.

perhaps a little blusher more on the left side...

Why? perhaps you/we are missing something? Sneak dice for example, are not applied to splash damage.

and using very many of these can get expensive (plus they can get to be heavy...).

The Exchange 5/5

which Alchemical weapons do you mean?

Fuse grenades? Pellet grenades? yeah - you can buy them and use them. In fact, Alchemist can even craft them - so they get them at 1/3 cost.

Acid, Alchemist's fire, Alkali flasks are sort of standard items to have on hand (Swarms are a thing in PFS).

The only one I would question would be Stingchucks, and that's due to it not actually having a listed Price. (it's a weapon that makes me say Eeeuw! anyway. Yuck...)

The Exchange

"Hi! I'm Friendly! But you can call me 'Fire' if you want to! And I'd like to take this time to formally apologize for setting y'all on fire! Just on the off chance that it should happen." Big grin!

"I've got Blistering Invective and a really high Intimidate skill and can people on fire in groups! - but not normally my friends!"

change of voice to be OOC - "I'm running an Ifrit Alchemist who's a good "Face" PC, so I can handle most of the Social Skills, as well as the standard Alchemist stuff - Fire Bombs, Alchemical items, etc..."

this added with my table tent let's the other players know a good bit about my PC, and what he "brings to the party..."

Ifrit Alchemist. The "Face" of a group of Alchemists ("Earth, Wind and Fire" - all boon characters, from before they were "open races". We got an Undine to join us, but he doesn't play much... he's "all wet"), we're up to 7th level now and getting a lot of play in Season 8... We also refer to ourselves as Elemental Alchemists...

Originally we were going to build Bards... but the Sylph player wanted to run a Crypt Breaker Alchemist, and as we only had one Boon each... We created them back before they were open access.

The Exchange

Gray Warden wrote:
a) You choose which Int bonus survives. The type depends on such choice.

Who decides this? The Judge or the Player?

Gray Warden wrote:


b) To the arrow damage.

Why?

Link to FAQ.

this is important to me because if I use a Tangleshot arrow then attach an Liquid Ice or Bomb to it, then the arrow doesn't do HP damage, but both the Liquid Ice and the Bomb would... so I would hope the PBS would add to one of those...

Gray Warden wrote:


c) Yes, that's bomb extra damage (in other words, your bomb damage is not 3d6, but 3d6+3), it does not depends on Int.

Thanks!

The Exchange

What about

Clustered Shots:
: You take a moment to carefully aim your shots, causing them all to strike nearly the same spot.

Prerequisites: Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: When you use a full-attack action to make multiple ranged weapon attacks against the same opponent, total the damage from all hits before applying that opponent’s damage reduction.

Special: If the massive damage optional rule is being used (Core Rulebook 189), that rule applies if the total damage you deal with this feat is equal to or exceeds half the opponent’s full normal hit points (minimum 50 points of damage).

would the damage total only count STR bonuses once? so if an archer hits with a Composite Longbow (STR-18) 4 times, they would do 4d8+4 instead of 4d8+14. Is that correct?

The Exchange

Gray Warden wrote:
Kyron "Death Knell" Shess wrote:
You arent making one roll. It is several rolls. That faq ruling would be applicable if you were trying to add Int multiple times to the attack roll, or to the arrow damage roll. Bomb damage is separate from splash weapon damage is separate from arrow damage.

Please. The roll is one: a single DAMAGE roll associated to a single ATTACK roll. It's not the number of dice rolled that determines the multiplicity of the roll.

This exact same topic has been tackled over and over on this forum, and in every thread after the FAQ came out, the final answer is very clear: you can not add multiple times Int to damage.

Also, do you really think it makes sense according to the game mechanics?

so, what type of damage is the INT bonus in the case above?

Fire, Cold or Positive Energy? And where does the Point Blank Shot bonus damage get added? And what about the Favored Class Bonus damage?

Sorry - that's a lot of questions. Here, I'll put these into a better list...

a) what type of damage is the INT bonus in the case above? (Fire, Cold, Positive Energy or some combination of the above?)
b) where does the Point Blank Shot bonus damage get added?
c) what about the Favored Class Bonus damage, does it get added if the INT bonus isn't Fire damage?

Thanks again everybody!

The Exchange

Gray Warden wrote:
According to a FAQ (that you can easily find yourself), you can only add Int (or any other modifier) once to any roll. So no 4xInt shenanigans to damage. The target gets all base damages (1d8 + 3d6 + 1d6 + 2d4) + Str if the bow is composite + Int from one of the effects. You choose the type of damage associated to the Int bonus (fire if it comes from the bomb, cold if from the liquid ice, etc).

Sorry Gray Warden, clearly I am not as awesome as some people. I often can't find ANYTHING in the FAQ. Which section would the entry that you are referencing be in?

The Exchange

Ok, I have a grenadier alchemist that is 6th level (about to be 7th), and I'm having some trouble getting my head wrapped around how his mechanics work. So I think I'm going to need some other players to Aid me on this...

I've got a Composite Longbow and I draw a:

Raining Arrow:
: This thick-shafted arrow contains a reservoir of holy water and is designed to burst upon impact. A raining arrow damages the target as normal, and also treats the target as though it had been struck by a direct hit from a thrown vial of holy water; adjacent creatures take splash damage from this effect. A raining arrow imparts a –2 penalty on attack rolls because of its weight. A raining arrow costs 30 gp, and can be crafted with a successful DC 25 Craft (alchemy) check.
on which I use:

Alchemical Weapon:
: At 2nd level, a grenadier can infuse a weapon or piece of ammunition with a single harmful alchemical liquid or powder, such as alchemist’s fire or sneezing powder, as a move action. This action consumes the alchemical item, but transfers its effect to the weapon in question. The alchemical item takes full effect on the next creature struck by the weapon, but does not splash, spread, or otherwise affect additional targets. Any extra damage added is treated like bonus dice of damage, and is not doubled on a critical hit. The alchemical treatment causes no harm to the weapon treated, and wears off 1 minute after application if no blow is struck. At 6th level, a grenadier can use her alchemical weapon ability as a swift action. At 15th level, this ability becomes a free action. This ability replaces poison resistance.
as a swift action, which allows me to attach a flask of Liquid Ice to the arrow.

I then use the Discovery:

Explosive Missile:
: As a standard action, the alchemist can infuse a single arrow, crossbow bolt, or one-handed firearm bullet with the power of his bomb, load the ammunition, and shoot the ranged weapon. He must be proficient with the weapon in order to accomplish this. When the infused ammunition hits its target, it deals damage normally and detonates as if the alchemist had thrown the bomb at the target. If the explosive missile misses, it does not detonate. An alchemist must be at least 4th level before selecting this discovery.
to attach a Bomb to the arrow and shot it at the target...

Now, if it hits (-2 to hit with a Raining Arrow)... what does it do?

Raining Arrow counts as a Hit with an arrow (1d8+STR)
Plus a hit with a flask of Holy Water... which does 2d4 positive energy damage to undead and evil outsiders...
The Alchemical Weapon item (Liquid Ice) "takes full effect on the next creature struck by the weapon, but does not splash, spread, or otherwise affect additional targets" so it does 1d6 Cold damage.
The Bomb (from Explosive Missile) "deals damage normally and detonates as if the alchemist had thrown the bomb at the target."...

So... which (if any) of these also get bonus damage from the Alchemists

Throw Anything:
: (Ex): All alchemists gain the Throw Anything feat as a bonus feat at 1st level. An alchemist adds his Intelligence modifier to damage done with splash weapons, including the splash damage if any. This bonus damage is already included in the bomb class feature.
ability?

Do I add the INT Modifier to damage done with:
#1) the Bomb? (3d6 fire)
#2) the Liquid Ice? (1d6 cold)
#3) the Holy Water/Raining Arrow? (2d4 Positive Energy)

If it only adds to one of these damages - which one? Each is a different energy type of damage, and so it often matters.

#4) (I guess) This is also complicated by the fact that the PC is an Ifrit, and has taken the Favored Class Bonus of "Extra Bomb damage +1/2" 7 times so it does +3.5 damage on BOMB damage... so if the INT bonus is added to #2 or #3, but not to #1, is the Favored Class Bonus of 3.5 points then added to #1

#5) And how about Point Blank Shot? Would it add a point of damage to one or more of these?

Thank you in advance for your time...

The Exchange 5/5

The Raven Black wrote:
Tallow wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Mark Stratton wrote:
Ragoz wrote:
My problem stems from how despite there being no reason for parity to exist in Pathfinder we are still going through several years of mechanically ruined characters, tens to hundreds of dollars of books purchases being invalidated, and can't take steps to making changes more palatable.

Those purchases aren't invalidated. They are still perfectly good for virtually every other game of Pathfinder, with the exception of PFS. These books are written for PFRPG. Campaign Leadership finds ways to incorporate them. Sometimes those ways later become problematic.

But to say those purchases are invalidated is a canard. Let's try to avoid such hyperbole, please.

Why would anyone in recent years buy the PFS Field Guide that was published 6 years ago if not for its player options ?

And more accurately for being allowed to use said options when building a PFS character ?

I know I did buy it for that express purpose when it came out those 6 years ago and I think I was not alone in this

When these options are invalidated, that book becomes useless to me. Yet I do not believe that I will be entitled to a refund

FWIW, I think the sales of the PFS Field Guide are likely to take a big nosedive

There are more than one option in the Field Guide.

You are assuming that sales of this option are significant enough that a nosedive will be significant.

Which options left untouched are attractive enough to PFS players that they will buy the Field Guide just so they can use them ?

And I would like real options used on real builds, not theorycrafting

I do not think there are that many popular options left in it now, but I might be mistaken

I am ... speechless. There are SO MANY things I use in this one book. I have close to 40 PCs now, and the only ones that don't use this for SOMETHING are my CORE characters.

Jade Wayfinder enhancement - 2PP to get a +1 on almost any skill check.

Messenger Wayfinder enhancement - a bit steep at 5PP, but a still about the only way to get unlimited use of the message spell.

So many Vanities...

Several of the spells...

Trapspingers Gloves...several other of the Magic items...

Agile weapon enhancement...

Adventuring Kits (most of my PCs start with the Pathfinders Kit).

(Posting this as my Grenadier Alchemist)...

And GOODNESS!!!! Master of Trade is from this book!

edit: wait... was your post meant as sarcasm Raven? If so, I missed it, sorry!

The Exchange

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If an alchemist throws a bomb at a creature that has the spell mirror image active, and the random roll indicates that he hits an Image (or he misses the target by less than 5 and hits an Image)... is the bomb "triggered"?

Is contact with an illusion enough to count as the "impact" some people feel is required for a bomb to detonate?

Does an Illusion have more "substance" than an Incorporeal creature?

I normally rule that a bomb (not a acid flask or other item that has to be drawn) travels to the target location (or the location of the miss if it missed) and detonates there. This saves me from having to rule that the bomb continued until it impacted something that would set it off. A "miss" goes to the spot indicated by the existing rules on misses. Roll a d8. It went one square in the indicated direction per range increment, and detonated at that

point in space:
, be it an intersection or a square - realizing that only creatures and intersections can be targets, not squares. The only way to hit a square rather than a creature or interception is to target a creature and miss
. I find this to be much simpler than trying to figure the flight path of a bomb - and deciding if it hit a leaf or twig of this bush and detonates (would that set it off?), or flew 30 feet past the target to impact the first "hard surface" in line of flight. Did it travel DOWN into the pit behind the target? Did it hit the pit wall, or go 50 feet (maybe more than it's max range?) to the ground and thus hit the PC in the pit - but not splash the monster beside the pit?

Much easier to just roll the miss, point at the spot indicated by the roll, and declare it "an air burst" and move on.

The Exchange

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Klorox wrote:
Is that an official ruling or just some kind of house rule?
Unofficial. It makes sense in that an incorporeal creature shouldn't set off something that requires impact to detonate, but then you have to remember these things are magic and common sense doesn't really apply.

why do you think alchemists bombs detonate on impact? or even require impact to be set off? just wondering where that comes from?

If the target of a bomb is flying, and the alchemist misses... does the bomb fall all the way to the ground before detonating? what if it is more than 100 feet to the ground (greater than the range of the bomb)?or does it detonate as dictated in the rules on missing with a bomb (roll d8 for direction and one square per range increment...)?

The Exchange

Cast Raise Thread what's a little Thread Necromancy between gamers?

In the Advanced Class guide is the Alchemical item -
Holy Weapon Balm:
"This violet balm comes in a small ceramic pot. When applied to a weapon as a standard action, it forms a transparent coating. Weapons coated in this balm deal an additional 2d4 points of damage to undead or evil outsiders. A creature affected by the balm must succeed at a DC 10 Reflex save or take an additional 1d4 points of damage the following round. Any nonmagical weapon coated with the balm affects incorporeal undead or evil outsiders as if it were a magic weapon. Any magic weapon coated with the balm affects incorporeal undead or evil outsiders as if the weapon had the ghost touch special ability. The balm remains effective until you make a successful attack with the weapon or until 1 minute has passed, whichever comes first. Each dose of balm can coat one weapon or 10 pieces of ammunition."

So - I am assuming that an arrow with Holy Weapon Balm on it, fired from a (+1) magic bow would count as "Any magic weapon coated with the balm..." and so would affect incorporeal undead and evil outsider as if the weapon had the ghost touch special ability... not that that does that much for the evil outsiders (are there any that count as incorporeal?)

Is that correct? Or am I mixed up on how this works again?

The Exchange 5/5

While I have/own "Pathfinder Player Companion: Elves of Golarion", I was planning on using the Access from the "Pathfinder Player Companion: Alchemy Manual" as it has more types of arrows (or at least seems to have more). That way I don't have to lug around as many books...

it's just that I keep bumping into players at the local venue that will say things like: "oh, that's been changed in an FAQ..." or "That's not legal..." ... it's trying to push me back into just playing CORE. To many arguments any more.

The "buy them in 50" is just avoiding another argument about whether I can buy them in smaller lots (without a special Boon for it, after all "they wouldn't have created a Boon if you could just buy them without it!" shesh...) :-(

anyway - thanks everyone for the reassurance...

The Exchange 5/5

I have been told that durable adamantine arrows - and in fact durable arrows - are not PFS legal...
wha...?

Not to say I don't take everything I hear at the PFS table as actually true, but...

Is this true?

I had planned to drop 3050 GP to pick up a quiver of 50... can I do this in PFS?

The Exchange 5/5

The Alchemist Manual would give you access to Kyonin Alchemical Archery (Pages 20-21) which includes 10 Alchemical Arrow types. (Bleeding, Durable, Dye, Lodestone, Pheromone, Raining. Slow Burn, Splintercloud, Tangleshot, and Trip arrows). By far my favorite are the Raining arrows.

but then, as an Alchemist, I can craft them for a lot cheaper

The Exchange

Gwaihir Scout wrote:

Only things you're damaging with that combo are slugs and akatas.

(acid + alkali = water and a salt)

(Yes, yes, I know. My chemistry degree demands it.)

which is one of the reasons I love the combo in PFS! LOL!

that, and it's one of the cheapest to make (10gp + 15gp)...

The Exchange

an interesting "creation" with this is to "mix" an Acid flash and an Alkali flask, so the result does:

1d6 acid (Acid flask) damage plus 1d6 acid (Alkali flask) damage.

This does run into problems with something with acid resistance, as "affected as if it hit by both" means that both dice have their damage reduced by the resistance amount. My wife's' Oread alchemist looked at this early on, as it meant that being in the splash area of her own weapons wouldn't normally get thru her Acid Resistance 5. (1d6-5 acid, and 1d6-5 alkali). (Her INT bonus is only +2, so... depending on how it get's added in, it often is reduced away...)

The Exchange

I'm sorry, I guess I need to repeat the questions I was asking about...

1a) Does a living creature in the splash area HAVE to take a save, or can they "voluntarily fail" it?

1b) Does a target HAVE to count their DEX at part of their touch AC? (and related, can they count themselves as having less DEX? Say a DEX of zero for that "attack"?)

2) Does the Alchemist count their INT in the "splash damage" effect on Undead?

3a) Do Undead that get splashed get 1 or 2 Saves? And what type of save/saves? If only one is it Will or Reflex?

3b) Do Undead that gets hit get a Will save vs. the Extract/Potion? What is the DC calculated from?

4) If a Potion is used for the Healing Bomb, how do we calculate the DC for the Save/Saves? From the normal Bomb DC? or from the Potion DC? or from Both (Reflex for the Bomb DC, and Will for the Potion)?

5a) Can this "bomb" Crit? (if used for healing or if used for damage vs. undead?)

5b) If it can Crit, what's the damage if the attack scored a Crit? Would it double all the damage dice done, or just do an additional 1d6 (which is what a normal bomb would do)? For exp: Cure Moderate Wounds extract is used to damage undead so it does 2d8+LVL (and maybe +INT), but a critical hit is confirmed, so it does...
a) 4d8+(2xLVL) + (maybe 2xINT?)
b) 2d8+(LVL) + 1d6 + (maybe 2xINT?)

As before, this is for a PFS character, so I'm trying to get a feel for how most in the judges are likely to rule it... So I'll kind of know what way it's most likely to work most of the time - or if it is going to have so much table variation that it would be best to not even bother taking the Discovery.

as always! thanks for your time!

The Exchange

Friendly "Fire" wrote:
anything new on this yet? It's been a few months...

Any progress toward an answer to some of the questions on this yet?

The Exchange

Melkiador wrote:
Identify is on the alchemist list, so just save up what you want to identify and use it all in one go.

Idendify would only work on one item per level. First you would have to use one casting to determine what is magic currently in your sight, then you would need another casting of the spell to ID it (which is the biggest problem with using a Wand of it. You use one charge to locate items then you use one charge per item it ID them.) But it would work - though you are real limited in numbers of Extracts you have...

Duration is 3 rounds/level

Description: This spell functions as detect magic, except that it gives you a +10 enhancement bonus on Spellcraft checks made to identify the properties and command words of magic items in your possession. This spell does not allow you to identify artifacts.

The Exchange

Selvaxri wrote:
An Alchemist can pick up Arcane Sight as a 3rd level extract. Buy a scroll, and get it transcribed into your formula book.

but... you can't use 3rd level extracts until 7th level, and it only has a duration of minutes/level...

The Exchange

Most often my Alchemists (in PFS) will pick up a Discerning Wayfinder... but I have also seen PCs that get a Wand of identify.

The Exchange 5/5

Ferious Thune wrote:

They seem to be rotating GM convention boons every 3 months or so. I don't think Ratfolk is currently being given out (EDIT: Though it was earlier in the year), and I don't think conventions get to request which GM boon they receive. That may be different for the player/random boons that are handed out. If you look on the Boon Trading thread, what the current GM boon is and when it should change again is being tracked more closely.

There are many people willing to trade on the Boon trading thread. Usually the boons to unlock a certain race trade for boons to unlock a different race, but not always. My suggestion would be, once you're comfortable enough GMing, to try to obtain whatever the current GM convention boon is. If you don't want to play a character of that type, see if you can trade it for a Ratfolk.

Sometimes the "unlock a certain race" boon will be traded for one or more OTHER boons, depending on what a person wants. I for example, will normally trade away my Race Boons for interesting/fun/more useful boons to add to existing PCs.

The Exchange 5/5

Or find someone who is trading/giving away a Ratfolk. (I have given away the two I got so far...).

On the other hand, you can currently, for a limited time, create several races outside of the Core races - for example a Wayang (check them out, they are a little like a Eatfolk).

the Non-Core races seem to get rotated out every year or two. So if you want to start an Elemental Blooded PC for example (or a Wayang) - right now you can. But next year? maybe not.

The Exchange

for alchemists bombs there is Precise Bomb which excludes a number of squares up to his INT bonus from the AOE of his bomb.

and what is it you want to prevent me from? :-)

The Exchange

BigNorseWolf wrote:
has anyone ever caught a badguy unaware in their dungeon? really? With Sir Clanks a lot the paladin making negative 30 stealth checks?

Last game I played in we had the cleric with a -13 stealth check... so we used a couple "gimmicks" and got his -13 back to positive numbers and stuck him in the back of the party... (the comment was heard - "with a -13 Initiative modifier, you are 'Last'". So yeah, it's POSSIBLE, if we put some effort into it, and the judge allows it...

The Exchange

a point on Critical Hits with Splash Weapons often over looked...

The Alchemist does x2 damage - and that includes his INT bonus. (with his bombs only the Base Die is doubled - normally only +1d6 along with his INT bonus).

So a 5th level Alchemist that rolls a Crit would do 2d6+2INT with Liquid Ice or [(3d6+INT)+(1d6+INT) with his bomb] to whatever he hit.

The Exchange

sorry for the Thread Necro - but I've started playing my Grenadier again and now that I've taken the discovery Explosive Missile (UC - pg 24) some questions have popped up on how the shots are calculated....

I'm a 5th level Ifrit Grenadier, with an INT of 17(+3), and +2.5 HP to bomb damage (Ifrit racial Favored Class Bonus). Feats include Splash Weapon Mastery, Point Blank Shot, & Precise Shot

If I use:
a) a Raining Arrow with a Comp. Long Bow,
b) use the Alchemical Weapon (Su) ability to infuse the arrow with an Acid flask, (move action - and there is some question on if I need to have the Acid flask in hand at the start of the turn),
c) use Explosive Missile to infuse the arrow "with the power of his bomb", load and fire the arrow..., (as a standard action)...

What effects does it have?

a) The Raining Arrow is -2 to hit, and counts as both an arrow and a flask of Holy Water when it hits. (needing a standard AC to hit - but splashing the area around the target.... so against Undead or Evil Outsiders it will do 1d8 +STR(+0), +2d4 (Holy H2O), +INT(+3)
b) Acid damage with no Splash area, damage 1d6 +INT(+3?)
c) Bomb damage, Fire damage 3d6 +INT(+5?)

so... (-2+1 to hit), Damage 1d8(+1 PBS)(+2d4+3 Positive Energy)(+1d6+3 acid)(+3d6+5 fire) with a normal hit.

What about for a Crit? (3d8+3 Piercing)+(4d4+6 Holy)+(2d6+6 Acid)+(4d6+10 Fire)?

Did I calculate the Point Blank Shot correctly

The Exchange

Alchemist.... esp. with Infusion Discovery.

able to hand out shield potions.... wow... and so much more.

And Bombs! too!

The Exchange

some players feel that having an Alchemist in the party is problematic. SO, just to get it out of the way at the start of the adventure, I will take a moment during the VC briefing to turn to the other characters and say (IC):
"I want to formally apoligize for setting you on fire at some point during the upcoming adventure. I try to miniumize the times this occures, but every now and again it happens. Sorry!"

then, in my OOC voice: I have Splash Weapon Mastery (so I can shift the location of a "miss" slightly), Percise Bombs and a good dex. I regularly use Reduce Person (to increase DEX and to give another +1 to hit), but I still roll a "1" sometimes (seems to happen about 5% of the time!).

SO! I am aware of the chance each time I take a shot, I can miss. I will often throw at intersections beside the monster - as AC 5 is much easier to hit, and if I miss it is a smaller AOO.

I then in game will show people the gimmick of throwing at an intersection, adding another square on the edge (with Splash Weapon Mastery) and then excluding all 4 of the "normal" splass squares (Percise Bomb). This allows me to splash a monster, while targeting a spot 5' away, and not hit anything else. Combine this with Explosive Bomb and things get interesting.

The Exchange

#5 - Pick up a wand of CLW rather than prepping an Extract of it. (Unless you are a (Chirurgeon) archetype... or have Healing Bomb). Or mention to your traveling companions that you can use wands - they may have one to let you use until you get your own (which you should ASAP). And always try to leave at least one of your Extracts unprepared, it only takes a minute to prepare anything in your book... and you never know when you just might need that Comp. Languages (or Endure Elements or... so many choices!)

#6 - Invest a little personal time into learning the Crafting rules in PFS. You are one of the very few PCs who can craft things (Alchemical Items) and that means you get a bunch of stuff for 1/3 price... just be sure to push up your Craft Alchemy skill.

The Exchange

Entryhazard wrote:
Zhayne wrote:
Healing is not damage.
It's Positive Energy damage :^)

and it actually IS damage if used vs. Undead (and some other creatures).

The Exchange

extra credit questions

a) Can this "bomb" Crit? (for healing or damage vs. undead?)

b) what's the damage if the attack scored a Crit?

The Exchange

shadowkras wrote:

Let's see if i can answer.

1) It's a ranged touch attack, if you let them know about it before throwing it (they know you are trying to heal them), then you don't even need to make a check. Touching an ally in combat makes no distinction between melee or ranged attacks.

Quote:


Touch Spells in Combat: "You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll."

Of course, this rule is about ranged touch attacks caused by spells, not thrown weapons or bombs. But considering that you can hit a square with a DC 5 check, it isnt too much to assume that a standing ally willing to recieve a potion/flask on their head should be more difficult than a DC 10 plus distance modifiers, if deflection modifiers should apply is left at GM's discretion (which should consider that there is no "harm" on this attack).

2) No. The ability replaces your bomb damage (which includes the int mod) by the potion/extract values, so you deal damage equal to the same amount you would have healed if the creature wasn't undead. Also, the ability does not mention that your bombs become splash weapons.

3) One, a will save to reduce the damage by half.

4) It's important to note that the healing bomb is not exactly the same as the bomb, it replaces the "damage" text with the following:

Quote:
A creature that takes a direct hit from a healing bomb is healed as if she had imbibed the infusion or potion used to create the bomb

So, an undead targeted by a healing bomb would suffer the same damage and save against the same DC as they would if they had drank this potion.

The DC is based on the caster level of the item, which is usually the minimum level and ability score necessary to create the item. For a CLW potion, that would be CL 1 and ability score 11 (minimum to cast a 1st level spell), or DC 11.

Most GMs I have played for distinguish between a Touch and a Ranged Touch. So expect YMMV on this one (check with your GM). (Even the spells section deals with them under a different bolded title/paragraph).

And we actually can't " hit a square with a DC 5 check,...". The rule you are thinking (the second paragraph of "Thrown Splash Weapons" from the CRB-Combat says... "You can instead target a specific grid intersection. Treat this as a ranged attack against AC 5..."

Thrown Splash Weapons:

A splash weapon is a ranged weapon that breaks on impact, splashing or scattering its contents over its target and nearby creatures or objects. To attack with a splash weapon, make a ranged touch attack against the target. Thrown splash weapons require no weapon proficiency, so you don't take the –4 nonproficiency penalty. A hit deals direct hit damage to the target, and splash damage to all creatures within 5 feet of the target. If the target is Large or larger, you choose one of its squares and the splash damage affects creatures within 5 feet of that square. Splash weapons cannot deal precision-based damage (such as sneak attack).

You can instead target a specific grid intersection. Treat this as a ranged attack against AC 5. However, if you target a grid intersection, creatures in all adjacent squares are dealt the splash damage, and the direct hit damage is not dealt to any creature. You can't target a grid intersection occupied by a creature, such as a Large or larger creature; in this case, you're aiming at the creature.

If you miss the target (whether aiming at a creature or a grid intersection), roll 1d8. This determines the misdirection of the throw, with 1 falling short (off-target in a straight line toward the thrower), and 2 through 8 rotating around the target creature or grid intersection in a clockwise direction. Then, count a number of squares in the indicated direction equal to the range increment of the throw. After you determine where the weapon landed, it deals splash damage to all creatures in that square and in all adjacent squares.

So the trade off is a ranged attack vs. AC5 gives no chance of a direct hit, and a smaller "burst" area - 4 squares vs. 9 squares normally.

Original question #2 was "2) Do I count my INT in the splash damage to the undead?"

Reply was: "2) No. The ability replaces your bomb damage (which includes the int mod) by the potion/extract values, so you deal damage equal to the same amount you would have healed if the creature wasn't undead. Also, the ability does not mention that your bombs become splash weapons."

So a Potion of CLW would heal (or inflict on undead) 1d8+1 hp on a direct hit and the splash damage (which was what the question was actually about) would heal (or inflict on undead) 2 hp. (unless they make the save/saves).

Original question #3 was "3) Do the Undead get 1 or 2 Saves? And what type of saves? Will or Reflex or Both? "

reply was: "3) One, a will save to reduce the damage by half."

Follow-up on #3) Normally the splash damage from a alchemists bomb would give a Reflex Save for Half damage, why does this not apply for a Healing Bomb?

Original question #4 was "4) If I used a Potion for the Healing Bomb, how do I calculate the DC for the Save/Saves? From my Bomb DC? or from the Potion DC? or from Both (Reflex for my Bomb DC, and Will for the Potion)?"

Reply was "4) It's important to note that the healing bomb is not exactly the same as the bomb, it replaces the "damage" text with the following:

Quote:
A creature that takes a direct hit from a healing bomb is healed as if she had imbibed the infusion or potion used to create the bomb

So, an undead targeted by a healing bomb would suffer the same damage and save against the same DC as they would if they had drank this potion.

The DC is based on the caster level of the item, which is usually the minimum level and ability score necessary to create the item. For a CLW potion, that would be CL 1 and ability score 11 (minimum to cast a 1st level spell), or DC 11."

Follow-up on #4) again the major part of the question deals with the Splash damage/healing, which would normally give a Reflex Save for Half damage.

Would a Potion of CMW heal (or inflict on undead) 2d8+3 hp on a direct hit and the splash damage (which was what the question was actually about) would heal (or inflict on undead) 5 hp. (unless they make the save/saves, with a Will save of DC13 for half, and maybe a Reflex for half again).

The Exchange

anything new on this yet? It's been a few months...

The Exchange 5/5

I ran across something just the other day...

Pathfinder Society Scenario #8-05: Ungrounded but Unbroken (PFRPG) PDF

expected 2016 Sep 28

A Pathfinder Society Scenario designed for levels 1–5.

The Peerless Empire of shaitan genies has warred with their fiery counterparts for centuries, and thinly stretched resources leave the shaitans in need of additional aid. They have founded a new state-sanctioned mercenary company known as the Ungrounded, which draws upon free agents from across the multiverse. One of the Society’s few friends on the Plane of Earth has recommended at least a handful of Pathfinders join the Ungrounded, knowing that even a few months’ service could dramatically enhance the Society’s reputation (and fill those agents’ pockets) in this distant realm...

I figured I'd just post this here...

The Exchange 5/5

Tony Lindman wrote:
Ah, I missed that as I was reading through, as I was looking for bard references. :-)

Originally we were going to build Bards... but the Sylph player wanted to run a Crypt Breaker Alchemist, and as we only had one Boon each... We created them back before they were open access.

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Friendly "Fire" wrote:

"Hi! I'm Friendly!" blink-blink... "Friendly Fire!"

in a Gomer Pyle voice

Ifrit Alchemist. The "Face" of a group of Alchemists ("Earth, Wind and Fire" - all boon characters. We got an Undine to join us, but he doen't play much... he's "all wet"), we're up to 5th level now and expect we'll see some play this year... We also refer to ourselves as Elemental Alchemists...

ah... we've been doing this for some time...

Though we're Alchemists... not Bards.

The Exchange 5/5

"Hi! I'm Friendly!" blink-blink... "Friendly Fire!"
in a Gomer Pyle voice

Ifrit Alchemist. The "Face" of a group of Alchemists ("Earth, Wind and Fire" - all boon characters. We got an Undine to join us, but he doen't play much... he's "all wet"), we're up to 5th level now and expect we'll see some play this year... We also refer to ourselves as Elemental Alchemists...

The Exchange

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Ok, this issue is popping up in my games again. (guess I shouldn't run PCs with this discovery...)

An Ally is involved in melee with several undead. So I throw a Healing bomb targeting my ally.

1) Does my friend HAVE to count his DEX at part of his touch AC?

2) Do I count my INT in the splash damage to the undead?

3) Do the Undead get 1 or 2 Saves? And what type of saves? Will or Reflex or Both?

4) If I used a Potion for the Healing Bomb, how do I calculate the DC for the Save/Saves? From my Bomb DC? or from the Potion DC? or from Both (Reflex for my Bomb DC, and Will for the Potion)?

The Exchange 5/5

I glance around at the other players and say...

"Hi! I'm Friendly! But you can call me 'Fire' if you want to!"

change of voice to be OOC
I'm running an Ifrit Alchemist who's a fair "Face" PC, so I can handle most of the Social Skills, as well as the standard Alchemist stuff - Fire Bombs, Alchemical items, etc...

this added with my table tent let's the other players know a good bit about my PC, and what he "brings to the party..."

The Exchange

I'm sure nothing has changed with this yet - right? or maybe I've missed an FAQ or post someplace or something?
O.O

The Exchange 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

As a judge I would have no issue with someone using Fire Bolt to light a torch in their possession. Or even an unattended one (say on the wall). I might require a "to hit roll" vs. a stationary (DEX 0) tiny target (say touch AC 5 - don't roll a "1").

But then, I've let people use ray of frost to chill a mug before tapping the beer keg... it added to the RP of the encounter. (Rule of Kewl and all that. Didn't hurt the story and was "fun"...)

The Exchange 5/5

Friendly "Fire" wrote:
Martin Weil wrote:

@FF: A couple of issues, though. Since certain fire spells specify that they do set things on fire, the default assumption would probably be that, if it doesn't say it does, it doesn't. YMMV.

And, again, using a fire-based attack against, say, a torch, might fall into a couple of rules where the attack does double damage and can ignore the object's hardness, since fire is so appropriate to do damage to wood....

More seriously, there are ways, I am sure, to do this in Core, even if they are not as simpel as just pulling the Spark cantrip from whatever book it comes from, as a known/prepared spell.

I wonder if that cantrip is on a chronicle sheet, somewhere. Might be amusing to do it with a Rogue using the Minor Magic talent...

So perhaps I was optimistic with my assessment of 9.9 out of 10 judges would let someone light a torch with a spell that did 1d3 in fire damage (without setting the entire torch - handle included - on fire).

...snipping to save space...

I got to thinking about this last night, and it caused me to wonder.

Is there anyone on here that would NOT let a Fire Bloodline Sorcerer use a ray of frost that did fire damage to light a torch? (and if so, do you judge games in the Core Campaign?) Just in the interest of figuring out better percentages to correct my assessment of "9.9 out of 10".

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