I would think (and rule in my game) that she would actually LOOK the same... depending on her Disguise check anyway... just not shedding light. Kind of the reverse of the Invisible light source, she would look like she sheds light, but actually doesn't. More like the picture of the lantern not actually giving off light, it just looks like it.
Well, unless she was an Aasimar or Tiefling or some race that doesn't have the same Type as the "scary fire knight". But if that were the case, then she could disguise self as a fire elemental - which would be totally weird...
SO - IMHO -
"does it look like she has a bunch of continual flame spells cast on her stuff?" Yeah - that's what disguise self does. it makes her look like "a scary fire knight" complete with what looks like flaming armor/clothing/equipment.
"If she's in a dimly lit room, does she shed light?" Nope. No light.
"or does it look like she does?" Yeah. Looks like flames, but no light (just like continual flame doesn't produce heat, smoke, or use oxygen or set things on fire).
As to the Ioun Stone ... I agree with Azothath - " that's a big 'ol can of GM gray area." At first glance I'd say "no - it can't look like an Ioun Stone" - but then I could see BBE making burned out Ioun Stones or Ioun Torches part of their guards uniforms. "I can tell that 'guardsman' is a hero in disguise! No Ioun Stone!"
Say the caster looks like "a peasant", being rather plain and having little quality items. Now they cast disguise self and take on the appearance of the form of "a scary fire knight" complete with flaming armor/clothing/equipment.
does it look like she has a bunch of continual flame spells cast on her stuff?
If she's in a dimly lit room, does she shed light? or does it look like she does?
casting Animate Thread - creating an undead version of the Eversmoking Bottle Thread
Encountered another interpretation of this recently.
(interpretation in question) The 'Bottle creates a smoke cloud "...pouring from the bottle and totally obscuring vision across a 50-foot spread in 1 round. "... "Smoke - A character who breathes heavy smoke must make a Fortitude save each round (DC 15, +1 per previous check) or spend that round choking and coughing. A character who chokes for 2 consecutive rounds takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. Smoke obscures vision, giving concealment (20% miss chance) to characters within it."
So anyone in the area needs to roll a Fort save and has concealment (20% miss chance). The entire area ONLY has a 20% miss chance and it only has concealment, not TOTAL concealment. Basically: "totally obscuring vision" = "concealment" = 20% miss chance.
I've got two Flame Dancers now, and would need to retrain to add this Archetype in right? anyone know how much the re-training costs could be for ... say a 5th level and an 8th level Flame Dancer to add in flame singer?
From a PFS perspective, using this item falls into the "don't be a jerk" category. Just like obscuring mist, deeper darkness, and other effects that really mess with the battlefield you shouldn't use it if it is going to create an environment that is going to hamper the other players as much as the enemies. That's not fun for anyone but the person using it (who usually has a way to avoid the negatives).
From a "what does it do?" perspective the only thing you can do is look to see what smoke does in Pathfinder. 20% concealment and chance of choking. That's not "what does the item say it does?" (creates smoke) that's "what does smoke do?"
Hi! I'm a Flame Dancer Bard... after 3rd level, when I sing, all my friends within 30' can see thru smoke (& fog, & flames, &... you get the idea).... and I have Lingering Performance to extend the time. (Sing for 1 round in 3). SO I guess I'm not in the "don't be a jerk" category, right?
OH! and I even have a wand of air bubble and several Oil of air bubbles for those times I get to use my pyrotechnics spell! Get a pyrotechnics in a bottle? Really? WOW!
Have a nice day!
I've had a player use exactly this combo at my table a few times, using the eversmoking bottle with Flame Dancer Bard. After a few games of it, everyone at the table agreed it was too broken and we retired the character.
...and that's the way to do it.
If it robs the fun from the table, don't run it.
"If it's not fun, don't do it".
question: just curious, did you give the E-Bottle the pyrotechnics smoke effect?
From a PFS perspective, using this item falls into the "don't be a jerk" category. Just like obscuring mist, deeper darkness, and other effects that really mess with the battlefield you shouldn't use it if it is going to create an environment that is going to hamper the other players as much as the enemies. That's not fun for anyone but the person using it (who usually has a way to avoid the negatives).
From a "what does it do?" perspective the only thing you can do is look to see what smoke does in Pathfinder. 20% concealment and chance of choking. That's not "what does the item say it does?" (creates smoke) that's "what does smoke do?"
Hi! I'm a Flame Dancer Bard... after 3rd level, when I sing, all my friends within 30' can see thru smoke (& fog, & flames, &... you get the idea).... and I have Lingering Performance to extend the time. (Sing for 1 round in 3). SO I guess I'm not in the "don't be a jerk" category, right?
OH! and I even have a wand of air bubble and several Oil of air bubbles for those times I get to use my pyrotechnics spell! Get a pyrotechnics in a bottle? Really? WOW!
and the Aasimar is actually higher level (been playing her for longer). I just picked up the Exquisite Accompaniment spell to expand my performance durations even more...
I... really have trouble trying to make out what you mean here. Is it A or B?
A) Arcane Spell Failure only affects arcane spellcasting.
B) Arcane Spell Failure affects anyone who doesn't have an explicit exemption.
I was saying "yes, it's got to be one of those two." I happen to lean towards B, but either A or B has to be true, and that distinction potentially impacts scrolls in PFS since they are neither arcane nor divine.
If "B" is true,
Do Bards get "an explicit exemption" for using scrolls?
If so, would a Bards "explicit exemption" apply to scrolls that were NOT on the Bards spell list?
Flame dancer bard is just brutal. It can give the ability to see through smoke to the entire party.
While really great - it does get a bit tricky.
They have to be within 30' of you - but it doesn't define it real well. would that be within 30' at the start of your turn? at the end? or at the start/end of their turn? and how does Lingering Performance effect it? These are some of the things I have found I have to go over with the judge at the start of each PFS game...
whip of spiders is always impressive (at least it is for me...though probably not what you were looking for). On a wand it would be pricy though - but still impressive!
if it comes up - then the players would use air bubble - but that is an additional ability that most judges would not want to graft onto the Bottle. It doesn't have it to start with...
Give the players the ability to choke as well as blind all the monster? Not going to happen...
** spoiler omitted **
You are going to see a lot of table variation on what type of smoke the eversmoking bottle produces, as well as what works against the choking effects assuming its ruled to be like the smoke environmental hazard. I'll point out air bubble doesn't say anything about protecting against harmful vapors. Contrast it with the cleric/wizard level 5 spell life bubble in the advanced players guide.
But yes, a necklace of adaptation or life bubble spell can definitely protect against it. Air bubble might depending on your GM, but its unclear. Simply holding your breath (which does make speaking and verbal spellcasting difficult) for a number of rounds equal to your con also works. Just get out of the cloud or disperse it before you run out of breath.
I'll also point out, that anyone already investing in an eversmoking bottle might also be interested in slippers of cloud walking (from Ultimate Equipment guide).
Thanks for the note on the Slippers (an item my PCs often pick up after they buy Mistmail armor).
A point about "table variation on what type of smoke the Eversmoking bottle produces" - anything that the judge just adds to the description would be just that, an addition to the magic item. And anything added would just be giving more abilities to the PCs...
Does the smoke do anything besides block vision? if it does, why wasn't it mentioned in the description of the effects generated by the magic item (which goes into detail about the vision effects)? Any additional effects will need additional rules - DCs of choking/poison gas effects etc. All these things the PCs would have the opportunity to find "fixes" for, "fixes" that the monsters do not have available.
if it comes up - then the players would use air bubble - but that is an additional ability that most judges would not want to graft onto the Bottle. It doesn't have it to start with...
Give the players the ability to choke as well as blind all the monster? Not going to happen...
Eversmoking Bottle write-up:
Eversmoking Bottle
Aura faint transmutation; CL 3rd
Slot none; Price 5,400 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Description
This metal urn is identical in appearance to an efreeti bottle, except that it does nothing but smoke. The amount of smoke is great if the stopper is pulled out, pouring from the bottle and totally obscuring vision across a 50-foot spread in 1 round. If the bottle is left unstoppered, the smoke billows out another 10 feet per round until it has covered a 100-foot radius. This area remains smoke-filled until the eversmoking bottle is stoppered.
The bottle must be resealed by a command word, after which the smoke dissipates normally. A moderate wind (11+ mph) disperses the smoke in 4 rounds; a strong wind (21+ mph) disperses the smoke in 1 round.
And now I'm 6th level and have the GP (and the fame) to buy an Ever-Smoking Bottle.
The question is - do I? At my current level, 5400 gp is a lot of money. I could pick up several lesser items that would be lots of help... or the Bottle.
And I'm heading out to a CON this weekend - so I need to decide...
Buy the Bottle and have that "Ace up my sleeve"? After all, if I buy it, sooner or later it is going to be used...
1) Sundering build: You are destroying the treasure!
2) This is for PFS: get Scent, Blind Fighting, and carry an Eversmoking Bottle. You will make everybody Blind, including you, but you'll be mostly okay due to Scent and Blind Fighting. Since the PFS players don't know each other, they don't create characters for each other, and most players don't plan effectively for contingencies like what happens when your opponent is Invisible, or what happens when the lights go out and Darkvision won't work.
that would be fine with me, as all I have to do is sing and all my friends can see thru the smoke (Flame Dancer Bard)
Honestly, if I'm playing a caster I probably have 16 dex and 14 con. Maybe 12 to 14 Int if that's not my casting stat. Or an 18 Int if it is my casting stat.
Usually at least. I've done a high strength high dex sorcerer build which only had 14 Charisma to start. Then again, that sorcerer is crazy and at one point learned what troll tastes like... mid battle.
Stats would be what for a bard?
7, 16, 14, 13, 7, 18? Wow... How would you carry your armor let alone anything else? And that puts the WIS down to -2...
My current bard started with 10, 16, 10, 10, 8, 20 - but then she's an Azata Blooded Aasimar.
It would take re-training... but you might look at the Flame Dancer Archtype...
That's the way I have gone...
Hand another caster in the party a Wand of [/]Obscuring Mist[/I] and sing "I can see clearly now..."
You would have to retrain Countersong and Inspire Competence... but
Song of Fiery Gaze:
(Su): At 3rd level, a fire dancer can allow allies to see through flames without any distortion. Any ally within 30 feet of the bard who can hear the performance can see through fire, fog, and smoke without penalty as long as the light is sufficient to allow him to see normally, as with the base effect of the gaze of flames oracle revelation. Song of the fiery gaze relies on audible components. This ability replaces inspire competence.
every now and again we should have a thread like this pop up on the board.
Share a story or two... something that made you laugh...
Last Con I was at, last day of the CON, the party was ambushed in an ally by a band of thugs. The Rogue in the party wins Init. and (played by a very shy young lady) wants to use Intimidate to bypass the combat encounter. So she pulls her dagger and says something like..."Ah, go away or, ah, I'll stick you." and says it real softly. And get's something like a 32 in the Intimidate (at sub-tier 4-5).
I was running a Diplomacy/Bluff focused Bard and was going next in Init, but heck - I'm not going to steal her moment so I just add "She'll turn you into a newt." Pointing at the snake AC in the party, "There's the last guy who got in her way..." using Bluff to support her threat.
We did have to wait thru the Initiative order for all of them to melt away...
Everything clicked. Great judge, fun players, good scenario. Lot of fun.
Didn't have a combat round in the entire game... and only once took damage (which was close - dropped "J" and our Cleric into negative HP, and scared several of the rest of us. I do hate haunts - but this one was done well.).
Loved the tie ins with older scenarios... just wish I had used a re-play to play 0-06 before playing this one.
May see if I can put together a Halloween run of the two in CORE....
Two of my friends and I have a halfling gang together, and one of them has a Flame Dancer bard that plays with an Alchemist with smoke bombs (my character is the melee in this party). The combo works really well.
We usually only whip out this trick like once per scenario to be nice to the GM.
wow! Smoke bombs! I hadn't thought of that!... have to look for a buddy Alchemist now...
Yes I have a flame dancer bard that UMDs a wand of obscuring mist and gives everyone the ability to see through it. It's fun but I only do it when the party is really in trouble.
the biggest problem with the eversmoking bottle is making it not horrible for your team mates.
(My ifrit gunslinger is considering taking fire sight, and having the bottle on hand for if the party starts losing.)
This is not a problem for the Flame Dancer. If I can see thru the smoke, so can every ally (with in 30') that can hear me...
Hmm. Interesting. It looks like action economy might make it hard to pull off the ever smoking bottle as an emergency measure until high levels.
Move / standard to start a new performance,
Move to retrieve bottle
standard to activate.
Not good when the cleric needs to get to a downed friend.
But still good for a boss fight.
goodness - why would we be in combat when I DON'T have the Song going? Esp. as I normally just start it up every third round (Lingering Performance).
That way I can use smoke sticks, and other tricks to litter the field with effects that don't effect my friends, but hinder the bad guys.
And Eversmoking Bottle is expensive. Right now I'm just 3rd level, so I'm looking at low level effects like smoke sticks and ob. mist... I tend to enjoy playing the lower levels anyway. by the time I can afford the E.Bottle I am likely to have set this PC aside for my next "fun idea".
Deighton Thrane was advocating for saving it for when an ally goes down. I was observing that the action economy might prevent that, but the ever smoking bottle in a hand haversack does rather get around that. It is incredibly cheesy, but it works.
5400 gp is actually pretty cheap. Should be easily affordable by the time you hit 5th level. Prestige is a bit harder, but you should have enough by 6 if not by 5.
I admit, I kind of wish there was a non consumable item that fell somewhere between ever smoking bottle and smokestick.
I was actually doing it with a Wand of Ob. Mist now... It's just that often another PC will have to throw up the smokescreen.
and Prestige may be a problem. Played Fallen Fortress early on (so only 5 fame for first level) and a Mod (3XP but only 4 Fame) so I'm a little behind the curve on Fame.
But 5K+ is a lot on a 5 or 6 level PC... and by the time I hit 7th I kind of loose interest in most of my characters - we'll see if Ember is one of those.
the biggest problem with the eversmoking bottle is making it not horrible for your team mates.
(My ifrit gunslinger is considering taking fire sight, and having the bottle on hand for if the party starts losing.)
This is not a problem for the Flame Dancer. If I can see thru the smoke, so can every ally (with in 30') that can hear me...
Hmm. Interesting. It looks like action economy might make it hard to pull off the ever smoking bottle as an emergency measure until high levels.
Move / standard to start a new performance,
Move to retrieve bottle
standard to activate.
Not good when the cleric needs to get to a downed friend.
But still good for a boss fight.
goodness - why would we be in combat when I DON'T have the Song going? Esp. as I normally just start it up every third round (Lingering Performance).
That way I can use smoke sticks, and other tricks to litter the field with effects that don't effect my friends, but hinder the bad guys.
And Eversmoking Bottle is expensive. Right now I'm just 3rd level, so I'm looking at low level effects like smoke sticks and ob. mist... I tend to enjoy playing the lower levels anyway. by the time I can afford the E.Bottle I am likely to have set this PC aside for my next "fun idea".
I am actually planning to use the Song with spark and smoke sticks. And passing a wand of obscuring mist to the party Cleric/Oracle/Druid/Wizard/Witch... or maybe just UMDing it myself.
The Smoke Stick on an ally would let me drop Concealment around the tactical field that the PCs can see thru (with the Song) but the monsters can't. If an Ally is in melee, I can spark a smoke stick and cover him in smoke - providing him with 20% concealment (or better).
But I am wondering if anyone has any experience with this playing this in PFS yet...
Step 1 ignores the fast that quarterstaves and clubs are free because they are simple pieces of wood
Step 2 might void it being 'cold' iron.
Step 3 requires a craft check, which means you still have to pay for some raw materials
You might as well just claim that you're getting regular iron clubs and melting them down to sell at 1 sp a pound as a trade good. That isn't how the game works.
Heck, just start 'em up and sell them for firewood.
