Eleechee's page

Hi.

I like to min max.

I’m going to post this build as a google document and explain a bit about it here

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1R_RG5-aA_w9Hyc8xWnSPOVRCYma4YJXWxKYfJ1X 81ZM

Disclaimer(s)

We are using all rule books, as in any material on D20PFSRD.

My DM argued with me about the ring of acceleration in this build, but I think it’s totally allowed within the crafting rules of the game and we ended up settling on a house rule of crafted item per character.

It’s possible I did something wrong. I’ve only played with one DM and I’m not perfect.

Race: human: favored class bonus for rogue is nuts and a so is a bonus feat. Humans are also just sweet. The human spirit come on guys!!!

Classes: surprisingly, there is a huge selection of classes that give grapple bonuses, but most of them become redundant over time.

Cavalier and rogue are not the most obvious examples of a grabber, but with archetypes and a quick dip of multi-classing the character has some traits that frankly should not be able to be combined. In the end, the speed of the grappler is what truly makes the difference, so seeing that the cavalier and rogue end up being the best has at least a little thematic resonance.

The constable cavalier class sacrifices the near useless mount gives a subtle yet massive boost to the speed of the grappler. We will address later why speed is so important for grappling in a moment, but the ability to chain a charge to a grapple is only offered in this singular avenue, and eventually in this build move actions and attack actions blend together to form a swift grapple and tie. The constable also gains an untyped (stacks with anything) bonus to grapple.

The penitent order gives another level of ungodly speed that should never have been allowed. Expert captor allows one to tie an opponent up without pinning them first. This removes the need to succeed at a second grapple check to completely subdue an enemy. You also get +0 to tie up an opponent where normally you receive -10 to combat maneuver check. The icing on the cake is a +1 bonus to your escape bonds check after the opponent is tied. The only exchange is that you won’t be able to kill humans, and will have to try to encourage party members to do the same. It’s really not bad, especially when fighting demons, and eventually someone in the party should get phase locking, but it’s hard if not impossible to cast when completely tied anyway.

Wow... Let’s just get this straight. That’s all from a two level dip into cavalier. Now we renounce our ways. What a terrible person we’ve been locking all these poor innocents away in jails. From now on we will use our tie ups for good! We will kidnap demons and bind them with spider silk! We will grapple dragons and tie their mouths to their tails! We’ll carey them back home on our backs! Er...

Yes... okay.

So next we reform and go kidnapper.

A bonus within the kidnapper archetype gives a stacking reduction to the tie up penalty. Depending on if you house rule this, this may not stack with the similar thing in expert captor and net you a bonus. Can you reduce a penalty below 0? What does it mean to “not take the usual -10 penalty”? Who knows.

With abductor We get a stacking bonus to grapple combat maneuver checks as well.

Rogue also has amazingly weird combinations of bonuses. We end up taking a familiar from speccing into minor/major magic for a +2 grapple bonus. Then we make that crab a figment of our imagination. Then we make that crab sticky! Then we make that crab make US sticky!!! LMFAOWTF?

Short and sweet baby.

Actions:

Pathfinder has a general rule that you can trade a standard action for a move action.

The developers have stated they envision grapple as a one hand free kind of deal, more akin to having a guy by the collar of his shirt than full on high school wrestling grapple.

Technically you still have one hand free

You can grapple an opponent and use the other hand to block arrows with deflect arrows or grapple another opponent who misses in melee with snapping turtle clutch as an immediate action.

Grapple is very complicated and not well explained. I spent a long time researching how grapple works, piecing together various critiques of players explanations of the mechanic.

Let’s start simple.

From what I understand, if you grapple successfully, the person grappling and the person grappled both enter the “grappled state” (gs).

In the gs you receive a huge penalty to basically anything that isn’t grapple or resist grapple for the duration

You cannot grapple after a move action.

1You must grapple the opponent, which takes a full round ( we reduce this with feats and such)

2 the opponent gets a turn to break the grapple and the whole enemy team gets their turn while grappler and grappled suffer grappled state.

3You must pin the opponent with a successful grapple check.

4 another enemy turn but no reduction to your guard and a severely reduced chance to break grapple since he’s pinned.

5tie yo enemy.

Grapple sucks.

We end up reducing this to.

Charge+grapple-bonus move action from ring of acceleration, (which can be used as a grapple thanks to greater grapple feat) tie up from gs without needing to pin because of expert captor.

WHAT ?
Min. Max.

Grapple checks are simple. They take your Combat maneuver bonus for grapple and general CMB and match it against that of your opponent.

A pinned opponent is technically the same as a tied opponent, except one an opponent is tied you no longer need to maintain the grapple.

Escaping a pin is the same as escaping a grapple, differentiated by any bonuses you have to pinning.

Escaping a tie is the same as escaping a grapple, plus tie bonuses, plus 20.
If the DC to escape from these bindings is higher than 20 + the target’s CMB, the Target can’t try to escape at all.

I interpret this to mean they cannot even try to break the ropes. If I tied a dragon like this, he would be bound by his head to his foot and his wings to his tail so his muscles wouldn’t even allow him to try to burst his bonds. Especially when we get to spider silk ropes.

Stats:

We started with a stat array and I pumped strength to increase grapple bonus since grapple is a combat maneuver.
Dex an obvious second and con for survivability. (My dm likes to throw big challenges where I end up needing to tie up a single creature 4-6 times to deal with its size or something.)

Items:
The ring was controversial only to my DM, and I didn’t understand why. I just followed the item creation rules for enchanting an item with a spell. It is the key to this build in a way. The most important thing is to be able to tie an opponent in one turn, and you can only do this if you grapple, then grapple two more times in a turn. We skip one with expert captor, tying without needing to pin and end up turning the move action we get from this ring into a grapple with rapid grappler.

The formula for the cost of purchasing an item enchanted with a spell permanently is available below. (acceleration is a word of power, which we have played with before, and are typically thought to be weaker than spells, since they are simply components or weaker versions of other spells that exist, such as haste)

4 x multiplier for making a spell with a duration in rounds permanent,

Acceleration must be cast by a level 3 caster level 2 word of power Multiply 2*3*2000*4 per level * 2 for purchase price rather than craft= 96000 gp.

I really don’t see the issue. The ring is not op, it just makes this build viable.

Dan bong is the only interesting item besides the ring. It gives a +2 to grapple bonus, but you can’t grapple with a weapon. So do you need exotic weapon proficiency to get the bonus? Who knows. My dm says yes so I go with it. My gut says no since the only thing proficiency does is negate the-4 penalty to attack rolls with weapons but multiple sources confirm you don’t make attack rolls with weapons when you grapple. If you did then you would just get a +5 weapon and get +5 to CMB with grapple and this wouldn’t be an issue.

A mithril breast plate makes us the most maneuverable with the most armor class. We also make it adhesive and for a few rounds a day we can make our palms gluey for an extra grapple bonus.

Traits: bred for war. I’m a six for tall girl IRL, so I don’t see a problem with the amazing rope girl being an Amazon. Gets you a +1 to CMB which is also for grapple!
Exhange the other traits for feat

Feats:
The feats are explained pretty well in the build. They basically work to change a move action into a grapple action (but only if you are already in grappled state), generally increase grapple power through CMB or grapple CMB an otherwise hit some interesting survivability feats since we have one hand completely free.

You can grapple with your swift action or move action in different scenarios. Grapple actions can be used to tie whenever you have someone e grappled.

Rapid grappler shouldn’t exist either.

Weapon focus can be taken with grapple.

My dm also said I need exotic weapon mastery to get the +2 bonus so I’ll take it.

Snapping turtle style is fun, can sometimes net you a free grapple but almost never in a useful way since you will still only be able to tie up one person. I love the flavor of this and it can stop a chain of attacks if you dodge the first one, and this build ends with a pretty decent AC.

General:

This build doesn’t aim to do damage. It just ties a guy up guaranteed every turn from across the map if it needs to. In the end I either walk away and let my team do the dirty work while I repent in the woods for not being able to help, or load the fellas up in a cart and take their bodies back home. I also have a pretty big carry capacity with mule back cords and massive strength so I can haul a big one.

Let me know anything I got wrong, if you hate me or my build, or if you just wanna use it :)