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RAW it counts as a trait each time; I believe RAI it only counts once. Since you are presumably the GM if you're building a new race, do it however you think right.... The Race Builder is very much just GM guidelines, really.

Oh, one exception: with something like elemental immunity that is "parameterized" in that you have to take immunity(fire) or immunity(cold) or whatever, or when getting multiple different natural attacks, it's clear that it's a new trait each time.

I can't think of any grey areas with those interpretations offhand, but that doesn't mean there aren't any.

Yes i am the GM and i think RAI are not so destabilizing but i have count it as trait each time because i I have not found any evidence in the whole ARG that rules works properly like I have intended.

Thank you aniway Fuzzy-Wuzzy! :)

Each time you take it it counts as one trait. So breath weapon +2 boosts. Thats 3 traits for that category. Also, when you boost it costs 1 more rp than the base cost.. so say breath costs 2, boosting costs 3 more, and boosting again costs an additional 4. For a total of 9 Rp for breath weapon.

Uh thanks a lot *Thelith for the total Cost, looking at other traits like improved natural armor i can say that you are right! i totally misunderstood cost calculation.

Anyway are you sure that each time you take it it counts as one trait?

I want to know if i can create a new race of Advanced power level (max 4 traits per category) with for example: Wyrmscourged, Hatred and Breath Weapon(taking the latter 3 times).

They count as I pick 3 "Offence Racial Traits" category or as 6 on a total of 4 available?

To be specific: Breath Weapon says:
Special: You can take this trait more than once. Each time you do so, the cost of this trait increases by 1 RP.

So Breath Weapon is boosted 2 times with a total cost of 3 RP counting as single trait or it count as i already taken 3 "Offence" trait and then i can choose only one more trait of this Category?

I think the former is right but i wouldn't be wrong.

Thanks in advance! :)

There are numerous examples to the contrary;

AP 56 Moto pg 36: Fly 15 (5 ranks from master + 3 dex + 4 size + 3 class skill), Swim 15 (9 ranks from master + 3 dex + 3 class skill)

You enlightened me showing me the way, don't lose yourself:

First of all:Familiars treat Acrobatics, Climb, Fly, Perception, Stealth, and Swim as class skills.

AP 56 Moto pg 36:

Bluff +1 (-4 from Charisma 2 + 3 ranks from master);

Fly +15 (5 ranks from master + 3 dex + 4 size + 3 class skill from familiar class skill list);

Intimidate +1 (-4 from Charisma 2 + 3 ranks from master);

Swim +15 (+8 from having a swim speed+ 1 ranks from master + 3 dex + 3 class skill from familiar class skill list)
Master have Swim +14(+8 from having a swim speed too +1 rank+3 from sorcerer class skill + 2 from strength);

Profession Sailor +8 (+1 from wisdom+7 ranks from master)
Master have Profession Sailor +12(+7 ranks-1 from Wisdom+ 3 of class skill, + 3 from skill focus feat)

Perception +9 (+1 from 1 and the unic skill rank a viper have+4 racial mod+1from wisdom+3from familiar class skill list)(like on bestiary);

Stealth + 15 (+4 racial mod+ 3 from Dexterity+8 from size)(like on Bestiary).

Master have 18 skill points if i don't forgot anithing it's all right.

I haven't look at the other AP familiar listed by you but i think it's properly like this.

It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but is now a magical beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type.

I don't think that learning a language is an effect. And i cannot understand how a familiar can learn a language if don't put ranks in linguistic but obtain ranks by their master via transferring.

I don't say you are not right i simply cannot understand how. A FAQ can clarify all.

Anyway look at Adventure Path 56 if you can. For now is the only official material that prove something for real and not for supposition and interpretation. Moto the familiar of that AP have not Linguistic nor Language but Master have linguistic. The only language this familiar have are:speak with master, speak with reptiles.

Why would they need class levels to have class skills?

Wizard wrote:

Familiars treat Acrobatics, Climb, Fly, Perception, Stealth, and Swim as class skills.

If they couldn't get the +3 that statement would be utterly pointless.

Heck, non-familiar animals have that list of class skills too; check the Bestiary.

I think Drahliana means familiar cannot get class bonus to skills obtained by their master. Familiars treat Acrobatics, Climb, Fly, Perception,

I would add the caveat that the sample size (i.e. familiar stat blocks where the master has linguistics) is small enough that this conclusion could be erroneous or incomplete. Maybe the authors just left linguistics off because the familiar couldn't speak... or the results could be different for a familiar like a thrush that CAN speak.

I think that thrush and ravens are the only that can speak.

It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but is now a magical beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type.

It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but is now a magical beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type.

The only thing the familliar mechanic ACTUALLY SAYS on the subject is that it gets the master's ranks.... not class skill bonuses, and certainly not the master's intelligence bonuses, nor any special effects from getting the ranks.

So it gets the master's ranks and the appropriate modifier from the familiar's own ability scores and that's it.

I agree on all.

Looking at familiar stat blocks in various APs, they consistently get the +3 bonus on class skills even when the skill ranks are 'transferred' from their master... resulting in weirdness like snakes and goats with better Fly skill bonuses than their masters.

I have looked up for Moto the sea snake in AP 56. Look on Bluff and Intimidate skill for example!

Moto have Charisma 2, than modifier=-4. Calculating skills point of Isabella “Inkskin” Locke (Moto's Master) i notice that she put 3 skill rank in Bluff and 3 skill rank in Intimidate. Isabella is a Sorcerer (Bluff and Intimidate are class skills for sorcerer).

Moto have Bluff=-1=-4(Charisma 2)+3(skill rank spent by Isabella). And the same is for Intimidate.

IF +3 bonus on class skills had been applied Moto would have:

Bluff=+2=-4(Charisma 2)+3(skill rank spent by Isabella)+3 bonus on class skill of Isabella. But is not like this.

So if all is correct i can say (thanks to you) this:

1)+3 bonus on class skills are not applied properly because skill point are only "transferred" from their master(i supposed that from the beginning).The familiar uses its own modifiers, which include the modifier of being a class skill. If it is a class skill for the familiar then it gets a +3. If it is not, but a class skill of the master, no +3

2)Linguistic cannot be transferred on familiar because they are animal and cannot speak even with high scores of Int.

Thanks a lot! :)

Looking at familiar stat blocks in various APs, they consistently get the +3 bonus on class skills even when the skill ranks are 'transferred' from their master... resulting in weirdness like snakes and goats with better Fly skill bonuses than their masters.

Can you tell me wich Adventure Path are you reffer? I have some of them, but AP aren't using the OGL 3.5 rules set? Maybe you mean the most recent AP release.

I want to focalize attention on Core Rulebook pag. 102 about Linguistic:

"Special: You must be trained to use this skill etc.." So without any ranks in Language is impossible to use Linguistic and all the benefits it grants.

I think that the point is: Familiar use the skill rank possessed by their Master or effectively put a rank in such skills?. I agree on that with all up here like VRMH and Wheldrake.

I think familiar's skill rank function the same way of their "Type" and "HD".

...I mean, they are Animal but are considered Magical Beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type. So they not gain Magical Beast type features listed on Bestiary. The same for HD. They use Master HD only for effect that involve the number of HD but they still have the original HD of the animal used as familiar. In the same way familiars may use the best skill rank between them and their master:

"For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, USE either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master's skill ranks, whichever is better." USE not PUT and not GAIN. THEN..."Whenever you put a rank into this skill, you learn to speak and read a new language. Common languages (and their typical speakers) include the following." SO i think that familiars can obtain Language only with Int mod improvement. And this makes sense because are Animal with unnatural Intelligence so they can speak.

The only thing i don't like is the difficulty to keep notice of all that: are Animal but Magical Beast only for effects, they have their HD but use HD of their master for effects and the skills are even more complicate. Perhaps not the best and clear Rule mechanics we could have.

And i quote Cevah for:

The familiar uses its own modifiers, which include the modifier of being a class skill. If it is a class skill for the familiar then it gets a +3. If it is not, but a class skill of the master, no +3.

Anyway i will appreciate if this gonna be a FAQ.

Sorry in advance if I made some mistakes with my english. I am Italian.

Charisma sets the DC for your SLAs ,aking it effectively your casting stat for spell like abilities.

Thank you!

Hi all!

I want to know which concentration bonus have spell-like abilities granted by racial traits like:
Drow:dancing lights, darkness, faerie fire.
Gnome:dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation
same for Duergar,Dhampir etc.

I know that spells, in a concentration check have a concentration value of: 1d20 + caster level + related stats mod (Wisdom for Cleric, Druid and Ranger and so on)

So looking at various manual like bestiary, npc codex, monster codex i still cannot understand wich concentration bonus have a racial spell-like ability.

For example a drow warrior wich concentration bonus have?

Thank you in advance.

Anyway if you look at aasimar and tiefling (and Others for sure)we have the same "problem".

Thank you Bob for the answer, i think too that is a different Language and a little bit confusing. I think the Language used in rules needs to follow a template. I notice certain things because i am a nitpicker a little :P

Thank you Erik! :) I apologizes for my answer after 2 years!:P

Hi!
I want to know if gnome caster level of Gnome Magic racial trait is equal to character level or class level.

I want to know this because i see some ambiguity in other race like dhampir and duergar for example.

Why dhampir's caster level for detect undead (Bestiary 2 pag.89)is equal to dhampir’s CLASS level?

Why duergar's caster level for enlarge person and invisibilty (Bestiary pag.117 )is equal to duergar’s CHARACTER level?

So for duergar's case why rules speak of CHARACTER level in RACIAL TRAITS description? Maybe it refers to duergar favored class? I can't understand why a race refers generically of class levels when a character may multiclass.

Thanks in advance.

TROLL RIPPER p. 228

Str 25, Dex 16, Con 27, Int 4, Wis 11, Cha 6

Skill Points Unused :3
ACP -2 = +1 armor training -3 hide (not relevant for the listed skills)
Skills Ranks: 9 = 3 class skills +6 race skills (+3 Favored class are used for hp)
Total Ranks Used 6
------------------------------------------
Intimidate +5 = +4 ranks, -2 Cha, +3 class skill (for fighter class and giant subtype)
Perception +5 = +2 ranks, +0 Wis, +3 class skill (for giant subtype)

If this is true other trolls of the book presents skill points unused.

In my "Order History" i have the Advanced Class Guide submitted at Jun 15, 2014 and status complete and the Advanced Class Guide PLAYTEST submitted free at Jan 2, 2014 . But in "My Downloads" i see only Advanced Class Guide PLAYTEST link. So i cannot download my Advanced Class Guide. Why?? :(