Cel'Daren's page

I've never understood why humanoids are treated as not having Natural Weapons, and why the concept of an "Unarmed Strike" exists at all. Humanoids have teeth, humanoids have limbs that can be used to bludgeon things. Granted they're not the most efficient weapons, but we still have them.

So I wondered what would be the effects of removing the concept of an "Unarmed Strike" and having humanoids given 2 Natural Weapons, all sized for a creature two sizes smaller than normal. 1 Bite Weapon and 1 Slam. So far I realize it seems to be a bit of a boost to monks, and anyone who wants to fight without a weapon.

Essentially the changes I feel this would have to include in list form would look kinda like:

1. Unarmed Strikes don't exist. Nothing provokes an attack of opportunity merely by wielding a weapon which they are not proficient with.
2. Improved Unarmed Strike, Throw Anything, and Catch Off-Guard do not exist, and all things requiring these abilities simply ignore them.
3. Humanoids are given a Bite and a Non-lethal Slam Natural Weapon that is 2 sizes smaller than normal. For Medium humanoids this equals 1d3. For small humanoids this equals 1d2.
4. Monks have a few changes. Humanoid monks improve their original Bite and Slam Weapons to equal their own size at 1st level (They then increase as the Unarmed Strike does now). A monk applies their full Strength bonus to all their Natural Weapons. A monk can use any limb to perform their Slam attack, and can treat their Slam attack as any number of weapons for the purposes of Flurry of Blows and Two-Weapon Fighting and its improvements.
5. Any ability that previously gave a bonus only to Unarmed Strike now gives it to a creature's Natural Attacks (such as a monk's Ki Pool ability).
6. Natural Weapons no longer grant additional attacks beyond the creature's normal attack routine. For example, a creature with a Bite and 2 Claw weapons but with only a BAB of 6 can still only attack twice with a Full Attack Action, using any combination of their Natural weapons. The multi-attack feat restores this ability in addition to its normal effects.
7. Amulet of Mighty Fists applies its bonus only to 1 Natural Weapon, chosen at the time of donning the amulet. An Amulet of Mighty Fists is treated as a single weapon for the purposes of enchanting prices (an Amulet of Mighty Fists costs the same as say, a longsword, to enchant). An Amulet of Mighty Fists may be enchanted to provide its effect to any number of Natural Weapons, but its price changes accordingly (2 attacks doubles the original price. 3 attacks triple it, etcetc).

Now, these changes make sense, to me. However I'm not even sure what the longer term effect of these changes would be. I'm sure there are builds that would become overpowered by this, and others that suddenly lose a lot of power. Tell me what you think about these various changes, how they would effect the game, which feats and abilities would lose effectiveness, all that good stuff.

Also, thank you for your time folks!

You read the sign posted up over yonder. For whatever reason, whether it be boredom or genuine interest, you've decided to go and investigate what the sign told you. A few minutes of asking around about the subject and you're pointed in the direction of a library; a beautiful creation of white marble and clean bronze that towers over the surrounding buildings. It is obviously a major center of learning in the city.

Another minute or two asking about the sign earlier, and you're pointed to the edge of the tables, to a lone figure sitting by himself. As you approach you realize he is writing, not reading. As you continue to get closer you note his white hair and black skin, a bit of worry forming in the back of your mind. You get close enough to look at his ears. Pointed. When the Drow sits up to look at you his red eyes are apparent. No, wait. Half-Drow. Your keen senses can tell that he's too heavily built, his pointed ears not sharp enough, his face too kind. He beckons you over, taking in your features and deducing you're here for him. When finally you stand nearby he speaks...

Alright, so my little bit of fun there aside, you should be able to guess what this is here for. I've made a rewrite of the monk class, and I'm looking for reviews, advice, and play-testing by the people here. Now let's be clear. This is a full on rewrite, not a quick fix. It's not even a rewrite that respects existing pathfinder content. It's a complete overhaul that works only for itself, merely being tied to the core pathfinder rule-set. At least that is what it is right now. For it to be something better I need your help. I am not particularly good at balancing a class, and so despite me tinkering with this remake for a while I've hit a point where I don't feel confident in my ability to refine it any further.

What I had tried to do with this remake was to address the problems of the monk in a very direct way.

The primary problem with the monk that most people cite, at least from what I have gathered from reading the forums here, is that they're MAD. Multi-ability-dependent. Essentially this means they need a lot of high scores in order to be effective at what they're supposed. Their special abilities use a different score than what they attack and even what they defend with, meaning that unless you win the dice lotto and roll four eighteens you'll be lacking in some area. This was a major consideration for me, which I attempted to remove via giving them a class feature at 1st level that defines their main stat, and this choice stays true to them all the way through 20 levels.

Another problem was that there wasn't a specific thing the monk was really supposed to dominate at. While they gained a host of abilities that would designate them as martial characters, their d8 HP dice and medium BAB progression made them not the best front line fighters. This goes back to that class feature I gave them at 1st level, as it gives them a semi-specific area of combat to focus in.

Now, the problem that I personally feel is the reason monks are considered low powered is the fact that, unlike EVERY other base class in the book, Monks had little to no choice. Every class gets a great deal of choice when it comes to selecting their class abilities. Barbarians have rage powers, Fighters have their impressive selection of feats to choose from, Rogues have their talents, heck even Paladins can choose their mercies, divine bond, and which spells to prepare. Of course, any caster class gets that huge option, while clerics also get domains, Druids get their Nature bond (and even what wild-shape to assume counts to me), and Bards get to choose which performances to use at any given time.

What do monks get for choices? A VERY limited amount of bonus feats, a very limited amount of Ki powers, and some extra choices when using Stunning Fist, which I am told isn't very good because it has two ways to fail. Either miss your opponent, or have them make their Fort save. Considering monks are a medium BAB class with no way to self buff their attack bonus, one could say this is almost useless in a fight.

So monks lack the kinda of choices that you'd base an entire character on, unlike many of the other classes. They're given their niche, which nobody can agree on what it actually is, and are stuck there. I decided to fix this by giving them choices. Many choices. Perhaps too many choices. You'll all be the judge of that.

One last thing I want you to remember before I present the rewrite. This is a Work In Progress. It is not a finished creation. It is not balanced, it has not been tested, and it certainly shouldn't be taken as anything more than Homebrew. While my goal is to eventually have this be something everyone can agree upon and like, and perhaps even be considered as a resource for Pathfinder 2nd Edition in the future, I know that is very far off, and is going to take a lot of work to get to that point.

So without further ado, my WIP Monk Rewrite...

Newbie here, so please don't kill me if my question seems something solved by Common Sense.

If a Monk with Slow Fall is sliding down the side of a wall, how does Slow Fall affect their ability to catch themselves?

Would it not affect them at all, and they are simply treated as falling as normal for attempts to catch themselves? (Climb DC of Wall +20 to catch it)

Would it give them some kind of bonus, such as being treated as falling down a Slope instead? (Climb DC of Wall +10 to catch it)

Would it let them catch the wall automatically, treating their Slow Fall as if they're choosing to move down the wall rather than simply falling? (Climb DC of Wall to begin moving upwards)

Sorry if this has been answered already somewhere, I searched repeatedly but found nothing.