Carbonacreation's page

Carbonacreation wrote:

But isn't magic necessarily obsoleted by tech?

No. That sounds like it's the case for the fanfic you cite, but that's not a rule for all fiction everywhere, obviously.

Carbonacreation wrote:

For example, in the fanfic I referenced, the person claims that 1000 commoners with masterwork tools can aid another to make a craft check in the 1000s to create a rocket without magic, which requires a single very powerful person. Would you see this as obsoleting magic?

Does an apple obsolete an orange? Does a book by Stephen King obsolete a book by Clive Barker? Does a car obsolete a truck? Do jeans obsolete slacks? No. They provide variety, and allow for different people to enjoy the world in different ways, and solve similar problems in different ways.

Same thing in a world like Pathifnder or Starfinder where magic and tech both exist.

Fanfic is great, but each piece of fanfic (or professional fic for that matter) written is not immediately compatible with every other piece of fiction. Pick and choose the ones you like and enjoy them, and the process of piecing together your favorites into your own headcanon for your own settings (or adapting them to published settings) is a lot of fun... that's kind of exactly what fanfic is.

Perhaps I was unclear in my assertion of the case against magic. It goes as follows: a scientist can develop a concept and conscript 1000 low level commoners to aid him on a craft check and have a result in the 1000s enable him to do anything he wants, from making a rocket to recreating antimatter. But a wizard can only craft anything with himself or maybe other wizard b/c only he has the magic needed to craft. A scientist can stand on the shoulders of giants and use the theories of other scientists to aid his own discoveries, but an archwizard cannot help a 1st level wizard cast spells better.

Thus, is not technology inherently superior to magic using this example as a basis?

Carbonacreation wrote:

Wait what? How can these people know about germs and still use swords and bows? IRL germ theory did not become widely accepted until the 1890s (height of the Industrial Revolution!). How can this be? I can get literacy because you wanted handouts, but how does this add to the playing experience?

Because Golarion has magic (including the ability to literally ask a god about things), has a different timeline than Earth, and has a longer timeline than earth. We haven't bothered to go into deep detail about WHAT these theories are, whether it's bad vapors, tiny little monsters, actual germ/virus bacteria, or the like, but the basic mechansims by which you get sick, illness spreads, and the like is more or less understood. Different theories for different regions by different people...

...but since the game is played by us in the modern era, it's easiest for most gamers to not have to "re-learn" how it works, which is why we didn't invent an entire new mechanism for it.

Curse of the Crimson Throne's the biggest thing we've done with sickness/plague stuff, so check that out to see how folks handle it.

Problem is bad vapors =/= equal little microscopic organisms. The latter results in thousands dying because you dump your waste in rivers trying to get the stench out, the former results in untold amounts of lives being saved.

Having said that, what is the general awareness of germ theory and is it beneficial in a meaningful way? In CotCT it is barely mentioned at all (and CotCT is kind of a special case, as the plague is basically bio-engineered).

Carbonacreation wrote:

Does germ theory exist in Golarion as we know it? As in, microcellular living organisms causing disease? Because if so, then what keeps cure wounds from causing a target to die of infection due to the positive energy bolstering the bacteria?

There's plenty of theories on Golarion about how sickness works. Knowledge of germs/viruses/parasites/etc. is generally known about by most though.

Cure wounds cures wounds. It doesn't bolster bacteria. It doesn't bolster living organisms. If it did, it'd bolster the person whose wound you're healing. It Just Cures Wounds.

Wait what? How can these people know about germs and still use swords and bows? IRL germ theory did not become widely accepted until the 1890s (height of the Industrial Revolution!). How can this be? I can get literacy because you wanted handouts, but how does this add to the playing experience?

Carbonacreation wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

YawarFiesta wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Very well! At least until he ran out of bullets or gas.

Does that mean that Ash Williams' knowledge chemistry won't apply in Golarion? That he probably won't be able to acquire the necessary reagents and tools because of a language barrier? Or something else?

Humbly,
Yawar

No, just means that once he runs out of bullets and gas and has to make his own or fight to find some in Numeria that he'll do well instead of very well, but once he gets the boomstick ammo and chainsaw go juice back he'll be good to go for more.

Assuming he doesn't do any knucklehead moves along the way. But he wouldn't do that!

Couldn't he ask a local sage or wizard in a city to make/find some? I mean, they can't be THAT stupid, especially if he explains well (though from what you say about Golarion's medieval stasis I believe they just might be.)

Plus, Fabricate Bullets is a second level spell, same as locate object.

A sage, perhaps. A wizard, not so much. Wizards are experts on magic, not bullets and gasoline. There's some in Numeria that could help, but he'd still have to go to Numeria.

More to the point, this is Ash we're talking about. The wizards and sages might not be THAT stupid, but he might be! Or perhaps stubborn is a better word. He gets the job done, yes, but as much due to dumb luck and stubbornness as anything else!

Bullets aren't super-complicated foreign concepts though. They already exist. Though Ash's horrible descriptions might not help. For gas they would just find a way to run it magically. Bam. No more fuel problems.

To the other point: So are they that stupid? You certainly imply they are, which would contradict your last statement that 25 int doesn't correspond to 80 int in the real world.

I noticed a strange thing about an old artifact: The Scepter of Ages.

According to the time table, it takes 10000 years for Golarion to develop circa 1920s-1930s tech. It takes 5000 years for them just to develop out of the current political map.

For context 10000 years is the difference, for us, from "me put plant in ground, me wait, me eat plant later!" to the technological innovations necessary to establish an SF style infosphere and a possible moon base.

This seems absurd to me, and is a clear indication of how medieval stasis is alive and well on this world. Am I incorrect, or can you explain this?

D3stro 2119 wrote:

Is it the norm for half-orcs to be discriminated against wherever they go? Like, if you stopped at a small town or village, could you expect an angry mob or just a slightly cooler reception, or for there to be no difference at all? What about half-elves? I ask this mostly because the half-orc and half-elf entries still kind of retain a tone of possible discriminations vs the character that I feel is kind of outdated after decades worth of having these guys as PC races.

One thing I do want to add to this question (couldn't adjust the previous post) is that discrimination is absolutely present in the world... but my preference is that this is something practiced by enemies or foes that the PCs can then fight against or otherwise fix. Having a PC in a group who discriminates is fine if EVERY player/GM in the group is fine with it, and even then I'd strongly suggest not playing out such games in public areas where your roleplay can be easily mistaken for actual racism/homophobia/transphobia/misogyny/misandry/agism/whatever. And in org play games you should just flat out never pursue this sort of play. It's simply inappropriate, because it makes the game no longer a safe place for everyone to play. Even if it's included in a game by a GM and meant to be something the group of PCs fight against, it can be tricky and awkward.

Player consent is key if you want to tell stories about fighting discrimination. The more it's obvious that the discriminators are the bad guys and are meant to be the ones the PCs are to fight or oppose, the less tricky and fraught it gets, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't make sure all your players consent to that sort of content in your game.

Very little can kill a campaign faster than a GM running a story that distresses a player. Related: That's also how you drive players from the hobby entirely, and/or lose friends. Don't do it.

[Same poster, but different account due to maintenance issues]

My main problem was how even the 2e entry for half orcs stressed that "half-orcs are typically not welcome in human communities."

I can forgive 1e for almost being a copy-paste of DnD 3.5, but I look on what 5e has now down for half-orc (much more subtle, implicit bias, it's not gone but it's better/more relatable rather than a blanket "humans normally don't like you.") Heck, even in Starfinder the half-orc entry states that half orcs are discriminated against in a universe of literally millions of races!

Why has Paizo chosen to keep this message of overt racism in the "half-race" entries? Even if (especially if) GMs are not meant to display it, I fear that a new GM/player could read the entry and automatically think "oh that's the official way to play them so I 'll play like it I guess!"