Darl Quethos

Browman's page

RPG Superstar 8 Season Dedicated Voter, 9 Season Dedicated Voter. Organized Play Member. 4,491 posts (7,304 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Organized Play characters. 28 aliases.


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I maintain that any class in the core book should not be restricted to a single alignment.

That being said, almost everything about this seems like an improvement over the existing way Paladins are handled. Giving the code an order of priority will reduce the likelyhood of no win situations where regardless of choice the Paladin falls. Having god specific rules is also good.


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the nerve-eater of Zur-en-Aarh wrote:
thflame wrote:


What's the class that gets its powers from the elemental forces of Chaos and Evil? Law and Evil? Good and Chaos? Just Good? Just Law? Just Evil? Just Chaos? Utter Neutrality?

You see the problem here? There are people who want to play a class like Paladin, but want to get their power from another source.

I am all for these classes existing. As different base classes.

That seems like a lot of unnecessary replication, wouldn't it work better as orders, archetypes or some other system with one base class?


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Tarik Blackhands wrote:
Browman wrote:
Tarik Blackhands wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:

Walsh, how does it hurt you if the Paladin remains everything you want it to be, but the chassis is used to create a 9 branched Class like the wizard.

Paladins get to be exclusively shining beacons of Lawful Good, but Pathfinder gets more characters from a small amount more wordcount (Perhaps double)

I'm not Walsh but I'll try to offer an explanation.

Essentially, Paladins as a (largely) exclusive champion of LG is a part of the flavor that goes with Pathfinder/Golarion and some people happen to like that particular flavor for whatever reason. Tossing in 7 (lets presume archtypeless anti-pals are still around for dastardly bad guys) other versions can be viewed as watering down the class's/world's flavor just to put a few checkmarks on some nebulous "player options!" box.

If I had to think of a similar version that resonates more with me (since I care little about Golarion, let alone it's version Paladins), it would probably be like someone having a game of Dark Heresy where suddenly every class could just pick up Mechanicus Implants and their associated talents rather than it being exclusive to tech-priests and their affiliated alternates. Does it offer more options to people who wanted a Sororita with cogboy implants (to pick the most ludicrous example off the top of my head)? Sure. But it certainly takes a hatchet to the background and setting's (Warhammer 40k) flavor that many players (me included) would view as not worth the trade compared to adding a few options for players.

That argument might make sense if Pathfinder was designed solely for Golarion like Dark Heresy is for 40k. But currently pathfinder is not Golarion specific and it should stay setting neutral in the core book.
1.0 may have been more (anyone who says totally I will call a liar) setting neutral, but times are changing and the devs are pretty locked into PF2 being more tied to Golarion. The exact extent of how tied it is...

That seems like a good way to limit growth of the game, Golarion is not a setting for everyone.


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Tarik Blackhands wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:

Walsh, how does it hurt you if the Paladin remains everything you want it to be, but the chassis is used to create a 9 branched Class like the wizard.

Paladins get to be exclusively shining beacons of Lawful Good, but Pathfinder gets more characters from a small amount more wordcount (Perhaps double)

I'm not Walsh but I'll try to offer an explanation.

Essentially, Paladins as a (largely) exclusive champion of LG is a part of the flavor that goes with Pathfinder/Golarion and some people happen to like that particular flavor for whatever reason. Tossing in 7 (lets presume archtypeless anti-pals are still around for dastardly bad guys) other versions can be viewed as watering down the class's/world's flavor just to put a few checkmarks on some nebulous "player options!" box.

If I had to think of a similar version that resonates more with me (since I care little about Golarion, let alone it's version Paladins), it would probably be like someone having a game of Dark Heresy where suddenly every class could just pick up Mechanicus Implants and their associated talents rather than it being exclusive to tech-priests and their affiliated alternates. Does it offer more options to people who wanted a Sororita with cogboy implants (to pick the most ludicrous example off the top of my head)? Sure. But it certainly takes a hatchet to the background and setting's (Warhammer 40k) flavor that many players (me included) would view as not worth the trade compared to adding a few options for players.

That argument might make sense if Pathfinder was designed solely for Golarion like Dark Heresy is for 40k. But currently pathfinder is not Golarion specific and it should stay setting neutral in the core book.


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If Paladin stays restricted to LG it probably shouldn't be in the CRB. Core classes should be broad ideas that can fit many character concepts, not really narrow ones that put lots of restrictions on you options, keep those classes for later supplements.


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Igwilly wrote:
Athaleon wrote:


No one is talking about that either.

Apparently, yes, people are talking about that. I'll oppose them.

Browman wrote:


A tradition some fans like, and others don't. Nothing will stop people from restricting alignment in their own campaign.

I fail to see how gatekeeping other people's fun serves any useful purpose. Tradition alone (particularly when you pick and chose what tradition to keep) is not a good reason. You and/ or your GM can very easily change any lore/ fluff to whatever best fits your own game and it is far easier to restrict things that way than expand things.

First: Having one class grounded on specific ethos-and-moral-code fluff (which would include alignment in an alignment-based system) is hardly "gatekeeping other people's fun". No one is being forced to play a paladin.

Second: As I have repeatedly told, everyone is more than welcome to create the concepts they want to play, be as classes, archetypes or whatever. Be my guests. Just don't spoil the classics.

I think I've already explained numerous times why this hypothetical watered-down "paladin" being used as a real paladin would completely destroy the Paladin's legacy. Many others have joined, too. For any further questions, just go back to previous posts ^^

And yet when people want to make a character that is very similar to a Paladin but not bound within a tiny LG box, people come out of the woodwork to say that they are having wrong/bad/incorrect fun and it is ruining their traditional/right/correct fun. No company is going to make 2 classes that are very similar but one is bound is a tiny alignment restricted box and the other isn't.

I think the best way forward is to have a LG specific archetype of Paladin that does what the traditionalists want while the other options within the class allow freedom for those who want it. Then those who want to can say that only that specific archetype is usable in their game.


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Igwilly wrote:
willuwontu wrote:
Igwilly wrote:


So yes, this still is a straw-man. Suggestion for using one tradition does not imply following all others: traditions are not all equal, for good reason :)
Exactly, so why keep a bad one.
Classic Paladin is a good tradition. A tradition we (its fans) like. Let's just keep it :)

A tradition some fans like, and others don't. Nothing will stop people from restricting alignment in their own campaign.

I fail to see how gatekeeping other people's fun serves any useful purpose. Tradition alone (particularly when you pick and chose what tradition to keep) is not a good reason. You and/ or your GM can very easily change any lore/ fluff to whatever best fits your own game and it is far easier to restrict things that way than expand things.


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Saru should definitely be captain


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Delightful wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Delightful wrote:
Can't we dislike Poe and Holdo both for withholding information from each other?

Sure. I absolutely agree that Holdo shouldn't have left a hotshot sitting around with nothing to do but come up with bad ideas. Maybe she should have told him the plan, and set him on getting the transports ready.

But would "Poe helps the Resistance quietly slip away and hide from the First Order" been a meaningful story to tell alongside Rey and Luke meeting and working out a master/student relationship? I mean, Finn would have been about just as useless as he was in the actual film, so no change there?

Honestly as much as I like Finn and Poe, the Last Jedi would have been a better film if their stories (diversions really) were completely cut and more time was given to Rey's training.

The entire movie feels like they had a decent idea for the Rey, Luke, Kylo Ren side, then realized they had no plan for anyone else, they don't care about anyone else and everything not related to the Force storyline gets phoned in.


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TriOmegaZero wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
That... isn't a plan.
You’re right. That’s the clusterf#+& that Poe caused by making his own plan. A plan that failed and got a lot more people killed.

None of the issues Big Norse Wolf point out have anything to do with Poe creating a separate plan. The only reason Poe's plan was what caused the main plan to fail was the plot required that, all the other reasons should have caused the plan to fail well before that. Also why does Admiral Holdo say she likes Poe? Their combined actions and lack of trust killed almost the entire resistance.


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DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

This. Was. The. Best. Star. War.

Again just saying something doesn't make it true. This. Is. The. Worst. Star. Wars. Movie. Outside. The. Prequals. That has a much authority as your statement.

Spoiler:
What orders? She says nothing when she takes over. As far as anyone can tell there is no plan. She seems unable to make a decision. As soon as Poe finds out what the plan actually is, he is totally on board. Bad leaders keep people in the dark, especially in bad situations like this. The admiral's bad leadership caused everything that led her plan to fail.


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DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

This. Was. The. Best. Star. War.

Just repeatedly saying something doesn't make it so.

Spoiler:
She doesn't specifically owe Poe an explanation, she owes everyone an explanation. She apparently has no plan other than keep running which will clearly end with everyone dead. She is taking over as leader, one of the first things you need to do in that situation is to reassure everyone that things will be ok. Saying nothing in a clearly bad situation reassures no one. By not saying anything it seems like she has no plan and just going to get everyone killed. Ironically her plan failed entirely because she didn't tell people. If she had told people they never would have encountered the guy who sold them out.


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I saw it earlier today and really didn't like it.

Spoiler:
Finn's storyline was basically pointless. Rose was annoying and basically made every scene she was in worse.

The entire cruiser chase plotline was terrible, Hux caught the rebellion with their pants down and somehow his grand plan was to make them think they escaped so he could keep chasing them and lose a huge ship in the process. How he survived losing a planet sized death star makes minimal sense, Snoke shouldn't have shown mercy for stupidity a second time. All Hux had to do was launch fighters as soon as he jumped in and have his star destroyers go after the cruiser while the dreadnought blew up the base.

The stupidity of that plotline only got worse. Leia suddenly has active force powers? Force users can survive deep space? The new admiral thinks the best plan is to let everyone think her plan is to keep running and hope the First Order gets bored? The First order's only plan is to chase them for 3 days while they wait for them to run out of fuel? And they need their entire fleet to do it? It is one cruiser, you need like 3-5 star destroyers to guarantee it will die, not a super ship and your whole fleet.

Rey's parents being no one was dumb, why did we waste all that time in the force awakens if it is irrelevant.

Luke dying made no sense to me, the reveal that he was projecting was one of the best parts of the movie and to me was entirely undone by him dying afterwards.

Where are the Knights of Ren? That was one of the best concepts the force awakens had and they appear to be completely forgotten at this point. Weren't they at the destruction of Luke's jedi temple?

The movie had some good moments but was a terrible star wars movie that blatantly ignored the established setting. I have no intention of watching any other star wars movies by this director.


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At some point someone had to wear the studio meddling that clearly impacted the quality of movies and sales of tickets for those movies.


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CapeCodRPGer wrote:
Anyone else think once the final season airs, the demand for the last couple of books will fall?

The showrunners haven't done a good job any time they haven't had book material to back them up in my opinion. So lots of people will probably still want the "proper" ending.


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And yet there are currently 3 stones on earth.


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regardless of people's opinion of the Lord of the Rings movies, they are way too fresh in people's minds to try a different adaptation of the book.

That being said, having just finished re-reading the Lord of the Rings, I don't know how you could have done a better adaptation that would actually sell tickets. Parts of the book drag on/ having little relevance to the overall plot/ introduce characters unconnected to the main story. In order to get decent pacing for movies, things had to be cut/ re-organized.

The Hobbit on the other hand was a complete mess of an adaptation and should have been max 2 movies, I am pretty sure they only decided to do 3 after they had already finished the first.

If this show goes forwards I think doing anything else in the setting other than the main story/ stories would be a better idea.


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Iceman1077 wrote:
Browman wrote:
weird that they started on a Sunday then shift to Thursday after two episodes. That seems like bad planning.
It was intentional. They goal was to get the football audience to stick around for the show, then hopefully follow when they moved it to Thursday. Thursday they will see if it worked.

Don't shows need to actually be established and have a decent following before people are likely to care enough to track changes in broadcast time?


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weird that they started on a Sunday then shift to Thursday after two episodes. That seems like bad planning.


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Set, I agree they did a good job portraying Alexandra as long lived, but they didn't do a good job of making her seem dangerous.


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Fardragon wrote:
Voss wrote:
Benjamin Medrano wrote:

I'm going to try one last time.

To those of you who don't understand why I'm irritated about elves: Take your favorite race, I don't care what race it is, one with a history. Now, take it and base the entire society on the worst tropes of the race in media, save for a handful of outcasts, and have that be the society in the game.

Not following you still. Those 'tropes' are what makes that race a 'race.' If they weren't elitist isolationist blaggards, they wouldn't be elves. They'd probably be kender.

Alternately: fantasy and sci-fi races are defined by their tropes. Even not following them (which you see occasionally in star trek with ferengi psychopaths or klingon scientists) still works with the trope to create something interesting.

Indeed. Consider the Protoss. They are generally considered "space elves". Why is that? They don't have pointy ears. They don't live in trees. They don't use longbows. They don't sing jolly songs in the moonlight. What they are is arrogant isolationists. Those are the tropes that define what people understand a (post-tolkien) elf to be.

A race that is friendly, extrovert and humble isn't an elf, it's a tall kender.

Since starcraft was originally supposed to be a warhammer 40k game, Protoss are based on Eldar. And Eldar are space elves.


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Matthais wrote:
As a side note, if you do not want me to take "Blooded by the Code", since it is not in the DA: V20 book, it is not a big deal at all. I'll just spend those points on Valeren 3 instead.

It is fine, I just like to know where things are from.


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So Chk Chk will be old enough to be an iconic in his own right by the time starfinder is releasing supplements with new classes.


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Agents of gaming is still selling their remaining stock of Babylon 5 warships. If you went with fleet scale, individual ships run from $3 to $10 American. Models are metal and come unpainted.


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Went to see it last night. Definitely one of the best X-Men movies.

more detailed thoughts:
seeing Professor X like that was tragic and his death was even more tragic.

Logan slowly dying from adamantium poisoning was sad and doesn't bode well for X23's future.

I found the story very interesting, including that they left many things vague. Humanity was "vaccinated" to stop random mutants from appearing but it was unclear if it also removed people's existing powers. Also did Prof X accidentally kill most of the X-Men or was it random people? Even he didn't seem to know.

I kind of wanted Logan to survive so he could train all the X23s but I still hope to see a sequel about them.


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It could have a strong warhammer 40k Tyranid influence as well.


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Lupus human name is Miguel Santos, Uktena Theurge Rank 1

Per+Alert: 3d10 + 3d10 ⇒ (3, 5, 4) + (5, 1, 7) = 25

wits+Eni: 3d10 + 2d10 ⇒ (5, 10, 5) + (2, 4) = 26

Int+Rit: 4d10 + 3d10 ⇒ (6, 1, 8, 2) + (10, 10, 10) = 47

"Why would our tribes do something like this? It is a terrible plan and one that breaks all tradition. Is it not more likely that something else wants us fighting each other instead of them?"


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KahnyaGnorc wrote:

I can also do 9x/5+32 in my head to figure out what a temperature in Celcius means, but that doesn't mean I want to, or that it's in any way optimal, or close to it.

(Never mind trying to convert km to miles so I can figure out about how long a distance it is.)

approximately 1.6 kilometers = 1 mile


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As a Canadian with an engineering degree I have no problem with using imperial for simple things, which is all you will need for the average game of pathfinder or starfinder. But using Imperial for any kind of scientific or engineering calculations is complete and total heresy and makes everything way more complicated than it needs to be.


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What about elves that like some versions of Fay cannot lie? Sure they can imply things, leave things out and otherwise manipulate things, but they can't directly lie. Phrasing becomes super important, multiple sentences that mean the same thing to humans mean completely different things to elves. The elves native tongue would probably have many, many more words. It would have a huge impact on their entire culture.


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Bennybeck Wabbittracks wrote:
Browman wrote:
Bennybeck Wabbittracks wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Bennybeck Wabbittracks wrote:
Are there examples in Golarion of what might be considered Native American, Meso American or Hispanic cultures?
Not well developed yet. The continent of Arcadia is the Americas analog. There was a bit about it in Distant Shores and some hints elsewhere.
The lack of development then could be argued as a lack of inclusive ty to the fan base. There are members of these groups which play the game as well.
Surely it is a much better idea to have it stated that such an area exists and people are free to have characters from there than rush something that ends up being bad stereotypes. Much of the Africa and Asia analogs aren't terribly well developed either. And it is a fantasy setting, why does there even need to be an analog of every culture from earth?
Inclusive ty. Why are some groups included then and not others?

But where does one draw the line, you realistically can't include every single self identifying group. Also isn't including something simply to be inclusive a problem in and of itself?

I am not trying to say that golarion or any other setting shouldn't be inclusive, but it has to be done in a way that makes for that setting. And these things shouldn't be rushed, as I said previously it is better to briefly mention that something is out there in an unexplored part of the setting than doing poor quality work.


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Bennybeck Wabbittracks wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Bennybeck Wabbittracks wrote:
Are there examples in Golarion of what might be considered Native American, Meso American or Hispanic cultures?
Not well developed yet. The continent of Arcadia is the Americas analog. There was a bit about it in Distant Shores and some hints elsewhere.
The lack of development then could be argued as a lack of inclusive ty to the fan base. There are members of these groups which play the game as well.

Surely it is a much better idea to have it stated that such an area exists and people are free to have characters from there than rush something that ends up being bad stereotypes. Much of the Africa and Asia analogs aren't terribly well developed either. And it is a fantasy setting, why does there even need to be an analog of every culture from earth?


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I like the fact that you can do many different things as a rogue trader and crew. You can be privateers and smugglers, you can be explorers and colonists, you can be a salvager, you can assist in military operations, you can legitimately ship goods for the Imperium and you can do all these things in any combination that fits the story.


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My guess is the new movie will have minimal impact and not be very good.

On the store side of things, FLGS need to adapt as businesses always have. Gaming cafe/ store seems to be the new way to go, along with a healthy supply of magic cards and Friday night magic.


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Most people who have never been DM/GM think it is way harder than it is. Between that and some really terrible players that cause all sorts of problems, lots of people's first venture into DMing isn't pleasant so they don't go back.

I got into it because it was either I GMed or I didn't game. Now 7 years later I can GM a pathfinder session with about 10 minutes of prep, I can GM some other systems with no prep.


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Male Ifrit Paladin 1

Telthes has had enough and smites the fell creature.

"In the name of all that is good and right I declare you an unholy creation of evil. I name you anathema to both the living and the dead. May the gods aid me in ridding your fell presence from the land."

+5 normally, +3 from smite, +2 from flanking -1 from power attack =+9: 1d20 + 9 ⇒ (8) + 9 = 17

damage +2 from power attack +3 str +6 smite vs undead: 1d8 + 11 ⇒ (4) + 11 = 15

Grand Lodge

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Male Dwarf Barbarian 1

Hol'Tos accepts a teacup, but is clearly not used to such sophisticated things and appears unsure how to drink from it properly for a moment before using an all around grasp and drinking half the liquid in one gulp. Some of the tea spills down into his carefully braided beard and onto his tunic. All his clothes look well maintained but have seen some miles and don't appear to have been bought for fashion; they are practical clothes in dark earthy colours. currently his greatsword rests in it's sheath on the ground to his right while his shortbow and quiver rest to his left.

"I also share these concerns, if we hurt or kill many of those responsible for transporting the fake exilir, there will be less guards to protect the real one."


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Male Elf Druid 2 0 Hero point 19/19 HP

"My thanks for this weapon, hopefully I will not have to put it to good use."

"unfortunately all it takes for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing. While I am sure the intentions at the time were noble, now it seems to me that a system designed to protect from the blight has been corrupted to benefit a few at the expense of many. Most of my people have been treated as little better than slaves with no rationale or choice given and some banished to slums for nothing more than being born to the wrong parents. Before I left to see you, Auramesties mentioned something which sounded very similar to buying the freedom of the expedition from our masters. If your system can completely justify treating thousands as slaves for the crime of escaping certain death; then it has become the very evil you sought to avoid all those years ago."


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Map

In spanish

"You are American? Because you definitely aren't Mexican military. We know nothing about the other villages where people disappeared, but a few of the children said they saw a strange man standing in the jungle. They said he was tall, but when I went to look there was no one there."


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Pete Carlton wrote:

Mark when you return, you are going to want to make a Dodge roll and likely spend Fate to make sure or you will be in rough shape buddy.

Im sad we didnt get a working ship but sometimes that is the case. I didnt expect it though. I now know the creatures cant take much from a Melee hit either.

It wouldn't really be like x-com if getting alien tech was easy would it?


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Admiral Ackbar will helpfully explain what is happening.


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More guidance for GMs either from Paizo or created by experienced GMs in the community would be great for GMs both new and old.


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Saying that a Lawful Neutral organization is really actually lawful evil, they are just in denial isn't helping your argument. It is also pretty far into the stupid end of lawful good characters.


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I may or may not have a half-red dragon troll barbarian stated up that spent a lot of money on potions.


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I have a strange feeling that not a lot of people play Paladins in groups that very, very rigidly interpret Paladin codes.


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I agree that doing humble bundle frequently would probably be bad for business for Paizo. Especially if it was on some kind of semi-public schedule.


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And yet it is canon that Paladins can be Hellknights. So clearly at least some deities don't see it the same way you do.


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niamariae wrote:

I have the most ridiculous question ever, that isn't really to do with the game, but in my downloads for all the rulebooks and guides it has several options: One File per Chapter, One File per Chapter-Lite, Single File, and Single File-Lite. I just download one, right? Probably the Single File?

I'm really looking forward to playing! I know a few people who play games like this but I've never played myself so hopefully I can get the hang of it!

Single file is the whole book in one PDF, Single File lite is designed for using on old tablets or another platform that wouldn't like dealing with the bigger files. Per chapter is each chapter in a separate file which makes things easier if you are using something with limited storage and you only need certain chapters on that device.

If you have any questions use the search feature or open up a new thread, I am sure there will be people that are able to answer any of your questions.


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Pacing is key with play by post, if people aren't posting, then people don't post and it just feeds off itself until the game dies.


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In this campaign you will be reincarnating many times throughout the ages, guiding your people in times of importance. You will probably play each character through only a handful of scenes. Your people start as a small clan of about a dozen adults and a few children in the stone age. At this stage your clan doesn't have any racial traits or abilities, that will change over time. What decisions you make as players will impact what racial traits, stats and abilities your people develop.

Throughout the ages you will encounter others that are able to transcend one mortal lifetime.

Each time your character reincarnates, you will gain 1 or more reincarnation points that let you retain things from your past lives.

reincarnation points:

1 point = 1 free skill rank in a skill your previous character had

2 points = 1 bonus hit point

4 points = one feat your last character had that you still meet the prerequisites for

5 points = 1 first level class ability your previous character had or 1 level 1 spell your previous character could cast 1/day.

For your first characters class choice is extremely limited. Over the reincarnations more will become available over time.

first character creation:

1st level
15 point buy
No race
no traits
half your normal class average starting money
only bone, stone or hide for weapons and armour
classes available = Barbarian, fighter, ranger, rogue, slayer

In order to keep things moving I am looking for people who can post at least once a day.

Finally 2 other questions

What terrain is your clan currently living in? Why?

Why should your first character be chosen to carry his spirit through the ages?

Of course if you have any questions I will be happy to answer them.

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