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I have played a monk/empyreal sorcerer multiclass. Dipping sorcerer beyond 1 level limits the combination. I found that a sorcerer dip of 1 level was good for being able to cast a few supportive spells (feather fall, true strike, some utility cantrips), to use arcane wands (mage armor and shield) and to boost will saves. The sorcerer doesn't get 2nd level spells until 4th level, at which point the character loses out on BAB, and severely delays getting the monk's other class abilities. Yeah, that's about what I was thinking. Mostly I wanted access to the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list. I was planning to take Shield and Mage Armor as first-level spells, but I could just get a wand of Shield for 2 PP. Thanks for reminding me about Feather Fall. Actually, if I am taking only 1 level of sorcerer, I might play some other race. The second favored class is less important for a 1 level dip. I like dwarves as monks.
I have a PC that has reached Level 2 on GM credit, and I will begin playing this PC soon. I have been thinking about combining unchained monk with empyreal sorcerer; I think the two combine well. Both use wisdom, and the sorcerer's good will save bolsters the monk's weak will save. Does anyone out there have experience with a similar character? I plan to play a half-elf to get the benefits of two favored classes. Naturally I want the Magical Knack trait. I am debating whether to end up as Monk 11/Sorc 1, or Monk 8/Sorc 4. I had planned to play either a Tetori or a Hungry Ghost monk, but if I multiclass, I would rather have full BAB and d10 hit dice. Besides, in my last adventure, we faced a ghoul. That experience soured me on playing a Tetori; I don't relish the thought of wrestling with a ghoul.
Brother Sapo, having played once at first level, and never at second, is still an amorphous blob. Sapo, inspired by the handsome, beautiful and altogether admirable Bruno Breakbone, has decided to follow the path of the Tetori.
Monks are meant to be part of "two great tastes that taste great together" as one half of many gestalt builds.Except that Pathfinder has no gestalt in RAW. For a PFS player, if you are not using RAW, yes, you're doing it wrong.
A common complaint about the monk is that two of the class features, fast movement and flurry of blows, are mutually exclusive. How about this to compensate? Mobile Flurry could be either a feat or a class feature. A monk of 6th level or higher could substitute moving 1/2 his speed for the extra attacks provided by his "TWF" equivalent. A sixth-level human monk would normally have a speed of 50' or three attcks at +4/+4/-1 if stationary and using FoB. Using Mobile Flurry, he could move 25' and get two attacks at +4/-1. Essentially, the monk gets a full attack at a -2 penalty combined with some movement.
The Ki Arrows ability changes the damage dice, but nothing else. The zen archer cannot use his arrows to bypass DR until he gains the Ki Focus Bow ability at 17th level. Note that the Ki Focus enchantment cannot be placed on a bow - this is an ability of the monk himself, not a property of the weapon.
This change represents all that I could have wanted for the monk. My major frustration was the difficulty in overcoming DR - now that is no longer an issue. Woo-hoo! The knuckleduster rule always made sense to me - the knuckleduster forces the punch to be thrown in a specific way, which (in my opinion, at least) would interfere with the monk's Unarmed Strike, thus reducing damage. At most, I might allow a monk to inflict half damage if he used them.
The description in d20pfsrd (quoting Ultimate Combat) says:
So it's a chain, except when it's a rope. How is that confusing?
As I read the weapon description and RAW, it is a free action to change from reach to adjacent by pulling one kama back to you. It is also a free action to drop an object, in this case one of the kama.
Sadly, I have not yet had the chance to play Br. Sapo (not his real name - the order gives monks names like that). He is steadfast in his loyalty to Irori and the Ruby Prince.
BUT he is not shy at all when fighting.
Not quite. The monk uses his monk level for BAB while using FoB, so his "BAB" is +4. He adds the +4 from 4 levels of fighter, which gets him to +8/+3 (with iterative attack). He adds another attack from FoB, at his highest bonus, and takes a -2 penalty on all attacks, so his net bonus while using FoB is +6/+6/+1. His BAB while he is not using FoB is +7/+2 (3 from 4 levels of monk and 4 from 4 levels of fighter).
So BAB from other classes doesn't stack with Flurry?It stacks with the bonus to hit, but doesn't give you extra attacks. A fourth level monk gets 1 extra attack from FoB. I would think that a 4th level monk with 4 levels of fighter would have FoB bonus of +6/+6/+1. His "BAB equivalent" while using FoB would be enough to give him iterative attacks. The FoB would add one more. Would his FoB bonus be +6/+6/+1 or +6/+1 (only two attacks)? *EDIT* Please understand, I am seeking clarification, not criticizing.
You can't cast See Invisibility on the monk or on anyone else - its range is personal. The only thing you could do is hand the monk a wand of See Invisible and hope he makes a UMD check. Believe me, this is a great source of frustration in our party. Our GM loves to throw invisible stuff at us, and we don't yet have an effective counter.*EDIT* This is why my monk characters are prone to have 1 level of empyreal sorcerer.
I can only wait and see what happens. Brother Sapo, my PFS monk (no archetype yet, but almost certainly Qinggong) reached 2nd level on GM credit and "We Be Goblins", but I haven't had a chance to play the character yet. Maybe the character will die quickly or be unable to contribute in any meaningful way. Maybe the character will shine and make everyone else feel inferior. Maybe somewhere in between.
Thee are many sides to this argument, and all are right to some degree. I would like to see the monk get the ability to bypass more types of DR, perhaps by spending ki. I would like to see the monk's AC bonus kick in earlier and progress more quickly. I would like the Wholeness of Body to heal more than 1 point per level. I would like to see the AC increase from spending a ki point last more than 1 round. I have found that 1 level of empyreal sorcerer helps compensate for the monk's weaknesses. It is unfortunate that the "Magical Knack" trait is not allowed in PFS.
One thrown weapon (the only one as far as I know) that is treated as ammunition, and so does not need to be drawn, is the shuriken. But only a monk can use it effectively; it is a monk weapon so it can be used in a flurry of blows. The damage is only 1d2 (plus STR bonus) and the range increment is 10'.
Just the other day, I had to help my allies by grappling my own ally. He was confused and attacking us, so I had to grapple him and get him out of the way. We needed to protect ourselves from him, preferably without hurting him. Whether you use grapple or FoB will depend mostly on the situation. You need to neutralize an archer, a spellcaster or someone using a two-handed weapon? Grapple.You need to fight lots of mooks? FoB.
First you have to get close enough. I can generally outrun anyone who tries, if any are left after I pepper them with arrows. Then you have to get through my CMD and AoO (unless you have Improved Disarm).It is possible to disarm me or sunder my bow, but not terribly easy.
... psionics is too complex a system to add on. You can add a witch easily, as they use standard casting mechanics, but a psion? You'd have to explain not just the class but the whole system. You make an excellent point (which I inadvertently confirmed in my first post). Perhaps the monk could be a sort of "spontaneous caster", with a spell progression similar to that of the bard. The monk's powers would be spell-like abilities. Anyway, we have a cool idea to play test.
9quote=Ashiel]
I am new to Psionics Unleashed; I do not understand the "8 remaining" PP. I cannot see how Koji spent 10 points. If I read your original poat correctly, you keep all the powers allotted to the monk in D&D 3.5 and add the new powers from psionic ability. Is that correct? How would you feel about using the Pathfinder monk, but replacing all ki powers (extra attack, AC bonus, speed boost, high jump, wholeness of body, abundant step, empty body) with his new psionic ability? Our group has a Rise of the Runelords campaign going. I will ask permission to try your new shiny monk there, when I am able to play again. The idea was brilliant. I hope Paizo uses something like this in a future CRB.
Aargh!
DR: Create a new 8th level Ki power for the Qinggong monk. For a cost of 2 Ki points, the monk's unarmed strikes bypass one type of DR (except chaos or an alignment that does not match the monk's alignment) for a number of rounds equal to the monk's level. Or change the Ki strike DR bypass to:
HP: Improve Wholeness of Body. It would be a move action or a swift action rather than a standard action. It would heal the monk's WIS modifier per level (minimum 1/lvl) rather than 1 point per level. Perhaps it could even grant temporary HP (limited to 1/lvl).
I play a dwarf Zen Archer, 25-point build, currently level 8. I have seldom cared about my AC, because the Zen Archer is usually well out of the fray, peppering the bad guys with arrows from afar. The one spell I would wish for is Abundant Ammunition. When I take damage, AC seldom matters; I am usually the victim of area-effect spells. I usually take half damage because I make my saving throw.
If they intended FoB to require two weapons, then they should not have used this description.
Monk: A monk weapon can be used by a monk to perform a flurry of blows (see Classes). The description does not say, "...as part of a flurry of blows." The description says, "...to perform a flurry of blows." I have not seen any reference to this before, but maybe I just missed it. I would interpret that wording to mean that all the attacks could be done with one weapon. I seem to be arguing both sides of this debate.
I am laughing too, Master. A ranger is a powerful character. And I have to admit that "Wholeness of Body" is pretty shabby.
Master Arminas:
Your reference to 1.5x STR bonus on damage is not relevant, unless your character can combine TWF with a two-handed weapon. A ranger using TWF has the same BAB as a flurrying monk, if the ranger's off-hand weapon is light. Yes, the ranger gets lots of good class features, but so does the monk. The 4/4 BAB vs. 3/4 BAB does not equal 5 until 17th level. At that level, the monk has: 5 bonus feats, 17 uses of stunning fist, 2d8 damage on unarmed strike, improved evasion, maneuver training, still mind, +50 feet speed, +4 AC, the ability to ignore DR/magic, DR/lawful and DR/adamantine, high jump, slow fall 80', poison and disease immunity, spell resistance 27, dimension door, immunity to aging, quivering palm, ki, the abillity to heal himself as a standard action, and tongue of the sun and moon. Not too shabby.
For the Zen Archer, call it "Flurry of Arrows". One problem solved. The Zen Archer can shoot fast.
That's what I like best about this game. The published rules are really just a starting point.
I think they can already flurry with the temple sword in two hands. Exactly. Per RAW they can. I think that is wrong. Even before the current FoB flap, I thought the reference to THF in the FoB description was not accidental. One could not wield two weapons and a weapon in both hands simultaneously. That is why I think it ("2-handed flurry") should be disallowed.
Random thoughts: 1. A monk (other than Zen Archer) can spend a Ki point to increase the range increment of shuriken. At 4th level, the RI becomes 20', at 8th level, 30' and at 12th level, 40'. 2. An 8th level Qinggong power: Bypass DR
3. I would allow the monk to flurry with a single weapon, but not to use "2-handed flurry" to get 1.5x power attack bonus. 4. A 16th level Qinggong power: Bypass All DR
The iconic monk description HERE says Sajan has the Greater Disarm feat. The monk's bonus feat list includes Improved Disarm but the description of Greater Disarm specifies that INT 13 and Combat Expertise are prerequisites (in addition to Improved Disarm) for the Greater Disarm feat. Is this an error in the iconic, or is Improved Disarm really a sufficient prerequisite in this instance?
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