Bringslite's page

@ DeciusBrutus

Could you please refrain from enlightening people with truth when they present opinions based on false information?

Could you please also not "ask" them politely to take their opinions based on false information elsewhere?

My goodness! I can hardly sit back while you bully people this way!

@ Others

Totally see your discomfort with the EBA policy that is attempting to claim a portion of the map for their citizens.

I also see what your objections are and what they are built upon.

*Clearly it is beyond the pale that an alliance should define territory for it's members. Resources are infinite, will always be so, and certainly not valuable. It is ridiculous for anyone to try and preserve them for their members while trying to keep their land safer for those members.

*Remarkable and inconceivable that they would have the boldness to publically announce said territory. It seems much more reasonable to barely say anything themselves and just kill every non ally or innocent that operates within short range of their holdings.

*And they further compound this activity by questioning people they see within this publically declared territory and then letting those people proceed with their business if they appear to be harmless!

*Perhaps I should also point out that the game is underway (for us EE people) right now. It is a true sign of evil intent for the EBA to demonstrate their ability to back up their publically claimed territory with force if it is needed. THEN they have the nerve to withdraw and let enemies have their towers back.

Just an outsider's opinion here. A complete lack of communication, from both sides, has caused this.

That is fine as there is some life in the game because of it. Not all casualties in this probably feel the same way though.

@ Bluddwolf

**clap, clap**

Very amusing, and deceptive, as usual. Two plus years of pontificating and espousing ganking, banditry, dirty tricks, and manipulation of mechanics to further advance your agenda. How was the philosophy and agenda of the UNC (and later Aragon) delivered for those two plus years? How about the policies and agenda of Golgotha?

I do wonder why the EBA came out ready to rumble. Probably has nothing to do with two plus years of forum fun in which they were assured that they would fail, be outclassed in PVP, and in general be unable to "survive" in this deadly game.

Please note that I (personally) have no problem with your endlessly pontificating your point of view or that it changes to suit the current events. Nor objection (personally) with your core stated goals of banditry. We have both evolved as the community has evolved. My own attitudes have most definitely changed. Strengthening in a "character" sense and loosening in an "OOC" sense.

It is far more honest to be forthright in publically expressing your policies than it is to deceive endlessly and repeatedly the newer people to these forums. Anyone that reads your post (above) and believes that they are safe from your members, in your area of Ops, has been mislead by you.

At least Golgotha is honest in that they will most likely go after any they see (in an area near them) that is not a known friend. Also that they go on "occasional murder walkabouts".

From what I have observed, the EBA (all member states within) are very open to new players visiting, trading, adventuring within their publically claimed territory. Most assuredly if those persons ask first. They do not attack people that are not known enemies. Their policy may be to attack any members of known enemy organizations that trespass. How would you deal with a similar situation? I mean if you had some members? Is there a better way to protect and preserve your local area for your members, considering that resources are not immediately infinite?

I would go so far as to state that any sizable group which does not try to protect it's members and preserve an area for them to play and harvest, will have problems. Endless problems.

Claims to territory do not have to be respected by everyone. They are, like all things here: "yours if you can hold them". Claims and perceived ownership is what this game is about. It is not EVIL to declare territory for your members. It is not wrong to enforce those claims.

So, New Players! Do not trust bandits that are inviting you to their area. The only reason they do so is because they know that they can't enforce their own territory regularly. If they see you, they will most likely come after you.

Duffy wrote:

@Tuffon

Out of curiosity cause I seriously don't know: is them farming the northern escalation in question in any way, shape, or form a violation of any territory claims or agreements? The status of any escalations in their own claimed territory is kinda irrelevant to the conversation in my Lawful Evil opinion.

No, it didn't breach any agreement. Just like AGC placing a base camp didn't breach any agreement.

Except T7V used it as their excuse to break a tower ceasefire. Which they never actually agreed to. Except sometimes they did agree to it. But only when it is helpful for their public image.

Here is some spin. There probably wasn't a specific line in any agreement about basecamps. There wasn't as far as I know any agreement about territorial boundaries at all.

There was a clear statement about territory, though. Very clear. That all comes down to: Do what you want, but expect reaction.

Bringslite the south has been doing the same thing for weeks. How are we at fault?

I did not include Golgotha in what I wrote. Honestly, I really don't know much about what goes on down there.

Trying to grasp what you are saying. Are you saying that EBA or Phaeros has been putting down base camps or small holdings in Golgothan territory?

What is Xeillias' publically claimed territory? We should start with that.

Are you saying that they have been messaging you that they don't care what you do with "X's" towers and then coming in to take them?

Not trying to be dense or argumentative. There is information that I do not have. There is also (as usual) spin enough to cloud all the issues.

Just can't stay out...

Poachers are one thing. A base camp or small holding is a notch up. It is there, in your face, and it can't be removed in any way shape or form against the holder's will.

Anyone that places such a structure in anyone else's claimed territory, should be aware that it is offensive. Unless they are very, very challenged individuals.

I don't believe that AGC are anything short of pretty smart. I do believe that they do not respect EBA territory. I do believe that they have a grasp of politics in this game. I do believe that they like trouble.

Just last week AGC moved to Kreuz Bernstein. I received a PM or two stating that Ozem's could do what it wants with Aragon's towers. A day or two later they attacked that tower. They did take it away. There was no complaining. There was no forum barf. It seemed like a move totally in character for AGC.

If you twist agreements beyond what both parties expect from them and/or consider as the intent, that is called using loop holes. Great play for lawful evil. Any agreement with them should start with an accurate paragraph or two describing it's "intent". Then it should be looked over by evil minded people that are on your side.

Ryan and all GW,

Just wanted to let you know, even if there is a roll back today, this patch (v4.1) really shows that you are all working hard. The game gets better and better.

We really do appreciate most of these new features and changes. You are really adding depth to the whole game here.

Well done.

I am curious to read what exactly is the proper level of urgency in reporting such things.

Is it an email with game footage, in red, charts, Cthuthulian math and GIANT FONT?

What makes a report that the Ustalav casters are "not challenging" unless you don't kill them first (of all others) in a group, urgent enough?

Show me the proper urgency. You know, the kind that got attention and results after complaints that some groups were killing players at banks or crafting stations.

I wonder how many groups did that, even though it was pretty clear that it was not intended (by GW) that it should be so easy to do.

Mbando, I've thought about making my way up to OZ to try gathering for mobile resource nodes, but you don't seem to have enough players to make it worth the trip. :(

Except when you try to do something coordinated. We seem to have been there (and victorious) pretty much every time you have tried. Just Lucky Ducks I guess....

What is the big deal? You assisted at a failed attempt at our towers. We came south to return the favor. You were not there. That is not anyone's fault but your own. We know that at the very least, one of AGC was on while this happened. This is less than a month into these activities. I am sure that towers will change hands (on all sides) many times. No one over here feels invincible. We aren't going to sit by when you attack our towers, our mobile resource nodes, or the same to any of our friends. We are not going to sit still when you kill crafters of any company or settlement (near us) in player towns. We are always ready when our friends want to do a joint operation or they need some extra help.

I noticed that your groups have a PVP window that is set for when most people are at work. That is a smart move, although not very courageous.

Our PVP window is generally set for prime time. Just not on days when we have schedualed meetings during that time. One of your close allies moves thier window often. I have not watched yours at all yet. Before AGC joined you, I had very little interest in Aragon's window.

We did not lose a single tower we tried to defend. InVigil did not capture a single tower that was defended. I hope they are not feeling like they are some kind of PvP Giants for capturing unoccupied towers.

The best thing is that we don't need to feel like or be PVP giants. Things have just worked out for us those times. Isn't that funny? AmIwrong? :) We have very few experienced PVPers ourselves. We are in T1 gear. Just as was pointed out (by your guys) last time we defended our towers.

Despite your spin on this, I believe that most people can see how things are shaping up. You like PVP, or so some of you claim. When you win, some of you talk smack. It is starting to look like what you really want is just to win. There is a long, chaotic war ahead of us. A little smack talk is pretty harmless.

Smooth sailing Bonny and good fortune wherever you land. Thanks for your perspective and livening things up as you did.

I disagree. I think this is a high priority, but for me a company/settlement bank is top priority.

I have to agree. It is maddeningly tedious coordinating exchanges between members to get them what they need in a timely manner,

We are an actual settlement now. Many thanks to delightful Bonny!

Companies, small groups and goodly individuals: contact me, or go HERE, to discuss joining a great community that is growing almost daily.

Very interested in Companies that want to run thier own Point of Interest in our close vicinity. Join up. Take a few towers. When the war ends, build your dream spot in cooperation with, and under the protection of, Ozem's Vigil!

It is sooo awesome to finally be in EE! :)

I would be surprised if anyone in Pax bothered to respond to your useless drivel at all. So, be as sure about that as you like.

Activity has fallen off accross the board for everyone as Alpha has dragged on. Some may have left for good or for a long time. What does that have to do with you needing a new hobby or some counseling for your personal issues?

I still have 4 months free play to see what they can do. I am certainly not going to throw it away because of your endless rants and doom speak.

You have no reason to be here, doing this, except that you have some pain inside that you are milking and using to make yourself feel good. It is only making you come accross as the type of person that (it used to seem) you were not fond of.

It is only a game. It will succeed or fail because of the choices of the developers. Don't approve of how it is going? Why do you care to waste your time here, then?

Are you trying to save us from using our free months or save new people from coming in? How noble! Except that a good deal of what you write here is distorted and untrue. It is just not how you want it done or in the order that you want it done.

Please move on. You are boring me.

No Andius. It has gotten to the point that you are acting trollish. You have divested yourself of participating in this game and yet you are back here being derisve about it and the people that choose to play it.

We know and accept that it is not a finished product and still choose to play. That is our choice. One that you clearly don't think we should have. You are accomplishing nothing here beyond coming across as a Trollish A~$$#~+.

You don't have the tools to be able to accept anyone else feeling or doing anything other than the way that you think is best. That IS a sign of some deep problems. I hope that you can get some help some day, when you finally realize and accept that you need it.

The real trick here is getting the people with the proper skills hooked up with the proper recipes.

This is not easy with only a small fraction of each group playing Alpha. It requires coordination and cooperation.

There was a statement from The Dancey in chat some days ago. It was that they are going to fix length and the items showing that there are no sales for. Admittedly "ASAP" can really mean anything, but there is hope.

Oink!

why is it that when I drag a class feature (necromancer) into the class feature slot on the equip menu it wont go in? Same with the mage feat in its outlined slot wont go in. Why is this?

It's a bug. If you drag it in and close-open paper doll again, it should show as slotted.

I'd put players on the trailers. Even the worst looking of us look better than our characters. ;-)

I like all the concepts the players are suggesting you show, but the graphics at this point are soooo primitive and 1994 looking I'm afraid you'll scare people away.

1994 huh? Here is an example of graphics in 1996.

Here is an example of graphics in 2004.

I believe that most of us have forgotten what graphics were like back then. Our fondness for those old school games clouds our judgement.

Pathfinder Online's graphics are light years ahead of those and they will only get better.

Edit: Might be nice if I had linked them in the correct order. ;)

It is pretty clear that MVP or bare bones or whatever you want to call it was overestimated by many people, It simply is pretty much how it was described that it would be.

I fully admit that I thought that features like the auction house, banking, combat (PVP), company/settlement ui, etc... would be a bit more polished (easier to use), when added. That was not promised, though, was it? We were told that things would be there and that they would be improved through time with iterations. My expectations were not realistic there.

I think that there are some people (obviously) that can't or won't be able to match reality with thier expectations. They will leave for awhile or forever. I don't believe that most won't give it another try if and when things improve more to thier own idea of MVP. Nothing wrong with that. It is sad that some of those people need to stab the game in the heart with comments on the way out. Petty really, considering that it is thier own expectations that are not matching the descriptions that we have been dealing with for so long.

All of the forum debate, the drama, the arguing, the ideas.... The building of organizations, the back room dealings. The speculation and the predictions..... All thrown away because the game is developing how and at the pace (nearly) as was forcast, but not fast enough or in the order wanted. Just a loss of patience, right when things are starting to happen.

Everything here, both player and GW, was built from scratch. If it comes into the game a lesser version than anticipated, we will build it back up. Just takes time and effort. That takes patience. Some are willing and some aren't. "Good luck in your quest, fellow gamers. I hope that you find what you really want."

I am certainly not going to give up because some of my expectations were more than I am seeing or than they were described to be. I will give them the time they need. Things get better at a fair pace. That is what matters to me.

Careful Cal. You are starting to rank up there with "Players that do useful stuff around here."

;)

I like the new Reputation penalty amounts. It means that if (to bring out an old example) a gathering character or two owned by hostile force can be removed outside of a feud without difficulty, but it does stop anyone going full murderhobo.

One kill should not amount to multiple days of exile. In my mind, reputation exists to stop murderhobos, not the ability to engage in non-consensual pvp entirely.

Personally, I am fine with it. Far easier to defend your territory this way. I am just not sure that the greater (outside waiting for EE) community will appreciate it the same.

Need a middle ground between those that don't like PVP and those that love it. This seems negligable and too close to full open, nonconsequential. Willing to see how it works out, though. :)

Regarding the new reputation matter.

It is too lax. It pretty much makes the consequences for random killing a matter of a few hours (or less) discomfort.

It is not a good idea to go into EE this way.

Just casually browsing here. My take on this little "micro drama in the making" was that Nihimon was being friendly in a kind of "hey, long time no see" way.

Clearly, Steelwing, you have the right of it. Thanks for opening my eyes.

I have a singular selfish wish that this thread be redirected to a General Paizo forum for discussing "Non Paizo" supported games. It would fit nicely there.

Not because I feel that LIF is a threat. That concern died when I read reviews, comments, and rants by those playing LIF on a few forums.

I do feel that it is a desperate attempt to "force" GW into the "Best Design Course" according to "The Correct Schedule", as layed down by "The Ultimate Authorities in MMO Gaming", who happen to have learned at a young age that they are "Always Right".

<Still Laughing at Youth>

@ Bob Settles

A small suggestion coming at the bottom of this. The population is limited right now. The escalations are out of control. While it is true that you can work and move around/through them, it would be nice if smaller groups or solo players could make an impact.

Suggestion: Kill the timers for the time being. Let us clear up some of these puppies and have a sense that there is something that we can do to affect the world in the alpha.

Huh, I thought my elf was pretty. ALL races hit on him every time they see him.

@ Andius

If LIF is giving you what you want and PfO is not, I am curious why you are still even here? Do you really think that your method of criticism is going to have an impact? Is it your mission to damage PfO because it is not proceeding in the exact way that YOU want? If so, how sad!

In reality it is going in the way that you want. It is just taking longer than you like.

From reading your posts, it looks (to me) like, as usual from your long history here, that your way is the only acceptable way to proceed. Anything different than your way is incorrect and doomed to failure. Surely you are not so full of yourself that you believe that?

Every single one of us that are sticking out the alpha are trying to help make the game better. We are tired. We are none of us happy with the state of the bugs. We are none of us (or very few) happy with the pace of improvement and fixes. Some are taking breaks until things improve. Some are moving on and that is just fine. You seem to be stuck in a limbo hell of anger, unfulfilled expectations, and bitter feelings. You would do yourself good to step back for a bit and get back to the guy that wrote all the neat stuff for the kickstarter. That was a neat guy. That guy, I am not seeing for some time.

If you are done with this game, move on. If you want to help and be Constructive, get your ass in there and DO some stuff and post results. Look at what is in game. Tell GW what you think in a constructive manner. You have some great points and some valid ideas. They are lost in venom. Don't expect immediate results. There is much to fix here and it takes time. You just can't expect something that someone else is building to be built according to your schedule and your desires of implementation. You do not have a copy of their plans. If those plans do not match your plans, well that is tough. The end result, of the plans, are the same as they were at the start of this. You just have no patience.

The only difference is that we are patient. Reading the reviews for LIF, you can easily see that they have thier negative crowd too. They have their unhappy crowd. They have their crowd that complain about censorship of opinion. At least here (so far) you get to complain that you are not directing the game's direction and that your ideas for priorities are not being duly implemented.

Then again, your future livelihood is not tied into this venture, is it?

I have tried, before, to help you see that this approach of yours is flawed. It really is flawed if improving the game to a state that you want is your goal. If that isn't your goal, then why are you still here? Put your accounts up for sale and get out. You will feel better. If you want to turn things around and help make the game better and what you want, then drop this style of commenting. It isn't working.

Lee has stated in the GW forums that they have revisited the Rep calculations. I'm assuming it just hasn't made it in to a build yet.

I do think that is steep, but I also don't mind. If it weren't a staged test, I would have been killing an innocent +7500 rep player. The problem that I see here is that there is a floor in the basement.

There should at least be an increasing down time for more kills while you are at -7500. There is nothing to lose otherwise. A few more hours of rampage so that I can kill many more, then an hour or so before I begin recouping.

It is alpha! I don't expect things to work right yet. I like that they recognize our input and look at things that need adjusting. Sometimes I know that I lose sight of those things when I am gripe-ing about random character displacement or lost items or even screwed up reputation systems. They are all experimental and will take just what we are doing here, to get right. :)

I love just about everything behind the escalation concept. I am really looking forward to seeing where you take it.

There is a concern (probably just my own) that they may occur too often and build too fast to reasonably deal with. It almost seems that they will be a full time occupation, if we are talking about 6+ hours for a single party to knock one out. That is a lot of time to get many people coordinated and participating. Even if it is a round robin thing with different parties taking over. How many settlements (even fairly large comparative to others) will have that much time and personnel available and still get other things done?

Concering Proxima's suggestion, do escalations actually strengthen after 100% is reached? There is that first number (sometimes as high as 50,000). I have read Bob suggesting that you need to get that number down to 500. I am unclear on how that all works.

After a desynch of 20 hexes one day, I did totally kill an ecalation that I ran across (on the way back). It was only (I think) at 5%. I did it solo with one quest finished and just killing mobs. It dropped at a decent rate with each cluster killed. Took .... less than a hour, if I remember right. No Bosses spawned.

Back to my own comments:

I see (from Cal and Mbando's) posts, two common denominators.

1). They were playing clerics.

2). (I may have read this wrong) They were attacking when they couldn't always see what they were targeting. Correct me if this is in error.

This might be why I did not see a rep loss. I tended not to shoot until I could pivot or move to see what I was shooting (not always, but was usual SOP for me). That may be why I feel that the treasure haul was less than when solo. Maybe I was not making as many direct killing blows. Is that a factor in loot drops when parties? I definately felt like I was drawing the attention of many "Heroes" and "Champions". Not all, but definately my share. :)

Even if the "unseen target" attacking is a factor, there has to be a way for the tab system to differentiate hostiles from friendlies. Auto targeting may have been a factor too. There are many great suggestions for possible fixes. I am sure that the whole thing is complicated, but it is pretty important.

As far as I can tell, the end result should be that if you are "non hostile", there should be no way to accidentally target another "non hostile" and so lose Rep. Except perhaps in the case of AoE and splash. That does not appear to be a factor in the case of Mbando or Cal's experiences.

Love that things are getting addressed. That is all we can expect. That they recognize when shown something, put it in The List, and address at the best pace possible.

Builds confidence.

I wasn't even sure that I had shieldmate until today.

There is something happening in The North this weekend.

In addition, there will be a fellow named Apothos about with lots of great recipes for starving refiners and crafters. Come for those alone if you wish.

Available while supplies last....

Interesting. There is in my memory (possibly faulty) something that Ryan posted. He either flat out wrote or suggested (possibly my incorrect impression) that the goal would be for a minimal feature, pretty much bug free EE, that would be developed as EE progressed.

As I think about it, I have a hard time believing that my memory is sound on that. I don't think that Ryan would write such a thing. Yet the "impression" of a post somewhere, remains.

@ Nihimon

Well because you brought up an earlier post of mine. You do like to do that sort of thing. I don't understand why you would do that, unless it was to make some type of point?

Here is a thought. Was that a mis parse of quote markers and you were not quoting something I had written? Cause that would be just Krazy funny!

All I was trying to do was back up the general gist of Xeen's post. I agreed with it, as I understood it, when I read it.

No one expects there to not be minor bugs. When a game is selling itself on features and those features have major problems, that is not good. How can they be made good if they are not addressed and improved?

If anyone believes that some selling won't need to be done to get to desired EE population, I don't know what else to do there.

It's a fallacy to assume that bugs will get fixed faster if everyone else stops working on content.

Expecting the game to be "bug free" (whether you're talking about new content being released bug free, or talking about all development on new content being stopped while every last bug gets fixed) is unreasonable.

Here, like above, I do not quite see what you are shooting for. You used one of my quotes from earlier to make a point when it was you who misunderstood the original context and meaning. Nothing that I wrote (that you dug up) contradicts anything that I wrote today.

There probably are contradictory things somewhere. I have been up and down about going into EE. My firm position now is to Fix What's Broken or otherwise nearly useless. If there is a delay for EE, use it that way first. If you need more time to add more content (for EE) after that. Go for it. Just don't pile more poor features on top of poor features.

Now, here we are, with you suggesting that some are suggesting everything goes on hold until each bit of new content is tested by alpha players. That is not what is being suggested. They are a good team. I am sure that they can work on future content while we test released content. I am sure that they can do both in whatever proportions that work best.

They don't need to go back and fix anything until we find that it doesn't work, is a bottleneck, or is just too hard to understand or use. When problems become clear, real effort should be focused on correcting them, IMO.

I don't understand the expectation that Early Enrollment should be as stable as a fully released, big-budget MMO with a large staff.

PFO is being built on a budget by a very small team. Early Enrollment is when they're going to be developing - and we're going to be testing - all the features they've been telling us about for the last three years.

I don't think it's a good idea to set the expectation that every new content release in Early Enrollment will be free of bugs.

I can't speak for Xeen but I do read that he is not suggesting that new features be bug free when they are released. Just that things are taken care of each time? before a bunch of new features are thrown in that bring more bugs.

Since GW does have a small team, it might be a good approach. Bugs, difficult/frustrating interfaces, impossible bottlenecks, etc... It might not be a bad idea to get what they do have in-game working right and easier for players to use and/or figure out.

I can't see much sense in leaving time consuming work behind you when the game will always be starving for new features no matter how many they could realistically add. Keep it lean, polished, and working well. Then it will seem more like an attractive work in progress that it is billed as.

Addendum: I should add that I am perfectly ready (myself) to start playing in a persistant enviroment. I am Alpha Burned. I will keep going because I might be able to help someone (cominging in) from my group or any (doesn't matter at this stage). Yet if they are going to delay, I would love for them to use the time to get what is in, working right! :)

I will be away from my desk for about an hour. The blog will go live shortly. Afterwards, when I return, I'll be able to answer questions.

You have saved many pandas with that post.

I think that this NAP will produce a lot of side effects.

For instance, we will see who opts in, opts out, and doesn't participate in the discussion at all. We will see who rules lawyers the agreement, who attempts to skirt it, and who practices the very spirit of the agreement. Finally, we will see some groups true colors when corner cases arise.

This NAP, while attempting to set a minimum par at which all settlements can play at and grow, will also set the political stage for after the Great Catastrophe.

I agree. It can be very enlightening to see who does what with such a document. It can be instructive, beyond PMs and voice chat, to see who you might want to form larger agreements with in the future.

So look around this and the alpha forum. It would be great to delay a few weeks and get some more features.

Not as great as it would be to delay a few weeks and focus fire on fixing the features and mechanics that are in-game now. Fix the base before you build too high vertically.

Do potions (or consumables) all work yet? Do the tokens all work? Can you read all the tool tips? Is it too hard to get that 1 point of an ability score in most roles (not just adventure)? Is the Company and Settlement system good enough to not cause frustration? How about the auction house?

Are desync issues still happening? I thought that they were fixed. Tonight it has started for me again.

It is alpha. I am cool with these things as long as they are getting worked on before new features that add new problems.

Never leave an enemy (bug or poorly working feature) behind you.

I find that an arrow in the eye kills them pretty quick.

Send a spy to Russia. LIF has basic formation combat working, I believe.

Here is something. When I enter a letter in the search box and I click the little symbol top left of box, I get nada. If, instead I put my letter in and just hit keyboard "enter", it works fine.

As I hinted at, I don't think that the game will reach an agreeable lvl of what is MVP for everyone within 6 months. My biggest fear is that interest in participating in Alpha declines to the point that everyone finds and settles for another game. If things can be persistent, there is a reason to play. Establish a basic real economy that will drive all other things.

I am not sure how much influence we have over GW's agenda, but pushing for more features that add more bugs and wierdness does not seem like a good plan, IMO. Fix what we have. Get it working. Even get it more user friendly. I'll bet that is a tall order for a month's work, alone.

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:

...we're the only one's with so much opportunity to live in intersting times.

I remember we were admiring Tavernhold during the Land Rush for their choice of a home with four Badlands, one Monster, and one Home touching them. We assumed they wanted to make sure there'd be plenty of tired, thirsty adventurers wanting to sample the wares.

Samples? Uhmm... is there a limit to samples?

Though I will commend you all for your positivity, you really are some easily satisfied people I must say! But why on Earth would you want to play this game without at least some of those things Cheatle mentioned (especially player looting)?

I dunno, it just sounds, not fun? And do you not see it as unfair advantage, if EE really is final, to the players that start after EE? We will be starting in easy, "carebear land" whilst when they start player looting, ammo, etc will surely be included. Something just seems off about that...

Without player looting? Because I know that it will follow in relatively short order. I don't expect everyone to agree on what things are absolutely mandatory to start persistence.

What I don't want to see is too much energy spent on features that can wait, when there are some pretty serious things need fixing (already) in what we do have. I don't believe that even an extra month (past the 30th) is realistic to address current bugs, add new features, and deal with all those new bugs.

Fix what is in now, the right way. Get the persistance happening so that interest does not wane. Add the features as we go. Fix new bugs/problems. Repeat.

Have to agree that some of those features can be done without for the start of EE. Weren't we still expecting them to be missing for EE a few months ago? Why do we have to have them now?

Get the client and server stable and persistant. Fix the current problems and get this ship underway. We will build the rest at sea (as someone said somewhere). :)

More features mean more bugs. Fix this first. Let's see what play looks like October 29th.

I'm ready to start playing with a persistent character today. It's hard to stay motivated for weeks on end with a character that's going to vanish soon.

I'm pretty confident that by the time I need to spend any more money, the game will be an MVP that I'm willing to pay for.

I am pretty much ready too. I would like to experience some persistence. It is most likely that another month or two will not make enough difference for the crowd out there to change their opinions. Most of what I need is in.

Haters gonna hate.

Players really love you when thier playing.