Goblin Squad Member
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Targeting, auction houses, husks, resource distribution, what constitutes ganking, nothing else matters if people log in for a few hours see a barren world with no one to interact with and never come back.
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Well, that didn't take long. Maybe I'll expand a little.
The game in it's current state is REALLY REALLY boring as a solo game. The first time I played EVE I quit after a few weeks because running missions and dodging low sec death became boring, and there's even less to do in the current game world.
On the other hand, ask any person that has played in the last two months what their most fun moments were and 98/100 of them will say when players gathered and stacked 14 high, waged a 12-person skirmish for a tower, battled the escalation with purple NPCs, or some big team event like that.
For anyone not already a part of the handful of large organizations, in-game chat is the only way they have to connect with anyone else. Right now hex chat might get three people talking at a time on the best day.
Recruitment Channel - I know Ryan has a personal vendetta against global channels (and Help should definitely be limited to help), but we NEED a global recruitment channel. The organized player groups need to be able to reach every new player whatever hex they wander into. Every new player needs to interact with different companies to spot one that feels like the best fit. Some day far in the future it might get shades of Barrens chat which also removes real communication and game community, but losing a conversation at the hex border or limited to five other people in a party is vastly oversteering in the opposite direction to the same results. Today reaching players wherever they are is vital for growing groups and seeding the game world like we're supposed to be doing.
Settlement Channel - Ask anyone in any settlement, we need it right now.
Last thing is the actual typing, we should be able to see all the channels and whispers like Local currently does, but chat in a specific one until we manually change to another i.e. everything we type is in settlement chat until we /h to hex for a quick comment then /s back to settlement.
Most people agree GW is making great progress in art, coding, design, new features etc. but don't kid yourselves. Players connecting to other players is the only thing that brings any of us back to any multiplayer game and right now when Pathfinder Online is being actively judged and talked about we don't have the tools to do that most fundamental part of an MMO.
pfft
settlement chat
not very realisitic
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Goblin Squad Member
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I agree, just because we are chatting in a certain channel should not make us miss anything that is said in another channel. This is 101 MMO-communications but I think they just did not get around to it yet. Need to be done asap.
There is an initiative for an IRC channel, really low treshold, but hard to get off the ground. I agree that certainly in this stage of the game, a Global channel would help. In the future, this channel should be replaced by the Settlement channels, see below.
With Settlement chat, I take it you mean a channel restricted to people that belong to the same settlement, but not restricted in where you are in the world? I agree about this too, better have this in game then people fiddling with Teamspeak or mumble or IRC for this. I am pretty sure this is on the agenda though.
Same for Company chat.
Good points. I did connect/talk with people through the global IRC for a few days, but already there are less people online and the channel is becoming quiet. Will bump that IRC thread again.
At Kobold: I think settlement chat is a good example of fun before realism. But I am sure you are just being a Kobold here. :) Did you find refuge in Tavernhold?
Did we receive our Awards of "Shortest time of being on a Settlement council" already?
They saw me coming. Still trying to find a way in.
I really do agree with this thread, though. Communication needs to be a huge priority. And really, how hard can it be compared to all the crazy stuff the Goblinworks crowd has to handle every day?
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Please Goblinworks, go play FF XXI or XIV, check out Linkshells and take a few pages from the SE book. I've played a dozen MMO's and none of them have ever come close to the simple and effective communication channels that the Linkshell can provide.
Additionally, it would/could add another useful Consumable item to the game to help fuel the economy. Particualarly I think Alchemist could use some help as nobody is looking at crafting and says "Oh wow, Alchemist can make a bunch of awesome useful stuff."
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Goblin Squad Member
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Funny, I was just coming here to post something similar! Great minds, etc.
I FINALLY got my husband and two of our friends to log in yesterday, and we played for several hours. Chat is deeply, deeply frustrating as it stands; we stuck to in-game chat for this outing but will be using Skype for party chat from now on.
Party: Usable. I ended up making the Party chat window my default, as we started in three different, widely spaced starting towns (Ossian's Crossing, Kindleburn, and two of us in Rathglen) and spent much of our play time running around to meet up, ultimately at Hammerfall. However, I would really like the option to change text box opacity, text color, and text size.
Local: Potentially useful, but the ONLY time I saw any activity in it was in Emerald Lodge, and I think that's because I mistakenly typed something meant for party chat in local instead. Nothing terrible - just directions to follow Brigheibh - but it was the first time I saw anyone else chatting in it . At any rate, glad to see someone using it, but the channel was a ghost town other than that.
Help: Very helpful! In the absence of a Global channel, though, that is what this will become, human nature being what it is.
I would DEARLY love a global recruitment channel, and a settlement channel (still need to officially join my settlement...), and potentially an alliance channel (one for each nation/alliance), or the ability to make an ad hoc one. We had a version of that last one as far back as DAoC, although membership was restricted (I think) to guild officers, and it made alliance-wide coordination and communication easier.
And Proxima is spot on re: continuing to chat in one channel until we manually change to a different one. I don't exactly regret mistakenly typing my party directions in settlement chat yesterday - somebody else said something settlement chat after I did that! - but had the party been in multiple hexes I'd have had to stop, manually switch over, and retupe. Please let us default to our last channel selection until we manually change it, regardless of which chat tab is open.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Deianira
Thanks for visiting Emerald Lodge. The only way I manage to keep an eye on our settlement chat is that you talked to my wife's character. She isn't playing much (yet) so I have her open at the bank as our bankbot and to watch what is happening / greeting people coming to us.
But I wouldn't have talked to you without this second account. And often enough I miss it.
The two goblin shamans seemed to be gone when I ventured back to the shrine. So I guess you cleaned them from the shrine. Thanks - was bad when you got revived straight in a group of shamans and got stunned before even able to run.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Glad we could help! As there were four of us by then, the goblins weren't as much of a problem - although we still lost Ganthe in the fight - but I know exactly what you mean. I did my share of respawning in a camp on the run from Ossian's Crossing. (Brigheibh, the lucky dog, started from Kindleburn and had a much shorter and easier trip.)
Good idea on using your wife's account that way. As I'm likely to be online more than Brigheibh I'll do the same.
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Goblin Squad Member
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+1
This is one of TEO's top priority changes we think should be implemented ASAP ahead of everything else.
A few of the different chats we discussed were:
World Chat - We wanted it brought back, there isn't enough people playing yet to really remove this, and it makes it easier for various groups across the map to get in touch with each other.
Recruitment - A place where anyone can go to ask questions about certain groups, and for spammers to post recruitment messages. This filters this type of spam/discussion out of all other channel, and gives a clear indicator where to go to find people in the game.
Company Chat - This is a no brainer, sometimes people just don't want to get on voice comms, or they can't at the moment, or they don't have a head set, or so on and so forth. Some people just want a place to keep in touch with other players.
Settlement Chat - Just like Company, but expanded to the whole settlement, also a potentially early warning system chat for those of the entire settlement.
Something else we discussed that could be interesting, in lieu of a World Chat could be a Regional Chat, if you take a look at Harad's map you can see the regions separated out, could be interesting.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Cheatle
Yes, those would the exact channels that I would propose, where Global chat could be taken down once it becomes too crowded. Settlement chat should be Global for any player that is a member of that Settlement (also free members that are not in a Company when this is implemented).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thank you Proxima for bringing this up and the fact is that for a new player the only chat channel is Help. I convinced a friend to finally sign-in. He was not impressed with the "broken chat system" .. his words.
Add to this that many of the larger guilds/settlements are using 3rd party voicechat and a new player has no way to connect in-game. If one of the design goals was that anything that can be done external will be provided internal to minimize advantages, does this include chat/voicechat? Or perhaps I mis-read that intent?
Finally, I ran across 40+ hexes yesterday and saw 3 other players outside of settlements. Three ... over the course of 8 hours. The only way I knew there were others online is the help channel. My friend has had a similar experience so far. I advised applying to a company as that does help but there are many aspects to this game in its current state that are frustrating .. a frustrating chat system isn't helping.
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I would add my vote for returning a Global Chat (and removing it again when it actually gets too busy and/or better in-game communication is set up).
Those of us not affiliated with the couple of large groups using 3rd party communication solutions are playing in a very, very quiet (too quiet) game world. We use Help Chat as global anyway (80% of which still soundly falls into the Help category). In the non-GM-policed hours, it actually feels like a larger community again.
When it gets too busy in chat channels, the players will let you know. When I see more than the same 4 players (and 6 alts) in my 30 hex roaming area, maybe Hex and Local will work for area communication. By then, though, I would expect the chat system will have had a total re-work anyway.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The lack of company/settlement chat is more or less the only thing that'll make me fail to renew my sub in a few months time. Most everything else I can deal with, but the lack of any persistent chat channels is killing me.
As an off-TZ player, the ability to find out if anyone else is online and easily talk to them is absolutely paramount for me to have any sense of community, and is cornerstone to the game itself. The standard mandatory guild (company) and alliance (settlement) chats are probably the easiest way to achieve this basic need.
In terms of priority, work on the AH is underway, lets get that done. Shortly followed by chat, please.
Custom chat channels, even insecure ones, would be a bonus. I do like Linkshells, and the ability to set up a LS for Oceanic players would be a massive boon - but I can live without/wait for that.
I gather you need to get a special item to unlock it?
A certain group solved that problem long ago...
It *really* doesn't only work for just large settlements, and should actually be easier for smaller settlements. That being said, I'm not saying it's by any means a permanent solution, but rather that I personally don't think banks are a higher priority than chat, for example.
It *does* rely on trusted users, and you just pointed out the biggest flaw. That being said...it's comparably little different from the highest-ranking officers having access to an entire company/settlement bank.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It *does* rely on trusted users, and you just pointed out the biggest flaw. That being said...it's comparably little different from the highest-ranking officers having access to an entire company/settlement bank.
I hope I never see here the fallout if it goes wrong because someone either infiltrated it or someone leaves in disagreement with the settlement.
You could call any such action griefing but it would likely be too late.
I've been contemplating opening up one of my accounts as abank but decided against it. There are too many players that would deserve to have access but that I hardly know yet.
Don't get me wrong - it is great it works for you. But it isn't a solution for everyone.
I don't see how you plan to solve the security issue of centralizing resources, whether it's on an account or a settlement bank. A bank *would* have a log (hopefully) that would prevent secret embezzlement, but that wouldn't stop any of the highest ranking officers from taking everything when they leave, should they choose. It's a problem that happens in basically every MMO, and is more an inherent problem with centralization than a problem with the systems used to centralize. Even if only one person, say the settlement leader, had access to the whole bank, that's still a person that won't necessarily be with your group forever.
That being said, it's true it isn't a solution for everyone, and doesn't obviate the need for banks, but for me *personally* (stressed it this time), the fact that we can form a system mechanically similar to a bank makes it a slightly lower priority than something like global chat, which I believe has a direct impact on game health. Quality of life changes are great, but my highest priority for development would be anything that can attract and keep new players.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Particualarly I think Alchemist could use some help as nobody is looking at crafting and says "Oh wow, Alchemist can make a bunch of awesome useful stuff."
Apologies for potentially derailing the thread, but they can.
Speed potion - 6 rounds of Quickened at a time, without the need to equip a staff or a focus.
Fire/Ice/Thunder/Acid - Ranged attack capability for a character with two sets of melee weapons.
Ward Gel, etc. - Useful against shamans, bombers, and PC wizards.
Cure Potions and Bloodblock - Short term self-healing without the need to equip a focus.
Edit: I agree that improved chat channels and shared banking (between characters on the same account, if nothing else) are high priorities.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't see how you plan to solve the security issue of centralizing resources, whether it's on an account or a settlement bank. A bank *would* have a log (hopefully) that would prevent secret embezzlement, but that wouldn't stop any of the highest ranking officers from taking everything when they leave, should they choose. It's a problem that happens in basically every MMO, and is more an inherent problem with centralization than a problem with the systems used to centralize. Even if only one person, say the settlement leader, had access to the whole bank, that's still a person that won't necessarily be with your group forever.
That being said, it's true it isn't a solution for everyone, and doesn't obviate the need for banks, but for me *personally* (stressed it this time), the fact that we can form a system mechanically similar to a bank makes it a slightly lower priority than something like global chat, which I believe has a direct impact on game health. Quality of life changes are great, but my highest priority for development would be anything that can attract and keep new players.
You are seriously arguing that giving someone access to your account is the same as a shared bank?
I do not think global chat is more important. There are plenty of options that are free outside of the game to communicate as well and doesn't put anyone's entire account at risk to do it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I agree that chat options need love ASAP. I would think they are far easier to get going than a shared bank as that would need to add in UI elements that are not currently in the game.
I don't see that it should be hard to add 2 tabs to the chat frame. Or heck roll Hex into Local (hex isn't that much bigger than local anyway) and just add one tab.
I don't see how you plan to solve the security issue of centralizing resources, whether it's on an account or a settlement bank. A bank *would* have a log (hopefully) that would prevent secret embezzlement, but that wouldn't stop any of the highest ranking officers from taking everything when they leave, should they choose. It's a problem that happens in basically every MMO, and is more an inherent problem with centralization than a problem with the systems used to centralize. Even if only one person, say the settlement leader, had access to the whole bank, that's still a person that won't necessarily be with your group forever.
That being said, it's true it isn't a solution for everyone, and doesn't obviate the need for banks, but for me *personally* (stressed it this time), the fact that we can form a system mechanically similar to a bank makes it a slightly lower priority than something like global chat, which I believe has a direct impact on game health. Quality of life changes are great, but my highest priority for development would be anything that can attract and keep new players.
You are seriously arguing that giving someone access to your account is the same as a shared bank?
I do not think global chat is more important. There are plenty of options that are free outside of the game to communicate as well and doesn't put anyone's entire account at risk to do it.
That's a different form of security risk, and actually IS inherent to this particular form of centralization. It's a totally valid criticism, but again I'd point out that I'm not proposing everyone use the same system, but rather explaining why my personal priority is the way it is.
That being said, global chat isn't really for the players already in groups and actively playing - it's for contacting new players and recruiting them, to help them realize this game actually has people playing and to more effectively help them. In those regards any form of out-of-game communication utterly fails to produce.
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Goblin Squad Member
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the fact that we can form a system mechanically similar to a bank
The longer it goes on, and the larger those "banks" become, the greater the mechanical difference will be between emptying everything of value from a real company bank and changing the password on an account.
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Goblin Squad Member
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the fact that we can form a system mechanically similar to a bankThe longer it goes on, and the larger those "banks" become, the greater the mechanical difference will be between emptying everything of value from a real company bank and changing the password on an account.
And those very generous and trusting people would get their character back as well, if they so wish to do something with them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't see how you plan to solve the security issue of centralizing resources, whether it's on an account or a settlement bank.
The reason I keep pushing for Buy Orders (with Price Discrimination for Allies) on the Auction House is because that is the best solution to the problem. It allows folks to conduct trades without requiring both parties to be on at the same time, and it has a built-in system (prices) to avoid exploitation.
I'd love to see Shared Storage, but it comes in a distant second to Buy Orders in the AH.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nihimon I'm cool with that being a replacement if you could post buys for 0c.
What would the point be? When you post an item to the AH the AH will sell that item to the highest Buy Order listed. To fill a "buy for 0" you would have to fill every other listed order for that same item first.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am partial to a region based "world chat system"
It just seems like it would be kind of cool.
Back on topic: World Chat Tab, Recruitment Chat Tab, Company Chat Tab, Settlement Chat Tab, Local/Chat/Hex Rolled into one Chat Tab, and finally Help Chat Tab.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Between the shared banking and chat channel arguments, I feel they are both vital. As a software engineer, I think the lower hanging fruit is the chat channel. I believe, bearing in mind I have never seen any of the code, that chat channels should be much quicker and easier to modify or implement, thus providing for a very good short term win.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Back on topic: World Chat Tab, Recruitment Chat Tab, Company Chat Tab, Settlement Chat Tab, Local/Chat/Hex Rolled into one Chat Tab, and finally Help Chat Tab.
I think I understand that Goblinworks wants the UI to be as standardized as possible to cut down on the chore of responding to Customer Service requests when using a heavily modified UI.
I was originally resistant to these static Chat Tabs, but I think I see that having them simplifies the job of Customer Service. So, now, I'd just ask that, in addition to the above, we be allowed to create new Chat Tabs where we can explicitly set which Chat Channels we want to appear. Customer Service will still be able to say "Okay, go to the Local Chat Tab" and be confident they know what should show up there, while the players will also have better control over how they receive notifications.
It would also be great if we could have a second Chat Box on the other side of the Action Bars.