BismuthBronze's page

What would be a good price for breaking a term or condition later on? Should it be an immediate revoking of bonuses, culled relations with the faction & increased DC to reestablish, plus a level of unrest proportional to the offer tier (1d4 for lesser, 1d6 moderate, 1d8 greater offer)?

Should it be 3-strikes you’re out situation, or the punishment depends on whether the broken term was originally a “non-negotiable” vs “negotiable” term, like a small broken promise is a mere slap on the wrist, some unrest, & increased DCs for activities concerning that faction?

Would other factions respond to seeing the terms for allies broken as well?

I don’t plan on being TOO mean to my players (I am compiling their agreements into something they can have access to on the gaming table) BUT it’s nice to have an idea for how, say, the church of Abadar would respond to a missed holiday versus the Church of Pharasma catching wind of Jaethal being elected for Emissary.

It could be simply that nobles care more about being recognized for their lineage rather than taking on the traditional title of Aldori. For example, House Lebeda is said to "epitimize Rostland" & "loves sword fighting", which seems very Aldori-coded, but you don't see any Lebedas carrying around the Aldori name. In-fact, I'd wager a noble taking on a hyphenated name like "Sir John Lebeda-Aldori" would still be the talk of the nation within gossiping circles.

It could also be a political survival tactic: Aldori IS the name of Rostland's original leader. If a member of the Houses bore his name, they'd most likely lose the privilege of being recognized by the ruling Surtovans. Afterall, the Aldori swordsmen HATE the Surtovans.

It's also worth noting that Maegar's sword is particularly special to him. In the "appearance" portion of his Influence stat-block, it's described as having his family's Crest: 4 hatchets arranged in a circle, located on his pommel guard.
How true Aldori Swordsmen see these nobles that walk the walk but don't talk the talk is up to you, but personally I'd see them as posers.

I've read a LOT of game dialogue, too much in fact, but I believe I have a better understanding of Jaethal's whole shtick. The main gist of Jaethal (heh) is that her past is catching up with her, & she has to decide between continuing down the path of Urgothoa & embrace being undead or reject it & return to humanity. Feel free to use my ideas or critique:

The 1st part I'd recommend is ensuring that you don't reveal too much of her story too quickly. Right away, under her Resistances in her Influence Statblock, we know that she's sensitive about 1: Being recognized as Undead & 2: Being recognized as being from Kyonin. While a high enough skill check is all it takes to learn about her "condition", that doesn't mean she owes anyone an explanation as to HOW she became what she is. Not right away, at least. Lean into that.

When & what info is learned is vital to playing her out properly. High enough influence scores should result in her sharing that she used to run in politics, then admitting where she's from, & then that she's on the run for "choices" she made in a past life, but other than that, she remains closed off about the "WHY".

It isn't until the events of Elven Diplomats after the renovation of the Forgotten Keep that representatives from Kyonin learn once more that she's "alive" & well. How this plays out I'm still weighing ideas. 1 is these diplomats immediately demand for her to be handed over, the cat gets let out of the bag & the party learns that she's murdered several court members to become what she is today, & so the party gets put in an awkward pickle. I'm still workshopping it.

The 2nd pickle is addressing her 2 paths. The way the videogame does this is she gets to become more powerful by sacrificing her daughter (who's conveniently in-town, & whom Jaethal is utterly disappointed in for various reasons) or choose to reject Urgathoa. It isn't explicitly clear what Urgothoa wants her to become, but thankfully we have a likely statblock for that: A child of Urgathoa! What's probably the oddest twist it that the good path, her rejecting this power, results in Jaethal EXPLODING, only to be reborn as an inquisitor for Pharasma during the final hours of the game in Nyrissa's House at the Edge of Time. That is...a choice in storytelling. What she becomes isn't stated but I think it's implied a duskwalker. I don't personally like having a companion disappear for a portion of the campaign, but there's something to having Jaethal redeemed by Pharasma, with some involvment of jaethal's daughter. So let's backtrack a bit.
Nintendogeek01 brought up the Bog mummies at HT13. The description mentions that they were previously Urgathoa priests that had plans to establish a cult in Pitax but fell to infighting. It doesn't mention how FAR they got into establishing a cult. Let's pretend that they got a LITTLE far, that within Pitax is a decades-old ruin with a chamber still humming with unholy divine magic from Urgathoa herself. To leave it there is a safety violation frankly, a place that Priests of Pharasma would want cleansed, & a place that Jaethal would have keen interest in. This would most likely occur during chapter 8, when Party is sneaking around Pitax. An idea for how they'd learn about it is if they get the quest from a local priestess of Pharasma, who just so happens to be Jaethal's daughter. Jaethal would be disappointed that she never went into politics like her mother, & even more insulted that she devotes her life to preventing undead like her mother from forming, but won't let the opportunity to see urgathoa's shrine slip away. From there, the quest would be navigating the temple & escorting the priestess to the alter in order to cleanse it, where there would be a moment when Jaethal weighs her options (following the same choice from the game, but with more bite). Again, still workshopping.
Small aside, the Bog mummies have 3 undead, but there should technically be a 4th body (with knives in his back) in the bog. After combat, this remaining corpse would be the only (relatively) undamaged one suitable for spells like "Talking Corpse" in which he'd lament being stabbed in the back (literally) & never getting that cult in Pitax up & thriving.

I should have mentioned, those 3 events came to mind immediately because I intend on having them come up in my own game. There's A LOT of downtime in this campaign as a result of the kingdom turns each being an in-game month, so I took the liberty of writing down local events likely to occur in the background. The event with houses at each other's throats for example meshes REALLY WELL with the later chapters of the campaign, where it's implied that Brevoy &/or Rostland are too busy with rising tensions to aid you in the war with Pitax & Drelev.
So if you're using the normal timeline, I'd highly recommend keeping an eye for events happening in the background to help flesh out the world.

On the opposite side, I'm starting a new Kingmaker in August. to start the game "today" (4725 AR), other than Gorum's death, what other events should we be aware of/update... Refugees from Kyonin from the Spore War? Rumors of inner sea war floating around... I'd love to hear about what changes would be necessary to set the adventure in 4725 AR

Ah Jeez, where to start.. Welp, within that 15 years I think there's 3 major events in the local vicinity that ought to be addressed:

• 1. 4716AR The Technic League collapses, & Numeria's old king awakens from his drug-coma. Under normal circumstances, Numeria doesn't have a strong role in the story, delegated to background dressing, BUT with Pitax's king's association with Numeria, maybe they now have more bite in the story?
• 
  2. 4718AR The Worldwound finally closes. That means that there isn't a stream of donated soldiers passing through the lake of Mists & Vails anymore. In my own game, I had it so the Surtovans were "donating" soldiers that questioned the crown to Mendev to die in the meat grinder, so without a meatgrinder, there's more dissatisfied soldiers around. Mendev's economy would have gone through a struggle to get back set up, which probably meant an over-reliance on their neighbors across the lake? Lots of directions to take that angle in
• 
  3. 4718AR A political marriage between House Lebeda & Surtova fell apart. Surtova accuses Lebeda for treason, & House Orlovsky sides with Lebada (accusing Surtova of fabricating the story). What happens next isn't written, but the natural course of events I think is House Lodovka siding with Surtova, making a 2v2 civil war (where Garess & Medvyed side is up to interpretation) Either way, Brevoy would have gone through an even more stressful high-tension political era than before.

That's without even addressing the Godsrain! The major parts that stick out to me are what occurs in Numeria & Brevoy respectively:

The land of Numeria referred to the Godsrain as the Second Rain of Stars, which reactivated some long-dormant Androffan technology within the Silver Mount and across the nation. An influx of reactivated androids strained Hajoth Hakados's capacity to accommodate them, and reactivated robots marched in precise but mindless patterns across Numeria, reacting only when attacked.

Would you look at that, it's Irovetti's hometown again. One could argue that MAYBE Pitax is experiencing a wave of Android immigration, which in turn could have resulted in an influx of imported goods & tech. Since He over relied on tech in order to get the crown, he might see this as either a blessing or a curse: More toys for him OR more power in the hands of his citizens. We don't get to see Irovetti's opinions on Androids, so how they mesh with the city is up to you (food for thought).

Four earthquakes and related tsunamis struck the Lake of Mists and Veils in the wake of Gorum's death, raising unrest in Brevoy and led a faction called the Children of Choral to suggest that these were signs of the imminent return of Choral the Conqueror. Another faction, the Brevic Truthseekers, claimed the disasters were signs from deities proving that King-Regent Noleski Surtova was unfit to rule. The Black Tears, a thieves' guild, also took advantage of this new conflict to consolidate their power, but they had not yet chosen a side in the growing conflict

This implies that the civil war I mentioned either didn't pave through, is still going full swing, or ended several years prior, only to be at risk of starting up again. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how these 2 factions wouldn't get along: you can still have Surtova not be worthy of the crown WITH Choral showing up. They don't seem exclusive to eachother. The bit about the Black Tears is interesting though, because in the book they're simply a thorn that pops up now & then, with them 1st being hired by Pitax to attack Jamandi's mansion. NOW, there's opportunity for them to be fleshed out into a larger opponent. Maybe they attack the mansion to halt the Stolen Lands exploration of their OWN fruition, rather than being hired for the job? Why would they want to do that? That'd be fun to explore.

There wasn't a lot to go off of for Drelev, so I went subjective:
There are two different artworks of Hannis Drelev. His portrait for the statblock on 597 looks NOT THAT BAD, & his description states he spent his youth in Brevoy frustrated at the lack of opportunity, & he has the vibes of a man willing to cut corners that culminates in the poor war tactics that lead to him having to hang his tail between his legs & surrender to Pitax & Armag.
And then we have his portrait on page 309. Maybe it's the grimace on his face or the way the artist portrayed the shadows & scar, but I feel like he aged a few years between the 2 photos. His wife on Page 313 isn't flattering either; lots of stress lines, but she's apparantly "a master of the game of social politics" so that's something. His Young mistress, the Daggermark spy, seems young. I'd guess Hannis is in his 40s, his wife in her 50s+ (political marriage), & his mistress in her 20s. Drelev strikes me as a guy who'd suck up to whomever is sitting in the throne, Rogarvia OR Surtova.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find dates or significant events to latch onto in regard to Maegar Varn either. Just that he's the 3rd son to a Brevic Baron, unlikely to inherit a title or holding, which is why he's out in the stolen lands. His father, Androth, is apparently a good friend of Lady Jamandi. His portrait on 251 is sporting salt-&-pepper hair though, so he can't be too young. I hate to say it again, but I think 40s.
Unlike Drelev though, who relies on Soldiers & bodies between him & danger, there's plenty of text that suggests Maegar was still out & about adventuring with his buds, not unlike the PCs. He hung out with a ranger, cleric, Fighter, & a wizard, & gave them all room & board in Varnhold for their help. So in a way, yes Maeger was middle-aged, but also yes, he probably still was doing mercenary work, having a ball with his buds (something I hope I'm still doing well past middle age)

I'm sure you've clocked it already, but to put it down in writing, the Year the charter is given out to players is 4710AR.
The Vanishing occured 4699 AR, with the Surtovans stepping in promptly to fill the empty throne.
 I'm not good with clocking age, but Irovetti picture looks like he's 40-50 years or something. There's tiredness in those eyes.
Castruccio Irovetti has ruled for "over half a decade" according to his statblock on Page 593, BUT on page 334 it states that the Rushlight Festival has been held every year since he claimed the throne, & it's the 5th annual year. He did rise to power relying mostly on Modify Memory, so his subjects' minds might be a bit scrambled admittedly.
334 is a good place for his whole backstory though: we learn that his pops died in one the crusades @Worldwound. It also mentions that his hometown was Hajoth Hakados. HERE it states that after the 2nd crusade, the old route knights took fell, so they started traveling past that very city from that point on. So from the 3rd crusade onwards, Irovetti's dad passed through, had a kid, went off to war, & sent money back to put the kid in school before tragically dying. Let's assume he was in the 3rd crusade: 3rd Crusade ran 4665AR - 4668AR: King Irovetti is therefore 42 to 45 years old.

Thanks for the ideas, happily stealing these!

Here's hoping that there weren't any glaring issues that I overlooked, because I just printed & book-bound the darn thing. The incomplete warfare section wasn't a major concern for me. I'll probably tape over it & use it to consolidate Companion-specific activities/structures. If/when you DO have the Warfare, I'll just make a mini booklet then lol

BismuthBronze wrote:

lot and lot of greatly valuable things

Thanks a lot for your efforts. I think you're bringing us awesomely valuable insights.

Please keep on providing us with your further thoughts on this. I find it extremely useful and motivating in trying to incorporate the Companions in my own players' game.

Aw thanks! I am pleased with my plan for Harrim, but I'll put some more thought into the others & share what I've finalized. At the moment, I'm trying to better understand the Twins, since their conundrum is rather complex. I'm curious to how often others have their personalities switch? Like, it's a fascinating concept, but damn that must be difficult to keep track of.

It's always funny looking at what was changed from Owlcat's to the book. For example, from what I've read the Twins in the game gain the ability to control their switching via a magic mcguffin quest, but in the Companion's Guide, it happens once you reach Influence 8.
There's also these needless fetch quests concerning mischievous NPCs who call themselves "The Sweet Teeth", friends of the twins from their home city who followed them here. I don't think I'd keep them (I prefer minimizing NPCs), but I think the point of them existing is to represent the twins' past following them? The book references their criminal roots having resulted in the death of Kanerah, so I could see Kalikke wanting to put that behind her, especially seeing that she comes to the party wanting to start a "modest academy". It might be something to work off of, but it's deciding what fat to trim off. Especially since their quest should concern more the freeing of their souls from the Forefather.

To add, after reading the comments before mine (I kinda just jumped into an essay without fully reading the original question, sorry);

Harrim's story is... interesting

Having not actually played the game, & instead going over the spark notes, I liked the cut of Harrim's jib. I tweaked his backstory, making him from the vanished Golka Clan instead of down south. One of my players is an embarrassed exile from House Garess, & Harrim's now-poofed clan made a perfect tie-in for his searching for long-gone dwarven ruins. My plan is to keep the vibes of his original storyline: dwarf migrants eager to reclaim their birthright, a fallen clan's overreliance on golems, & a ghost too stubborn to let go of the past. I don't intend to use Harrim at Hargulka's Lair, BUT if they choose to, his Dwarven Lore & their perception should uncover wall carvings with 3 crests that reveal the fort to have sat on a trade route between a river Clan to the South, The Golka Clan to the North, & a mysteriously forgotten clan in the region they're now in. That alone should cement Harrim's interest in the migrants that arrive later, at an undecided time. I'll also drop a broken golem in there with the mysterious Crest as foreshadowing. That's all I got so far for him. The Videogame's use of an adamantine golem is hilarious though; that's getting changed.

For the twins I was thinking maybe tie their fiendish ancestry to "old sharptooth" instead

Wow, that is a stroke of genius! The AP literally recommends a confrontation with Zozraael to not "occur until the PCs are at least 13th Level", & the Companions Guide states that their "adventure should be something designed to challenge PCs of no less than 13th level." How did I overlook that?

Jaethal I'm thinking maybe have something from Kyonin catch up to her, tying it to those Urgathoa who were turned into mummies seemed like an angle I could pursue

Also not a bad idea. My original thinking was to have Jaethal's pursuers tied to the arrival of Elven diplomats, on Page 153 of the Forgotten Keep, but I haven't thought that far ahead.

The Payoff for Octavia's Quest is her finding her mother in Pitax, & the Glenebon region for Regongar's home tribe. Whether you go the slave-route or not, that implies After the events of Chapter 8 when Pitax is navigable, somewhere between Levels 14-16. I was initially going to skip them entirely just to save myself the effort, or have them pop up as forcefully conscripted war-casters in Fort Drelev's armies, or captured by the Tiger Lords. Maybe they had a bad run-in with the local giants, idk. I wonder if they could be reflavored as survivors of the Iron Wraiths? That group only exists to die later. My PCs already think their leader is an absolute jarhead. It might be interesting for the PCs to get to know 2 of the faces under those identical polished helmets. & Regongar & Octavia's arrogance & recklessness could be exactly what led to the group's failure in Chapter 7, & if the party heals them it makes for a humbling moment for the both of them. Their stories need overhauls anyways...
Honestly, I don't mind introducing companions later than intended, because the early chunk of the AP is filled with them. Especially if their story-payoffs are later in the adventure.

I spent a lot of time overthinking this question, to the point of expanding it into 3 questions. By Examining the Companion's Guide & answering those 3, I thought I'd find some grandiose pattern used by the authors. In no particular order, those were:

1. How much Exp should Companion Quests give?

2. When Companion Quests should occur?

3. What did they use from the Video Game, & what was cut?

I'm going to go ahead really quick & answer #1: There's no consistency to how much exp each companion quest gives. I went through each companion already in the book & it varied IMMENSILY. Maybe it's because I was mostly focusing on encounter xp & not hypothetical Roleplay xp? idk. TBH, some quests ARE less combat-oriented, like Jubilost's, whereas others are strictly mini-dungeon crawls. If by the end of your calculations, you have between 100 - 600 xp, it's good enough.

2 & 3 were FAR more interesting to answer though. Throughout the book, they always recommend that Companion Quests occur during the in-between parts of the story, right after the Big Fight or right before a new threat approaches. Using the AP's Timeline & the Companion book:

Ch3 Stolen Land
•[Amidst, Companion Introductions]
•[After, ???]

Ch4 Rivers Run Red
•[Amidst, Nok-Nok, Level 5]
•[After, Ekundayo, level 6]

Ch5 Cult of the Bloom
•[Amidst, Linzi, Level 7]
•[After, Jublilost, level 8]

Ch6 The Varnhold Vanishing
•[Amidst, Valerie, Level 9]
•[After, Tristian, Level 10]

Ch7 Blood for Blood
•[Amidst, Amiri, level 11]
•[After, ???]

Ch8 War of the River Kings
•[Amidst, ???]
•[After, ???]

Ch9 They lurk Below

Ch10 Sound of a Thousand Screams
•[Amidst, ???]

Ch11 Curse of the Lantern King
Behold, method to the madness! I've taken the liberty of adding the [Blank] Slots, but essentially we have ~2 companion slots per story beat. Amidst happens during the brief loose parts of the chapters, while After occurs upon the Chapter's conclusion. With 5 spare companions, Chapter 9 being an optional Dungeon, & the end of Ch10 leading directly into Ch11, I think this is where the slots make most sense. You can also see a lovely Level distribution; they clearly wanted these to be spread out.
Answering Q. 3 took a bit more investigation. I ultimately turned to this page:I recommend using Crt-F to find the Companion because it's split into the game's Acts. This illustrates an important detail however, once you compare the videogame companion quests side-by-side their book-versions: The Authors trimmed off the fat. The game is a singleplayer experience where exploring previously-seen locations is to be expected & story lines are worked on bit-by-bit. But this is tabletop roleplaying.
Take Amiri for example: Her Act 1 & 2 side quests were turned into unrelated events in the AP (Tuskgutter & the Hodag Lair), & the events from Acts 3, 5, & 6 were condensed into a singular outing.
& if you run comparisons with the other companions, the same pattern can be seen. Most have minor tweaks, but a lot of the characters & story beats remain the same. Some Acts get combined, some story beats are dropped, & others rearrange the order of events.
This is where I left off, but I recommend reading through a companion's videogame quests, writing down the main bits or details that stick out to you, then go on from there to write something more cohesive.

These were fantastic! My players were all Political Science majors back in college, so coincidentally this was much like a course they all had to take, where they each roleplayed a nation & had to negotiate with each other terms & agreements. We’ve had a blast. It’s been a surprisingly elegant way of providing lore, roleplaying opportunities, free resources, & the puzzle aspect of figuring out which factions work best together. The final trick was by offering them resources & buildings, it meant they all had to start reading those pesky kingdom rules to know how substantial each offer was.

I tweaked a few things, changing some scenes to reduce NPC-bog, shifting meeting times to have less free time (it became evident that they wanted more meetings faster), adjusting the contracts to fit into 11 pages so that it’s easier to print for myself, making a valuable color-coded chart to illustrate which holidays fell into which months, & rewriting the churches alignment limitations. With alignments gone, I instead used each religion’s edicts & anathemas to influence the budding nation to the south, picking ones that I thought would subtly shift how my players would play.

Something you can’t always plan for but I’d recommend is reading up on the holidays. We’re only 6 months into playing Pathfinder, & I love the world-building they do for the smallest things. Coincidentally, Taxfest aligned with the party’s time in Restov; it just made it all the more magical.