BeowulfIam's page

This is a question raised by a player of mine. I'll quote precisely what they said:

I spent all my morning today reading through mount and travel stuff, everything from exotic mounts to walking speed conversions from base speed, and I've stumbled across an oddity: Mount Movement Encumberance vs Str Weight encumbrance is inconsistent when it comes to horses.

Heavy horses are listed with a 20 Str Score in the Bestiary which should give them the capacity to carry up to 400 lbs as a light load (adjusted appropriately for a Large Quadrupedal animal), however in the Mounts/Vehicles Table of the Movement section on PFSRD they are given a base speed penalty (considered encumbered) by a load at 230 lbs, which translates to a medium load for a 16 Str Score on the carrying capacity page.

Light horses are similarly undercut on the movement page, given what is effectively a Str Score of 14 (once properly adjusted) when they are listed with a 16 Str Score in the Bestiary.

Furthermore on the same table, Ponies are considered encumbered at 150 lbs and can carry a max of 450 lbs, which doesn't sync up with Any of a Pony's stats. Given that a regular pony's Str Score is 13, and that it is a Medium Quadrupedal animal, its maximum light load would be 75 lbs or less, meaning that it would be considered encumbered if it were carrying a load 76 lbs and up, and could not carry more than 225 lbs. Significantly less than the Movement table.

However ponies, as described in their ecology, have a custom carrying capacity, separate from their strength, with a maximum light load listed at 100 lbs and a maximum total load at 300 lbs... Which is still significantly lower from the movement table listing.

Oddly enough however, the encumbrance and max loads listed for Riding Dogs on the movement table perfectly match the carrying capacity of a Medium Quadrupedal animal with the riding dog's listed Str Score of 15.

I could literally go on for paragraphs about the information I've pulled out of this discrepancy, and the potential logic behind obeying either side of this discrepancy, and I'm half way to building my own mechanic to solve this discrepancy. But, for briefness' sake --and considering that I may very well have missed a rule somewhere-- my questions are: Which set of carrying capacities apply? Am I simply missing a rule? If I am missing a rule, does it apply to other types of mounts? And if I'm not missing a rule, and both carrying capacities apply, how is the contradiction dealt with?

To which I responded by saying that at first I thought that the inconsistency was due to Pathfinder grandfathering in some more stuff from 3.5 without making proper adjustments based on new rules. Horses in Pathfinder are handled differently than 3.5 after-all.

Ultimately, I was proven wrong. Next, I looked into the Advanced Simple Template as a possibility since it would explain the 4 strength discrepancy in the Heavy Horse. Though it explained nothing with the other mounts. Ultimately, I'm not sure why there is a discrepancy.

With that said, I think it would be best to go with the ACTUAL carrying capacity of the creature (that way special mounts, summoned augmented mounts, and the like are accounted for). So 400 lbs for the Heavy Horse.

However, I would like to ask the Paizo community for thoughts or to point out something the two of us have obviously missed.

Best of nights, sir, and best of luck!

You remember these little guys from 3.5, right? Just throwing this out in the air. I have a character now that is one. Here's what was houseruled for the campaign.

Standard Racial Traits

Ability Score Racial Traits: Goliath characters gain a +4 to strength, a +2 to Constitution, a -2 to Dexterity, and a -2 to Intelligence. Goliaths are very tough and powerful, but large, clumsy, and often uneducated.
Type: Goliaths are Humanoid creatures with both the human and giant subtypes.
Size: Goliaths are Medium creatures and thus have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Base Speed: Goliaths have a base speed of 30 feet.
Languages: Goliaths begin play speaking Common and Giant. Goliaths with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Abyssal, Draconic, Gnoll, Goblin, and Orc.

Feat and Skill Racial Traits

Mountaineer: Goliaths gain a +2 on Acrobatics and Climb checks because of their generally mountainous homes.

Shunned: Goliaths receive a -2 penalty to all Diplomacy checks. While Goliaths do not have difficulty finding a way to connect with other people, people have trouble trusting them.

Senses Racial Traits

Darkvision: Goliaths can see in the dark up to 60 feet.

Other Racial Traits

Giant's Grip: Despite being medium in size, Goliaths are nearly large size category and are incredibly powerful for even their size. Goliaths may wield weapons as if they are one size category larger than they actually are.

Giant Build: Goliaths are much larger than humans, therefore they are treated differently. Giants are considered large for the purposes of resisting Bull Rush and Grapple attempts.

I also considered making a feat for the class called "Improved Giant Build" that allowed Goliaths to be considered large for the purposes of performing Bull Rush and Grapple maneuvers.