Darius Finch

Artful Dodger's page

Organized Play Member. 16 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Organized Play characters.




Simple question: Can the recipient of Deadly Juggernaut harvest his minions to increase the bonuses provided by the spell, provided their hit dice fall within the appropriate range described by the spell?


Simple question: Does Wrath of the Righteous feature an entry for Retrievers where they are listed as something other than evil creatures?

Optional Background: My GM is frustrated by our party's competence. I'm a late arrival to the game, a replacement player for a bard who left, and playing a paladin by request. The frustration presented by my paladin is not entirely the damage he deals, as the ranger puts out more even against my smite. Also, I don't mind. I went Marshal for support abilities.

The frustration stems from his mythic ability to share the benefits of his smite with his party. As a paladin who poured into his charisma, those are exceptionally powerful bonuses.

I ask because it was decided right after I wanted to smite a Retriever that they're not evil and they don't detect as evil. I know that to be a lot of b~%@&%~s in standard play, but it was said, "I'm looking at the description right now, and they're not evil."

Alternate interpretation of the simple question: Is my GM a bad liar, or did they print an unusual exception for normally-evil monsters in Wrath of the Righteous without any plot-based reason to do so?


Rays are considered weapons, as they are legal for Weapon Specialization, from the FAQ. A weapon (even an unarmed strike) of some kind is needed to perform an attack. This is how they qualify for Weapon Focus, Specialization, Improved Critical, etc.

Vital Strike does not specify a melee or ranged attack. RAW, it can be used along with bows, crossbows, thrown daggers, rocks, etc. Unfortunately this also means (so far) that it can be used with rays.

Enter the Dread Snowball of Doom, or just Snowball. Close range, ranged touch, 1d6/level cold damage, capped at 5d6 cold damage. That goes up to 10d6 with a Vital Strike, 15d6 with Improved, 20d6 with Greater. Few casting classes will get the BAB and the CL for it, but it's there. The Magus will get CL 20 and enough BAB for Improved Vital Strike.

But that's not all. Intensify Spell raises the cap by 5d6, though the spell continues to grow at the original rate. That Snowball now does 10d6, 20d6 on a Vital Strike, 30d6 on an Improved Vital Strike, on a second-level slot. I've found nothing yet that forbids multiple applications of Intensify Spell. Note that this does not add extra damage, but lets the spell's basic damage continue to grow. Let's keep with the Magus for a bit.

At 9th level he'll have enough BAB and have an available feat to take Vital Strike. His Snowball is Intensified once and deals 18d6 on a Vital Strike. It'll go up by 2d6 each level until he hits level 17. That's when he takes Improved Vital Strike. His Snowball has been Intensified three times and deals 51d6 on a Vital Strike. That's ridiculous for a 4th-level slot, on a spell that has yet to be Empowered or Maximized to boot.

Precedent already exists for a Vital Strike delivered as part of another standard action's attack (Felling Smash), though I suspect that it's more the case that the Felling Smash can trigger from a Vital Strike. The attack roll is part of the standard action used to cast the spell, but if that is not enough to qualify it as an attack action then the charge can also be held and delivered next round as a standard action (or the same round as a standard action if it was Quickened), thus making it an attack action.

Yes, I suppose I am a spoilsport, blowing the whistle like this, but something should probably get set in motion for the official games, while the individual GMs can just say, "No, I'm not allowing that".


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I recently was made aware of the new hybrid classes and decided to give them a look, as my players had expressed some interest in playing them. I was promptly gobsmacked at what I saw as a nightmarish oversight in handling die size scaling thanks to Close Weapon Mastery in the brawler, and in the Shield Champion in particular. Those who wish to ignore the numbers and just quote me the rules that say this is not possible, if such rules exist, skip or skim the following:

1. "At 12th level, a shield champion can use her unarmed strike damage when dealing damage with a shield (whether in melee or thrown) or the shield's damage, whichever is greater." At this level, that's 2d6. A non-shield champion brawler will be dealing 1d8 instead, as the shield bash is in the Close weapon group.

2. Shield spikes increase the size rating of the shield by one category. For the SC that means a 3d6 shield. For the standard brawler that's a 2d6 shield.

3. Bashing property increases the size rating of the shield by two categories. That means the SC goes from 3d6 to 6d6. Standard brawler goes from 2d6 to 4d6.

4. Using a heavy shield means it's not a light weapon, and thus qualifies for the Impact enhancement, increasing its die by another category. SC goes from 6d6 to 8d6, standard from 4d6 to 6d6.

5. Enlarge Person and Lead Blades (external augmentation), both of which are found cheaply in wand and potion form. These are worth a size category each. Enlarge Person does have a caveat stating that multiple magic effects increasing SIZE do not stack, but says nothing for size categories. It is the only effect listed that actually increases your size. RAW, both work. That's two more increases, taking the SC to 16d6, the standard to 12d6. Per bash. At 12th level.

6. Strong Jaw, contingent on having a druid or ranger in the party, or access to significantly more expensive wands or potions. Two size increases. 16d6 goes to 32d6, 12d6 goes to 24d6. This one works on the base damage that the shield is set to (that of the unarmed strike), but these can generally be added sequentially for the sake of figuring out the die size.

With all of these shenanigans in play and available to, say, a fighter, the shield bash would only be a 6d6 weapon. That's still nothing to sneeze at in standard play, but 12d6, 16d6, or even 24d6 or 32d6 are just absurd at any level of play. Carrying my scaremongering on from here, at 20th level that Shield Champion would be doing 48d8 + Str mod, per bash, getting seven bashes per round on a full attack.

So! This is me seeking clarification on rules, an official statement addressing possible errata if errata is missing, or some other form of encouragement.


From the paizo.com listing:

Hand of the Apprentice (Su): You cause your melee weapon to fly from your grasp and strike a foe before instantly returning to you. As a standard action, you can make a single attack using a melee weapon at a range of 30 feet. This attack is treated as a ranged attack with a thrown weapon, except that you add your Intelligence modifier on the attack roll instead of your Dexterity modifier (damage still relies on Strength). This ability cannot be used to perform a combat maneuver. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.

I'm concerned specifically with the phrasing, "This attack is treated as a ranged attack with a thrown weapon," and what it might imply. When my BAB reaches +6, will I be able to make a second Hand of the Apprentice attack if I choose to take the Full Attack action, or will I always be limited to one use of this ability per round?