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Zioalca wrote:

I don't believe it actually is. The wording you are referring to doesn't really have anything to do with the feat and should probably be moved under Eidolon entry.

It's mentioned in both the feat and the 'Riding Independent Creatures' part: "If you have the Hulking Evolution feat, you’re able to ride on your eidolon without this drawback' seems to imply that without the feat, you take the drawback.

I'm also interested to hear the ruling on this as it implies you need the feat due to the location of the text, which seems a little silly if you were size small.

PF1 phantoms had the same lore (a spirit that doesn't want to pass on) but were emphatically not undead. So making them healed by positive energy would be consistent with the last edition.

The difference I think is that the Phantom is not a ghost which has decided to stay for whatever reason, it's the echoes of a person that cannot move on to the river of souls for whatever reason.

Fair, I went back and looked. I erroneously remembered phantoms being undead, but it looks like they were outsiders. Most of my confusion I think comes from them being souls that have escaped from death in some measure. I imagine the "unfettered phantom" in 2e would be a spirit, but not undead.

Yeah, I think theres a significant difference in lore between a lost spirit and an undead ghost. One is an necromantic abomination, and the other is not.

I was running off of the idea of them being more similar than they are, my bad.

Guess that answers my stupid question lol.

Before someone yells at me, I am aware that RAW as it stands, a phantom eidolon heals like any other eidolon and it doesn't have the undead trait.

Being that the phantom is a lost spirit like a ghost in this instance wouldn't it make sense for it to have negative healing? This seems to be hinted at in flickering evolution as only Force and Negative damage are not granted resistance. From my point of view, this is to allow the force to hit normally and not hamper the healing of an undead creature with negative healing.

Just my thoughts, please be gentle.

Do small summoners regain only 2 actions at the start of their turns when riding a medium Eidolon? Seems odd that you'd be forced to make your pony large with HULKING EVOLUTION to ride it when you can ride a normal pony without issue. And if you need to take the feat to ride it without losing an action, do I NEED to make it Large?

I am also wondering this, +1 on this question. The text seems more like a clarification personally, but if so I think it should be with earlier eidolon info.

Pathfinder's already got one. Third party, but used in at least one Paizo Adventure Path. Of course, if these represent the great great grandchildren of succubi, things are different.

that is the case, these are down-the-line descendants. I'll edit it to make that more clear.

This was a 3.5 Race we liked and decided to port, While Technically you could call them tieflings they show a more specific relation to their demonic parents than most and have different skills. note that Allurin are not born directly to succubi, or incubi, but rather are born much the way teiflings are.

Allurin RP(13-15)

Build
Outsider (native) 3 RP
-Darkvision 60
Medium 0RP (even though some are born to small races all Allurin are medium, though some may be short)

Normal Speed 0RP

Standard scores: +2 Dex, +2Cha, -2STR 0RP

Standard Language: Common, Abyssal////// Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Infernal, and Orc, (and the language of their parent if it is not listed) 0RP

Advanced Charisma 4Rp

Fiendish resistance (fire,cold,,elec resist 5) 3RP

Susceptibility to cold iron -3RP

Spell like ability: Charm Person 1/day Charisma based dc, 1RP

Succubus Heritage: +3 on charisma checks and charisma based skills 4RP

Delicious kiss: (as well as below)

=====Alternates=====

Gliding Wings 3RP replaces succubus heritage

Compelling kiss: replaces Delicious kiss and spell like ability 3RP

Pleasing Form: replaces spell like ability with Alter self 1/day 1rp

Succubi Aura: replaces fiendish resistance, Add CHA bonus to AC when wearing no armor 4rp

Traits

Standard racial Traits
+2 dexterity, +4 Charisma, -2 Strength
Allurin are lithe and beautiful, but somewhat weak
Type: Outsider (native)
Size: Medium
-Allurin receive no bonus or penalty for their size
Speed base land speed 30 feet
Languages Allurin begin play knowing Common and Abyssal. Allurin with high intelligence scors may choose from the following: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Infernal, and Orc, (and the language of their parent if it is not listed)
Defensive Racial Traits
Fiendish Resistance: Allurin have cold resistance 5, electricity resistance 5, and fire resistance 5.
Magical Racial Traits:
Spell like ability: Charm person 1/day. The save dc is equal to 11+the Allurin's Charisma modifier. The caster level is equal to the Allurin's class level.
Delicious Kiss(Su): An Allurin may use this ability when kissing a victim, or during any other act of passion. If the target is not willing to be kissed, the Allurin must start a grapple, which provokes an attack of opportunity. The victim is dazed for 1 round, and the Allurin is treated as though she has just consumed a good meal. The victim feels as though the experience was highly pleasurable, but is not under any supernatural compulsion to allow another kiss.
Senses Racial Traits:
Darkvision 60
Other Racial Traits:
Succubus Heritage: +3 on charisma checks and charisma based skills
Weaknesses:
Susceptibility to cold iron (Su): If an Allurin takes damage from a cold iron weapon, he takes one point of strength damage for each 5 full points of damage from the attack. He may take up to three points of ability damage with one hit. There is no saving throw. They also take this damage from creatures who are able to overcome DR / cold iron. Allurin suffer a -2 penalty to their attack rolls with weapons made of cold iron.

ALTERNATIVE RACIAL TRAITS
Gliding Wings: Some Allurin have wings that dont quite offer flight but allow for gliding though these wings tend to be slightly offputting. Members of this race take no damage from falling (as if subject to a constant nonmagical feather fall spell). While in midair, members of this race can move up to 5 feet in any horizontal direction for every 1 foot they fall, at a speed of 60 feet per round. A member of a race with gliding wings cannot gain height with these wings alone; it merely coasts in other directions as it falls. If subjected to a strong wind or any other effect that causes a creature with gliding wings to rise, it can take advantage of the updraft to increase the distance it can glide. This trait replaces succubus heritage

Compelling Kiss (Su):Some Allurin's kisses evoke compliance in their victims.This ability otherwise acts as delicious kiss except where noted below. Whenever an Allurin kisses another that target must succeed a will save DC of 10 + half your character level + Cha modifier or else they will be compelled to accept another kiss, . This trait replaces Delicious kiss and spell like ability

Pleasing Form: Some Allurin have a knack for finding the form to be most pleasing others rather than compelling others to their will. This trait replaces spell like ability with Alter self 1/day

Succubi Aura:Some Allurin exude beauty like armor, granting them their Charisma bonus as a deflection bonus to AC. an allurin must not be wearing armor to use this ability. this trait replaces fiendish resistance
Feats:

Wings of a demon:
Prerequisites, Allurin Race
Gain the Gliding wings Racial trait for Allurin

Wings of the Succubi:
Prerequisites , Allurin Race, Gliding wings racial trait, fly 10 ranks
gain Fly speed 40 good maneuverability

Ennervating Kiss:
Prerequisites: Allurin Race, Delicious kiss or Compelling kiss racial trait, Character Level 7
You may Have the Subject of your Delicious or Compelling kiss take 1 negative level, they must pass a fortitude save of 10+1/2 Character level+Cha mod to negate

Fluff

Perfect cheekbones, perfect hair, tall, slim, beautiful... this is the average-looking Allurin. Humanoids of mostly human descent, a special blood runs in their veins. The blood of succubi and incubi. Allurin are cousin to Tieflings but show a far more specific relation to their demonic parents.
Of how they came to be, two legends exist. One romantic, one frightening. The romantic tale tells of Tylia, a succubus who fell in love with a human. She defied the lords of hell, but was stripped of her demonic powers and gave birth to his children. The other tale tells of incubi that visit maidens at night and leave demonic seed in their womb, to poison humanity with their evil heritage. Both legends may be true, or neither...
Personality[]
Allurins blend into human society in a way only Changelings can match, but they still stick out. Their striking and exotic looks make them the center of attention they often have horns that get them mistaken for tieflings as well. Many of them enjoy it and become famed muses and performers. Others, aware of their dark heritage, try to hide their faces and even scar themselves, hoping to be left alone.
Physical Description[]
While they appear tiefling or human at first glance, all Allurin share an attractive physique, with almost exaggerated features. Women have curvacious bust and hips, and men have athletic bodies and impressive equipment. While some try to hide it, most Allurin stress this even more by wearing tight-fit and revealing clothing. Many have unusual features like deeply violet eyes or an almost pink natural hair color, or naturally red nails.
Relations[]
Allurins that hide their true identity share the same racial relations as humans. Yet, they tend to be shunned by the elves, who see themselves as the epitome of beauty and perfection. Orc see Allurin women as prized slaves. The sturdy, down-to-earth dwarves shun them for their touch of the supernatural. If Allurin are found out to be what they are, they are often driven away, or worse. Only in the company of other outcasts, such as teiflings, can they find kindred souls.
Alignment[]
Allurin can have any alignment, but their taint of evil (see below) makes it difficult for them to actually convince people of their good intentions. This being the case, few are truly neutral, and most tend towards any one of the extremes.
Lands[]
Allurin have no home region as such, and can be found in any human region. They are more likely to be encountered in lands that have a tradition of demon summoning or being haunted by demons. Their numbers are few, so any community with a majority of Allurin would be a small hamlet of outcasts rather than a city. Most Allurin prefer to blend in in a big city, earning their coin in the shady parts, or joining bands of traveling performers.
Religion[]
Religion is a difficult topic for Allurin, as clerics have the best tools of telling a person's true nature. Paladins have a history of hunting and persecuting them for their heritage, not for who they are as individuals. A select few Allurin themselves have taken up the torch of light and fight evil to redeem themselves, and even battle their own kin.
Evil cults also seek out the Allurin, either as followers or as powerful blood sacrifices. Some Allurin embrace their dark side fully and serve the lords of the Abyss, working as spies and recruiters on the material plane.
Most Allurin feel uncomfortable around any kind of organized religion. They prefer to keep their spiritual beliefs to themselves and avoid organized religion as far as possible.
Language[]
Most allurin speak whatever language is spoken in their home region. They tend to have a natural grasp of abyssal.
Names[]
Any that is usual in their home region. Allurin that work as performers usually have stage names. Allurin who have given up disguising themselves as humans prefer names with a dark and demonic ring to them.
Adventurers[]
As their heritage will never allow them to have a quiet, undisturbed life, almost every Allurin is an adventurer, even though not all enjoy this or are successful at it. From their human half, Allurin inherited the versatility, and they take a variety of careers. Bard, sorcerer, and rogue are the most common. While there are a select few very determined Allurin paladins, their taint of evil makes them outcasts within their faith.

afternote: this is a repost with some minor modifications to the flavortext

Ok this Post is so old it wont let me edit it anymore, so just as a note, the flavor text is a straight rip rom the 3.5 version. they should NOT detect as evil unless they are evil. This is my bad for missing it during the original conversion which i originally just used for home games, now that it is shared i shall make a new post of it with altered text

Why do paladins always detect evil in them? Nothing in their crunch says that they have an evil aura.

my bad i didnt remove that from the 3.5 flavor entry

Sorry bout the dead bump.

as pertaining to the using light cantrip equivalent to set people on fire. by using the rules of harmless spells to non harmless (something that is usually very situational) such as using a cure spell on a skeleton, you must make a touch attack against the enemy to set them on fire, now this states that it burns as normal fire, which is 1d6 damage a round but can be put out on their turn for a dc 15 Reflex save as per putting out a normal fire. it could also be doused with water or they could stop drop and roll and give themselves that bonus. this makes it very ineffective against heavily armored opponents who would have several turns (3 if we go by heat metal) to put out the flames (and you cant just cover them in fire as you can only have 1 effect at a time). when placing light on substantially sized objects you basically leave a hand print of light, and thus in this case fire. so if you wanted to do well with this in combat you need to hit clothes or flesh. now this is twice as much damage as say, acid splash, but it is also a touch based spell-like/Supernatural ability and thus provokes or must be cast defensively. this makes it a risky thing to use in combat but also balanced, risk vs reward. to make it not overly appealing the fire should go out if smothered, whetted, or otherwise extinguished, but otherwise maintain the 10 min/lvl time frame. i think i covered everything there. not sure, point out any issues please.

Also, in 3.5 there was a feat called Hold the Line which allowed AoO's vs. Charge.

just as a note Hold the line made it into pathfidner via d20PFSRD publishing

The Evolved Path

Until a few hours ago nobody had replied to this post in 5+ years.

I'm not saying you can't revive it, I just want you to be aware that you are replying to posters who have likely found the answer by now.

whoops I hadn't noticed. I've just recently had some of the same issues come up in game and thought i'd help with what i had foud. thanks for the heads up though.

Mynameisjake wrote:

The rules also say that the creator sets the final CL of the item.

No. The rules say that "For potions, scrolls, and wands the creator can set the caster level[.]" But they also say "For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself."

A pearl of power isn't a potion, scroll, or wand. Therefore, by the published rule on p.460, the creator has no say in what level it is. There is no such thing as an armor, weapon, ring, rod, staff, or wondrous item with a caster level other than the one specified in the item description.

I don't know why the FAQ ignores this rule. Perhaps the rule will be hit with the errata stick at some point.

I hope i can clear this up a bit, you can find the answer to this problem by reverse building the item using magic creation rules, take a pearl of power (seems to be everyone's favorite) for example, a lvl 1 pearl of power cost 1000 gold as the pricing is based on the spell lvl squared, an argument on this particular item is difficult as CL does not factor in to it's price, however it is simple to se that the listed CL is that of a 9th lvl pearl

this is also errataed specifically "Though the listed Caster Level for a pearl of power is 17th, that caster level is not part of the Requirements listing for that item. Therefore, the only caster level requirement for a pearl of power is the character has to be able to cast spells of the desired level. However, it makes sense that the minimum caster level of the pearl is the minimum caster level necessary to cast spells of that level--it would be strange for a 2nd-level pearl to be CL 1st. For example, a 3rd-level wizard with Craft Wondrous Item can create a 1st-level pearl, with a minimum caster level of 1. He can set the caster level to whatever he wants (assuming he can meet the crafting DC), though the pearl's caster level has no effect on its powers (other than its ability to resist dispel magic). If he wants to make a 2nd-level pearl, the caster level has to be at least 3, as wizards can't cast 2nd-level spells until they reach character level 3. He can even try to make a 3rd-level pearl, though the minimum caster level is 5, and he adds +5 to the DC because he doesn't meet the "able to cast 3rd-level spells" requirement"

but you can reverse engineer most magic items by breaking down the price and discovering the mechanics of the items creation and most (if not all) follow the rule of meeting minimum CL to cast the spell, in the case of items with alternate "Levels" such as the pearl of power the CL adjusts accordingly.
my personal ruling would be you have to be high enough level to cast the spell, OR have a scroll or something OR make an appropriatly high spellcraft (+5 for each level between you and the spell that needs casting if you also cant cast that spell)
for example 4th lvl wizard wants to make a CL7 "fireball glove" (homemade 1 charge per day 7d6 damage" well frankly it would be hard, theres a 3 lvl differance so +15 and the spell isn't known +5 added to the base of 12 (5+7) for a total of 32 spellcraft required to make. it would be much better to try making it CL 5 and deal just 5d6 with only 1 lvl differance so +5 no spell +5 added to 12 for just a DC of 22, this is certainly doable but not guaranteed for the low level caster. mind you thats my house rule and the Core rules are still a bit convoluded on that topic.

This was a 3.5 Race we liked and decided to port, While Technically you could call them tieflings they show a more specific relation to their demonic parents than most and have different skills.

Allurin RP(13-15)

Build
Outsider (native) 3 RP
-Darkvision 60
Medium 0RP (even though some are born to small races all Allurin are medium, though some may be short)

Normal Speed 0RP

Standard scores: +2 Dex, +2Cha, -2STR 0RP

Standard Language: Common, Abyssal////// Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Infernal, and Orc, (and the language of their parent if it is not listed) 0RP

Advanced Charisma 4Rp

Fiendish resistance (fire,cold,,elec resist 5) 3RP

Susceptibility to cold iron -3RP

Spell like ability: Charm Person 1/day Charisma based dc, 1RP

Succubus Heritage: +3 on charisma checks and charisma based skills 4RP

Delicious kiss: (as well as below)

=====Alternates=====

Gliding Wings 3RP replaces succubus heritage

Compelling kiss: replaces Delicious kiss and spell like ability 3RP

Pleasing Form: replaces spell like ability with Alter self 1/day 1rp

Succubi Aura: replaces fiendish resistance, Add CHA bonus to AC when wearing no armor 4rp

Traits

Standard racial Traits
+2 dexterity, +4 Charisma, -2 Strength
Allurin are lithe and beautiful, but somewhat weak
Type: Outsider (native)
Size: Medium
-Allurin receive no bonus or penalty for their size
Speed base land speed 30 feet
Languages Allurin begin play knowing Common and Abyssal. Allurin with high intelligence scors may choose from the following: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Infernal, and Orc, (and the language of their parent if it is not listed)
Defensive Racial Traits
Fiendish Resistance: Allurin have cold resistance 5, electricity resistance 5, and fire resistance 5.
Magical Racial Traits:
Spell like ability: Charm person 1/day. The save dc is equal to 11+the Allurin's Charisma modifier. The caster level is equal to the Allurin's class level.
Delicious Kiss(Su): An Allurin may use this ability when kissing a victim, or during any other act of passion. If the target is not willing to be kissed, the Allurin must start a grapple, which provokes an attack of opportunity. The victim is dazed for 1 round, and the Allurin is treated as though she has just consumed a good meal. The victim feels as though the experience was highly pleasurable, but is not under any supernatural compulsion to allow another kiss.
Senses Racial Traits:
Darkvision 60
Other Racial Traits:
Succubus Heritage: +3 on charisma checks and charisma based skills
Weaknesses:
Susceptibility to cold iron (Su): If an Allurin takes damage from a cold iron weapon, he takes one point of strength damage for each 5 full points of damage from the attack. He may take up to three points of ability damage with one hit. There is no saving throw. They also take this damage from creatures who are able to overcome DR / cold iron. Allurin suffer a -2 penalty to their attack rolls with weapons made of cold iron.

ALTERNATIVE RACIAL TRAITS
Gliding Wings: Some Allurin have wings that dont quite offer flight but allow for gliding though these wings tend to be slightly offputting. Members of this race take no damage from falling (as if subject to a constant nonmagical feather fall spell). While in midair, members of this race can move up to 5 feet in any horizontal direction for every 1 foot they fall, at a speed of 60 feet per round. A member of a race with gliding wings cannot gain height with these wings alone; it merely coasts in other directions as it falls. If subjected to a strong wind or any other effect that causes a creature with gliding wings to rise, it can take advantage of the updraft to increase the distance it can glide. This trait replaces succubus heritage

Compelling Kiss (Su):Some Allurin's kisses evoke compliance in their victims.This ability otherwise acts as delicious kiss except where noted below. Whenever an Allurin kisses another that target must succeed a will save DC of 10 + half your character level + Cha modifier or else they will be compelled to accept another kiss, . This trait replaces Delicious kiss and spell like ability

Pleasing Form: Some Allurin have a knack for finding the form to be most pleasing others rather than compelling others to their will. This trait replaces spell like ability with Alter self 1/day

Succubi Aura:Some Allurin exude beauty like armor, granting them their Charisma bonus as a deflection bonus to AC. this trait replaces fiendish resistance
Feats:

Wings of a demon:
Prerequisites, Allurin Race
Gain the Gliding wings Racial trait for Allurin

Wings of the Succubi:
Prerequisites , Allurin Race, Gliding wings racial trait, fly 10 ranks
gain Fly speed 40 good maneuverability

Ennervating Kiss:
Prerequisites: Allurin Race, Delicious kiss or Compelling kiss racial trait, Character Level 7
You may Have the Subject of your Delicious or Compelling kiss take 1 negative level, they must pass a fortitude save of 10+1/2 Character level+Cha mod to negate

Fluff

Perfect cheekbones, perfect hair, tall, slim, beautiful... this is the average-looking Allurin. Humanoids of mostly human descent, a special blood runs in their veins. The blood of succubi and incubi. Allurin are cousin to Tieflings but show a far more specific relation to their demonic parents.
Of how they came to be, two legends exist. One romantic, one frightening. The romantic tale tells of Tylia, a succubus who fell in love with a human. She defied the lords of hell, but was stripped of her demonic powers and gave birth to his children. The other tale tells of incubi that visit maidens at night and leave demonic seed in their womb, to poison humanity with their evil heritage. Both legends may be true, or neither...
Personality[]
Allurins blend into human society in a way only Changelings can match, but they still stick out. Their striking and exotic looks make them the center of attention. Many of them enjoy it and become famed muses and performers. Others, aware of their dark heritage, try to hide their faces and even scar themselves, hoping to be left alone.
Physical Description[]
While they appear human at first glance, all Allurin share an attractive physique, with almost exaggerated features. Women have curvacious bust and hips, and men have athletic bodies and impressive equipment. While some try to hide it, most Allurin stress this even more by wearing tight-fit and revealing clothing. Many have unusual features like deeply violet eyes or an almost pink natural hair color, or naturally red nails.
Relations[]
Allurins that hide their true identity share the same racial relations as humans. Yet, they tend to be shunned by the elves, who see themselves as the epitome of beauty and perfection. Orc see Allurin women as prized slaves. The sturdy, down-to-earth dwarves shun them for their touch of the supernatural. If Allurin are found out to be what they are, they are often driven away, or worse. Only in the company of other outcasts, such as other half-races and planetouched, can they find kindred souls.
Alignment[]
Allurin can have any alignment, but their taint of evil (see below) makes it difficult for them to actually convince people of their good intentions. This being the case, few are truly neutral, and most tend towards any one of the extremes.
Lands[]
Allurin have no home region as such, and can be found in any human region. They are more likely to be encountered in lands that have a tradition of demon summoning or being haunted by demons. Their numbers are few, so any community with a majority of Allurin would be a small hamlet of outcasts rather than a city. Most Allurin prefer to blend in in a big city, earning their coin in the shady parts, or joining bands of traveling performers.
Religion[]
Religion is a difficult topic for Allurin, as clerics have the best tools of telling a person's true nature. Paladins, who will always detect evil in any Allurin, have a history of hunting and persecuting them for their heritage, not for who they are as individuals. A select few Allurin themselves have taken up the torch of light and fight evil to redeem themselves, and even battle their own kin.
Evil cults also seek out the Allurin, either as followers or as powerful blood sacrifices. Some Allurin embrace their dark side fully and serve the lords of the Abyss, working as spies and recruiters on the material plane.
Most Allurin feel uncomfortable around any kind of organized religion. They prefer to keep their spiritual beliefs to themselves and avoid organized religion as far as possible.
Language[]
Most allurin speak whatever language is spoken in their home region. They tend to have a natural grasp of abyssal.
Names[]
Any that is usual in their home region. Allurin that work as performers usually have stage names. Allurin who have given up disguising themselves as humans prefer names with a dark and demonic ring to them.
Adventurers[]
As their heritage will never allow them to have a quiet, undisturbed life, almost every Allurin is an adventurer, even though not all enjoy this or are successful at it. From their human half, Allurin inherited the versatility, and they take a variety of careers. Bard, sorcerer, hexblade, rogue and beguiler are the most common. While there are a select few very determined Allurin paladins, their taint of evil makes them outcasts within their faith.