Agrellan Wyngard's page

Jonenee Merriex wrote:

Can we clarify whether these are weapons and affected by things like point blank shot, cluster shot, etc?

Update: Yes, these should be rays, and therefore are subject to feats like PBS, Weapon Focus (ray), and so on.

Jonenee Merriex wrote:

Also can we clarify if these are magical?

Yes, these count as magic weapons (such as for overcoming DR, affecting incorporeal creatures, and so on).

I love you, I love you, I love you!

Thanks so much!

Ok I understand wanting a little clarification on the ability, but c'mon a total re-write?

I've been to major cons and minor cons and I have yet to even see one of these being played.
The only things needing absolute rulings (in my humble opinion) are that it CAN in fact be targeted all against the same target (1 attack roll per target), it IS affected by DR, it should require one save per target not per word, they are NOT weapons and cannot be affected by anything modifying weapons, and maybe JUST maybe it should only get the charisma bonus to damage once per target and not per word.

Just my 2 cents.

To a degree, I agree with this statement. Rewriting the ability seems extreme. In practice however, (and this is from someone who's dealt with this ability as a player playing it, a player at a table with someone else playing it, an event coordinator with multiple people playing it and a GM running a game with a player playing it) this is a very burdensome ability. Even with the limits you're talking about we're talking over 10 rolls for one action. The character still has a move and swift and free actions. It just stops games dead every time.

I love bards, they are the only class I play. My very first character in PFS was a Sound Striker Bard and by the time I got him to level 10, several GMS asked me not to play him because it was such a problem. The Long Beach group I run has 3 people playing this archtype and EVERY time there is a disagreement about how the ability works. This is - hands down - the most troublesome ability in Pathfinder to date.

That said, you have absolutely keyed in on very specific things that the new version still doesn't address, which is part of my concern since that means even after this change there will not be a claity on the ability.

It has to have some kind of function other than damage if it is not allowed to be competitive in that arena.

What about making it an effect that functions in conjuncti Vice as a freon with weapons? I think it would be neat if you could add a stunning effect to your weapon for rounds equal to investment. I would much rather see this kind of thing be usable with inspire courage though or your not going to use it because you'll miss too much.

Maybe they should just make the ability give the character Discordant Voice as a free Feat.

The design team and the developers have talked about this ability, and we agree that it is problematic, in that it isn't clear, and (depending on how it's interpreted) is either a very poor ability or a very powerful ability.

Problems include:
* text isn't clear whether you can shoot one target multiple times
* two rolls needed to resolve the effect (ranged touch attack and saving throw)
* damage is low if you can't shoot a particular target more than once, but high if you can
* ability starts with 6 shots when you first gain it, but caps out at 10 shots only 4 levels later

There's no easy or obvious fix for the ability as written.

Rather than quickly putting together an official FAQ or errata with a fix, having people find problems with it, and post revisions to that fix, what we're going to do is present a rough idea of what we think the ability should do, let people pick at it for a while, and revise the wording based on this feedback.

Here is the proposed new wording, parsed over several lines for easier reading:

Weird Words (Su): At 6th level, a sound striker can start a performance as a standard action, lashing out with up to 1 potent sound per bard level (maximum 10), each sound affecting one target within 30 feet. Note: "Up to" means you can choose to fire fewer than the maximum number.
No target can be struck more than once. Note: This makes the intent clear.
Each potent sound expends 1 round of bardic performance. Note: This is new, and keeps the cost from being trivial at higher levels for using the maximum number of sounds.
These are ranged touch attacks.
Each weird word deals 1d8 points of damage plus the bard's Charisma bonus. At 10th, 14th, and 18th level, the damage increases by 1d8. Note: Scaling damage is new. Fort saving throw removed.
The bard chooses what type of damage each word deals (bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing).
This performance replaces suggestion.

I'm OK with this but there are additional clarifications needed. My PFS group has several players who play this and the following are continually contested during games.

Can we clarify whether these are weapons and affected by things like point blank shot, cluster shot, etc?

Also can we clarify if these are magical?

Other than that, can please allow a free rebuild in PFS for those who have this build. This was a go-to build for players looking for a high DPR build for bard and this change (specifically not being able to target one target) makes this build less effective than other options.

Outside of that, this looks good for what it is intended to do.