Welcome to the Impossible Playtest!

GGSigmar wrote:

Xenocrat wrote:

GGSigmar wrote:

Michael Sayre no longer working for Paizo?

They’ve got at least four people who work on new classes as primary developer, usually in pairs. I think he did and is presumably still doing the Commander.

Michael is absent from credits listing all Paizo employees in the pdf. He also deleted his reddit and twitter accounts.

He's on Bluesky, reposting PF2 stuff as recently as three weeks ago.

Unfortunately I was right and Michael is no longer with Paizo. There is a thread about it, confirmed by Paizo. Sad.

Just the first paragraph about the Necromancer makes me think someone at Paizo plays Wizard101 as a Death School mage.

I really like the chassis of the Runesmith; my current rune options, some feats that feel like they should be subclasses, and a lot of emphasis on shields for a class who want a free hand, however, are all pain points.

Fully expecting the usual post-playtest shot in the arm to make this one something really special, though! I've never liked your typical d20 spell slots at all (they've given me headaches for over a decade), so Runesmith and Kineticist offering magical fantasies without using those subsystems makes me really happy.

I really like the chassis of the Runesmith; my current rune options, some feats that feel like they should be subclasses, and a lot of emphasis on shields for a class who want a free hand, however, are all pain points.

Fully expecting the usual post-playtest shot in the arm to make this one something really special, though! I've never liked your typical d20 spell slots at all (they've given me headaches for over a decade), so Runesmith and Kineticist offering magical fantasies without using those subsystems makes me really happy.

right now most rune option are not competitive

hard to imagine it would be fun to just spam slow and damage endlessly

Love the classes, Necromancer mostly just needs smaller touch-ups to be ready, but the fact that Runesmith handles runes the same as Commander did tactics worries me... There's got to be better ways of handling options like this than making up brand new buckets to throw the 15 or so options into that then never get touched again. Like kineticist impulses perhaps? Minus the part where those are in fact a bespoke mechanic that nothing actually interacts with, I mostly mean how they're feats.

Imagine: Rune "Living Weapon" to turn any Weapon into flying animated ally (minion)! (They will never allow such cool thing...)

I really like the chassis of the Runesmith; my current rune options, some feats that feel like they should be subclasses, and a lot of emphasis on shields for a class who want a free hand, however, are all pain points.

Fully expecting the usual post-playtest shot in the arm to make this one something really special, though! I've never liked your typical d20 spell slots at all (they've given me headaches for over a decade), so Runesmith and Kineticist offering magical fantasies without using those subsystems makes me really happy.

We feel similarly about the painpoints you mentioned. I do wish we got a couple of more runes in the playtest itself but I am sure they have plenty of interesting ideas cookimg.

“Enchantment? Enchantment! Enchantment!! - Sandal, clapping his hands and bouncing up and down.

Nice to see you again, Aaron. We have missed you so much!

“Enchantment? Enchantment! Enchantment!! - Sandal, clapping his hands and bouncing up and down.

I may need to make a runesmith version of adult Sandal now, and play them as over the top grim and gritty as I can while only saying "Hello," "Goodbye," and "Enchantment."

I never want to hear the claim that piazo isn't borrowing from 4e again.
There is a class in PHB3, the runePRIEST, that is a martial who uses the power of the godly alphabet to support their allies and harm their foes.
Personally, I LOVE that they are doing this because 4e had a lot of cool thematic ideas.

PF2 and 4e basically had the same design process. Which is to say "you look at all the problems with the 3.x/PF1 rules and you set out to solve those problems. The former just had the benefit of the latter already having been made to inform it.

Like clearly "focus spells" and "encounter powers" are not identical, but they are clearly here to solve the same basic problem of "how do we make an ability that's powerful, not spammable, and doesn't consume a daily resource."

The first time I read about focus powers, I laughed so hard it startled people nearby. I was CACKLING. "They did it! Pathfinder has looped around to being the game that it was the substitute for!". Something is so perfect about the full circle nature of it.

If we're getting obscure enough to get to the 4e style Runesmith, I hope one day we can get the 4e Ardent. It had a really strong thematic and roleplay hook built right into its mechanics, which PF2E tends to do well especially lately. You were a psionic "emotions knight"- your psychic powers weren't focused on raw intelligence and mental control, but about absorbing and projecting emotions.

You walk by the funeral of a man you've never met, and you pick up their emotions so hard that you start crying too. But it also means that you can force enemies to become so depressed they can't even bother fighting for their lives in combat, or inspire your teammates with so much of each other's adrenaline that everyone can shrug off exhaustion and injury.

It clearly started off as just the combination of "power source + team role" that all 4e classes are- a "Psionic + Leader". But it has such amazing story potential! Such fun themes!

And it didn't hurt that their mechanics were fun, too! You attack so much based on raw psionically powered enthusiasm or seriousness, you use charisma to attack.

Good to have some free Impossible playtest stuff out there for PF2e+. ;)

Are there specific PFS rules for this playtest?

Are there specific PFS rules for this playtest?

The usual ones that you can find on Lorespire HERE.

Key points being that GM has to agree and PC has to be level 1, 3 or 5.

And

Impossible Playtest
9 December 2024 to 31 January 2025
This playtest included the Necromancer and Runesmith classes. The character must take a playtest class, and cannot take archetypes.

I'm loving the Runesmith!

A bigger selection of runes (and maybe getting some at every 4th level rather than every eighth) and it might well be a suitable replacement for my beloved Occultist class.

Hmmm, I'm wondering if the Necromancer class will feature options that will make it be akin to a Hallowed Necromancer?

I'm loving the Runesmith!

A bigger selection of runes (and maybe getting some at every 4th level rather than every eighth) and it might well be a suitable replacement for my beloved Occultist class.

I always saw the thaumaturge as the new occultist, myself.

Gisher wrote:

I'm loving the Runesmith!

A bigger selection of runes (and maybe getting some at every 4th level rather than every eighth) and it might well be a suitable replacement for my beloved Occultist class.

I always saw the thaumaturge as the new occultist, myself.

Yeah, it also uses an implement mechanic. But it's Cha-based rather than Int-based, and I only enjoy playing high-Int characters. So Thaumaturge doesn't work for me.

Please rename the Runesmith runes, people keep confusing them with runes. Because they both have the same name.

Someone was just asking if Runic Crafter giving Magical Crafting meant they could add another 4 runes to their repertoire.

Please rename the Runesmith runes, people keep confusing them with runes. Because they both have the same name.

Someone was just asking if Runic Crafter giving Magical Crafting meant they could add another 4 runes to their repertoire.

I thought a similar thing but which name would fit? They aren't going to change the name of the class so "runes" is staying at least. "Primeval" or "primordial" runes I guess could work since I assume this are an ancient form of the current runes everybody uses.

Moth Mariner wrote:

Please rename the Runesmith runes, people keep confusing them with runes. Because they both have the same name.

Someone was just asking if Runic Crafter giving Magical Crafting meant they could add another 4 runes to their repertoire.

I thought a similar thing but which name would fit? They aren't going to change the name of the class so "runes" is staying at least. "Primeval" or "primordial" runes I guess could work since I assume this are an ancient form of the current runes everybody uses.

I found that "permanent runes" for the equipment that can be purchased or crafted, "painted runes" for the all-day runes a runesmith can etch in 10 minutes, and "traced runes" for the traced symbols created by a runesmith in a single action was sufficient distinction. The Impossible Playtest used "etched runes" for the 10-minute runes, but the permanent runes are also described as etched.

It didn't confuse me either. That being said, assuming we did want to change the name, and given that Glyph of Warding didn't make the jump to Remaster, and was replaced by the Rune Trap ritual, referring to them as glyphs might work. It's monosyllabic, and has nearly the same fantasy feel as rune does.
There could even be a blurb in the class itself explaining that glyphs are technically also runes, but runesmiths use the different terms to denote the differences between more permanent and temporary runes. It also heads off pedants at the pass when they start asking why the class isn't called a glyphsmith.

The first time I read about focus powers, I laughed so hard it startled people nearby. I was CACKLING. "They did it! Pathfinder has looped around to being the game that it was the substitute for!". Something is so perfect about the full circle nature of it.

If we're getting obscure enough to get to the 4e style Runesmith, I hope one day we can get the 4e Ardent. It had a really strong thematic and roleplay hook built right into its mechanics, which PF2E tends to do well especially lately. You were a psionic "emotions knight"- your psychic powers weren't focused on raw intelligence and mental control, but about absorbing and projecting emotions.

You walk by the funeral of a man you've never met, and you pick up their emotions so hard that you start crying too. But it also means that you can force enemies to become so depressed they can't even bother fighting for their lives in combat, or inspire your teammates with so much of each other's adrenaline that everyone can shrug off exhaustion and injury.

It clearly started off as just the combination of "power source + team role" that all 4e classes are- a "Psionic + Leader". But it has such amazing story potential! Such fun themes!

And it didn't hurt that their mechanics were fun, too! You attack so much based on raw psionically powered enthusiasm or seriousness, you use charisma to attack.

I liked how the class it was 4th Edition's version of Star War's Battle Meditation. A PF2e version of the Ardent can smash that and the Battlemind into one full class easily.

I wonder when we will get a small write up about the two classes.

It didn't confuse me either. That being said, assuming we did want to change the name, and given that Glyph of Warding didn't make the jump to Remaster, and was replaced by the Rune Trap ritual, referring to them as glyphs might work. It's monosyllabic, and has nearly the same fantasy feel as rune does.

There could even be a blurb in the class itself explaining that glyphs are technically also runes, but runesmiths use the different terms to denote the differences between more permanent and temporary runes. It also heads off pedants at the pass when they start asking why the class isn't called a glyphsmith.

I like the name glyphsmith. The pair of short i sounds gives it a nice rhythm.

Checking a dictionary, I find that rune mostly means the letters of a Norse language, but they have been treated as secret symbols and magic symbols.
Rune
1. A letter, or character, used in the written language of various ancient Germanic peoples, especially the Scandinavians and the Anglo-Saxons.
3. A letter or mark used as a mystical or magic symbol.

Glyph in contrast means carving, and also means a pictograph symbol.
Glyph
1. A figure carved in relief or incised, especially representing a sound, word, or idea.
2. Any non-verbal symbol that imparts information.
3. (typography, computing) A visual representation of a letter, character, or symbol, in a specific font and style.

In Pathfinder 2nd Edition use, rune is a magic symbol that appears during spellcasting and can be mystically carved onto weapons, armor, and some other objects, and glyph is a domain (Glyph domain) that grants power over written words and symbols.

Does anyone knows (based on previous playtests or as some insider info) when we should wait for official release of Necromancer and Runesmith? Playtest has ended 31.01, and after release I believe we'll have new class features, runes for Runesmith, subclasses and so on. What is the usual gap between playtest end and release?

It usually takes about a year. Battlecry! and Starfinder Playtests were both last year, and are set to arrive this year for the official release. So I'd reason whatever book the Impossible Playtest is for will be late 2026 to early 2027.

Does anyone knows (based on previous playtests or as some insider info) when we should wait for official release of Necromancer and Runesmith? Playtest has ended 31.01, and after release I believe we'll have new class features, runes for Runesmith, subclasses and so on. What is the usual gap between playtest end and release?

The kineticist playtest ended September 5, 2022. The Paizo Blog Kineticist Playtest Analysis was posted Wednesday, October 5, 2022, 30 days later. Rage of Elements was published August 2, 2023.

The animist and exemplar playtest ended October 2nd, 2023. The Paizo Blog War of Immortals Playtest Wrap-up Blog was posted Thursday, October 12, 2023, 10 days later. War of Immortals was published October 30, 2024.

The commander and guardian playtest ended June 21st, 2024. The Paizo Blog Battlecry! Playtest Debriefing was posted Tuesday, July 16, 2024, 25 days later. Battlecry! will be available at Gen Con in August 2025.

The necromancer and runesmith playtest ended January 31, 2025. The 10-day mark passed, the 25-day mark will be Tuesday, February 25, and the 30-day mark will be Sunday, March 2.

Does anyone knows (based on previous playtests or as some insider info) when we should wait for official release of Necromancer and Runesmith? Playtest has ended 31.01, and after release I believe we'll have new class features, runes for Runesmith, subclasses and so on. What is the usual gap between playtest end and release?

Pathfinder publishes classes in the book released at GenCon, and this year that is Commander and Guardian. GenCon 2026 starts July 30th, so July 30th, 2026 is when these classes will come out in their final form.

Hyyudu wrote:

Does anyone knows (based on previous playtests or as some insider info) when we should wait for official release of Necromancer and Runesmith? Playtest has ended 31.01, and after release I believe we'll have new class features, runes for Runesmith, subclasses and so on. What is the usual gap between playtest end and release?

Pathfinder publishes classes in the book released at GenCon, and this year that is Commander and Guardian. GenCon 2026 starts July 30th, so July 30th, 2026 is when these classes will come out in their final form.

Save War of Immortals, which was an October release. I'm guessing that's an outlier because of a combination of getting SF2E's playtest--which did release at GenCon--up and running, and lingering wonkiness from needing to put out the remastered core books.

QuidEst wrote:

Hyyudu wrote:

Does anyone knows (based on previous playtests or as some insider info) when we should wait for official release of Necromancer and Runesmith? Playtest has ended 31.01, and after release I believe we'll have new class features, runes for Runesmith, subclasses and so on. What is the usual gap between playtest end and release?

Pathfinder publishes classes in the book released at GenCon, and this year that is Commander and Guardian. GenCon 2026 starts July 30th, so July 30th, 2026 is when these classes will come out in their final form.

Save War of Immortals, which was an October release. I'm guessing that's an outlier because of a combination of getting SF2E's playtest--which did release at GenCon--up and running, and lingering wonkiness from needing to put out the remastered core books.

Yeah, true- I'm ignoring the OGL/Remaster upheaval, especially since we are back to the Battlecry classes coming out this GenCon.

Perpdepog wrote:

QuidEst wrote:

Hyyudu wrote:

Does anyone knows (based on previous playtests or as some insider info) when we should wait for official release of Necromancer and Runesmith? Playtest has ended 31.01, and after release I believe we'll have new class features, runes for Runesmith, subclasses and so on. What is the usual gap between playtest end and release?

Pathfinder publishes classes in the book released at GenCon, and this year that is Commander and Guardian. GenCon 2026 starts July 30th, so July 30th, 2026 is when these classes will come out in their final form.

Save War of Immortals, which was an October release. I'm guessing that's an outlier because of a combination of getting SF2E's playtest--which did release at GenCon--up and running, and lingering wonkiness from needing to put out the remastered core books.

Yeah, true- I'm ignoring the OGL/Remaster upheaval, especially since we are back to the Battlecry classes coming out this GenCon.

And Starfinder 2E, as well! It's going to be a fun August.

QuidEst wrote:

Hyyudu wrote:

Does anyone knows (based on previous playtests or as some insider info) when we should wait for official release of Necromancer and Runesmith? Playtest has ended 31.01, and after release I believe we'll have new class features, runes for Runesmith, subclasses and so on. What is the usual gap between playtest end and release?

Pathfinder publishes classes in the book released at GenCon, and this year that is Commander and Guardian. GenCon 2026 starts July 30th, so July 30th, 2026 is when these classes will come out in their final form.

Save War of Immortals, which was an October release. I'm guessing that's an outlier because of a combination of getting SF2E's playtest--which did release at GenCon--up and running, and lingering wonkiness from needing to put out the remastered core books.

Guns and Gears was also an October release since it came in the same year as SoM (which was that year's GenCon release).

That being said, it seems too optimistic to hope for the Impossible book to be released this October. Either they break the usual schedule and give us Impossible as the spring rule book of 2026 or we'll really have to wait until GenCon 2026.

Perpdepog wrote:

QuidEst wrote:

Hyyudu wrote:

Does anyone knows (based on previous playtests or as some insider info) when we should wait for official release of Necromancer and Runesmith? Playtest has ended 31.01, and after release I believe we'll have new class features, runes for Runesmith, subclasses and so on. What is the usual gap between playtest end and release?

Pathfinder publishes classes in the book released at GenCon, and this year that is Commander and Guardian. GenCon 2026 starts July 30th, so July 30th, 2026 is when these classes will come out in their final form.

Save War of Immortals, which was an October release. I'm guessing that's an outlier because of a combination of getting SF2E's playtest--which did release at GenCon--up and running, and lingering wonkiness from needing to put out the remastered core books.

Guns and Gears was also an October release since it came in the same year as SoM (which was that year's GenCon release).

That being said, it seems too optimistic to hope for the Impossible book to be released this October. Either they break the usual schedule and give us Impossible as the spring rule book of 2026 or we'll really have to wait until GenCon 2026.

I am inclined to agree.

I hope for Spring.

I'm very curious what the book will be about!

Perpdepog wrote:

QuidEst wrote:

Hyyudu wrote:

Does anyone knows (based on previous playtests or as some insider info) when we should wait for official release of Necromancer and Runesmith? Playtest has ended 31.01, and after release I believe we'll have new class features, runes for Runesmith, subclasses and so on. What is the usual gap between playtest end and release?

Pathfinder publishes classes in the book released at GenCon, and this year that is Commander and Guardian. GenCon 2026 starts July 30th, so July 30th, 2026 is when these classes will come out in their final form.

Save War of Immortals, which was an October release. I'm guessing that's an outlier because of a combination of getting SF2E's playtest--which did release at GenCon--up and running, and lingering wonkiness from needing to put out the remastered core books.

Guns and Gears was also an October release since it came in the same year as SoM (which was that year's GenCon release).

That being said, it seems too optimistic to hope for the Impossible book to be released this October. Either they break the usual schedule and give us Impossible as the spring rule book of 2026 or we'll really have to wait until GenCon 2026.

Really? Huh, I genuinely forgot about that being the case. Well, with two counterexamples and one unrelated to OGL, I'll retract my confident statement.

Does anyone knows (based on previous playtests or as some insider info) when we should wait for official release of Necromancer and Runesmith? Playtest has ended 31.01, and after release I believe we'll have new class features, runes for Runesmith, subclasses and so on. What is the usual gap between playtest end and release?

Playtests are generally about a year ahead of the book’s publication, but have been as short as 10 months from playtest to street date and of course have sometimes been longer. It’s possible we might see these classes release at the very end of this year; as mentioned Guns and Gears had a January playtest and October release, but I assume this will more likely be the early release of 2026.