War for the Crown (LitM system)

Game Master Sarah 'queen' B.

Hello

This is an interest check for the Legend in the Mist gaming system, which is available on DrivethruRPG

I'm planning to use it to run through the War for the Crown AP. Hopefully I can get enogh players interested to form a group.

im willing to take a swing at this

I am very interested.

I only know the Legend of the Mist rules a little bit, having played briefly in a sadly-dropped Play-By-Post.

I prefer games where the PCs work together and share info and treasure equally -- and I prefer roleplay far more than combat. In the Players' Guide opening paragraph it says PCs will "tangle with magical
monsters, match wits with senators, and play dirty pool
against some of the most skilled spies." For me, I'm gonna try to milk out every bit of roleplay with the 'match wits with senators' kinda stuff. And, you know, try to participate while the other stuff happens, too. Then get back to intrigue, guile, innuendo, verbal gambits and politicking.

The type of character I enjoy is the character who has two primary aspects: Lore and Bluff. I love learning about all the depth and knowledge of the setting and NPCs and being a loremaster of such. And I love, absolutely Love coming up with lies and gambits and tricks to use against villains to learn more about the evil they're committing -- so as to better defeat them.

I have a character background ready under this Avatar/Alias -- but without any Crunch whatsoever. Not even the 'Why does Martella Lotheed give you an Invitation' Macguffin.

All that can come later.

But from me you'll get someone who can,...

A: Post once or twice each day Monday--Thursday, and sporadically on weekends (sometimes several per weekend, sometime never on the weekend). And who also from time to time may have to miss several weekdays as work gets overloaded.

B: Build a maxed-out Lore and Bluff character

C: Plays in a team with no PvP whatsoever, sharing info, treasure, and planning. In other words, if I'm a 'Rogue' and scouting ahead I find a treasure box, EVERYBODY gets an equal share of what's inside. If I'm a Cleric and an NPC gives me a boon for removing a thorn from his paw, I share the boon with the other PCs. And I expect the same. If we have a choice between telling the Captain-of-the-Guard something/somethin' then we all discuss it and vote.

I'm interested: I almost applied to the Legend in the Mist game you were part of, but the full rules weren't published then and I'm someone who does very much like to read the rules. It looks like a fascinating game system and I think the War for the Crown is a great AP to play it in - lots of role-play and minimal dungeon-crawling.

I'll have a think about character concepts and post some more then.

Oh yes very interested

I've been toying with ideas and I think I have a character concept for an older character, like late forties/early fifties; he's a veteran soldier who's still in shape but aware that age is catching up with him. He's also (behind the bluff, plain-speaking exterior) a fine strategist and cunning thinker, which catches a lot of people off-guard because it's so unexpected.

I'm still drafting themes and tags but wanted to run the outline past you and also a question: I want him to be a little outside the Taldan military hierarchy (although he's proudly Taldan) so what do you think of having him be a veteran of the Worldwound fights instead?

I am interested in this system, and as it is pretty much the best method, I would love to learn it during play.

Consider my name pinned to the board.

I'm pleased to see this level of interest, I was a bit worried there'd be almost nothing but crickets!

@Apemantus - I like the detailed background and I'm curious what themes you decide to go with. My only question for right now is how that character ties into War for the Crown as opposed to any ohter AP. Although we aren't using the campaign traits, they're a useful guide as to how your character finds a 'hook' into the game - what campaign trait do you think your character would have taken if this was a Pathfinder game?

@Darkness - that sounds fine to me. If you're looking for other ideas, you could go with a former Pathfinder agent, but former crusader works for me. Although my question to Apemantus applies here, too - it would be helpful if you have a hook into this particular AP.

@NotEspi - I'm still a beginnier at this game too, although I was part of one that looks like it has just died. I'm happy to help you learn it but it would be ideal if you have a copy of the rulebook for yourself.

I am completely new. So I will for sure need help in designing the character. I'll have a look at WftC for some trait ideas

Though I am debating in making a Kitsune Sorceress 9 Tailed Heir kinda character

@NotEspi - I'm still a beginnier at this game too, although I was part of one that looks like it has just died. I'm happy to help you learn it but it would be ideal if you have a copy of the rulebook for yourself.

That is fine. I was honestly waiting for the physical print to purchase the book, but if I am picked for this table, I will get the PDF.

As one of the players in the Legend in the Mist game that precipitated this, I am of course interested and would happily prepare a submission when the recruitment opens up.

I think there's now enough interest to make this an official recruitment thread :)

I think there's now enough interest to make this an official recruitment thread :)

Woot!

Alright then. Well, I don't know what you need from candidates, but I was looking at the player's guide for inspiration, and like the young reformer background/trait. That said, DIBS!

So I am considering an information procurer type. Someone who grew up in a bad neighbourhood, but knows (or knows how to contact) people in those circles. So kind of a streetwise fellow working for one of the nobles to keep a finger on the general mood and sentiments of the commoners. A field agent for one of the spymasters, I guess. I was thinking about integrating some sort of animal into the mix. Something like a pet (familiar?) rat or bird to help with the information gathering part of the job.

As for the player (me), I've been playing rpgs for about 15 years at this point. A bit longer if we're talking about crpgs. I dabbled with a few systems, then settled on Pathfinder (switched to 2e soon after release). I run tables these days, but I prefer to do that live. I mostly use these boards to scratch the player itch.

I can post daily (with a heads up for short periods of absence), but I am completely new to Legend in the Mist. That said, I've had it in my sights for a while and would like to give it a shot.

Alright then. Well, I don't know what you need from candidates, but I was looking at the player's guide for inspiration, and like the young reformer background/trait.

That is an excellent point. I think making a character for this game is definityly an exercise in collaboration between player and GM, if nothing else because the GM has to understand what each tag means, and how/when it does and does not come into play.

Characters in this game are defined by four Themes. Each Theme is a power Tag in itself, and it has two additional power Tags and one negative Tag.

Power Tags help you to do actions, they add +1 to your dice roll for each Tag you rely on. Negative Tags are a -1 on your dice roll, but the GM can also use them to create complications you have to deal with (my PC had a drawback of "old enemies" and the GM used that to create bad blood between me and and NPC we encountered).

Using negative Tags is how you get XP in this game: you mark 1 XP for each time a negative Tag is used against you. Getting 3 XP allows you to add another power Tag to that Theme.

In addtion to the Tags, each Theme needs a Quest to go with it. Your Quest doesn't necessarily have to be a goal like "to seek the Holy Grail" - it can be a belief your character has, or a code. So your Quest could be "Never give in to darkness or despair" or it might be "I do what I must to survive"

Either way, at suitable points in the adventure you get to consider wheter you have lived up to that Quest - e.g. did you give in to darkness/despair, or not? If you can identify a clear moment when you chose one way or the other, you get to mark Abandon (if you went against the Quest) or Milestone (if you went along with the Quest). For example, if you had the Quest "I do what I must to survive" but you then showed mercy to an enemy and let them go, you might decide that isn't going along with the Quest becuase you put their survival ahead of yours. In which case, you would mark Abandon on that Theme.

(for those of you who love DRAMA - and you know who you are - the Abandon/Milestone mechanic just oozes roleplay potential)

If you mark 3 Abandon or 3 Milestone on a Theme, it changes, and you write a new Theme based on the change. You also gain Promise, which lets you do other stuff. But that's quite a way into the game and I don't want to overwhelm the reader so I will leave it there for now :)

My suggestion is that you put together some suggested Themes and Tags for your character and I will ask quesitons to get more detail. Hopefully between us we can get there!

EDIT: If if would help to see some sample characters, you can click here or here or here. The last one in particular has some wonderfully evocative language!

Looks like quite an interesting character creation process

But again, I will need a lot of help. I'll try to put something together and then have some input please

Would a Kitsune Nine-Tailed Sorceress be possible?

@Seth - absolutely, I will happily help and offer input.

To answer your question: yes, a kitsune 9-tailed sorceress is definitely possible and the rulebook even suggests you can play as a dragon! (see page 87). BUT, this is only my 2nd time playing this game and my 1st tiime running it so I would be very grateful if you would play something a bit more "core Pathfinder" and less exotic :)

Okay. Will have a gander at ideas

Alright, well. I have four theme cards for you. Let me know your thoughts.

@NotEspi - these look great! I have a few questions :)

My experience of this game is that it's frustrating to have a tag that sounds cool but never sees any use in the game, which is why I have so many questions. I hope they're helpful.

Yeah, it made sense in my head when I was making them. I was bouncing off a skeleton of a backstory I did not provide.

To elaborate:

So yeah, this was a a very quick draft and I wanted to bounce ideas off of you to see what's workable and what needs changes. Love the feedback. Hope my comments help.

I have also found a neat tool. It looks simple enough to use. THIS is what it looks like for this particular character.

@NotEspi - thanks, that looks like a really useful link for making LitM characters.

What you say makes sense and is helpful context. Yes, Keleshites (Quadirans) are not looked on favourably by some sections of Taldan society so that works in terms of your family (and yes, a PC with a whole family is a rarity!) being poor and not catching a break. The guild in question could be the Brotherhood of Silence, which is the main thieves guild in Oppara. Or it could be a smaller criminal organisation, your choice.

It sounds like your falcon is more than a mere pet and may be a familiar, possibly with spellcasting as a future Theme if you want to develop that way (not obligatory). He/She needs a name, of course. In terms of Quest, something simple like "I will look after you" would work: you'd have to balance letting them take risks on your behalf with the real danger of harm that brings. And instead of "book scrounger" you could go for somethign like "reads people like books". And a Quest like "Can't trust anyone" would allow for a lot of Milestone/Abandon quandaries as you have to decide if it's true or not.

Sidenote: the PCs primary patron in this AP is Martella Lotheed who is herself of Keleshite origin, maybe you were sent to blackmail/threaten her and she turned around and offered you (and your family) a way out, provided you work for her instead?

Oh, she's Keleshite? I didn't see that in the player guide. Okay, okay. I'll sleep on it.

Re:Brotherhood of Silence - Looked them up, and it seems like it's a big player. I would start smaller, then perhaps move up. I'll think of something and give you my notes.

Re:Theme cards - I did some updates, see below.

If you can work with this, I will start adding details to the background.

I think I'll make my character in pf1e first and then try to convert it to the new system. So I know what I'm working with and also helps me think of story and character ideas outside crunch

@Apemantus - I like the detailed background and I'm curious what themes you decide to go with. My only question for right now is how that character ties into War for the Crown as opposed to any ohter AP. Although we aren't using the campaign traits, they're a useful guide as to how your character finds a 'hook' into the game - what campaign trait do you think your character would have taken if this was a Pathfinder game?

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So, I just hurriedly threw my first post together but it's basically an early rough draft of a character that will have a little bit from two previous PCs: The PC I played a bit in the Legends of the Mist game, and a little bit from a War for the Crown PbP that I played in several years ago that lasted about eight minutes before the DM quit.

I have to go back and read the 'Players' Guide' again to get a refresher --I know a Lady gives each of the PCs an invitation to a celebration and that's how we start. I will get to that asap.

The "Themes" of this amalgam of a PC will certainly give me as many Tags as possible for Bluff/gambits/guile and Lore/History/Political-Science and will based on the two old PCs:
ONE, a Reincarnation of an Evil Taldane (descendant of Arnisant) who, on his deathbed, truly repented and converted to Sarenrae -- but a little bit too late for Sarenrae to really trust him for a Celestial afterlife so is allowing his Reincarnation in order for him to have one more try to do something absolutely Epic for 'the cause of righteousness' and 'redemption.'
TWO, a minor, distantly-related noble who wants to purge Taldor of its decadent corruption, moral decay, and overall fall from Grace -- with an emphasis on Brining Back the worship of Sarenrae which should never have been lost.

I have to reread the 'Players' Guide', think about the character a bit more, and re-tackle Themes and Tags as this is still rather new to me.

But my first post with the, 'What-you-can-expect-from-me-as-a-player/player-style' holds.
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Because I am not 100% fluent in Legend of the Mist I am a tad squeamish in starting a full caster. Don't really *feel* this is a full warrior-like PC at all. Not really sure what direction for Real Crunch I will go. We'll see what others, my teammates, go for. But maybe some kind of Gish build.
Edit: ....Yeah, I could easily see this becoming a Gish. Looking at Magus (and Hexblade and Duskblade and Mage-Blade and all such).

@NotEspi - that works for me

@Seth86 - starting from PF and converting into LitM is sort of how I made my character for the game I was in, but it takes a lot of work. The systems are very different and I ended up dropping the idea.

@Apemantus - I agree that going full caster is a big ask of this game system. Having some backup combat Themes (gish caster) sounds like a good plan :)

Hmmm. Okay then.

I may have an idea then

Based off Khajiit

Trader Catfolk

Would that be good?

@Sarah the GM - it might be useful to link the other/previous LitM game’s Discussion/Recruitment threads for people to look at how anirtak (the GM) assisted those of us making characters and to explain themes/tags/quests etc…

@NotEspi

Would you mind if I used your format for a draft?

Hahah. What am I, Disney corp? Go ahead.

@Oceanshieldwolf - Some examples were linked here.

I'm going to find time today to reread the Players' Guide to get a couple campaign traits to help me get a fuller development of my applicant. (That's a challenge to myself)

Just being polite :)

So this is preliminary as I'm still new. But taking some ideas of others I've seen (NotEspi) I've gotten this so far

Should probably have some kind of combat/defense thing going too.

Bodyguard maybe?

People: Tricks of the Trade
Power: Trade routes
Power: Caravan
Weakness:
Quest:

Skill or Trade: Money Talks
Power: Bartering
Power: Greasing Palms
Weakness:
Quest:

Trait: Trader
Power: Appraisal
Power: Mathematical
Weakness:
Quest:

I briefly glanced at the Players' Guide just now and saw one thing I didn't know / and some stuff I had forgotten about but still fits perfectly!

One, it says worship of Sarenrae is no longer technically illegal. Um, just frowned upon especially by conservatives and old-school folk. It makes my Pro-Sarenrae theme a bit easier, yet, also a bit less epic. Of course, that's just peripheral canon -- the DM (or "Master of Ceremonies") may have a different perspective. Let me know.

And rereading the Traits and such I remembered that for my old PC I chose Disgraced Noble, Child of Oppara, & Taldane Patriot. And my starting Feat was Noble Scion with Vernisant bloodline -- almost certainly where I heard the name "Vernisant."

In this case, my PC's 'disgraced noble' bit is more because I'm a Reincarnated evil guy rather than one who publically disagreed with a certain politician. Probably look like a Tiefling! Combine that with my 'I love Sarenrae' and such, and I've made a PC whose presence in the group for this campaign seems a perfect fit.

What I do not Yet have is a good reason for Martella Lotheed to give me that invitation. .... I think maybe I need to know a little more about who she is. .... Maybe she likes Sarenrae? Maybe she likes House Vernisant and gave the Golden Ticket to a Vernisant noble in Merciful Bay (where I'm from) and I managed to be the one to get it? .... We can figure out an appropriate reason.
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Soon, I'll start working on my Themes and Tags.

I just need a bit more to learn of my character before I can really feel ready to think about Crunch (other than uber Bluff and maxed Lore).

Hi Sarah, I'd be interested in this if it's not too late to chime in. I haven't used the Mist system before, but it does sound like one that I'd like and take to well. War for the Crown is also a big draw for me.

I have a past attempt at WftC that valiantly struggled on to the start of Book 3 before folding. It might be my favorite Paizo AP.

I do have a couple of loose character concepts based on prior characterss I've made for the AP, and Investigator and a Witch. I'm not too concerned about the particular classes, But maybe one of them could work in terms of backstory, etc. I'll PM you about them.

@Oceanshieldwolf - good thought. Thanks :)

The previous recuirtment thread is HERE and the discussion thread is HERE. The GM in that game gave a good description of how the game is played, althugh they were working from an early copy of the game so some of the concepts have changed a bit in the final version.

@Seth86 - that looks good as a draft, keep it going and I will comment later. My only thought now is like I said to NotEspi, it's not clear to me how some of those Tags (Trade routs and Caravan in particular) would be used in gameplay and/or what you want to do with them. My next post will be a bit more about how Tags are used in the game, in case that helps.

@rdknight - hello! Hope you are doing well. It's definitely not too late to join in, we are still at a very early stage :)

@NotEspi - I'm going to take back something I said before, based on the words of a GM I gamed with - I would prefer you not use the "Qadiran scum" drawback. It means you literally only gain XP in that theme by having something racist happen to you and as the GM who has to make that happen, it's just going to depress the hell out of me.

HOW TAGS WORK IN THIS GAME

Tags are how you make something happen. If you use a Tag labelled "Swordplay" you are doing something fight-related. If the Tag you use is labelled "Athletic build" you are probably climbing or swimming or similar. If the Tag you use is labelled "Honeyed words" you are doing Diplomancy.

Tags exist as part of your Theme but can also come into play through the narrative, e.g. "Dark" which might be good or bad depending on what you want to do.

Let's assume that you are using two Tags: Stealthy and Cover, because there are lots of things you can hide behind in order to sneak up and eavesdrop on a conversation.

As the GM, I can let you do this in one of three possible ways

SIMPLE

I might say "Yes, those two tags are enough for you to get close and hear what they are saying. Here's what you overhear."

No dice roll, just invoke the Tags and get your reward.

QUICK

I might say "Yes, you can probably get close to them but let's see if you're spotted." Roll 2d6+2, because each Tag adds +1 to your roll.

(Someone in this thread used the word "synergy" and they are absolutely right, sometimes you will want more than 1 Tag for the same thing)

If you roll 10+ you overhear the conversation and get away without being spotted

If you roll a 7-9 you overhear the conversation but they spot you as you are leaving

If you roll a 6 or less they spot you before you have a chance to overhear.

DETAILED

I might say "Let's find out how much you can overhear before you have to move away."

In a Detailed roll, the number of Tags you throw down determines the Effect you get. Each Tag gives you +1 Power, so in this case the two Tags would let you overhear 2 things, let's say you learn that the mcguffin is being stored at the warehouse on Cheap Street and that it's due to be moved tomorrow evening.

You'd then roll as before, 2d6+2

If you roll 10+ you overhear the conversation without being spotted

If you roll 7-9 you overhear the conversation but they spot you as you leave

if you roll 6 or less they spot you and you don't learn either of the two things.

In addition to using Power to find out useful things (e.g. as a knowledge check to ID monsters) you can use 2 Power to create a new Tag (like using magic to create a Tag labelled "Concealing Fog" that other players can then use to help their actions). You can also use Power to inflict Statuses on people or things, e.g. Helpful-1 or Bleeding-2 or Discovered-2. Each 1 point of Power lets you give 1 point of Status.

This is a very condensed form of the rules so it won't do by itself but it should hopefully be a useful start.

@NotEspi - I'm going to take back something I said before, based on the words of a GM I gamed with - I would prefer you not use the "Qadiran scum" drawback. It means you literally only gain XP in that theme by having something racist happen to you and as the GM who has to make that happen, it's just going to depress the hell out of me.

Sure, not an issue. As long as I can still be Qadiran. ^_^

How about this. The bird likes to meander in the area, and I would need to go find it. Climb buildings, jump from roof to roof.

Acrobatic?

So how about this update on the companion card?

Echo (Kestrel)
Power: Linked Minds
Power: Acrobatic
Weakness: Roamer
Quest: "I should really train this bird more."

So I've done that thing I always do with a new game, which is theorycraft half a dozen different ideas and chasing the new shiny thing...

I'm still here and still interested, but it might take me another day or so to actually nail down a concept and present the themes for review.

@Apemantus - sorry, I missed your question earlier. Yes, Sarenrae worship is permitted but most people will wonder why you woship a foreign goddess when you could worship a god who's actually Taldan

@NotEspi - you can definitely be Qadiran and there'll always be some dick who makes an issue of it but not constantly. Your Themes look good but it woukdn't hurt to have a combat tag or two. This is mostly an intrigue based AP.

Mostly.

@Darkness Rising - haha yeah, I tgink we've all been there! You're not particularly behind everyone else so the next day or so is fine :)

Well, I had the same thought a few days back and added Back-Alley Brawling into the mix. So there is something there, but it's not a focus.

Oop I missed that, all good then!

Ah, wrestling with Themes, Tags, interpretations/synergies, Flavor & Crunch.

Hopefully soon I'll have a rough draft you can utterly dismantle and correct. ;)

But apart from that, you're mostly done? ;)

The Fate RPG has a tagline that character creation is gameplay. I'm not sure LitM goes that far but it's in the neighbourhood.

Alright. I got a minor lore dump. I will split it into sections. First, a name and a little visual. (Yeah, it's AI. I can't draw to save my life.)

And I guess that's my submission, maybe done? Let me know.

"There’s this house in Imperial Square. Find a way in, search for some important-sounding paperwork, probably hidden under floorboards or some other clichéd spot, bring it to me, get paid, and you’re set for life. Super easy, barely an inconvenience."

Wow wow wow. Wow.

My character Darrel Stavalos is ready for review.

STATUS CHECK

Expressed interest

Elbowtotheface
Archpaladin Zousha

Character still in progress

rdknight (some concepts sent via PM)

Seth86 unnamed character

Apemantus Oldcastle

Mostly complete

Shamsi al-Khay

Darrel Stavalos

I'm currently still trying to figure out what I want to do :P

Recently had the urge to create a rabbit character with a spouse