Okay, I've been having issue with the Auto Bonus Progression rules, and decided that what they really need, is a complete rewrite, so that it's more dynamic... a pick-n-choose system. The key here is remembering that we want to remove the 'must have' of items, the incrementally getting-better armor (Uh-oh, they reached a new level, their +1 should get to +2, so now to find a place to add that for everyone)... Because of this, and seeing that melee types all have certain things shared across all their lists (Boots of Speed), I'm creating something more modular that lets a player pick-n-choose.
First thing I've done is analyzed the player's equipment and wishlists... I see that with the exception of Wizard/Sorcerers, at least 67% of their wishes fall (in regards to Character Wealth by Level) into Resistance/ACs/weapons/stats/boots of speed/, rarely does anyone have more than 33% of their wishlist value as something other... Except Wizards who spend a lot on Wands (in my group) and at least 1 staff... (This is where the real problem lies... when people's gear needs to be more than the remaining wealth available).
So, I start out with 2/3 vs 1/3 (as opposed to the current ABP where your Character Wealth by Level is halved). 2/3rds of your value is in ABP and your character only gets 1/3rd...
Here's my initial thoughts for the ABP table... where we basically set the wealth per level to 1/3rd, and the other 2/3rds become points by dividing the remaining amount by 1,000... (KISS)
Level 02: 001 pts - Wealth: 500
Level 03: 002 pts - Wealth: 1,000
Level 04: 004 pts - Wealth: 2,000
Level 05: 007 pts - Wealth: 3,500
Level 06: 011 pts - Wealth: 5,000
Level 07: 016 pts - Wealth: 8,000
Level 08: 022 pts - Wealth: 11,000
Level 09: 030 pts - Wealth: 15,000
Level 10: 040 pts - Wealth: 21,000
Level 11: 055 pts - Wealth: 28,000
Level 12: 072 pts - Wealth: 36,000
Level 13: 094 pts - Wealth: 47,000
Level 14: 125 pts - Wealth: 62,000
Level 15: 160 pts - Wealth: 80,000
Level 16: 210 pts - Wealth: 100,000
Level 17: 275 pts - Wealth: 135,000
Level 18: 350 pts - Wealth: 180,000
Level 19: 450 pts - Wealth: 230,000
Level 20: 600 pts - Wealth: 300,000
Following that, there are the groupings.
The character receives a resistance bonus to all saving throws based on ABP points spent.
+1 resistance Prerequisites: none. Cost: 1 ABP Point
+2 resistance Prerequisites: +1 resistance. Cost: 3 ABP Points
+3 resistance Prerequisites: +2 resistance. Cost: 5 ABP Points
+4 resistance Prerequisites: +3 resistance. Cost: 7 ABP Points
+5 resistance Prerequisites: +4 resistance. Cost: 9 ABP Points
The character can attune herself to one suit of armor and one shield in her possession; she can change that attunement once per day. If she selects a normal set of clothing as her armor, it counts as having a starting enhancement bonus of +0. Attuning to a new piece of armor allocates all ABP points spent on armor enhancements to the newly attuned piece of armor (similarly for a shield). Note: A piece of armour's enhancement bonus can only go to +5 still, the additional levels are for additional weapon properties, such as 'fortification', which can only be purchased through ABP points. Other armor properties that have a static value comes out of the character's wealth, not ABP Points.
+1 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: attuned piece of armor or shield. Cost: 1 ABP Point
+2 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +1 enhancement bonus to this piece of attuned armor/shield. Cost: 3 ABP Points
+3 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +2 enhancement bonus to this piece of attuned armor/shield. Cost: 5 ABP Points
+4 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +3 enhancement bonus to this piece of attuned armor/shield. Cost: 7 ABP Points
+5 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +4 enhancement bonus to this piece of attuned armor/shield. Cost: 9 ABP Points
+6 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +5 enhancement bonus to this piece of attuned armor/shield. Cost: 11 ABP Points
+7 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +6 enhancement bonus to this piece of attuned armor/shield. Cost: 13 ABP Points
+8 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +7 enhancement bonus to this piece of attuned armor/shield. Cost: 15 ABP Points
+9 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +8 enhancement bonus to this piece of attuned armor/shield. Cost: 17 ABP Points
+10 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +9 enhancement bonus to this piece of attuned armor/shield. Cost: 19 ABP Points
The character can attune herself to any one weapon in her possession, and can change that attunement once per day. Attuning to a new weapon allocates all ABP points spent on weapon enhancements to the newly attuned weapon. Note: A weapon's enhancement bonus can only go to +5 still, the additional levels are for additional weapon properties, such as 'flaming', which can only be purchased through ABP points. Other weapon properties that have a static value comes out of the character's wealth, not ABP Points.
+1 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: attuned weapon. Cost: 2 ABP Point
+2 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +1 enhancement bonus to this attuned weapon. Cost: 6 ABP Points
+3 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +2 enhancement bonus to this attuned weapon. Cost: 10 ABP Points
+4 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +3 enhancement bonus to this attuned weapon. Cost: 14 ABP Points
+5 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +4 enhancement bonus to this attuned weapon. Cost: 18 ABP Points
+6 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +5 enhancement bonus to this attuned weapon. Cost: 22 ABP Points
+7 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +6 enhancement bonus to this attuned weapon. Cost: 26 ABP Points
+8 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +7 enhancement bonus to this attuned weapon. Cost: 30 ABP Points
+9 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +8 enhancement bonus to this attuned weapon. Cost: 34 ABP Points
+10 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +9 enhancement bonus to this attuned weapon. Cost: 38 ABP Points
The character gains an innate deflection bonus based on the ABP points spent.
+1 deflection bonus Prerequisites: none. Cost: 2 ABP Point
+2 deflection bonus Prerequisites: +1 deflection bonus. Cost: 6 ABP Points
+3 deflection bonus Prerequisites: +2 deflection bonus. Cost: 10 ABP Points
+4 deflection bonus Prerequisites: +3 deflection bonus. Cost: 14 ABP Points
+5 deflection bonus Prerequisites: +4 deflection bonus. Cost: 18 ABP Points
The character gains an innate deflection bonus based on the ABP points spent.
+1 natural armor bonus Prerequisites: none. Cost: 2 ABP Point
+2 natural armor bonus Prerequisites: +1 natural armor bonus. Cost: 6 ABP Points
+3 natural armor bonus Prerequisites: +2 natural armor bonus. Cost: 10 ABP Points
+4 natural armor bonus Prerequisites: +3 natural armor bonus. Cost: 14 ABP Points
+5 natural armor bonus Prerequisites: +4 natural armor bonus. Cost: 18 ABP Points
The character chooses an ability (Strength, Constitution or Dexterity for physical; Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma for mental) to be their primary ability. Raising that primary physical ability uses the following table for ABP point costs.
+2 Ability Score Prerequisite: none. Cost: 4 ABP Points.
+4 Ability Score Prerequisite: +2 reached in primary ability via ABP Points. Cost: 12 ABP Points.
+6 Ability Score Prerequisite: +4 reached in primary ability via ABP Points. Cost: 20 ABP Points.
Each additional +1 Prerequisite: +6 or higher reached in primary ability via ABP Points. Cost: 28 ABP Points.
The character's non-primary abilities can be raised using the following table for ABP point costs.
+2 Ability Score Prerequisite: Primary ability chosen. Cost: 6 ABP Points.
+4 Ability Score Prerequisite: +2 reached in secondary ability via ABP Points. Cost: 24 ABP Points.
+6 Ability Score Prerequisite: +4 reached in secondary ability via ABP Points. Cost: 54 ABP Points.
Each additional +1 Prerequisite: +6 or higher reached in secondary ability via ABP Points. Cost: 28 ABP Points.
For 12 ABP Points, the character may act as though affected by a haste spell for up to 10 rounds each day. This haste effect's duration need not be consecutive rounds.
NOTE: I'm looking for advise here, not suggesting that others use this rule system... Are there other 'common' items that should be added, so half the party don't all need the same item? In our group, half the characters have a Ring of Sustenance, but not sure that should apply (and the idea that there are a lot of these so the rulers of starving countries are always 'comfortable' can make sense), but most lose them for better rings at higher levels. Also... any suggestions for that Wizard/Sorcerer type that doesn't want their 'wealth' wasted on weapons/ac/etc? That want a powerful Staff, a bag-of-holding filled with Wands and Metamagic Rods, etc? I feel like for those, I'll have to let them go without the ABP entirely, making them really 'wealthy', but hard to thematically justify why there's so much loot specifically for them... :P
Forgot to take into account Amulet of the Mighty Fist:
The character gains an enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls with unarmed attacks and all natural weapons.
+1 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: None. Cost: 4 ABP Point
+2 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +1 enhancement bonus to natural weapons. Cost: 8 ABP Points
+3 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +2 enhancement bonus to natural weapons. Cost: 20 ABP Points
+4 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +3 enhancement bonus to natural weapons. Cost: 28 ABP Points
+5 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +4 enhancement bonus to natural weapons. Cost: 36 ABP Points
+6 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +5 enhancement bonus to natural weapons. Cost: 44 ABP Points
+7 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +6 enhancement bonus to natural weapons. Cost: 52 ABP Points
+8 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +7 enhancement bonus to natural weapons. Cost: 60 ABP Points
+9 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +8 enhancement bonus natural weapons. Cost: 68 ABP Points
+10 enhancement bonus Prerequisites: +9 enhancement bonus to natural weapons. Cost: 76 ABP Points
Yeah, this just takes us back to one of the inherent problems APB was trying to fix. the issue was a player would spend ALL of his WBL on his weapon, maxing it out before moving onto maxing out his armor. instead APB forces things to build evenly, and nothing gets a huge focus.
Your system goes back to this, allowing a character to put all of his ABP points into a single item/place, maxing it out, while letting the other categories not advance at all.
My solution has the same issue Sam brought up, but it's simpler to just use both regular magic items and ABP together. You just have to forbid the stacking of such, which is mostly already covered by the rules regarding bonus stacking. As for weapons and armor, you just say that applying ABP to them temporarily overrides their own bonuses and bonus-based special qualities.
Adding ABP in this way is also a lot easier to run in an AP or module, where you don't want to modify half of the loot.
Yeah, this just takes us back to one of the inherent problems APB was trying to fix. the issue was a player would spend ALL of his WBL on his weapon, maxing it out before moving onto maxing out his armor. instead APB forces things to build evenly, and nothing gets a huge focus.
Your system goes back to this, allowing a character to put all of his ABP points into a single item/place, maxing it out, while letting the other categories not advance at all.
Actually, as a GM, that was never my problem (Since I don't let a player create their own inventory). I use the ABP system because I don't want 6 Cloaks of Resistance +1, followed by finding 6 Cloaks of Resistance +2, etc... and having 6 Rings of Protection +1 (and Amulet of Natural Armour +1), followed by (repeat ad-nauseum).
By having a system that inherently gives the bonuses that the encounters expect the heroes to have, you avoid having to plant items just so they meet the basic standards. That being said, there is validity in the realization that someone might put all their ABP Points into a single item (Like said weapon).
That, and the current ABP system is a bit broken, as it assumes such things as there being a +5 limit to stats via tomes, of a character with multiple natural attacks having to buy each one separately (though I can see how that would be broken in the other direction as well, potentially), etc... things that the non-ABP system allows for, but which were curtailed in the ABP system...
And not everyone wants it spread out. Personally, I don't think any of my players would put more than 50% of their wealth into a single item, especially since you want to spend those points right away... at level up.
But, let's do the math (this is me 'thinking aloud' really):
Swashbuckler wants a +1 Agile Keen Rapier. That's 18 ABP points, attainable at level 8, with 4 pts to spare (so +1 Resistance, +2 AC). The more balanced Paladin has what at that point? +1 Keen Falchion (10 ABP Points), leaving 12 for +2 Resistance (5 pts), +3 AC (5 + 2 pts)? Seems okay at that point...
Perhaps higher levels? Let's try a +5 Agile Keen Rapier (96 ABP Points), so level 14 minimum? Even that seems fair... not seeing the problem?
Actually, as a GM, that was never my problem (Since I don't let a player create their own inventory). I use the ABP system because I don't want 6 Cloaks of Resistance +1, followed by finding 6 Cloaks of Resistance +2, etc... and having 6 Rings of Protection +1 (and Amulet of Natural Armour +1), followed by (repeat ad-nauseum).By having a system that inherently gives the bonuses that the encounters expect the heroes to have, you avoid having to plant items just so they meet the basic standards. That being said, there is validity in the realization that someone might put all their ABP Points into a single item (Like said weapon).
We play in a semi magic rich world, and allow crafting and shopping. With those thoughts in place, it's pretty easy for the party to sell anything and everything a GM drops, and buy/craft what they want. I personally hate playing is games that are so magic poor that the only magic I ever get is what little the GM dribbles out.
and I like the APB system, it does what it is meant to do, and I like how it builds in a balanced method, instead of allowing total focus in one item or ability.
Your deflection numbers clash with existing biased pricing guidelines.
How so? They're based on Ring of Protection levels...
First: noticed a typo in the Natural Weapons cost, level II should be 12 points, not 6.
Well, I had our group try this system out (the one I play in, not the one I GM), and it had a 100% success rate. I'm guessing that the ney-sayers didn't bother to try it out, which is fine, it's up to the homebrewer to run the hard tests, but it's solid. The most agreed upon reason that the players liked this better was that ABP is the direction of 4E, no flexibility... Pathfinder was supposed to go in the opposite direction. Here is a list of the 12th level character purchases, followed by what it would have been via ABP (Note: mine includes the overly common Boots of Speed, so disparity expected):
Paladin: Haste (10 rnds per day), +4 Strength, +3 Resists, +3 Weapon, +1 Natural AC, +1 Deflection, +3 AC (4 pts left over).
** Basically, sacrificed the mental enhancement to get Haste and +1 on weapon and AC.
Monk: Haste (10 rnds per day), +0 Agile Shocking Natural Attacks, +4 Dex, +3 Resist, +3 AC, +2 Natural AC, +1 Deflection.
** Hard to compare since he can now have boosts on all his natural attacks, which as a Catfolk Monk with claw/claw/bite/gore(mammoth helm) made for a happier monk.
Kineticist (Me): +5 Resist, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +4 AC, +2 Natural AC, +2 Deflection (5 pts left over).
** What need have I for weapon enhancements? Or Mental? Was nice being able to get Con and Dex, and up my resists.
Mesmerist: +5 Resist, +6 Charisma, +2 AC, +1 Natural AC, +1 Deflection. (3 pts left over)
** He is good at avoiding combat, just wanted a high charisma and resist... then the remaining points dumped into ACs.
Druid: +1 Wild AC, +1 Agile Natural Attacks, +3 Resist, +2 Natural AC, +1 Deflection.
** Wearing armour sooner, and gets agile on all her naturals, happier player.
Then, the Druid wanted to see how it would look on her Cipher Investigator: +4 Int, +2 Dex, +5 Resist, +3 AC, +2 Deflection, +2 Natural AC, 2 pts remaining.
** The only character to do a mental and physical... Sacrificed weapon enhancements for more Resist.
The Ranger wasn't there this weekend, so can't show his... But here's the 'default' of ABP:
+4 to 1 Physical, +4 to 1 mental, +3 Resistance, +1 Natural Armour, +2 Deflection, AC and Weapon.
All players are happier, GM doesn't object because the end result for him is the same (he doesn't have to make sure to keep handing out required gear, and if players get unbalanced, that's called a 'flaw' in his book).
Not saying it's not abusable... maybe it is... personally, as a GM, if someone went all-in on weapon enhancement (64 of those 72 pts), I don't see a problem.
so it looks like it did exactly what I predicted it would.
I see a focus in one or two things on each character. The mesmerist is the one most obvious
+5 resist (2 above ABP), +6 Charisma (2 above APB), +4 AC (1 above APB)
and considering Haste is one of the most powerful spells in the game, I would never have allowed it to be picked up.
Again, the goal isn't (nor should be) to prevent focus. It's to keep multiple of the same objects being in-game. At 12th level, melee types having Boots of Speed is pretty common as a selection for a magic item, it's not breaking anything. At 12th level, without ABP, all of the stat items for what 'focus' they had, could have been bought. Nothing broken with that.
There's nothing wrong with focus. Let a player be the character they envision and build the story around that... That's a bit like complaining that a Zen Archer is focused on the bow...
ABP let's everyone have a Cloak of Resist, a Ring of AC, an Amulet of Natural Armour, etc... without having mirroring inventories. Hence the boots being added in my version, to prevent that Boots of Speed are the most common items in the game. Thematically, it's that a body can have about 10 rounds of "adrenaline surge" per day...
Again, the goal isn't (nor should be) to prevent focus. It's to keep multiple of the same objects being in-game. At 12th level, melee types having Boots of Speed is pretty common as a selection for a magic item, it's not breaking anything. At 12th level, without ABP, all of the stat items for what 'focus' they had, could have been bought. Nothing broken with that.
There's nothing wrong with focus. Let a player be the character they envision and build the story around that... That's a bit like complaining that a Zen Archer is focused on the bow...
ABP let's everyone have a Cloak of Resist, a Ring of AC, an Amulet of Natural Armour, etc... without having mirroring inventories. Hence the boots being added in my version, to prevent that Boots of Speed are the most common items in the game. Thematically, it's that a body can have about 10 rounds of "adrenaline surge" per day...
Shrug, we got tired of players have a 42 armor class, a +40 or better to hit, and +30 or better saving throws, so focus was one of the things we wanted to reduce. of course YMMV.
I kinda get where you're coming from, but to me, it doesn't make any sense at all, what I'm reading from you....
ABP is the only way to get those numbers, if you're a GM that doesn't like those numbers. Without ABP, nobody can get those numbers unless you, as the GM, put these items in the game... Prior to ABP, only a couple of players had a +5 Cloak of Resistance in our games, and ABP 'fixed' it so we could all have one without even taking a cloak slot...
If you don't want a player to have a +40 to hit, don't put a +5 Falchion in the game... go back to old school... you want a +5 weapon, it's a Longsword... the GM decides what's in the game... ABP takes that away.
My ABP just lets players have control, as the default one favors a basic fighter/rogue type, where you want a +5 weapon, +5 Armour, etc... and removes forced expenditure into areas that a character has no interest (such as a +5 weapon for a wizard type) or screwing characters that have a non-conformity type (Someone with 5 or 6 natural attacks).
Also, and I realize this may just be me... but I feel the Homebrew and House Rules thread are to share ideas, and either allow for constructive criticism (how to improve the house rule), or to help balance it... I find it rude that people come on here and just state that they don't like the idea, throwing negativity instead of help. If you don't like a houserule, don't use it... no need to broadcast to everyone, calling it a bad thing when there's nothing bad about it.
Okay, my GM asked me to include "Comfort Mithral" into my version of the ABP system, because half of the characters use Mithral Comfort Breastplate, and the Paladin uses Mithral Comfort Full Plate.
It complicates things a bit because each 'type' of armor (light medium and heavy) are at different costs... But I was thinking, this could apply to any 'common' armor/weapon properties that have static values. After all, it's a 100cg to 1 ABP (round up) pt ratio....
Tempered Armor
Tempered Armor alters the skill penalties of the armor type by -3, alters the max dex of the armor type by +2, and alters the chance of spell failure of the armor type by -10%. If the character changes their armor attunement, this only carries over if value paid for the tempered armor would cover the cost of having the newly attuned armor tempered. Note: This replaces Mithral and does not stack with the benefits of Mithral Armor.
ABP Cost: Light Armor: 1point. Medium Armor: 4 points. Heavy Armor: 9 points.
Comfort
As the Comfort Property for Armors.
ABP Cost: 5 pts