DM Fang Dragon's: War for the Crown

Game Master FangDragon

I think just before we opened the door Trip heard someone casting and reacted as in her post.

Exactly. The door is unlocked which was noisy enough to alert something in the room. When the door is opened (or relocked for that matter) is up to you.

Whether the door is open or closed is up to Lope at the moment.

I vote for Cyrene's idea. We're in no hurry. 10 minutes? If it casts it again, so be it.

There's no reason to not wait, so let's wait.

I propose Cyrene and Trip open the doors (and stand out of the way). Julia and Lope lead the way in and Pelligrina stands back to take pot-shots.

Sounds good.

Sorry for the delay, it's got late and I'm tired. Will move us forwards tomorrow.

Is this the first we've run into rats as enemies?

Happy Holidays Everyone!

Happy holidays everyone!

Valaria I'm pretty sure I've seen rat swarms in another game but they seem kinda rare.

I meant rats in general in this campaign. No biggie.

That encounter could have gone much worse if Cyrene hadn't grappled the rat and kept him from getting out of reach. Smart play.

She's good at killing people (and lucky with her dice rolls!).

Full credit to Julia too - that hideous laughter gave Cyrene the time to grapple him in the first place.

Well played team!

Sorry folks no update tonight, caught my wife's cold and I'm having an early night.

Take care Fang Dragon! :)

Feel better FD!

Get better and the time you need!

Feeling a bit better today!

I do not like the position this puts Triphylla, and a decision I do not want to be forced to make.

Fortunately I have a decent sense motive. Just waiting on others to get posts in before I do again.

I hate this turn of events. PM me when it's over.

That's unfortunate. The AP as written describes them as hired killers, worshipers of Norberger. If group wants to nope out of halfling killers it's not too late to retcon.

It's impossible for Triphylla to know that and since she's failing all her rolls it simply appears as though Cyrene just tried to attack a member of her tribe unprovoked. (Not to mention Cyrene just referred to them as "children" which is terribly demeaning) Triphylla will intervene on behalf of the halflings, whom she rightly sees are true victims of Taldan oppression. The alternative is to metagame it. Not good options.

It's impossible for Triphylla to know that and since she's failing all her rolls it simply appears as though Cyrene just tried to attack a member of her tribe unprovoked. (Not to mention Cyrene just referred to them as "children" which is terribly demeaning) Triphylla will intervene on behalf of the halflings, whom she rightly sees are true victims of Taldan oppression. The alternative is to metagame it. Not good options.

OOC: sorry about that.

IC: Cyrene's been making all the rolls (apart from the one to actually hit someone) so she's deliberately trying to provoke them. Hence the 'children' comment.

Yeah, I mean this is just a tough spot for the party halfling to be in without any information. The optics are really bad and we're on a pathway to internal conflict. Triphylla has to see Cyrene as the aggressor, and where do we go from there? This is a red card moment in the AP.

Imistos would gleefully welcome the strife, it would make his job so much easier.

Outside of book 1 halfling killers isn't a big theme and to be honest it's very far from the focus of the AP. As far as this book goes, in his madness Grand Prince Stavian hired the cult of Norberger to indulge themselves. I could say more, but I don't want to spoil things and I also don't want this to derail the campaign.

I have an idea for plan B for this scene but I'm open to suggestions.

Cyrene did roll a 1 so her attack missed by some way. Could Trip see it as her simply putting a blade between the halflings and the nobles and have a "what the hell?!?!" kinda moment?

Otherwise we can retcon Cyrene's actions if that'd be better?

I completely missed that Cyrene attacked when I posted. It might be that I can add an additional post and help resolve things.

No, I'm fine myself.

Pelligrina is concerned though. Whatever the specifics of future assignments may be, they will be taking place among Taldor's upper crust. They are both enemies and friends, and it won't always be clear who is who. If Triphylla is all about class warfare all the time, it will be alienating to all of them, friend or foe, right out of the gate. Usually that will be very very bad. Pelligrina, and presumably everyone else, will be spending a lot of time mitigating or undoing damage just to get back to even, and it will make for a hard road ahead.

Now Pelligrina doesn't care a whit whether Triphylla hates every last single member of Taldor's aristocracy to her core, not her business. But if Triphylla can't mask it and be civil or at least not antagonize them, she's a handicap and a liability.

So yeah, Pelligrina has her eye on Triphylla because she thinks she's trouble.

I can have fun with some character conflict, it can really spice things up and keep RP alive. But I do want to be clear about why it's happening here. Pelligrina just doesn't care about Triphylla on a personal level. This is a professional dispute for her, about what excellent work looks like and what it takes to succeed.

I said this a while back in the last similar situation that came up. I'll say it again in a less roundabout way.

I've played this AP through Book 2. I would not recommend a Paladin at all for this AP. Paladins have a code and alignment which compels certain actions and reactions in given circumstances whether they are the best solution to the situation at hand or not.

Triphylla is finding herself in similar binds. I think there are other possible reactions to the current situation aside from immediate violence based on a snap judgement. My opinion is that Triphylla doesn't need to change what she thinks, but she does need to have more flexibility and moderation in how she acts and reacts.

This is a political intrigue AP. We will find ourselves having to smile and shake hands with people we don't like, and who probably don't like us, to pursue the bigger goals. Our characters are playing a long game, which means we'll need to let some smaller things slide, even if it's uncomfortable, along the way.

If every instance for Triphylla is about upholding halfling dignity or antagonizing aristocrats without concern for future costs, we are going to see a lot of unnecessary grief.

Let's just stop Cyrene so the other group has the chance to do their thing and show their real intentions.

Imistos would gleefully welcome the strife, it would make his job so much easier.

Outside of book 1 halfling killers isn't a big theme and to be honest it's very far from the focus of the AP. As far as this book goes, in his madness Grand Prince Stavian hired the cult of Norberger to indulge themselves. I could say more, but I don't want to spoil things and I also don't want this to derail the campaign.

I have an idea for plan B for this scene but I'm open to suggestions.

Since it seems to be a bit of a one-off, I'd like to skip it and move on. Is that door unlocked yet?

Let's just stop Cyrene so the other group has the chance to do their thing and show their real intentions.

If that's the consensus, fine. :) I'm going to bed now so I won't post for at least another 8 hours. I'll check in in the morning, see what's happening and post accordingly.

When a situation occurs where suddenly a play intervention must occur because a character has decided PvP is inevitable without one, I know I'm in the wrong place.

I've been weighing it for a while now, and I've decided I will be bowing out of this campaign. It's been fun, and I appreciate the really fine work you've done as GM Fang Dragon. Have a good campaign everyone!

Just saw Lope's post. He's giving them an out. Realistically, unless these halflings are really confident in their abilities, or just really dumb, they can't think they'll win this. And they're hired killers, meaning surviving to reap the reward is important. Imistos knows that Stavian is dead, so how does he expect to get paid? If Triphylla was wise to their play she'd be telling them all of this. Imistos could have tried to sell Triphylla harder on the idea and then she'd know.

FWIW Plan B is for them rob the nobles instead and to turn some of the later NPCs into humans.

I've been weighing it for a while now, and I've decided I will be bowing out of this campaign.

I would ask you to reconsider but it sounds like you've thought about this :( Than you for playing.

It's pretty well known that the majority of PbP games die in the first book (usually early) usually with the GM going AWOL. That certainly wasn't something I anticipated happening to one of my games but frankly this situation is rather demotivating.

I think I need a day collect my thoughts.

Reading up on Norgorber, I see that halflings tend to follow the Gray Master: "Most halfling cultists favour the aspect of Norgorber known as the Gray Master... Followers of the Gray Master vary from violent gangs to nearly legitimate organizations, and conceal themselves with pieces of gray or black cloth that hide their faces below their eyes."

Given the prevalence and importance of wearing masks, I think it's impossible we could have known these halflings were members of the cult, since they are not adhering to type. Had they worn cloth to hide their faces, Triphylla would have fingered them instantly given her ties to the Brotherhood of Silence. In lieu of all that, Imistos can plainly see Triphylla is a vivisectionist and her disposition is decidedly anti-nobility. Why not reveal himself fully to her? The problem has been the setup. It's nothing we cannot recover from quickly.

The way I would run this, GM, if I were in your shoes, is to have Imistos appeal to Triphylla one more time but to be forthright with his allegiance or motivation. It was too easy to dismiss his ambiguous ranting as simple foolishness. They can be plan A killers, and as long as she understands who they are she can make an appropriate decision on how to intervene. She will definitely not align herself with the cult.

I know this adve ture quite well so I hope the GM will forgive me when I say that these halflings don't actually worship Norgorber but Thalmor Gixx, the halfling god of murder and revenge. So the whole masks thing doesn't and shouldn't apply.

Regardless, there are probably ways of fixing this but I will confess the incident is leaving a sour taste in my mouth too which is a shame as I've been enjoying the game until now.

Well, no fair. Seems like half the party knew this was coming. The joke's on me.

I don't think there's a 'joke' as such, it just so happens that the AP is written with a bunch of halfling assassins in book 1. The fact that you made a halfling with anti-nobility views is pure coincidence. I know I've certainly played characters who have ended up being unexpectedly (in)appropriate to the themes of the game, without having an idea beforehand.

Just one of those things that happens, and besides, how would characters grow without some conflict to work through?

I agree with Cyrene here, this isn't a joke on you Triphylla. What you probably didn't realised is most of the regulars on this forum have played books 1-2 in 10+ APs. A lot of them have been here for over a decade and 'know' each other, and that's a good part of why it's so hard to get picked. Also if you make a submission for every single game going, after a while you get rather good at it.

As far as the pickle we find ourselves in goes, a lot of the blame is mine because I selected y'all and I didn't realise this was going to be such a problem. I deliberately chose a group that was likely to have some internal friction in the hope of sparking interesting role play.

I've noticed Triphylla getting frustrated by d20 rolls. I think we've all been there, having written a masterpiece only to roll a 3. I don't have much experience with non d20 systems, but I'm aware there's a lot of other games out there. Systems like Fate and Blades in the Dark sound quite intriguing. I've no idea how they'd work out for PbP - does anyone have any expirence?

I agree with Cyrene here, this isn't a joke on you Triphylla. What you probably didn't realised is most of the regulars on this forum have played books 1-2 in 10+ APs. A lot of them have been here for over a decade and 'know' each other, and that's a good part of why it's so hard to get picked. Also if you make a submission for every single game going, after a while you get rather good at it.

For myself there's only 2 Paizo AP's I haven't played or read at least once, which is why I rarely submit to PF1 games anymore unless I get a really fun idea (like the Nocticulian anti-misogyny assassin!).

@FangDragon: I agree with the issues in posting speed. I often find that larger parties have it harder too, because more people means more waiting and more loose ends to deal with, as well as more combat posts.

Would it perhaps be better to handwave the rest of this particular section? Getting everyone out of the senate will give us some space, a bit more room to RP and some less pressure. It's just one fight and then people can air grievances/steal noble's trousers/whatever they feel like they need to do? Then you can make any sensible adjustments you think are needed for the next section of the AP.

I certainly don't mind missing out on a single fight and it might help get the pace/RP get going a bit more because we've been quite constrained so far, simply by space and/or the plot.

Is that a sensible solution?

Yeah, I am far too familiar with dice hating me. I almost always play spellcasters because I get to make the DM do most of the dice rolling (and I like the whole magic thing).

Dungeon crawls tend to slow things even more in pbp since you often have to wait on specific people to do things before moving on. Honestly this one has had much more to RP with than most I've experienced and that is a good thing.

Proposal: I narrate a non-combat resolution for this and move the party outside onto the next section of book 1.

Please vote for this: Yes or No

If everyone agrees then that is what will happen, if not then lets discuss further.

@Pelligrina if this proposal passes and it changes your mind then that's perfectly OK by me, but I will respect your decision if it does not.

YES

I am good with this, I vote Yes.

I know I've certainly played characters who have ended up being unexpectedly (in)appropriate to the themes of the game, without having an idea beforehand.

I've certainly had this come up with characters of mine as well. Probably everyone has at one time or another. When it has, I've found ways to make small modifications or alterations so my character is compatible with the game. It's not difficult and I consider it the least I can do to help out the party and make sure things run smoothly.

Yeah, I am far too familiar with dice hating me. I almost always play spellcasters because I get to make the DM do most of the dice rolling...

I've done the same thing. My full caster characters can get by much better on the dozen or so d20 rolls over a 10 each month the roller bot allocates to me.

@Pelligrina if this proposal passes and it changes your mind then that's perfectly OK by me, but I will respect your decision if it does not.

It doesn't matter to me how this encounter gets dealt with. The immediate problem might be solved, but the underlying issue is still there. I'm not interested in triaging parts of the AP whenever something clashes with a character who has decided to elevate a particular agenda to pursue over the content and themes of the AP or the needs of the party and other players. It's a headache I don't want or need, and simply enough it's not fun.

I appreciate the offer Fang Dragon, and I want to emphasize this has absolutely nothing to do with you. You're doing a fantastic job running the game. I won't be coming back to the campaign.

I vote Yes.

As for getting frustrated with rolls - don't we all? I'm frustrated now because I feel like I don't have any good options because I've missed a couple rolls. And I think that generally dicebot is the enemy of good rp and a lazy gamer's best friend. That being said, every one of us is challenged by rl and can benefit from a quick skill check to keep things moving. I have previously mentioned that in my own games I put good rp ahead of the need to succeed at a check. I know a few gms that do likewise and many others that do not.

I've played Fate here and it is fantastic as long as you have the right players. You want people who indulge in walls of text and think well outside the box. Fate would be great for this style of campaign.

Never gotten to play FATE before. I've gotten into a few Dresden Files based FATE games over on RPOL but the DM's inevitably disappear or have to pull out for IRL reasons before the game even really starts.

Savage Worlds is another system where players are allowed a small amount of leeway to change the story. I've been playing a fair amount of that system recently and it's flexible.

I started playing D&D in 1984 and I've played more systems than I can remember. Seems like Vampire: the Masquerade and the related Mage systems also gave players some of the story crafting responsibility. Only in the past two years have I played Pathfinder pbp. I was hesitant because I would read the recruitment threads and see how familiar most of you are already with the stories. I'm too old to be made to feel like a noob. For the most part that hasn't happened but I've been reminded here of the value of foresight. If there are others in the group who wonder, Why is this character doing X when Y is about to happen and Z happens two books later on, it's because I am blissfully ignorant of the future. And while I voted yes to hand wave this section, I feel I've gone the extra mile to provide ideas for how Triphylla can act in context without making her into something she's not.

I'll add that I have no problem whatsoever with the halfling assassin storyline, only the specific mechanics of this situation. I'm not holding the future story hostage.