D20 Modern base classes

I've been playing several games of D20 Modern recently and it seems to me that the core classes are not well balanced. Most (combatant) characters cherry pick fast and tough until they're ready to go off into an advanced class. Dedicated seems to be a decent enough class and charismatic works well for social. That leaves strong with an ok set of talents and smart.

The smart hero talents feel like they're lacking in application so here's four of my own for review. Any other game balance suggestions for the core classes would be welcome as well.

Cobble - The Smart hero can assemble a working device with only the most basic tools and materials. The device will function 1d6 (secret DM roll) times at 25% less effectiveness than a standard device of that type. It does not look pretty and will spark alarmingly if appropriate.

Prerequisites - Savant (choosing the appropriate craft skill) or five ranks in the appropriate craft skill.

Trivia - The Smart hero has a wide range of seemingly useless facts. These are represented by one rank in three separate knowledge skills, enough to perform a check as trained.

Encyclopedic Knowledge - The Smart hero has a deep understanding of a subject. He can make one Knowledge at five ranks higher than he has the skill or Research check per day using only memorized facts based on one knowledge score.

Prerequisites - Savant (choosing the knowledge skill used for the check) or five ranks in the appropriate
knowledge.

Intuit function - The Smart hero has an understanding of the workings of machines. If he can disassemble the machine far enough to see it's inner workings he can analyze it and use the basic functions (fire a strange weapon, turn on/off a machine, drive/fly a strange vehicles, etc.). This applies to alien or other technology no more than 2 PL's higher than the character's.

Prerequisites - Savant (choosing the appropriate craft skill), Knowledge Technology (7) or Craft (5) in the appropriate field.

I never really liked the 6 base classes of modern anyway. Seems sort of like a cheap easy way out of it. No other modern based game has used attributes as their classes that I am aware of. And playing a Strong Class just leaves a crappy feeling.

Teacher stands before class: "What do you want to be when you grow up, Johnny?"
Johnny thinks a few moments then grunts out "I wanna be a Strong Class."
The class laughs uproarously at him.

You know I work in HR right now and we never have job placement for Strong or Fast jobs.

I LIKE the 6 base classes of D20 Modern. The classes are very setting neutral, and with all the starting occupations, you can really customize a level 1 character.

A construction worker might be a Strong Hero with the Blue Collar starting occupation. A bicycle messenger might be a Fast Hero with the Adventurer or Athlete starting occupation.

I agree that there should be more talent trees, especially for the Smart and Fast classes. The others have 3 trees, but Smart and Fast only have 2. For Fast, I would add a Sharp Shooting Talent tree that gave a cumulative +1 bonus on ranged attacks. For Smart, something to do with their skills, especially if they branched them out into Crafty skills (Craft and Repair), Sabetour or Tricksy skills (Demolitions and Disable Device, maybe Computer Use and Forgery and Search), and Learning skills (Investigate, Knowledge, Research, maybe Computer Use).

I think you have a problem with your Trivia Talent. I could be mistaken, I don't have my books with me tonight. The reason being(if I remember correctly) is that anyone can attempt a check on an untrained Knowledge skill, although they're only capable of knowing something with a DC of 10 or lower, which is considered common knowledge.

Example: a layman knows that a vampire is destroyed by driving a stake through its heart. A character with a rank of 12{modified by INT} in KNOW-Religion knows that Vampires are merely rendered inert, not slayed.

I'd suggest that you alter it so that the Trivia Talent allows that character to treat all Knowledge skills as Class Skills and Trained with five ranks; this allows the character to reach a DC of 15. Any Knowledge skills that the character has actively invested in use those ranks, if higher.

This allows the character to know more than the average person in many fields, while only allowing specialization in in a few.

Of course, this is all if I'm remembering things correctly. I admit that I could be failing my Knowledge(d20 Rules) check.

I think you have a problem with your Trivia Talent. I could be mistaken, I don't have my books with me tonight. The reason being(if I remember correctly) is that anyone can attempt a check on an untrained Knowledge skill, although they're only capable of knowing something with a DC of 10 or lower, which is considered common knowledge.

I checked the rules here and we're both right. The skill is trained only, but without the knowledge skill it's just an int roll, which this would end up being. I'm just trying to keep the talent balanced by not adding more of a bump to the skill. Perhaps this is offset by the limited number of times per day?

I kind of like the concept, but the names turn me off. I haven't played d20 Modern yet, and am waiting for a copy of Spycraft d20 and Mutants and Masterminds to compare classes. Who knows, I may actually resurrect an old Top Secret game if none of them appeal.

I've actually been working on some updates to the D20 Modern classes and Talent myself for a while, and the project is starting to take on a life of it's own now. I could post my re-vamped Smart Hero here if anyone is interested (it'll have to wait until I can get home, though).

I've actually been working on some updates to the D20 Modern classes and Talent myself for a while, and the project is starting to take on a life of it's own now. I could post my re-vamped Smart Hero here if anyone is interested (it'll have to wait until I can get home, though).

I'd love to see anything you have on revamping the d20 system. I think with a few minor tweaks, and one or two major ones *cough* wealth system *cough* it could easily be improved.

Okay, here's a quick like to my update/conversion of the Smart Hero: http://clockworkamazon.com/SmartHero.pdf

First of all, I want to state flat-out that the basic template was lifted from the D20 Modern SRD over at http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/modern/smack/srdhome.html His formatting is very nice and I just copy-pasted the existing class to start with. Also, many of the Talents in it are either tweaks from the original Smart Hero, or imports from Saga Edition Star Wars.

Finally, I made some fundamental changes to the game, including:
-Fractional bonuses to BAB and AC, to encourage mutliclassing
-Inclusion of Saga-style "Defenses" instead of saves (easy enough to swap out if you prefer saves; I keep going back and forth), though with AC being separate from Reflex Defence.
-Modified skill list, compressing things like Spot and Listen into Perception, ect. Essentially using the Pathfinder skill list
-Including the Pathfinder concept of CMB, rather than the various and sundry sub-rules.
-A re-vamp of the Occupation system, where a character's Occupation now provides the majority of their Class Skills. I don't have any typed up, but the basic concept is that every Occupation provides: 10 class skills, one bonus feat, a wealth and/or reputation bonus, and a list of three Talent Trees, from which the character can pick one to always be a "Class Tree"

I think the modern classes were balanced when they were created as a re-write of the treatment Wizards gave Call of Cthulu, a game in which PCs research, investigation, and long-range weaponry skills are vital to their survival. The "Shadow Chasers" campaign model is essentially Call of Cthulu draped in Buffy-drag to ward off parental concern. If you don't play that style of game, the books-guy and guns-guy can seem a bit lacking. I think Smart Heroes could use a (Bard-like) odd knowledge Talent tree, and Fast Heroes could use a Driving/Piloting Talent tree.

I haven't played d20 Modern yet, and am waiting for a copy of Spycraft d20 and Mutants and Masterminds to compare classes.

I've done test-runs of both Spycraft (2e) and Mutants & Masterminds (1e), and I think d20 Modern fits right between them in many ways. Spycraft is good for players that like cruching through lots and lots of mechanics. Mutants & Masterminds is on the other end of the complexity spectrum; it's simple, fast, and fun for people who want to get right to the action. It doesn't really have classes. Both games are well-suited to their respective genres; the Espionage genre is all about technical details and intricate planning, while the Superhero genre is about epic battles that don't track hit points.

Spycraft = the most recent Bourne or Batman movies
Mutants & Masterminds = SpiderMan or classic Bond
d20 Modern = Big Trouble in Little China

I kind of like the concept, but the names turn me off. I haven't played d20 Modern yet, and am waiting for a copy of Spycraft d20 and Mutants and Masterminds to compare classes. Who knows, I may actually resurrect an old Top Secret game if none of them appeal.

I am actually setting out to convert the Spycraft classes to d20 Modern. I want to run an A-Team meets James Bonds meets the X-Files kind of game, and I think d20 Modern using the Spycraft classes would be perfect.

I've done test-runs of both Spycraft (2e) and Mutants & Masterminds (1e), and I think d20 Modern fits right between them in many ways. Spycraft is good for players that like cruching through lots and lots of mechanics. Mutants & Masterminds is on the other end of the complexity spectrum; it's simple, fast, and fun for people who want to get right to the action. It doesn't really have classes. Both games are well-suited to their respective genres; the Espionage genre is all about technical details and intricate planning, while the Superhero genre is about epic battles that don't track hit points.

Spycraft = the most recent Bourne or Batman movies
Mutants & Masterminds = SpiderMan or classic Bond
d20 Modern = Big Trouble in Little China

Evocative summary. I like. Mutants & Masterminds arrived today, so I've got a bit of reading ahead.

I am actually setting out to convert the Spycraft classes to d20 Modern. I want to run an A-Team meets James Bonds meets the X-Files kind of game, and I think d20 Modern using the Spycraft classes would be perfect.

Post how it goes. I'd love to hear.