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I couldn't find this discussed anywhere, so if this has already been answered, a link would be awesome.
At 5th level, an Arcane Duelist gets this:
Arcane Bond (Ex): At 5th level, an arcane duelist gains the arcane bond ability as a wizard, using a weapon as his bonded item, allowing him to cast any one addition spell that he knows once per day. He may not choose a familiar or other type of bonded item. He may use the hand holding his bonded weapon for somatic components. This ability replaces lore master.
The Arcane Bond rules state:
If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded. If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level. If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly.
My question is this: is this arcane bond bond suddenly required for all spellcasting? For four levels, he has been able to cast without having a special item, but suddenly he has to start having a particular weapon in hand in order to cast without a concentration check? That seems an odd thing to have happen, and may cause me to have to halt my character's Bard advancement at 4th level (he's a Cavalier multiclass, and switches between his lance and flail depending on the circumstance, so can't count on having a particular weapon, or even any at all, out when he needs to cast a spell).
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Well, the Arcane Duelist isn't supposed to be a traditional bard. Kind of the whole point is that his abilities (including magic) are more focused around combat.
Besides, the concentration check happens if you cast without the weapon "in hand". Just wear a big smile as you put your hands on your hips and wrap one hand around the hilt of your sheathed sword. No one will bat an eye. (At least, no more than they will due to you having just cast a spell.)
Besides, the concentration check happens if you cast without the weapon "in hand". Just wear a big smile as you put your hands on your hips and wrap one hand around the hilt of your sheathed sword. No one will bat an eye. (At least, no more than they will due to you having just cast a spell.)
Well, there is no game definition for "wielding", but i would say you must have the weapon unsheated.
This.
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It has been clarified by the designers in several posts I have seen that "wielding" is to mean "in hand". It must be even a hand with which you can make an attack as far as I know, so third hands or tails or such wouldn't work.
It certainly is a drawback for the arcane duelist. On the otherhand, it at least increases the value of that trait that gives you a universal +2 to concentration check :-/
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I have just started playing an Arcane Duelist and hadn't noticed that restriction. He's only 2nd level, so it hasn't come up yet.
Having said that, I have unknowing been playing him as waving his silly Longsword around all the time anyway (I've made him as a floppy-hatted (Extremely Fashionable trait) musketeer type who talks a lot (Oratory is his only perform skill) and gesticulates with his sword, the flouncing fool) so I may as well keep it up and continue to prance around pointing at stuff with his blessed blade.
I feel I have missed a trick though, Abrir's suggestion he somehow uses his sword to cast with the power of Dubstep seems like the stylish way to go about things. Every time you cast a spell, you have to play a bass drop from Skrillex or someone at brown note volume
Edit: Sangalor, what trait is that? Damn, I have missed out.
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Edit: Sangalor, what trait is that? Damn, I have missed out.
Focused mind
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Focused mind...
Edit: Sangalor, what trait is that? Damn, I have missed out.
Oh right, I thought it was something specially for the sword. Never mind then.
I was given the opportunity to pick a Campaign Trait. Seeing as this AD Bard will pretty much use his Longsword all day long, all the time, I went for Sword Scion from Kingmaker:
"Benefit You begin play with a longsword or Aldori dueling sword and gain a +1 trait bonus on all attacks and combat maneuvers made with such weapons."
Slightly better than Weapon Focus for the price of a trait. It offsets the Power Attack penalty at least.
To be honest, it's a very simple solution for the Arcane Duelist; make it a (Spiked) Gauntlet, or even Armor/Shield Spikes! Remember that these are still weapons, and that they are always considered equipped as long as they are attached and/or held in hand. One could even go as far as to make it a Locked (Spiked) Gauntlet to help protect it even further.
It might be silly, but Bards are a constant support class with their performances and buff spells; Arcane Duelist just allows them to be frontliners without so much risk, due to their defensive features (proficiency to cast in Medium and later Heavy armor! Yes please!)
Their other performances and features that they replace I find are actually superior to what they would normally have, so in my honest opinion, the Arcane Duelist is the best Archetype if you're looking for a Combat Bard Support-like character.
Because let's face it; if you're not a Full BAB Class, you shouldn't bother with melee combat.
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To be honest, it's a very simple solution for the Arcane Duelist; make it a (Spiked) Gauntlet, or even Armor/Shield Spikes! Remember that these are still weapons, and that they are always considered equipped as long as they are attached and/or held in hand. One could even go as far as to make it a Locked (Spiked) Gauntlet to help protect it even further.
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Because let's face it; if you're not a Full BAB Class, you shouldn't bother with melee combat.
1) But then you have Craft Magic Arms and Armor for only a Gauntlet and it is the only thing you can use your Bonded Item floating enhancement on. It's really... weird to be going round only punching people one-handed. Flame Strike fist has some aesthetic merit, but it seems odd the rest of the time.
2) :(
That does make me sad. What is the point in a Magus then? Or a Battle Oracle, or a Monk?
What BaB should I be looking for then to fight effectively? At level 2 my guy is +7 with his Aldori Sword, +6 with Power Attack. Is that enough?
To be honest, it's a very simple solution for the Arcane Duelist; make it a (Spiked) Gauntlet, or even Armor/Shield Spikes! Remember that these are still weapons, and that they are always considered equipped as long as they are attached and/or held in hand. One could even go as far as to make it a Locked (Spiked) Gauntlet to help protect it even further.
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Because let's face it; if you're not a Full BAB Class, you shouldn't bother with melee combat.
1) But then you have Craft Magic Arms and Armor for only a Gauntlet and it is the only thing you can use your Bonded Item floating enhancement on. It's really... weird to be going round only punching people one-handed. Flame Strike fist has some aesthetic merit, but it seems odd the rest of the time.
2) :(
That does make me sad. What is the point in a Magus then? Or a Battle Oracle, or a Monk?
What BaB should I be looking for then to fight effectively? At level 2 my guy is +7 with his Aldori Sword, +6 with Power Attack. Is that enough?
Magi have powerful offensive spells and class features to support them. The Arcane Duelist has hardly any of that.
Because there aren't magical properties available whose purpose isn't just attacking...
Oh wait, there are! The Benevolent property is an amazing way to make every attack count for your frontliner; and since you're wearing Medium/Heavy armor without issue, you have an AC line of defense in addition to your other buffing magic! You can even ready the Aid Another for when your frontliner is using his final attack (the lowest BAB used) and make an attack that would otherwise miss actually hit.
Not to mention the Courageous property, which increases Morale Bonuses applied to you, making your footing in combat even more fortified, the Defiant Property, which nullifies the worst effects of Stun, as well as adds uses to reroll abilities like Imp. Lightning Reflexes or Imp. Iron Will. The Guardian property can make your Saves even better, so it decreases the likelyhood of negative effects getting to you. Take your pick, they're all good for a support character, and they don't require a thing.
In the lower levels, everyone is sort-of equal in that aspect. Having a +7 to-hit is good, but when you get to Mid-High Levels, you're going to feel useless in melee combat because your chances to hit are going to be in the crapper with things having such high AC, because you have less BAB. Your actions spent attacking are better spent buffing or supporting those who are better at the offensive job than you are; you have so many class features and spells and opportunities to accomplish this in comparison to being a frontliner that it's practically imperative.
Battle Oracles are competent because they have mysteries and such that make them relevant to the combat; they also have much better self-defenses and utilities for melee combat in comparison to a Bard's for his own. Not to mention, healing is your friend. The same can be said for Monks; their features are also just as good (though others will tend to disagree, this is my viewpoint). They have uses in melee combat outside of dealing damage, and that's equally important; the Bard has none of this.
@LazarX: And then you run into the same problem that happens later in the game; difference of scale. It's the same reason why Wizards, although weak in the early game, absolutely slaughter anything in the late game. Bards are the opposite; they're competent and good for melee early game, because the difference from BAB is at best 1 or 2, and quite minimal. The difference towards the late game becomes 4 or 5, or even 6 at points. Not to mention the differences between CMB/CMD, HP, Spell Availability, Features, etc.
You show me a Bard that hits just as much and deals just as much DPR as a Full BAB class and I'll concede your point. However, the math isn't on your side.
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Oh.
Well I am only 2nd level, maybe the game won't get that high.
I was encouraged by LazarX's answer, because a sword wielding arcane gish type is just, y'know, cool.
What about taking Eldritch Heritage at later levels if it looks like the game will last? AD Bards don't seem to have a lot of absolutely neccessary feats, spending the 7th, 9th and 11th to get Orc or Abyssal might give me enough strength. As a Bard he certainly has the Cha already.
Alternately, what about a fighter dip?
As it happens, I do not expect to win the DPR Olympics, though I do want to hit often enough. The guy is a Bard, he will have 6th level spells and some nice bardic performances, everyone in the party will appreciate that. I do want to be able to stand next to the fighter after the Inspire Courage and spellcasting buffing rounds and help him fight the good fight.
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Oh.
Well I am only 2nd level, maybe the game won't get that high.
I was encouraged by LazarX's answer, because a sword wielding arcane gish type is just, y'know, cool.
What about taking Eldritch Heritage at later levels if it looks like the game will last? AD Bards don't seem to have a lot of absolutely neccessary feats, spending the 7th, 9th and 11th to get Orc or Abyssal might give me enough strength. As a Bard he certainly has the Cha already.
Alternately, what about a fighter dip?
As it happens, I do not expect to win the DPR Olympics, though I do want to hit often enough. The guy is a Bard, he will have 6th level spells and some nice bardic performances, everyone in the party will appreciate that. I do want to be able to stand next to the fighter after the Inspire Courage and spellcasting buffing rounds and help him fight the good fight.
And I understand that there are games where optimization is not important, or even expected. I play those kinds of games; I'm in one now with being a Two-Handed Fighter Tank.
Considering they also get bonus feats (Combat Casting and Arcane Strike Hurrah!), not really. Some Eldritch Heritage feats are going to be really helpful for you, and if you wish to continue to be the melee bard, then go for it.
It's just I've had experience with playing a Bard before, and I've seen other people play Bards; when things got up to their face in the average levels (6 or 7), they didn't fair too well and they had to either run back to the frontliner to deal with it, or they just outright died. Problem is, the Bard class itself isn't really designed to be a truly good hand-to-hand aficionado. He is a support role first and foremost, and trying to do a class outside of what they're designed for is not only dangerous, but can lead to a game not fun for you.
With that said, if you expect the game to not last above the levels I described (E6 gameplay for example), then going a melee Bard is viable and perhaps a great choice for your second frontliner.
Dipping Fighter as a Bard can be helpful; granting proficiencies, an extra Bonus Feat, a +2 Fortitude Save, plus a little bit of extra HP. The only problem is the delayed Bard progression and the loss of net Spell Points; as well as potentially great features you'd really like for the endgame. Compare and contrast these differences, and choose the one you'd like to have.
He'll also have Shadowbard; being able to perform 2 Bardic Performances simultaneously is perhaps the most powerful spell he can have (and it's only 5th Level); take the Extend Spell Metamagic, and that performance will last a very long time (and includes Lingering Performance if you take that feat).
You show me a Bard that hits just as much and deals just as much DPR as a Full BAB class and I'll concede your point. However, the math isn't on your side.I've never played that angle. I don't consider characters as isolates but as part of party dynamics. At higher levels, the arcane duelist brings the ability to mass enhance his comrades weapons and combat ability. (his own as well). The Arcane Duellist isn't going to be just a melee package he is a spell and performing package as well. Now, as a PFS character the challenge is to adapt to different party compositions, and part of that will be done by the gear he acquires as well.
Also keep in mind, that this character since he is PFS isn't likely to go above level 12, which is the end point of most home campaigns anyway.
And that's what should be stressed with as the Arcane Duelist Archetype; supporting the frontliners. In the beginner levels, it's possible to be in the front line because at those levels everyone is squishy and open to being cut down like cattle; the barrier of a few hit points or a couple AC points isn't too much to scoff at. When characters get levels, their stuff builds, and the thing with a Bard, even as that Archetype, his building total is less, and progresses slower than others in melee combat.
That is to say that one shouldn't try it, but that if one does try it, they not only have the potential to deny support that is definitely more helpful than being a frontliner themselves, but will find themselves regretting their actions once they get to that level.
I am one of those who saw somebody play a Melee-Based Bard, and up against a full-BAB Martial, got slaughtered in both the DPR and durability department; in fact, they weren't even really able to do anything in that game other than point out that Melee-Based Bards are squishy and not fun to play.
In that same game (it was PVP; perhaps not a fair comparison, but it was still a Party Versus Party thing, which happens every now and then with other people playing sessions), I played a Spell/Performance-Focused Arcane Duelist using a Gauntlet as my Arcane Bond, and it was the second round where it was smaller teams, (1 or 2 people per "team") and I had a lot of fun locking people down with my high DC spells (DC 21 1st level spells at 12th level with a Lesser Metamagic Rod made me point and laugh at the same Big Bad Martial who slaughtered the other Bard, made him crying and afraid while trapped in a Wall of Sound). The other bard, again, was useless. It took 3 different people to take me down (and I was actually only knocked unconscious due to a Sap Specialist Ninja; even with Mirror Images and everything I could have active).
If the Melee Bard was optimized better, perhaps he might have had a better experience, but the numbers won't lie to me about what would've went down with all the chips on the table; at that 12th Level, a BAB 8 to BAB 12 is a -4 difference for to-hit, in that alone. Not to mention the discrepancy between Attribute Modifiers being used as well as the difference in weaponry, gear, etc.