Way of the Wicked (Monster Edition)

Game Master Diamondust

”Perfect. These beasts’ll do just fine for the celebration. Beat ‘em a bit more, if they're strong enough to fight properly the king’ll ‘ave our ‘eads.” The jailers laugh at your weakened state and add more bruises to your bodies. In three days you and many others will fight the knights of Talinguarde and be mercilessly cut down in a display of the King's might. You are doomed.

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Welcome everyone, to my way of the wicked game. You have all been captured and await the day of the anniversary of the King's reign to be put on display and face unfair combat against Talinguard's finest knights. The usual punishments of hanging, beheading, hard labour, don't apply to you. Your kind can't be treated the same as a human or elf. Usually you would be destroyed on sight, but this time they were ordered to capture you instead.

If you have ever wanted to play as one of the creatures that go bump in the night, now is your chance. All the standard races are banned and all sorts of monsters and automatically assumed as evil races are up. The only requirement is that you hate Mitra and the Talinguarde that seeks to eradicate you.

All the creativity of what you want to play is yours. Look through the bestiary and races and play what will be interesting to you. We will work to make sure your choice is not overpowered. You should be similar power to a level 1 character(you were somehow captured after all) but you may grow in power as you level up.

Previous experience with way of the wicked is ok if you can separate prior knowledge from your character. We will start from the very beginning so if you haven't tried way of the wicked before you are most welcome to apply. The hardest part might be weakening monsters to manageable levels for a level 1 starting point but I'm excited to work with you to make it happen. I'm sure there will be many questions so let's get cooking. If it happens that we have an all monster party that is fine or if it is too hard to balance and going for just the already created monstrous races that is going to work just fine a well.

If i make rules updates or changes I will put everything in the campaign tab so people don't have to search the whole thread for every post I make.

Welcome back! It might be good to use the race builder to build the monsters. Set a point limit and we'll have a guideline to balance the level 1 version of the monsters.

So, if 3pp can be considered I'd add my request for the Spheres systems, that can allow to create some excellent necromancers, pyromaniacs and all-around horrible creatures.
Now to think of a race...

This campaign concept sounds awesome.

I have always wanted to play a cleric of an evil deity, maybe I will finally get the chance.

I'd be super interested in playing a worm that walks or serpentfolk cleric/wizard. But I guess both of them would be fairly hard to balance down to level 1... If you think it is possible to play either of those I would really like to work with you to come to a satisfactory solution.

If those are too hard to nerf to get to a decent Level/CR I would also be down to play a Deep One Cleric/Warpriest of Dagon if that is possible.

Dotting for interest.

When thinking of the world's most evil creatures, I have long longed to play that natural avatar of evil, the common housecat. Making a level-1 Awakened Cat equivalent probably wouldn't be too hard with the race maker. Of course, my class would probably have to be something that functions well without being too dependent on either hands or equipment. Witch and Sorcerer come to mind...

Afterthought:

He would have started life as someone else's familiar. He enjoyed the magic and abilities, but didn't care for being told what to do all the time. As a result, he probably killed them (tripping them down the stairs is the usual cat MO), after arranging the appropriate magic to make sure his self-awareness would survive them. After that, he took his former master's objects of power and started plotting to take over the world. Now it is only a matter of time.

Interesting! How long will recruitment be open?

I like the sound of this a lot! A few years ago I played around with ideas to make a Medusa who had been "blinded," in that her eyes had been removed. She could still see perfectly fine with all around vision thanks to her snakes, but she lost her gaze attack. That seems like something that could fit in well with this idea, especially if I could gain the gaze "back" at some point once it's more in line with our expected power level. Maybe even gain it back in phases, like as a gaze that works similarly to calcific touch?

Gaze attacks can be tough when PCs have them though. GM thoughts? I have plenty of other ideas if this isn't suitable.

This campaign concept sounds awesome.

I have always wanted to play a cleric of an evil deity, maybe I will finally get the chance.

I'd be super interested in playing a worm that walks or serpentfolk cleric/wizard. But I guess both of them would be fairly hard to balance down to level 1... If you think it is possible to play either of those I would really like to work with you to come to a satisfactory solution.

If those are too hard to nerf to get to a decent Level/CR I would also be down to play a Deep One Cleric/Warpriest of Dagon if that is possible.

Worm that Walks is a template, isn't it? You could always build towards it and complete your transformation at an appropriate point.

dotting in. Never been able to actually get very far into the WoW AP, normally we get out and to the manor and poof it dies. I have always wanted to finish it though.

I'm thinking a LE scaled fist monk. Eventually going into Dragon Disciple...

that, or an alchemist or arcane caster.

will we have access to the vampire feat chain?

an Orge wizard that, while evil, holds remarkable manners and eloquent speech is actually intriguing to me... would something along the lines of that be applicable?

@Philo Race builder could work. If you can make something in line with standard races power level maybe 10-15 race points.

@Sapiens Spheres is ok.

@Nemrolder A younger serpentfolk who hasn't properly learned the use of his abilities yet(things develop at puberty or something) would be easy. I'm not sure about the worm that walks, perhaps you are weak when you first rise and over time master the evil magic from your previous life. Deep one is easier, all you really have to do is swap the HD for class HD.

@Rigor A cat isn't really a monster unfortunately. And i should have put a limit on size to be small, medium or large.

@Caster4life 2 or 3 weeks probably until i think we have a good amount of complete submissions and further interest has stopped.

@Zefig A medusa sounds interesting. Remove the HD and use your blinded idea. You would have to search for restoration magic to restore your eyes.

@Rorek You could start as a vampire, perhaps a weak spawn without some of the abilities like dominate and such yet. With an ogre perhaps you would want to change it's advanced stats to more favour a wizard as a strange ogre mutation.

Sounds very interesting.

Here is something I ran up after looking through the various races available. Nanami.

Please let me know if she's acceptable?

I see her as having been happily stealing and murdering until someone saw through her disguise. Without her disguise kit she is a lot more noticeable.

So you are looking for people that are cosmetically monsters, but basically the power level of basic races.

I think maybe change one of the advanced ability boosts to Int, to compensate the -2 Int from being an ogre? Seems fine to me. Or drop one of the boosts to pick up a +2 +2 ability score?

also, I meant access to the vampire feat chain (you slowly become a full fledged vampire over the course of 9 levels)

In that case I would really like to go for a premature serpentfolk character.

I tried to gather the basics of advanced serpent folks in a 15RP Race suggestion. Is something like this similar to your expectations or do you have something else in mind?

Orc Barbarian who is also a cook and one who has caught dark whispers in his ear.

I have a PDF called "Pathfinder- Bestiary Levels". I am not sure exactly where it came from and it is kinda old. It could be useful for this project.

I think it was a Paizo project, a sample of which was released and never turned into a full publication. It isn't perfect, some of the creatures are not balanced well. But it must be worth a look.

I am also interested in the campaign.

@DBH Can you make your document viewable to those with the link?

@Philo I don't want full powered vampires/liches/werewolves/etc at level 1. You will be able to be propely scary as you gain level and power.

@Rorek For Ogre remove all advanced stats and paragon stats. Give it regular stats of +2 str or con, +2 int, -2 cha. Less strong, more intelligent. Natural Armour only 1 but gains +1 at 5 and every 4 level after upto +5 at 17th. For vampire feats that usually gain you the template no not needed. For becoming or being a vampire we'll start with a weak version of a spawn or something and naturally get stronger, no feats needed.

@Nemroider Instead of escape artist you can have the alchemy ability. Gifted spellcaster is fine but you get to choose 1 spell at 1 and 1 every 2 levels instead of every level. Stats -2 str, +2 dex, +2 int or wis or cha your choice. Perhaps we'll adjust it more but let me know your thoughts so far.

Joynt If you want to use that for ideas go ahead and let me know what you come up with.

Sorry, Google docs keeps doing that to me. Should be viewable now.

Dotting for interest. I think I can put together a monster for this. Might see if I can scale down a regular monster, but if not, I'll just use a monstrous race.

Are Outsiders permitted, or would you prefer a non-Outsider monster?

@Rigor A cat isn't really a monster unfortunately.

Really? We seem to have had rather different experiences with cats. Alright, best of luck with recruitment and your game!

Automatic Bonus Progression

As written in Unchained?

3PP will be considered

Please consider Spheres

@Cardinal I find this very interesting. First thought was to go vampire of some sort, I know there are Vampire and Lich feats that can be taken. But how would you like to play this out so I'm not just a level 1 human with the bitten feat.

Side note - I havent played Way of the Wicked before but I see a lot of games going with gestalt. Is that mentioned in the game at all or is that just a theme some GMs go with?

While I'm not as concerned about the answer to my above question anymore, I figure it should still be answered for the benefits of others.

I'd like feedback on this doppelganger "race" I built using the Race builder. It's 15 RP, but I want to make sure you're okay with all the abilities.

@Cardinal I kind of want to play a mechanically ordinary human but the real character being the Oni Spirit Mask that fused onto his face and controls him like a puppet. Then later levels let me discard hosts for others if I can corrupt/take them over.

Basically a custom Spirit Oni

Working on the Medusa idea...

The poison ability is a lot different for the race builder, applies differently, and is far less potent and much easier to resist, but otherwise most if it translates well. The RP can be reduced easily by taking a less aggressive stat array and reducing the nat armor. I'd gladly trade some of that to make the poison closer to the base Medusa poison.

Class-wise, I'm considering going with some Spheres, maybe going Mageknight focusing on ranged combat. If not spheres, possibly an Arrowsong Minstrel Bard.

Although, white-haired witch could end up being really fun....

Dotting in. I'm pretty sure I want to be some kind of Fey, though unsure whether I want to be something like a Skin Stealer or Spring Heeled Jack (who have abilities minor enough that just lopping off the racial HD makes them playable) or something more out there like a toned down Hound of the Wild Hunt

I'm leaning more toward the latter. The idea of playing an intelligent dog with a bunch of cool abilities appeals to me (I'm a sucker for special senses).

Actually, yeah. put me down as "I want to play a Hound, if allowed". I'll think of something else as a backup plan if not, the potential opportunity is too much to pass up.

@Cardinal A. Thorn the standard racial skills for serpentfolk are escape artist and use magic device. Could I get the racial bonus to Use Magic Device instead of the Alchemy you recommended, either way I'd like to play a cleric and I am not seeing myself making real use of either since I do not want to go into alchemy. Your call.

Sure, I'll use that ability distribution then. (-2Str, +2Dex, +2Wis)

What was that about Gifted Spellcaster, I don't think I said anything about that / I can't find it in the Source Documents either. Are you referring to Favored Class Race Rewards?

I will get my stats up asap

Am very interested, thinking of making a Wight King (a la Warhammer Fantasy) type character using the Death Sphere Commander archetype from Spheres.

I have exams at the moment but will get something up in roughly a week

Hi :) Interested in this, and considering playing a martial character a la Fighter or Sentinel. About the race, I-m thinking something tough, like an ogre, minotaur or whatever. What would be your preferred way of translating it to level 1? I could make a custom race mimicking the features (even if I'm not Large, as this eats a lot of points and seems not quite viable in a 15 pt race). What do you think?

Or I could pick a race like Orc, e.g., and add some extra features (like Natural Armor or Advanced Con) to boost him to 10-15 RP.

Stats up in profile

This is the alias for a one Reginald Oswell Esq. Captured and accused of countless "murders" of mitran followers.
Even though I believe I rather eloquently and emphatically explained why I ate those people. But oh no, I'm an atrocious monstrosity merely because of my heritage and because I was defending my property. Bah! I'll have you know there is no deity more bias than this Mitra. Honestly, I abhor such racial segregation, signs of a backwards society I say! Did you know apparently ogres aren't allowed to own property in this country! Bah! Well, after acquiescing to their requests to come quietly I asked when my trial would be, as Obviously more intellectual minded heads would see my innocence in the matter. Do you know what they told me? They, rather rudely I might add, explained that a monster such as I needed no trial. That I was guilty without a shadow of a doubt! Well, needless to say I was appalled at such an allegation. Though nothing I said appeared to penetrate the thick skulls of those transporting me! Well, anyway. That's how I ended up here.... The ogre stops his rant to peer down at a tiny field rat curled up resting on his big toe.

Well, at least you seem to aptly listen to reason squeaks. Alas, the only sane being I've had the pleasure to speak to these past days. A shame really, who will you speak to once I am gone I wonder. More intelligence in you than half the guards here. If only I could get out... The Ogre rubs his wounds once more, in his eyes is equal amounts of hatred and sadness.

sorry, couldn't help but post a bit of background here haha. And narrated by the Ogre himself. of course, he left out the uh more... incriminating bits. Hope this was Ok. I've just fallen in love with this idea/concept.

He will be a sin specialist wizard, transmutation school.

I'm interested in this--I've long been interested in Way of the Wicked, haven't gotten far in any runs of it, and the idea of playing monsters is certainly a fun one. I have a couple possibilities cooking, but a potentially unorthodox one comes to mind: would I be able to use the Synthesist Summoner archetype to play, essentially, a rogue eidolon? They're listed as monsters in the book, and half the boards consider that archetype a monster itself. I could use whatever for a "race," maybe even just a bog human and the idea is that the character is actually the eidolon having taken over the relationship like the Venom symbiote or something, if not just being a totally free rogue being.

In any case, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

Aipaca's submission here, exams can go hang, this was too fun! Using Spheres currently, and the race is a Human with the Dread Skeleton Template (available here) - if it's too much, feel free to neuter it. Not 100% finished but getting pretty close.

@DBH Looks good to me. Have you made a backstory for it?

@Phntm888 Outsiders are ok. I am happy with the doppelganger race you have created. It could grow in power as you go, becoming a full power doppelgamger. Detect thoughts 1/day to 3/day to at will. Change shape to more forms and even any form that you see. And even gaining the abilities of the thing you change into. Just a few ideas.

@Rigor I understand what you mean, but we are going for the literal monsters in this game.

@Nyaa Yes as unchained. But you get the bonuses 2 levels earlier than it says there. So a +1 resistance bonus at level 1.

@Ictoo No gestalt here. For a vampire the best way it to go a newly or recently risen vampire that hasn't had time to learn their abilities yet and you learn them as you level without having to spend feats on it.

@Warsor It is an interesting idea for sure. I did not want tiny or huge creatures but if it is always controlling a host that could work.

@Zefig Just reducing the base Medusa is better I think. Con based poison is (half HD + Con mod + 10) so you would always have weaker poison at level 1 than a regular medusa. So no gaze, no HD, no natural armour is basically it. Stats could be -2 str, +2 con, +2 mental stat.

@Storm Dragon Hound of the Wild Hunt it is.

@Nemroider It seems we were looking at different bestiary entries for serpentfolk. I somehow went to a 3PP Serpentfolk without realising. Yes you can have Escape Artist and UMD skill bonus and not alchemy.

@Aggghhh Could you add to your backstory what he was doing or how he was captured by Talinguarde? Otherwise looks fine

@Jereru A minotaur without the racial HD and reduced natural armour would be fine. Stats could be +2str +2con -2int.

@Rorek55 An intelligent and well spoken ogre would be quite a shock. Look forward to the full backstory when you're ready.

@Helix I am open to the idea. Is there a bestiary page for a rogue eidolon? I can only find an unfettered eidolon.

@Aipaca Looks ok to me. The ability to not die(in the biography) seems strong but maybe if it takes a long time before he can rise again that would be ok. The time between risings could get shorter as you level and grow in power too. One change is your racial stats. The dread skeleton stats(+2dex, +2cha) replace the human stats (+2any).

@Helix I am open to the idea. Is there a bestiary page for a rogue eidolon? I can only find an unfettered eidolon.

Woops, no, there is not--at least not from Pathfinder. I was tired last night and misremembered what they're called, and didn't look it up at the time because I thought I had it right. Probably confused it with the guide author/poster in my head. In any case, if you're open to it, I'm very interested, so I'll start working on something.

Secondary question: Should I/Must I use the Unchained Summoner rules, or can I stick with the original? Again, good either way, just want to do it right.

Going to have to withdraw my application, sorry DM. I'm sure you have tons of interest tho!

Will get cracking on my inevitable capture.

@Cardinal A. Thorn

That sounds good to me, could you give me some guidance on how to stat up a vampire? Should I just try and build it with the race builder? Keeping some of the core vampire abilities?

Interested! Can we talk about golems? Weirdwoods have similar basics at 20RP. Androids aren't too far off... I'd like to make a golem Blacksmith, who gradually builds himself more and more powerful during the game. Anyway we could make that work?

Or a hellhound? :D

Augghh's career as a cattle rustler was cut tragically short due to those meddling do-gooders! Details in profile

@Zefig Just reducing the base Medusa is better I think. Con based poison is (half HD + Con mod + 10) so you would always have weaker poison at level 1 than a regular medusa. So no gaze, no HD, no natural armour is basically it. Stats could be -2 str, +2 con, +2 mental stat.

Works for me! After some investigation, I'd like to go with the Spheres of Power hedge witch, which would allow me to pull off some fun cursing, transmuting people turned to stone into other things, and even telekinetically assaulting people whith their stone friends and animating their stone friends to do my bidding. Lots of versatility. I'll try to put a build together over the next few days.

Character-wise, at least to start out, I see her very much as a wounded animal, driven to ferocity after the local guard managed to ambush her in her sleep and gouge out her eyes before dragging her back into the city in chains. If there's an appropriate NPC who could have led that mission, even better. Now she's hell-bent on survival first, and revenge second.

@Cardinal A. Thorn: How would you prefer the Hound be weakened?

Built in the Race Builder (in which case I'm not sure what to cost the Summon Pack ability as) or more generally trimmed? I could nix the SLAs entirely, as well as the racial HD and resistances/DR (or lessened on both), and be left with Summon Pack, Track, 2 claws and a bite, Fey traits, Greensight, and Scent or something similar. +2 Str/Wis as the racial bonuses?

@Helix Unchained classes should be used.

@Ictoo Looking at the vampire template. Let's start with the undead(augmented) type, no stat boost from previous race, instead you get +2 str +2 cha as a vampire. Regular weaknesses to garlic, mirrors, holy symbols, need invitation to enter, running water and sun is bad as are stakes. Ouch, though obviously the killer and worse one is the sun. I am taking the literal reading of 'direct' sunlight meaning that you are fine in any shade magical or otherwise, also thick clothes and a hood to cover you keeps you alive(of course makes you look a bit strange too). Get your slam attack and blood drain. Gaseous form only when you are reduced to 0hp. And shadowless of course. The skills(Bluff, Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth) will be +2 not +8 racial bonus.

@Nikolaus A golem/construct would definitely work. Wyrwood would be a perfect base from which to upgrade yourself. If you prefer hellhound that one is easy, go with base, remove HD and that's it.

@Aggghhh Thankyou for your submission.

@Zefig Ok great. Look forward to your submission.

@Storm Dragon I'm mostly avoiding the race builder if we can. Two ways I'm imagining is being wounded when you were captured or you are a young hound(making your capture easier). From senses keep darkvision, low-light vision, scent. Reducing defenses natural armour 1, DR 5/cold iron, resistances 5. Constant spell-like you have are know direction, mage hand, speak with animals, speak with plants. At will residual tracking. +2 str +2 wis for stats. No summon pack or wild gaze yet and your wild hunt link is gone. How does this sound?

Sounds good, assuming I keep at least one Natural Attack?

keep all the natural attacks

One last question before I hammer out the build: how do you feel about Path of War and Psionics? Mulling over my options, and a Mystic, Stalker, or Psychic Warrior might be really fun.

@Cardinal A. Thorn Yes, sorry I was meant to edit that but forgot to. The idea is that he wakes up a variable amount of time later, with varying levels of amnesia - always remembering his living life and his curse but losing chunks if his memory post-curse. Gives plenty of room to ditch him if you want to kill him off, as he just rises weeks later with no memory of the events of the campaign and wanders off on his own, or can come back sooner with his memories if you see fit.

Hm... Probably will be putting together a goblin... cleric, inquisitor or maybe a witch for this?