With Great Power (Inactive)

Game Master Brian Minhinnick

I could have been more clear, but gyrfalcon has the retraining scenario correct. Thanks Jelani!

-Matt

Just reworking back story with more info on her daughter

done, back ground and PC sheet

Completed Applications

Hama the Wandering Witch - Ravingdork

Lorenna the Winter Rose - GM Lucid Nonsense

I think I have finally settled on a character concept for this campaign. A general idea of the character is as follows:

-Sir Bartholomew retired from the Pathfinder Society years ago.
-Up until recently he had been employed as a bodyguard by Brythen Blood.
-He used what he earned from this job to make a sizable donation to the local church of Erastil in the form of an Altar of Erastil.
-Sir Bartholomew had taken the day off to help move the new altar into the church when Brythen Blood disappeared.

A quick idea of his mechanics will be as follows:

-Human
-Lawful Good
-Inquisitor (Sacred Huntsman) 6 / Evangelist of Erastil 10
-Expert Marskman
-Established Tracker

Question:

-Are we allowed to upgrade named items? For example, would I be able to upgrade Erastil's Leather to have an increased enhancement bonus and/or perhaps have it be made out of a special material?

DM Jelani, I have edited Hama's online character sheet to include interactive links for all of her feats, magical items, notable game rules and mundane items, pets, and spells. Hopefully that will make things easier on you and help speed up play once things get started.

I think I have finally settled on a character concept for this campaign. A general idea of the character is as follows:

-Sir Bartholomew retired from the Pathfinder Society years ago.
-Up until recently he had been employed as a bodyguard by Brythen Blood.
-He used what he earned from this job to make a sizable donation to the local church of Erastil in the form of an Altar of Erastil.
-Sir Bartholomew had taken the day off to help move the new altar into the church when Brythen Blood disappeared.

A quick idea of his mechanics will be as follows:

-Human
-Lawful Good
-Inquisitor (Sacred Huntsman) 6 / Evangelist of Erastil 10
-Expert Marskman
-Established Tracker

Question:

-Are we allowed to upgrade named items? For example, would I be able to upgrade Erastil's Leather to have an increased enhancement bonus and/or perhaps have it be made out of a special material?

Not sure what Erastil's Leather is. Do you know the generic name for the SRD? Upgrading items shouldn't be a problem, but keep in mind what I said upthread about something that needs a higher than 16th caster level to make requiring a planar shopping trip.

...keep in mind what I said upthread about something that needs a higher than 16th caster level to make requiring a planar shopping trip.

Are you referring to the caster level requirement of certain items, such as that specifically called out for magical arms, armor, and golems? Or any item's caster level?

I ask, because it seems nonsensical to have to go to a different plane to get a 1st-level pearl of power (CL 17th).

I'm talking about the caster level required to create the item. Far as I know you don't need to be 17th level to create a pearl of power. But for example if you wanted a scroll of greater magic fang written at 20th level, you would need to go off world for that.

How would we represent something like that during character creation?

Hey Ravingdork, I've never read through downtime & capital, and I see you used feats to improve your creation of magic capital and used that capital for your purchases...which all gets me curious. Do you mind summarizing how all that works? What's the benefit? Thanks!

All it really means is that Hama spent years working her butt off to get the resources necessary to craft her magical items to aid in her evil schemes. In return for those heavy feat and time investments, she saved a little money with item creation, sort of like those traits that save you 5 or 10% on item crafting costs. I've PM'd you a few extra details on how it all works.

How would we represent something like that during character creation?

By writing it into your backstory. Paying normal price for the item is enough crunch wise, bit it's a creativity tax essentially. Also any 16th level character who hasn't been off Golarion prolly isn't worth their salt anyway.

Hama can't personally plane hop insofar as I know, so she'd have to rely on items, hirelings, or pawns for it, but I suppose it doesn't really matter too much since I don't think she has any items that break your guidelines.

Her interest in other planes pretty much doesn't extend beyond her own imp consular familiar and the secret knowledge of lichdom that he has promised her.

However, if she were required to leave the material plane in order to obtain her objectives, I very much doubt she would hesitate to make the journey.

I'm very excited for this game.

Yeah, I mean you're not required to be a Horizon Walker or anything. But I've had plenty of PFS characters leave Golarion temporarily in low level scenarios. Not on shopping trips necessarily, but...yeah. It shouldn't be too hard for any of you to find some friend/associate/dupe who could have plane shifted you to whatever planar city for a shopping trip. Just view it as a way to show me your knowledge of Pathfinder cosmology, writing skills and creativity. All things that will make this game better.

I know we are all meant to be members of the Pathfinder Society, but is it safe to assume that the PCs all know each other at the start (or at least their respective aliases, in the case of Hama)?

That's up to you. The Society is big enough that you might all know each other well, might just be acquainted, or have never met one another. I imagine we'll work those details out post-selection, pre-game.

Dang Ravingdork, that is a pretty awesome amount of wealth you've managed to generate. I'm seeing over 700,000gp from a quick scan. Hats off to you, sir! Any chance of Hama spreading some of that around to us mundanes?

-Just when Matt thinks he's seen it all, high-level character generation continues to dazzle and amaze!

Note - I haven't audited characters yet, just glanced enough to see that they've followed format and have a background. But wealth shenanigans with crafting/downtime rules aren't going to fly. I specifically lowered the amount of staring wealth available to crafters to avoid that. No one will be making it into the game with significantly more than 315k worth of gear/resources.

As stated several times throughout the thread, for me this game is an attempt to see if "coreish" characters can actually function in high level play. I've tried several times to run high level stuff, and found that allowing a lot of doo-dads and whistles makes high level play impossible. The PCs are so powerful that they can easily defeat anything you throw at them. Since I'll be running modules that are published with the assumption that PCs are 15 point buy, there are four of them, and they have around average WBL, that's what I'm trying to stick close to without making options too limited.

Glad to hear you say that GM
Hana has me worried sorry Ravingdork but I am,
with your PC having Str 34, Dex 22, Con 23, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 30
:Tones of evil" magic an evil devil body swop add in 700kgp of stuff, as well as carrying around a coursed helm of opposite alignment, I'm seeing an intent to take on the party the moment your PCs cover is blown with something like true seeing.
"Hay look Hana is a devil!!"
form there she could just about take out the whole party. I can't see where she brakes the rules, but man dos she very much brakes the spirit of the game, Cleverly done, but I was hoping for a lighter and more fun kind of game really. GM did say he wanted PCs working for the common good kind of thing.

Its ok, Im still here, It was just I over copyed my PC sheet with and old one and lost about 4 days work, man I was not happy.

Lorenna! NOOOOOOOoooooo!

-Matt

its ok Im still here, It was just I over copyed my PC sheet with and old one and lost about 4 days work, man I was not happy.

Ouch. That sucks!

Lorenna The Winter Rose wrote:

its ok Im still here, It was just I over copyed my PC sheet with and old one and lost about 4 days work, man I was not happy.

Ouch. That sucks!

Yep my mess, opened wrong doc, cut and pasted thinking it was the work I had done on back story last night, rats lost all that.

So have to do it all again :(

Sorry about that guys. I remember the GM saying no "downtime empires" which is why I stuck to one shop. I thought it was to keep things manageable, not to keep wealth on par (in the large scheme of things, I've found that for every doubling of wealth, it amounts to roughly a +1 bonus across the board--not nearly the balance issue people often make it out to be).

I'll see about toning it back since many of you are clearly uncomfortable with it. Even so, I think you will be surprised at how little will change. At a glance, I'm thinking her AC will take a significant hit and her Charisma will likely drop to 28 or so.

Her other ability scores and other stats won't actually change too much I suspect.

Glad to hear you say that GM

Hana has me worried sorry Ravingdork but I am,
with your PC having Str 34, Dex 22, Con 23, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 30
:Tones of evil" magic an evil devil body swop add in 700kgp of stuff, as well as carrying around a coursed helm of opposite alignment, I'm seeing an intent to take on the party the moment your PCs cover is blown with something like true seeing.
"Hay look Hana is a devil!!"
form there she could just about take out the whole party. I can't see where she brakes the rules, but man dos she very much brakes the spirit of the game, Cleverly done, but I was hoping for a lighter and more fun kind of game really. GM did say he wanted PCs working for the common good kind of thing.

Its ok, Im still here, It was just I over copyed my PC sheet with and old one and lost about 4 days work, man I was not happy.

I'm perfectly happy to make a few changes to better fit the group. What I am NOT happy with are when people openly point our perceived player problems with no real evidence. Such things not only undermine the GM's ability to make decisions for himself, but often make a pariah out of potential players without any evidence whatsoever. I've seen it happen too many times in PbP before to stand for it here too.

I have no intention of attacking anyone in the party, much less "everyone" in the party and never have! If such a thing were to happen it would only be at the uttermost end of the campaign, after everyone has already had their fun, and even then only with everyone's permission. I've been in PvP games before. Can't stand them. Never have. The constant stress and fear of being back stabbed and having a premature end to the game is just no fun for me.

However, roleplaying an evil witch who sees her fellows as undeniably useful pawns who are unknowingly furthering her aims, seems like it would be a great roleplaying opportunity. She is not so stupid as to toss aside such a powerful cast of characters (assuming she even could; I've observed that many of you are also equipped with one-shotter abilities that would make quick work of Hama, though you don't see me freaking out over it). Also, true seeing and other divinations simply won't work on Hama; she has no less than three powerful anti-divination wards upon her at all times. She didn't get to where she is now by being foolish.

If there are any other concerns about my character, I would very much like to hear it from the GM himself. I will make adjustments as needed. As I said before, I'm excited to have the opportunity to play in this game and I'll not have it jeopardized for a little extra wealth or due to someone else's insecurities/issues with alignment (even though the GM clearly allows for it provided teamwork is possible).

As for the cursed items, those are to better accentuate Hama as a "master of curses", which is also why she has bestow curse, greater bestow curse, remove curse, and a variety of curse-like spells (such as insanity or baleful polymorph). If they see any use in the game at all, it will be against an unsuspecting enemy that Hama has either duped or charmed into donning the item. Such things would be wasted on fellow PCs (not only because the DCs are so low they likely won't work anyways, but because it would immediately disrupt an otherwise fun campaign).

In short, I don't appreciate such insinuations. Such concerns should have either been sent to me directly via PM (allowing me to assuage them) or to the GM, so that he could personally bring them to my attention and see that they are addressed before game time.

Throwing it all out in public the way you have automatically makes me the bad guy, no matter what my intentions actually were. :(

I'm happy to see you removed the post, Nonsense, but sadly, mine's been locked in it seems. :(

I'm not seeing any PM just yet. Did you spell my name right?

I don't have a problem with evil characters as long as they work with the group. Obviously, there will be no PVP allowed. I'm not insinuating anyone said there was/wanted there to be. I'm simply laying down a rule. Please refrain from calling other people out on their characters' builds from this point forward. I will audit each character closer to the end of recruitment and make sure everything checks out. If there are problems, I will take care of them then, probably via PM.

Not sure what Erastil's Leather is. Do you know the generic name for the SRD? Upgrading items shouldn't be a problem, but keep in mind what I said upthread about something that needs a higher than 16th caster level to make requiring a planar shopping trip.

My apologies, the armor is named Deadeye's Armor. Here is a link to the item as it is listed on the Archives of Nethys site.

I was using this page to give me an idea of items that would lend flavor to my character being a rather devout worshipper of Erastil considering I am giving him full progression in the Evangelist prestige class.

DM Jelani wrote:

Not sure what Erastil's Leather is. Do you know the generic name for the SRD? Upgrading items shouldn't be a problem, but keep in mind what I said upthread about something that needs a higher than 16th caster level to make requiring a planar shopping trip.

My apologies, the armor is named Deadeye's Armor. Here is a link to the item as it is listed on the Archives of Nethys site.

I was using this page to give me an idea of items that would lend flavor to my character being a rather devout worshipper of Erastil considering I am giving him full progression in the Evangelist prestige class.

Yeah, improving that is fine.

Yeah I was thinking of upgrading my Quarterstaff of Serpents. Trying to figure out the formula they used was driving me nuts. But I think having an at will magic missile (CL 3) is good enough even at level 16 so I won't be hanging back in some fights with nothing to do. Only a foolish spellcaster opens with everything they got. xP

Hi guys,

As I'm getting closer, I've worked out a campaign trait which would fit the character I'm submitting...

I essentially took Extremely Fashionable and added some sweet flavor text.

-Matt

I have finished revising Hama's character sheet (both the PDF and online profile) to bring her more in line with the starting wealth house rules set forth by the GM.

For any who still lack faith in my sincerity, I have also taken the liberty of adding a new link next to me GEAR/POSSESSIONS, which shows the breakdown of wealth and weight as outlined in an Excel sheet. I have always had such a sheet, and have never been dishonest or otherwise insincere in any of my posts.

This time I have NOT used any of the downtime rules to get any discounts of any kind on any of her equipment, seeing as that was frowned upon. I kept her apothecary primarily for use as a base of operations and some capital goods to use as potential barter/bribes.

For those of you with concerns about balance, I hope that the ~2-point across-the-board reduction in her abilities is enough to alleviate some of your worries. Her armor class took a significant hit, whereas her offensive capabilities are nearly untouched. I'm not fond of glass jaw characters, but I guess I will have to make up for it in clever roleplay and strategy (which I usually strive for anyways).

I will continue to go over the numbers during the next couple of days to make sure I have not made any mistakes and to see if anything could be done more efficiently.

Ack! There go me old bones, all creakin' an' wobblin' on me again! I just keep on gettin' older and older...

;P

I am sorry if I came over harsh, there Ravingdork, Just some small worrys about small stuff Evil/Good, magic's stuff etc. All seems to have been covered. With this game my hope is for a fun game group and a fun game that has legs. All I ever really want, Seen so many games brake because one player has a PC so much more powerful than others. One game I was in had a Clockwork crafting Wizard and he just did not need the party, action events and finding stuff out was just all him.
Super smart with Clock work tech protecting him. When you started talking of others being Porns to protect Hama I kind of got flash backs :)

I trust the GM here to go over PCs and set the right levels,
DM Jelani is extremely experienced and diligent, and has great ideas for play. So who ever gets in will be in safe hands.

My PC is kind of opposite to Hama, not just in aliment but kit, she's hard to hit but dos not hit hard. I think she will be fine power levels wise checking is good. As a PC she cares about others, the other players will be looked after wile she is around. Healing and support is her role.

She has a small hospital in the city but that is a charity and will out side game play, She dos not want trouble to that.

On that note, What healing wands and stuff would any party need guys?
I hope if she is picked the others are healed by positive energy hehe she has a lot of that.

I've added an additional stat block to Hama's character sheet, for when she uses her possess object spell. Hopefully that will makes things go a little smoother should she ever get a chance to use it.

My PC is kind of opposite to Hama...

This is true in more ways than you might have guessed. Based on your character portrait, your character is quite majestic and powerful looking--very hard to miss in other words. Hama, on the other hand, does not like undo attention, and often appears to be nothing more than an unassuming grandmotherly figure. She's been on many an adventure where mighty agents of the Pathfinder society never suspected her of being anything more than their lowly cook! It's one of the reasons she has survived for as long as she has--letting the more obvious heroes keep the focus of those who might otherwise do her bodily harm.

Nevertheless, woe be to those who think to get around Hama's unwitting guards to get at the "helpless old lady" for an easy kill! Such cowards often find themselves transformed and boiled alive in the adventuring party's next pot of rabbit stew! :D

Hi guys,

As I'm getting closer, I've worked out a campaign trait which would fit the character I'm submitting...

** spoiler omitted **

I essentially took Extremely Fashionable and added some sweet flavor text.

-Matt

Approved.

Such cowards often find themselves transformed and boiled alive in the adventuring party's next pot of rabbit stew! :D

Hahahaha. Now that's evil.

Know the possess object spell really well, had a high level having PC who had an a huge Adamantine statue with a hidden camparment to do all kinds of damage, spelled up and protected, it was a kind of pathfinder mechs, man I miss that game. At 16th level and up you can get huge all day, it could flay as well and had a magic sword and shield, protected from rust and acid, loved that PC, he would open a hatch and say hi now and then.

Yep my PC is made to be the good shining light of fantacy heros, here aim is no less than to become a good god/Demi God, and for that you need followers and for that your need to be seen, to represent and embody.

It's that simple, she got this far by Working well with others, helping the team and having the goid higher powers on her side.

Ravingdork wrote:

Such cowards often find themselves transformed and boiled alive in the adventuring party's next pot of rabbit stew! :D

Hahahaha. Now that's evil.

Speaking of evil, I've received a PM from a player candidate who had some concerns. Therefore, I would like to ask each and everyone of you if there is anything that you consider too evil for this game; things that you might find disquieting, distasteful, or taboo, or simply don't want in your game. I will strive to avoid such things during play, just as I would anything else potentially disruptive to everyone's fun.

I'm particularly mild when it comes to roleplaying evil, rarely describing grisly details and often leaving things to the imagination. On the rare occasion I get to play an evil character, they generally turn out more like corrupt politicians rather than baby-eating anarchists. Therefore I don't expect any trouble (I'm ever the optimist), but you just never know when someone is particularly sensitive to a given subject matter, or might even have faced a similar kind of evil in real life. Therefore I find that it is a good policy to talk about it in advance whenever there are evil characters in a campaign.

So again, are there certain things you don't want at all or that you would prefer to have handled a certain way (such as "fading to black" during a torture sequence)?

I'm pretty grisly with my gore descriptions, but I try to avoid sexual violence by fading to black (should it come up at all). I also find detailed descriptions of harm to children quite distasteful. Other than that, I don't really care. Most of my games are pretty violent/dark as you can see from reading through any of them. People who are expecting a sunny, happy trip to the demon infested lunar Jungle are probably being naive.

DM Jelani, will you be NPCing all Familiars, Intelligent items and such, or will players get to play both or more as Added PC Alts?

I am thinking about making another Alt Sheet for my Intelligent item and/or Familiar, as they have states, skills, scenes and movements etc.

What I am asking is Will it be ok for us to play all out PC like stuff, or will you make it an NPC and play its actions rolls ego/character etc.?

I generally allow players to control their Familiars etc. I may control them while the player is unconscious or if I feel like the player is acting unreasonably or something. But normally it's in the player's hands.

Cool thanks GM, ill make the Alts and link them

DM Jelani, what is your stance in regards to casting stealthily with the Eschew Materials, Silent Spell, and Still Spell feats? I've seen some GMs say that it is essentially impossible to identify spells as the are cast in such a fashion, since there is nothing to observe until the spell actually goes off. Such rulings are generally based on the Perception range penalties applied to the Spellcraft skill check, which imply that you need to be able to clearly observe something in order to identify it properly; no components means nothing to observe. Other GMs will say that anyone with Spellcraft ranks can identify a spell being cast even when there is nothing to observe.

In short, is it possible for Hama to get the drop on enemies/NPCs with those feats? Below are some examples of what I am thinking of to give you a better idea of what I mean:

- Discretely cast a charm or dominate spell upon a target during a social situation (not so great if they know you cast it, or remember it later).
- Cast a silent/stilled bestow curse spell before shaking an NPC's hand. (Would that negate the need for an attack roll if they accept?)
- Casting an illusion spell in front of several enemies in a pitched battle in the hopes of misleading them. (Generally a lost cause if they know you just cast an illusion spell.)
- Casting miserable pity on her cat in front of an angry mob to protect it from said angry mob. (If they know you are casting a spell, suddenly the mob burns you at the stake instead of beating the cat to death.)
- Pretending to be a harmless, terrified old woman in a battle while casting silent/stilled buff spells on the party.

Personally, I'm generally a supporter of the first interpretation since it opens up tons of roleplaying possibilities, generally makes more sense to me all around, and doesn't automatically shut down certain schools of magic from functioning as intended (namely enchantment and illusion).

Note that this is different than asking "will such a spell provoke an attack of opportunity?" Since spellcasting requires concentration, I'm pretty certain it provokes even if the attacker doesn't know what it is you're doing (all he needs to know is that you are momentarily distracted to gain the advantage). At least, that's what I've always believed.

Sorry for all the questions. Such is the nature of high level play I guess. More options means more combos means more questions. In any case, I just want to have an idea of what I might be getting into (while also giving you a fair idea of what to expect).

I generally allow players to control their Familiars etc. I may control them while the player is unconscious.

If ever I unexpectedly fall unconscious and you happen to be aware of it, please call 911 and direct them to my location. ;D

I would rule that to detect spellcasting and identify it via spellcraft you would need to observe either a verbal or somatic component. As for your examples:

1) Yes, but the person affected by the spell would still know it had been cast on them.
2) Yes.
3) Yes, possibly. Depends on the situation.
4) Yes? Is the cat undead or something?

I would rule that to detect spellcasting and identify it via spellcraft you would need to observe either a verbal or somatic component. As for your examples:

1) Yes, but the person affected by the spell would still know it had been cast on them.
2) Yes.
3) Yes, possibly. Depends on the situation.
4) Yes? Is the cat undead or something?

The cat is a mischievous imp in disguise that tends to get into trouble.

I don't see an answer for #5. (I edited my post several times, so it may not have been there at the time of your writing.)

In regards to #1, would the target necessarily know who cast the spell? Would they later remember being charmed or dominated (or any other spell without a visual effect) even if they didn't have ranks in knowledge: arcana to use the "Identify a spell that just targeted you" option of that skill?

1) They might not know who, or what exactly, but they will know a spell was cast on them.

5) Probably not. That's a hard sell. What the hell would a harmless old woman be doing with a party of adventurers in the middle of a battle...ON THE MOON? :P Best bet is probably convincing them that all your player did was take levels of commoner and ranks in Profession (Basketweaver) as you stand there "doing nothing".

Most high level adventurers still gotta eat, right? And someone has to cook the food, no? It's not like the moon is made of cheese or anything. ;P

Seriously though, it's not uncommon for powerful people to have servants or lackeys, hired porters, and the like close at hand. Hama would clearly be "an enemy" but she may not appear to be an obvious target that needs immediate attention. It's part of her survival strategy.

Feel free to try. I don't plan on having you guys take porters etc. along with. Thus disallowing the leadership feat.