The Stolen Lands (Inactive)

Game Master Akinra

no objections here, feel free!

Maybe a Ranger.

A ranger or a druid would be useful in the wilderness.

Starting Sunday morning, I begin a 4 household Christmas season tour, briefly interrupted by an orthodontics visit, covering a little over 1000 miles in six days. Posting will occur, but be erratic until I am home again Saturday night.

It looks like a lot, so a quick OOC breakdown.

As the Grig fled the cave, it cast Entangle at the entrance to the cave, then hid in a nearby tree, holding its action until you all came out. You all headed out somewhat quickly, so I am calling it 5 minutes. Upon exiting the cave and entering the Entangle Spell, she cast Pyrotechnics (Smoke) on the fire from her perch, and promptly fled. It has a Flight Speed of 40', making it near impossible to track, and will be flying back home for most of the evening.

That leaves 4 minutes of Entangle remaining, and the and 9 Rounds plus an additional 1d4+1 Rounds after the initial expires.

A quick FYI, the distance = DC for long jumps, modified by +5 since launching off ice is icy conditions.

Total DC 25.

Source

Inuki is the most acrobatic, with a bonus of +6.

However, if Roga remains on the horse...:

Leap: DC 15 You can get your mount to leap obstacles as part of its movement. If the Ride check to make the leap succeeds, make a check using your Ride modifier or the mount's jump modifier, which is lower, to see how far the creature can jump. If you fail your Ride check, you fall off the mount when it leaps and take the appropriate falling damage (at least 1d6 points). This usage does not take an action but is part of the mount's movement.

Roga's Horse has a +1, and +8 additional due to its base speed for a total of +9.
Roga's Skill is +7
+7 is the lower.

My reading, RAW, suggests that if you are using Ride, you do not use Acrobatics, and you jump 1d20+ 7 feet. Therefore you need a 13.

Source.

Happy New Year!

For this Acrobatics Check, if you choose to attempt, you can take 10, since no one is threatening you at the moment. Keep in mind that Armor Check Penalties, and by extension Encumbrance will effect your Acrobatics skill.

Nareth Current Acrobatics: -4 (Without armor, this would rise to 0)
Roga Current Acrobatics: +3 (or +7 Ride)
Inuki Current Acrobatics: +6
Sergei Current Acrobatics: +2
Jutmon Current Acrobatics: +2

Taking 10, all but Nareth can safely cross (without a check) if you improve the path. If Nareth were tethered to, say a horse, and made the attempt, if he failed it would be easy enough to reel him in (Assuming he was not wearing armor).

Also,
Would you all mind formatting your header to be like Inuki's? Saves me a little time.
Same with coming up with an atleast semi permanent watch list.

Since you can only travel 8 hours in a day, I am going to work on the assumption that you are spending 12 hours camping so each person can sleep eight hours. That still leaves a full four hours to set up and break down any camps you may erect.

Updated header

How do we want our semi-permanent watch list? Nareth always stays up till Midnight anyways for his spells, so he could always take first. I believe Inuki liked middle because of his darkvision

Sorry, I've been a little busy lately. Will try to catch up. Things should return to normal next week.

Just waiting for more people to check in before we continue on.

Greetings fellow travelers! I apologies in advance for any undue silliness. Tomorrow I begin my capstone project and am somewhere between terrified and elated.

Akinra extended the kind offer to join your game. When and how this happens in game, only the DM knows. I am posting as the alias I've created in order to introduce myself and get feedback. Criticism, praise, and general commentary are all welcome. The idea behind this build mechanically was to create a tracker/scout that could provide long-range support while still giving Roga someone he could play with in melee, which seems to be what you were looking for anyway. The background is a skilled, she is still alive after all, hunter/trapper living in the Stolen Lands, much like those you encountered earlier with Oleg, perhaps I was even there. The fantasy is to create a character that can do all of those very cool boyscout skills that always eluded me.

Look forward to joining you soon.

*Edit if the equipment math seems wonky, it's because Hammas made the bow herself. Also, used 500gp to buy, as that is half the amount to be gained between 1 and 2 and you are about halfway between experience wise.

Looks good to me, but they have not yet reached the half loot for WBL, so they will have to make an arrangement about that until later.

I can trim it down if people would prefer that. Mostly the stuff is just nifty.

I have a ton of reasearch to do tomorrow, so I may not follow as closely as I generally try to do. I will leave all intros to the world of RP.

I know you were asking for a ranger, but would you mind a Barbarian? He is a O.K. tracker. I would really like to play and I am a consistant poster.

Edit: nevermind I'm too late and you already have a ranger.

Sigh. If only I knew what stirling characters these rogues were.

Hammas would have approached from downwind if at all possible. With the party upwind from her, her scent range is 60ft. For Hamas, scent is a very/most important scent when dealing with humanoids. People try to hide all kinds of things, but usually don't bother with smell. Sight lies, scent doesn't

Hope my actions don't make things difficult, just trying to figure out how she would approach them. Unknown party of five males skilled in combat that don't seem to have standard equipment for a local and don't look like regular bandits either. Probably either shadow or just avoid, but they have what I want... learn more and then make a decision. Maybe they'll even be nice and throw the corpse beyond the fire light where I can steal it away.

*Edit A request to my fellow players. Smell is really important to Hammas, more than anything else, its what she uses for initial impressions. So, what would she smell around you? What is your olfactory aura?

Okay, sounds good to me. Can I assume to have heard the last bits of conversation they've had? If so, yay! How far away am I now, should I just go with 190'? If I'm that far away, I'll just sneak over to the horses and see what I can learn from them, that is unless people start saying or doing something interesting, then I'll stay where I'm at. Oh yes, my dog, Garm, is a ways back. I told her to wait.

Yes, you arrived just in time to see the large one bury his axe between the worg's ears.

Oh boy Hammas, I might get in trouble for this one lol. Nareth has the smell of oiled metal, grave dirt, and just a hint of dried blood

Thanks Nareth.

Nareth: Good build, could be one of my brothers if it wasn't for the pale skin.
Oiled metal: Metal armor and weapons, no surprise there.
Dried blood: Probably a result of fighting, fits with the gear.
Grave dirt: Hmm, where'd this come from?

Roga: Tough, looks like a Numerian, not enough gear though.
Horse, leather, and iron, fits with looks. No real secrets.

@Hammas The blood seems to be part of Nareth, not just an old fight, it sticks on him just like the smell of sea air sticks on a fisherman

Duly noted. Odd smell for someone who isn't a butcher.

Hope you don't mind, these are Hammas' initial impressions. I like having them easy to reference. Also makes clarifications like this easier.

No unusual odors about Jutmon. I checked his material component list, and there's nothing that would be especially smelly.

Sergei smells of regret and gun powder lol

Imperceptible to most, Inuki smells like he has been around dogs, perhaps?

Nareth: Good build, could be one of my brothers if it wasn't for the pale skin.
Oiled metal: Metal armor and weapons, no surprise there.
Dried blood: Probably a result of fighting, fits with the gear. Nope, wrong kind. It's in his hair and skin. History, the bad kind.
Grave dirt: Hmm, where'd this come from?

Roga: Tough, looks like a Numerian, not enough gear though.
Horse, leather, and iron, fits with looks. No real secrets.

Jutmon: Doesn't smell strongly of anything. Wrong build. City boy, definitely.

Sergei: Unusual scent, almost overwhelming. Sharp, sulfur and other things. Gunpowder? Stress, worried about something for a long time. Runner?

Inuki: Slimmer than wizard, no-gear, doesn't smell. A dandy city boy. Smells similar to foxes, kind of like how priest smells like blood. Weird, watch him.

Apologies for gratuitous grammatical gaffes in the last gameplay post.

Clarification on the gameplay inquiry. Is there anyplace that we could force, or at least strongly encourage, the trolls to come at us through a single opening of 30' feet or less? Preferably with ambush points on either side of the opening and a open escape route.

Come on people! Are you not men? We've got the oil, the traps, and the ranged weapons. Let's do this!

In a word, no.

At the moment, one is double entangled, and one is triple entangled. The one with three stacks is also busy dancing a jig as best as possible for him.

The party has already encountered a troll, and Inuki (I believe) has informed the party about the basics based on his Bardic Knowledge of trolls. They are big and although smarter than the beasts of the woods, incredibly stupid by human standards.

The most probable course of action for an enraged troll (and they will be even less happy with the grigs than the party was after their short encounter) would be to charge anything conceivably believable to be the cause of their consternation. Should the trolls spot you, you will most likely be the conceivable source of consternation.

On a Side note: I have been unable to locate a specific ruling on multiple stacks of Entange, however:

Entrap (Ex or Su) The creature has an ability that restricts another creature's movement, usually with a physical attack such as ice, mud, lava, or webs [I am considering Vines close enough to Webs]. The target of an entrap attack must make a Fortitude save or become entangled for the listed duration. If a target is already entangled by this ability, a second entrap attack means the target must make a Fortitude save or become helpless for the listed duration. The save DCs are Constitution-based. A target made helpless by this ability is conscious but can take no physical actions (except attempting to break free) until the entrapping material is removed. The target can use spells with only verbal components or spell-like abilities if it can make a DC 20 concentration check. An entangled creature can make a Strength check (at the same DC as the entrap saving throw DC) as a full-round action to break free; the DC for a helpless creature is +5 greater than the saving throw DC. Destroying the entrapping material frees the creature.

Helpless: A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (–5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus (equivalent to attacking a prone target). Ranged attacks get no special bonus against helpless targets. Rogues can sneak attack helpless targets.

As a full-round action, an enemy can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless foe. An enemy can also use a bow or crossbow, provided he is adjacent to the target. The attacker automatically hits and scores a critical hit. (A rogue also gets his sneak attack damage bonus against a helpless foe when delivering a coup de grace.) If the defender survives, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. Delivering a coup de grace provokes attacks of opportunity.

Creatures that are immune to critical hits do not take critical damage, nor do they need to make Fortitude saves to avoid being killed by a coup de grace.

Thanks for the information. Just to be clear, right now we have two helpless trolls? If that is the case, have to wait for the rest of the party to post to figure out what happens, but I'm all of 4x running over there.

Sorry about the rapid fire encounter posts, I had it laid out, and then people kept needing me, so it got delivered a lot more piecemeal than I intended.

Right now, you have 2 helpless trolls, 4 not so helpless grigs, and common sense would indicate something else may be at play; like most giants, trolls are indeed clumsy, but not often that clumsy when it comes to avoiding attacks.

You can discern roughly the area of magical effect as it seems to have animated the plants in the area. Previous experience for everyone else in the group would indicate that crossing the area may not be so simple as walking through, but walking around should not be overly difficult.

Also, the grass, brush, and bushes are not extraordinarily thick and strong. There is no guarantee that it will be able to control these creatures indefinitely.

Right now, you have a very substantial advantage, how long it will last . . . I honestly have no idea. I didn't plan on the little fey doing quite so well... I had planned it mostly as a 'slow the trolls down and scare them off' kind of ambush, and to keep people reminded of the growing fey presence not a truly lethal type encounter for the trolls . . . I will post more on that later, depending on the outcome. Maybe I should not have pulled two trolls from the encounter roll....

Spells that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes usually do not stack with themselves. More generally, two bonuses of the same type don't stack even if they come from different spells (or from effects other than spells; see Bonus Types, above).

Though it's not specific to Entangle I tend to feel this rule would apply. The spell does not strengthen nor add thorns to already existing vegetation.

I would apply the above in the case of minuses to any type of check, however; the Entangle spell does not provide bonuses or penalties.

This spell causes tall grass, weeds, and other plants to wrap around creatures in the area of effect or those that enter the area. Creatures that fail their save gain the entangled condition. Creatures that make their save can move as normal, but those that remain in the area must save again at the end of your turn. Creatures that move into the area must save immediately. Those that fail must end their movement and gain the entangled condition. Entangled creatures can attempt to break free as a move action, making a Strength or Escape Artist check. The DC for this check is equal to the DC of the spell. The entire area of effect is considered difficult terrain while the effect lasts.

The spell provides no bonuses or penalties, so they stack per RAW. Although the spell does not make the plants any stronger, it make a lot more of them attach. I look at it as the difference between being tied at the ankles and wrists by a rope, and being bound from head to toe in rope.

Let's not go through the center of that. So are we planning to leave or take them down?

That's what we're trying to determine. While running away is the safer, and probably smarter, option. We currently have a serious advantage. If Roga runs, he can coup-de-grace next turn if the troll is still helpless. Once we take down one troll, the other should be fairly easy. It's base speed is the same as ours, so I can race it if need be while the rest of you molotov it.

Currently there are three against, one four, and two undeclared.

I am still against because those trolls will eat us and pick us out of their teeth with the grigs, but hell I am also completely reckless so I will throw down if the group agrees to it.

So right now, we have

Hammas: For
Inuki: For
Jutmon: Against
Nareth: For
Roga: Against
Sergei: Against, but willing.

I suggest you form a concrete hypothetical (haha oxymoron like statements) battle plan, to see how you think you could prevail. Might help resolve the current 3/3 split.

Edit:

Run (×4): Moving four times speed is a running pace for a character in light, medium, or no armor ( about 12 miles per hour for an unencumbered human, or 9 miles per hour for a human in chainmail) See Table: Movement and Distance for details.

Anyone in Medium Armor will be able to move (at most) 80'. Those in light armor at most 120', and Roga has the potential to move 150' with a successful ride check via:

Fast Mount or Dismount: You can mount or dismount as a free action with a DC 20 Ride check. If you fail the check, mounting or dismounting is a move action instead. You can't attempt a fast mount or fast dismount unless you can perform the mount or dismount as a move action in the current round.

Mind you, all the above move possibilities negate the ability to do anything other than move... and you would all be moving pre-troll...

Keep in mind also that both charge and coup de grace are full round actions, and cannot be stacked. You cannot charge into a coup de grace.

Well, I had no idea they were helpless. As far as I knew multiple entangle spells didn't stack, they just made a bigger area. Now I wish we had a druid, could make just about anything non-flying helpless for a lance coup de grace rather quickly.

There are still some considerations though. A lot of my reasoning is going to be meta-game, but that seems to be okay here. In character Roga only knows that he sees two trolls, and that fey are involved.

A)The fey aren't likely to be friendly. If they're protecting their sacred grove from trolls, why not from men?

B)DM has mentioned a possible 5th fey we're as of yet unaware of...or something else affecting the trolls.

C)Is failing a death save against a coup de grace going to turn off their regeneration? I think not.

Regeneration:"A creature with this ability is difficult to kill. Creatures with regeneration heal damage at a fixed rate, as with fast healing, but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning (although creatures with regeneration still fall unconscious when their hit points are below 0). Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, cause a creature’s regeneration to stop functioning on the round following the attack. During this round, the creature does not heal any damage and can die normally...."

The average damage from my coup de grace is 29.7, less than half a troll's HP. So I'd have to get next to them, have someone hit them with fire or acid, then wait until the next round. Take a full round action to finish one off (assuming they can't make a DC 39ish fort save), then repeat the process. Then deal with the four (or more) fey. If one of the trolls manages to escape they could kill one of us or our mounts per round pretty easily. Just not worth the risk. On top of the fact that this is all out of character knowledge.

My vote remains run, unless someone can quickly offer a convincing plan in-character that would make Roga think this was an acceptable risk. We can just come back later. Once we've got a few more levels under our belts we can hunt down trolls to our heart's content.

Grr. Forum at my post. Short form.

I don't want to sway you one way or another, I just want to be clear that even trolls on a platter could reasonably lead to TPK.

Ah i've been playing too many high leveled games, I forget how badly trolls will destroy lv 1's

Well Akinra, we both need to be on the same page about what stacks and what does not. Because, my Wizard will definitely take the web spell when he gets to 3rd level.
Under your interpretation of the rules, you could double cast web, and those caught in it sticky mass would be pretty much helpless. Then, if it were set alight, they would take double the normal burn damage.

Damage from attack spells, such as fireball do stack, but there can be only so much web, or vegetation in any one area at a time.

Also here is the quote of the summary of the Entangled condition summary from the SRD. (I copied and pasted.)

Move at half speed
Cannot run or charge
–2 penalty on all attack rolls
–4 penalty to Dexterity.
Must make a concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell (or lose the spell).

I bolded the parts where it says the spell provides a penalty, which the RAW says do not stack.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be argumentative. If you feel that your interpretation of the RAW is correct, I'll go along with it. I appreciate your effort on making this game for us, and really enjoy playing with you.

Very well reasoned. I will sleep on it tonight. For now since they are helpless, helpless they will remain.

In my many years of PF I've always had it played they don't stack. Including Pathfinder Society DMs at conventions etc. If they stacked to turn into the Entrap universal monster ability then it would be a well known tactic since helpless is such an advantageous condition to inflict on enemies.

I'd suggest that if you want them to stack, simply have it be multiple saves needed to break free. So if you're in three entangles and you fail three saves, you need three successful saves (and actions) to break free. That makes casting the spell multiple times advantageous without making it overpowered.

I'm cool with the helpless in this situation to avoid retconning. I'm also willing to go with your ruling in the future, but I'm just throwing in my two cents.

I believe you all are correct, and I am wrong. To avoid retcon, they are still helpless until they break free.

Trying to give best in-character reason I can.

Everyone, since they are entangled, they can't break free and attack us in the same round. If they get free, bug out/circle back and molotov

Oil prepared as a bomb only has a 50% chance of working. It also takes a full round action to prepare as a bomb. On top of standard action drawing it out of your pack. I'm not faster than them, with my horse loaded down with two people we're probably the same speed as them.

Also, Roga doesn't trust Hammas at all yet. We only met a day ago or something, under dubious (to his eyes anyway) circumstances.

I'm not trying to be an ass, I just don't want to die. The numbers say we most likely will die, and I'm not a gamblin' man. I'll make sure to pick all you guys' bones from the troll dung and give them a proper burial though ;)

Frankly, they're just a little overpowered for us to handle right now. We COULD take them down, assuming everything goes exactly as planned and we all roll above 15 every time lol. Even if we kill their massive regen they still have like 70 health