@DMD: Ok, got it.
@Tatienne: Oh, Etna would definitely support orphanages: she's doing this whole thing "For the people!" after all. That's also because the Cardinal's motives aren't sitting that well with her at the moment: he seems to her more motivated by punishing the Mitrans than actually doing what's good for the nation (read: Asmodean regime).
Oh, also: We've got a list of notable NPCs up until now, and in the administration link we've got a tab for a wishlist of items you may want.
Edit: @Tkaara: Speaking of hungry vampires: do you think Thramm could fetch you one one of those Alchemical bloods, or something to store the blood while we're in the bryr?
Tatienne: I hadn't realised that you have a recurring minion. Whatever goodies he/you had prior to your... detainment, you still have: The Cardinal is not a thief.
My bad - I've never introduced a character into a game mid-way through before! Bound to be a few things that fall through the gaps.
** spoiler omitted **
No worries! I didn't have the idea for the High Templar until I sat down to do that post, and then it all came together.
The ability itself doesn't specify that it is the same minion that is summoned each time - that's just fluff on my part. I thought it would be a neat way to tie her implement together with the class ability. And I'm pretty sure that the ability doesn't summon the skeleton or zombie with any armor or weapons, so I think it is perfectly reasonable to assume that Taty lost the gear when she was captured. She would have not had the High Templar around since she was with her Taldan servants/suckers, and they wouldn't have known about him. More likely, she had some armor and weaponry stashed some place for when he's summoned, and it got left behind after she was snatched.
Since the ability summons a naked minion, I'm happy kitting him out now in Farholde, since you kindly gave me some coin - it seems only fair. I don't want to waste time RPing a shopping trip however, if that is going to hold gameplay up, and am happy to have this happen behind the scenes. I'd also like to pick up a heavy wooden shield for Taty. Do you track food/rations?
Poor Ivan isn't much of a minion, I'm afraid. Summoned naked, with 19 hps (1/2 of Taty's), for an hour at a time at this level, I'm going to have to plan to use him judiciously, and dressing him in armor once summoned seems a good way to up his usability a bit. I imagine the ability wasn't designed with the thought that anyone would actually play an occultist with an 8 con :)
Felrin's idea to use the Templar for terror purposes is probably the best use for him. I'm glad he thought of it, because it wouldn't have occured to Taty to use him for anything other than labor and protection.
@ Etna - thanks for the heads up on the wishlist. I'll definitely be adding to that.
I read through some of the NPC list in prep for this game. There's some pretty great stuff there.
Taty's idea of a successful orphanage is going to be a pretty grim place. Asmodean for sure, and in her mind the Admodean (Chelish) model is the best model for a society, so I think she'll agree with Etna on a lot of the nuts and bolts questions about the philosophy of government, etc. But in her zeal to wring the most potential out of her charges, well... a Dickensian orphanage will look like something out of the Brady Bunch in comparison.
Interesting that the Cardinal is more interested in punishment than instilling an Asmodean paradise. Maybe we can use that against him, when the time comes?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
That's also because the Cardinal's motives aren't sitting that well with her at the moment: he seems to her more motivated by punishing the Mitrans than actually doing what's good for the nation (read: Asmodean regime).
Interesting that the Cardinal is more interested in punishment than instilling an Asmodean paradise. Maybe we can use that against him, when the time comes?
I'm slightly confused by your reasoning here and I want to make sure that you aren't led to conclusions with... unfortunate consequences (for you). Let's break this down a bit.
An "Asmodean paradise" already exists. It's called Hell. Any attempt to create something other than Hell is not (repeat, NOT) creating an "Asmodean paradise."
So what, then, is Hell if not a place of everlasting and eternal punishment? Note the distinction between 'torment' and 'punishment' - the latter implies (indeed, it requires) the transgression of laws, which in turn requires that there be (literally) endless laws. But the purpose of Hell is not simply the creation of endless laws: its purpose is punishment for breaking those laws. The laws then provide two things: (i) the excuse for punishment; and (ii) the illusion of security ("follow the rules and all will be well"). The trickery here of course is that it's impossible to follow all the rules. Tricking people into breaking the law so they can be punished for it is quintessentially Asmodean. So is punishing those who break the law. So is taking what is good and corrupting it into something evil.
So what, then, is the Cardinal doing? He is punishing Talingarde as a nation for rejecting Asmodeus; and he is corrupting a Lawful Good nation by bringing down on it countless horrors, as surely as you corrupt a computer program by introducing a virus.
I suspect that you are thinking in the more traditional terms of the corruption/temptation of the individual soul, and it is true that many of those dying in Talingarde are doing so in a state of righteousness (see: Donnagin, Father Althus), thus - temporarily - escaping Asmodeus' grasp. But Asmodeus is playing the long game and in his plan one day the Celestial realms will fall to him. In the meantime, everyone living in Talingarde is experiencing the power of Evil. Some will no doubt choose to die rather than give in to it; rather more will likely choose to do whatever is necessary in order to survive.
tl;dr - right now, to the extent that Asmodeus can be pleased with anything other than himself, he is pleased with Cardinal Thorn.
Ah, maybe I phrased that badly: I don't doubt that the Cardinal is doing Asmodeus' will, it's that Etna is more worried about making Talingrade a prosperous nation for its people, and Asmodean philosophy* happens to be what she thinks it's best for that.
If it was, say, Chucaro, she would be chugging those shrooms.
*Philosophy, not making hell on earth. Etna had the pleasure of getting a short trip and it definitely wasn't pleasant, nor something that would be practical to making Talingrade a powerful nation feared by all.
So, what do we want to do this week? I'd propose the same actions as the week before, just exchanging one of the gather Information with an extra recruiting: we need to get Survivability up.
Hold it, you're getting a bit ahead here: you're currently in Moonday/Toilday 4th/5th, while your group's actions are for the whole of the week of Moonday 4th through to Sunday 10th.
Better question: what do you guys/gals want to do this week?
Once you find the Horn, you'll move on to the same time-frame as your minions, i.e. weekly; so this slight hiccup shouldn't last too long.
Frankly, unless anyone really, really wants a handful more random encounters in the Caer Bryr, I'm inclined just to handwave you through to the "finding the Horn of Abaddon" bit ASAP.
*Looks at the date*
Oh! I was convinced Tatienne got here after the end of the week.
If you say that it'll make it easier for you to organize things, and that we're informed enough to actually find the Horn, I'm okay with going there as soon as possible.
I'm guessing that even if we go there, freeing/convincing our buddy Vetra-Kali won't be easy, right?
If you say that it'll make it easier for you to organize things, and that we're informed enough to actually find the Horn, I'm okay with going there as soon as possible.
Same here.
By way of an advance heads-up, I will be travelling over the holidays, from Dec 17 to Jan 8, and will have unpredictable internet access - but I'll be having fun! I'll try to post when I can, but wanted to give lots of notice of my absence.
I'm traveling at the moment and will be back home tomorrow evening - will get a post up then.
I'm for handwaving the research as well, if it will bog things down.
"Studying the local flora" is starting to become something of a recurring excuse. Are we going to say that to the king too when we storm into the Throne room to assassinate him or something? :P
Yeah, no. There comes a point at which deception simply doesn't work: you've reached it.
And Erevan, yes I know you don't 'ping' as Evil - but your companions do, including an undead and a (near-)devil; there's simply no way you're getting the benefit of the doubt here.
Eh, didn't expect that to work either: just wanted to say the flora excuse just once. :P
Oh well, new wooden paperweights!
EDIT: Also, just to be sure: they are two trees making up one treant? There aren't two of them, right?
You'll find out :p
Assuming someone makes a better roll than Tkaara did, that is...
I don't know what Tkaara got, but my Knowledge roll isn't going to tell us much either.
While we're on the topic of alignment detection, I wanted to raise something: Felrin has the Heretic archetype, but the more I look at the primary ability of that archetype, which is the Judgment of Escape, the more it seems it doesn't work mechanically, in terms of actions required. A little looking around on the boards has supported this view. So, I'm wondering about the possibility of abandoning that archetype or switching to the Infiltrator archetype, which is very thematically appropriate for Felrin.
The down-side to Infiltrator is my Intimidate, Sense Motive, Stealth and tracking bonuses go down and I lose Discern Lies. Up-side is I get to pick a new alignment to detect as each day and I get a bump to Diplomacy. Lesser up-sides: can cast spells of opposed alignment and am more resistant to abilities or spells that detect lies or reveal or force the truth.
DMD - your thoughts on my making such a change? (though perhaps not just as we're about to start a fight)
Others - your thoughts on the trade-offs here? Especially on any good-aligned spells I might want to pick up?
Eh, was worth a shot. Since Felrin did try to get the ball rollin' and all... :-P
While I agree that Infiltrator fits Felrin much more (I honestly thought you had that archetype all this time :P), I'm not so sold on the crunch: Felrin's Sense Motive and Detect Lies have and will be very useful, considering that everyone else's Sense Motive score is abysmal (I think I'll be able to shore that up a little when I get Telepathy). D:
As for good good spells (eh), there aren't many that come to mind: a lot of spells with the [evil] descriptor have that as a way to prevent players from usually picking them up, but that isn't the case for the opposite.
The detecting as another alignment is pretty nifty, but considering that everyone else in the party aside from Erevan pings as evil like a child-eating Christmas tree, that limits the ability a little.
Though it's neither mechanically optimal nor character-appropriate, I briefly considered the Sin Eater archetype, just so Tkaara and Felrin could make a meal of it after every fight!
As folks buff up while some of us are 'chatting,' I'd point out that so far Felrin has taken a non-action (Knowledge check) and may have used one round bluffing, so let's not get too far out of sync, since I'll be buffing soon also.
|
I think that Heretic and Infiltrator are both fitting. Sin Eater is also interesting. It seems to be more of a flavor/out of combat healing than really useful stuff. The speak with dead is fun though.
Iconoclast could also be interesting. He hates Mitra, and is trying to destroy Mitran holy objects.
|
|
As folks buff up while some of us are 'chatting,' I'd point out that so far Felrin has taken a non-action (Knowledge check) and may have used one round bluffing, so let's not get too far out of sync, since I'll be buffing soon also.
Tkaara was planning on buffing, but due to her stellar knowledge rolls, things might have sort of changed.
The down-side to Infiltrator is my Intimidate, Sense Motive, Stealth and tracking bonuses go down and I lose Discern Lies. Up-side is I get to pick a new alignment to detect as each day and I get a bump to Diplomacy. Lesser up-sides: can cast spells of opposed alignment and am more resistant to abilities or spells that detect lies or reveal or force the truth.
Others - your thoughts on the trade-offs here? Especially on any good-aligned spells I might want to pick up?
Mechanically, it seems like a lot to give up. Thematically, it seems pretty cool.
If you're willing to go it alone at points, the detect of a different alignment could be extremely useful. The downside would be that if you get caught, it may be difficult to get the cavalry to you. Combined with the diplomacy bump and the resistances to lies, you could be a very capable inflitrator / sleeper agent, but of course it is a very risky play style in PF.
Good spells could be quite useful, I'd think, in the right circumstances. We're surely going to be fighting evil guys as well as good guys (though hopefully not disease-creating daemons, any time soon). Dispel evil, holy smite, spells like that could have good returns if you can keep us from getting walloped by them. I could also hit you with the Holy weapon enhancement vs. evil creatures and you wouldn't gain the negative level. Inquisitor's bane + Holy could be really nice when we fight the bad guys.
But, it is all probably really situational, and it begs the question: you have a nice Wisdom score now, but will you in the future? If your Wisdom score is going to trail off, being an offensive 6-caster can be tough. I'm worried about falling behind with Taty, and I've got a casting score 3 points higher than yours. I suspect though that you'll keep pumping wisdom, at least with the automatic bonus progression?
RE: buffs, I should probably point out for those that haven't read the psychic magic rules that when Taty casts spells, it doesn't look like she's doing anything (thought and emotion components replace somatic and verbal ones). The upside is that casting is a purely mental action, and can be done on the sly. The downside is that any non-harmless emotion or fear effect (including being demoralized with a simple intimidate check!) will shut down Taty's ability to cast anything with an emotion component, and without spending a move action in addition to her standard action to cast, her concentration checks are crazy high for anything with a thought component (+10 DC, effectively impossible with an 8 con).
|
Was just queuing up, as it were. If I get enough rounds uninterrupted by the start of combat (unlikely), I'll get all of those buffs up. Thought it prudent since my posting rate has not been stellar of late.
For Felrin, thematically, I never quite got why he is a heretic. What about his beliefs are heretical to the teachings of Asmodeus? My PFS inquisitor, whom you got to play with for a short time at Avalon before I had to go home ill, is a heretic of Lamashtu because his beliefs differ widely from those of the established church. From what I can tell, Felrin is mostly walking the infernal line. Infiltrator seems like a MUCH more appropriate fit, considering his background. That said, this may all be academic, since DMD has yet to mention if he will even allow you to retrain...
I understand the queuing up, I just wanted to be sure Felrin wasn't assumed to be chatting blithely while others buffed.
As to the Heretic archetype - I selected it partly on mechanics (before I realized the mechanics are a bit broken), and partly on the text in the description that says "heretics are accustomed to using guile and deception to hide themselves," rather than any real deviation from the teachings of the church. Also, he didn't really have a church for many years, just a feeling that something was out there, so he was formally outside the church for a long time.
As you say, AU, the whole thing may be academic, but I do appreciate all the thoughtful feedback, everyone.
I'm probably going to feel pretty dumb here...do I have to post eventual buffing, too? I didn't do that as I was talking to them: don't tell me I've been holding everything up because you were waiting for me. D:
If it helps any, Etna, I've been wondering the same about whether I should post buffs for Felrin.
In view of the lack of surprise, I'll allow everyone 2 buffs before combat starts.
Ah,ok. In that case, I'll go for Mage Armor on me and Haste on everyone.
DMD - any thoughts on the archetype discussion above?
My thinking right now is no: Felrin's a heretic from the teaching of Mitra who has embraced the faith of Asmodeus. The Heretic class features seem to have served you well so far.
Having said that, if you do want to retrain, you're about to have a LOT of time on your hands... Let's revisit this in a bit.
Hmm. Felrin was never really a Mitran. And I have used the skills-based class features a lot, I'll agree.
I'm okay with revisiting, no rush to sort this out.
Felrin - quick question: does your alter self SLA actually give you the troglodyte stench ability, or was that text just flavour (scent)?
Just flavor, no mechanical effect.
Right, we've had the two rounds, so I'm rolling initiative - I have Tkaara's action already.
Post up shortly.
Yup, completely forgot that they're plants and immune to those spells:I mean, it's not like Etna would have known that either way, so the point is kinda moot. <.<
EDIT: Only heard about that and I don't know the specifics, but in the recent book Agents of Evil there's the Deceiving property for armors (fixed cost, 5000 GP), that makes you detect as a different alignment when targeted by divination spells! I was thinking of picking up the book when it comes out, I'll let you know the specifics.
There's also the Damnation feat, but only Erevan has it.
I've updated the spreadsheet map to include the animated trees - BTW, I wasn't sure how to arrange you so I put you in a line A-Z, left-right. If you'd rather be in a different starting order, feel free.
Where can I find the spreadsheet map? I'll post once I can see our positions.
It is bad timing, but I'm on my way out of town for vacation this next week, and am not going to have internet access. I figure Tatienne's tactics will be as follows. I'll be able to post until tomorrow morning, then please bot Taty and I'll be back in town next Friday.
Taty will move if possible to stay out of the reach of the treants and any animated shrubbery. If near a melee-focused ally, Taty will use a point of focus from her transmutation pool to give that ally's weapon the flaming burst quality, and if the ally already has the flaming burst quality, she'll use a point of focus to enlarge that ally. The flaming burst buff lasts 10 rounds; the enlarge person buff lasts 6 rounds. These are spell-like abilities and incur AoOs.
Taty can use a total of 6 points of focus buffing with flaming burst and/or enlarge.
If she's not able to safely buff anyone, she'll do the following:
1. cast flaming sphere. When possible on following rounds use a move action to move the sphere into an enemy's space for 3d6+2 fire damage (the +2 comes from Taty's implement focus).
2. use her evocation focus to cast a fire energy blast (3d6+2 fire damage, burst 20', range 100', spell-like ability) that catches the treants in the burst, if it is possible to catch them and not any allies. Otherwise:
3. use her evocation focus to cast a fire energy blast a single treant (3d6+2 fire damage, 30' range, touch attack, spell-like ability).
Thanks, DMD. Post incoming. Those treants are .
EDIT: Sorry - just rereading the GP and saw that I missed the spreadsheet there. Thanks again.
Felrin: that's a great post, and a fun bit of RP to go with your spell.
2 things:
(1) the spell has 30 ft range; do you want to be that close to them?
(2) they're immune to mind-affecting effects, particularly ones coming from Evil creatures. This is (for reasons I won't go into) much, much broader than the Protection from Evil spell: it gives immunity to "any attempt by an evil creature to possess, charm, or influence it." I haven't decided yet whether that immunity to "influence" covers non-magical means such as intimidate. But if it does, that's 3 actions in a row your team has lost. I don't think you can afford that: this is a very serious fight.
DMD - thanks for the feedback. I've always liked the opportunity for RP that spell offers. In response to your points:
1) I was presuming that we were about that close already, which is why I cast defensively. If our other melee-types are going to be up close, I'd like Felrin to be also. Looking at the map, I had figured I was within a 5-foot step of one of the twin treants, though I know you said we could reposition if we wanted.
2) I think making them immune to Intimidate is a very broad reading of that ability. I'm certainly not attempting to possess or charm it, though I suppose I could be attempting to influence it. But I don't think Intimidate is a mind-affecting ability, as it's very different from Enchantment or Illusion, which seek to trick the mind into seeing something as different from how it really is. Intimidate just presents something frightening (which Felrin actually is, rather than pretends to be) and causes a reaction to that. What's more, I'd think if an ability made a creature immune to skill effects like Intimidate, the description of that ability would call it out.
(1) Tr on the map is the animated trees: J is Jurak the treants.
(2) Fair point, but "mind-affecting effects" includes morale effects, which probably does include Intimidate: the result of a successful Intimidate check gives your opponent the Shaken condition, which is a fear (mind) effect.
However, since it's not absolutely spelled out, I'm minded to apply the Rule of Cool in your favour and say they can be subject to Blistering Invective. It was a good post.
As I am at work and posting this from my phone, I cannot see the map or properly post in the IC thread. But since Erevan is one of the melee types Felrin mentioned, he would probably support the tiefling in matters of up close and personal lumberjacking. Thus, I should perhaps mention that Erevan has an aura that causes enemies with 10 feet to lose their immunity to fear and also take a -4 penalty to saves vs. fear. Not sure how relevant it is, but I thought to mention it since intimidation and fear and stuff were brought up.
1) I've moved Felrin up a bit on the map, though I don't think any place is particularly safe... If Erevan, and hopefully the good doctor, will join me, that's where he'll be. Seems to make more sense to kill the treant than to fight his animated trees.
2) Thanks very much for that ruling, and the reason for it!
OK, I think everyone has acted for Round 1 (apart from Ottakar, but I can leave him out for the moment); Tkaara & Etna get to go in Round 2, and then it's the treants again.