Please introduce yourself, and add a note about any previous experience you have had with Rise of the Runelords, and maybe what sort of character(s) you are interested in.
Also, please note if there are any optional rules you prefer. For instance, I am ok with Background Skills and Drawbacks, but only if we want them as a group. Otherwise my rules are pretty simple. Paizo products only (just because I have enough rules already!) Standard 20 pt stat buy.
I am only inviting 4 players to try and keep things clean and fast. I would also like to commit to posting 2 or more times a day (when practical). If this proves to be too crazy, we can re-examine it, but I suspect a few of us have been through Book 1 a time or two already.
One nice thing about this AP (unlike Giantslayer) is that there will be downtime, so if you want to craft, you can.
For characters, I am only asking that everyone either has come from Sandpoint, or has some strong personal connection. My basic thinking is that you are familiar with the town, but have been off training for 5 (or many) years, and are returning for some reason that includes the dedication of a new cathedral. So taking one of the traits from the campaign is preferred (but not strictly necessary). I want you to think of it as "your village", but there will need to be some exploration for you to get to know places and people, which feels weird if you were always here.
So - let's have fun and see where this story leads!
|GM Red Box|
Hi there folks.
GM Red Box here, aka Ryan. This will be my fourth attempt at running Runelords and I have yet to make it past the door of the Glassworks. I did read the first book but that was close to when it came out so about a decade ago.
As far as rules, I really would like Background Skills if only to make low skill point characters three dimensional. A fighter or cleric with two skill points is about the worst.
As far as what I want to play goes I would like to hold off on that answer as I have given it no thought. I would prefer to focus on the character not the mechanics so I can get behind a lot of things because I know we have a consistent GM. Beyond that, crafting yes.
I did actually recently bail on a Giantslayer campaign. I was running 3 simultaneously, and the paperwork and mental effort to keep them all separated was too taxing- I kept confusing who had already done what! When I took on all 3, I expected much attrition and so intended to combine them, but that didn't really happen! I was going to spots to most of the smallest group into my other two, but they opted to look for (and found) another GM. So I continue to watch over them...
But because I was finding myself a little overwhelmed, I have wrapped up a few games, and dropped a few that were just feeling more like work than play. Also, I was swamped and not sure I would have time this summer, but a few of my projects wrapped up, and another fell through. So I am down to a few that I either really enjoy, or a couple that move so slow anyway it wasn't bothering me to stay.
So I found myself looking for more games and decided I would rather GM. Go figure!
So I do intend to run to the end, but wanted to give fair warning that I can't always deliver on my promises... (I did invite at least one of that abandoned group to this game as well.)
I am very excited about doing this. I have been waiting a long time for a chance to play RotR. I haven't played any of it and I haven't read any of the books yet so I'm a brand new player (for this AP).
Really looking forward to it.
I would like to use the background skills as well. It could make for better RP.
I need to start thinking about what character to bring. I'll do some of that tonight.
A brief call in and say hi before i go to bed. 1.30am has just sneaked up on me and shouted "BOO!" :)
I've played book one and am currently GMing a home game of book two for a bunch of (relative) newbies to RPGs and Pathfinder. I was pretty unhappy when the game i played fell through and wanted to see more of the story. That certainly influenced my choice to run new people through Runelords.
I've been GMing for a number of years now and i like to think i've got pretty good at separating GM/Player knowledge from character knowledge so i don't think that will be a problem.
I've loved introducing my players to Sandpoint and will certainly be keen to make a character who feels like they belong there.
I'm all for using background skills as that system is a great may make skills stretch a little further.
I don't have any specific ideas for a character off the top of my head. I do like the idea of a campaign where crafting is a valid option, even if it isn't my character that gets to do the crafting.
I'll have a think while keeping an eye on the discussion and between us all i'm sure we'll come up with a group of characters we all like.
Hey guys. I like background skills too, glad to have them. Drawbacks are fun too.
As for my Runelords experience, I've played in 2 iterations of the AP here on the boards, but both died quickly. One right as we were getting into the glassworks, the other I came in as replacement later on (late Book 2 or early Book 3, I think), and it promptly died before I hit the next level. So I haven't seen much. Both of hose were Gestalt games, interestingly enough.
As far as character go, I tend to shy away from full casters. While I do have a soft spot for Druids, the sheer breadth and depth of spell choices full casters have available to them is...daunting. When I do have casting, I tend to lean toward spontaneous casters, for the same reason. I'd rather have a small, focused group of spells than a bunch to decide between every day. (I do have a soft spot for Magi though, perhaps in part because Spell Recall turns them into pseudo-spontaneous casters.) Martials or gish-y partial casters tend to be more my speed.
I looked through my books last night and consulted with my son who is a virtual walking encyclopedia of Pathfinder knowledge and I think I've decided on a halfling swashbuckler. Not sure if I'm going to go with a straight up swashy or one of the archetypes. I'm ruminating on the character itself. What kind of personality, etc.
It might take me a couple more days to flesh it out.
When are we wanting to start playing?
I am not in a hurry to get started, but am ready once all of the characters are in. I think maybe let's shoot for Monday? That gives you all some time (and a weekend) to work on it.
Remember, this is a fairly long endeavor, and your character should be level 17 or 18 by the end, so think a little about the future, but remember to be able to survive long enough to have one!
|GM Red Box|
I am leaning towards one of the classes I have not played yet or at least not played past 3rd level.
Looks like MindXing is going melee and Ouachitonian tends to prefer melee or limited casting. I have started this three times as a cleric and all three times the game has died so I am not sure if my mind can do that again.
Still rolling it around but glad that one option is at least off the table. That helps.
Ha! Yah, I hate that.
I will give you a few notes about me that might help. First, this is a long haul campaign, so I don't want anyone disappointed with their character and level 3 or 4 and feel stuck. So if you really want to re-do some things, I will generally allow it, unless it just feels like crazy power gaming. Sometimes it may require a cost, but I have been known to just let people swap out a useless feat or make a new spell selection.
I enjoy fun and interesting characters, but not necessarily overly complex ones. Some of the best characters I have played or GMd have been the simple human fighter or halfling rogue. But if you got something unusual you want to try, give it a shot. Be forewarned, though- if I have to look up 800 rules for your character each time you take an action, I am gonna hold a grudge. :) Ok, probably not... but if you want something complex, I do ask that you give me quick access to the info I need. In fact, spellcasters really impress me when they give me their DC as part of their post.
I am also not a big fan of gimmicky characters. For instance, I had one game where a guy was riding a gorilla, and they both had teamwork feats that complimented each other so well that any opponent was subjected to like 6 AoOs from each anytime they made a move. It was legal, efficient and an impressive (ab)use of the rules, but it was just not fun to watch. I kind of wondered why he was role-playing instead of video gaming. On the other hand, I have a halfling swashbuckler in a game now that likes to climb up larger opponents, and that can be quite entertaining! Of course, it doesn't always work out well...
I don't have any classes that I hate. Gunslingers, ninjas, druids, barbarians, paladins, alchemists, etc are all welcome. As a player, my go-to class is often the investigator, or a rogue/monk mix. Neither seems very powerful, but both tend to be versatile.
As far as the AP is concerned, I think there is going to be a need for all types. Definitely some crazy combats, and the AP says right out in the start that powerful magic will be needed by the end. Most of us already know there will be haunts and undead, but also a fair amount of intrigue and diplomatic situations.
Not sure if any of that helped or not. Probably made it worse, didn't I?
I guess it's always handy to have a spread of skills and abilities through a group:
At least one character with healing spells.
At least one character who can do something about traps.
At least one character who can get in close to enemies.
At least one character who can deal with ranged threats.
It's possible to mix and match some things and cover a couple of bases with class choices or a little multiclassing of course.
I lean towards classes with some ability to heal although not specifically the main healer. I guess i just like to have a character who can save themselves or the 'main' healer when the going gets tough.
I don't have any specific ideas in mind for something i would like to play though. I'm another of those players who starts looking at ideas i have and just ends up with more options rather than narrowing down my choices!
|GM Red Box|
Ok folks what do you think of a human gunslinger(pistol)/paladin of the Drunken God. Born in Sandpoint but sent to the five kings mountains to learn smithing. Found both drink and a newfangled technology. Studied with the dwarves, particularly how to fight larger creatures. (big game hunter)
Level one would be gunslinger and then the next two paladin. A few gunslinger levels after that for sure.
There are a few downsides. First and for most I am multi-classing pretty heavy which always has downsides. Second I will have to make all my weapons myself. Third, stuck in the feat tax crap for point blank, precise shot and rapid shot. Finally, paladins are trickey RP. I think I can deal with that though the character having a slightly different perspective.
Personality: After spending more then ten years with the dwarves he/she was still considered a child and that began to chafe. He/she took a pistol in the middle of the night and left. While approaching mid 30's he/she had never fully matured due to being treated as a child. Impetuous and prone to reckless action with the ability to buckle down when needed. It was on the trip back to Sandpoint that a 'god' spoke to him/her form the bottom of a glass. Real of fake he/she now believes that they are a chosen disciple and will carry out righteous vengeance for his home town. Is he/she chosen? Time will tell if divine spells become available to prove it is not just he/she being a bit off.
Real feedback is welcome as I am not wedded in any way.
Of course I am also thinking a druid, Occultist or slayer. This is just the most thought through.
Side note the Paladin archetype that uses a gun sucks.
Speaking of Feat Taxes, can we use this system for reducing/eliminating them? I hadn't thought about it until you mentioned it, but it would also help me quite a bit. I think I've decided on an elf magus. I want to take Breadth of Experience, which really only makes sense to take at 1st Level (to me anyway). But I'm building a Dex Magus, and waiting to 3 for Weapon Finesse is annoying at best. the Eliminating Feat Tax rules would solve that nicely.
|GM Red Box|
Magus is my favorite class in the game so always love to see one. Would the plan be to go finesse weapons throughout or get to slashing grace? That might be too far out to answer and I realize that.
We have a full BAB, 2/3 arcane and a little divine so we are covering bases at least. I am not 100% on the Gunladin, just looking at what is out there.
I love the gunslinger paladin - it sounds like a fun concept, I think it will fit well in the campaign, and of course you can use a wand of CLW as soon as you take a level of paladin, so you have ranged, healing, and probably decent melee. An occultist might also be interesting in this campaign, though...
Dex magus is also a fine choice. And I like that you are thinking knowledge.
So, let's talk feat tax. I agree, some of these have always seemed excessive to me. And I thought about ways to give you all a little more oomph and decided against, so I think we can do something here. I read through the list and think we can use it, but I would like to make 1 change:
Improved Trip, Improved Disarm, Improved Reposition - Gone. Replaced with Deft Maneuvers.
Improved Dirty Trick, Improved Feint, Improved Steal - Gone. Replaced with Bluff Maneuvers
I think getting all 6 as 1 feat is too much, especially if we have already eliminated the need for Combat Expertise, Power Attack, etc.
Everyone ok with less feat tax?
EDIT: Keep in mind, the same rules will apply to the bad guys... :)
|GM Red Box|
Ok I might have it worked out.
Race TBD Gunslinger (Musket Master) / Paladin (Divine Hunter)
1 - Gunslinger
2 - Paladin
By level six he/she will be three and three. After that I anticipate sticking with paladin for the rest. So he/she will not be a big time caster but will be good enough, have some utility and hit pretty hard.
This will be a little resource heavy at the start as I will be very dependent on making alchemical cartridges to keep reload to a move action.
Changing up the backstory from what I had said I think. Working on the him/her being the child of a merchant family. His/her musket arrived broken on with some other antiques and instead of it become some sort of weird broken decoration he/she took it and fixed it. First he/she had to learn to be blacksmithing and then gunsmithing.
Thoughts from GM or other players?
I did try building an occultist but I just don't think I fully get the class enough to be useful in a four person party.
I think your plan sounds good. So we have:
I think we probably need a divine healer. We're also short on skills. What other class is someone thinking of?
As for the feat tax rules, the mod, in herolab, won't let me use Martial Mastery. Says that I have to be human.
Here is my initial idea. Very much a work in progress. The story is mostly placeholder but linking to a smith would make sense.
What are we doing for starting gold? Did you say that and I missed it?
If you go for the Inspired Blade archetype on your Swashbuckler, you get INT to panache, which gives a reason to put a few points there and have more skills. I’ve got a Sylph Inspired Blade in another game that’s that campaign’s skills guy. There’s a trait to get Disable Device as a class skill I took also. It does lock you into using a rapier, though.
You can go ahead and max starting gold for your class. Also, max HP for level 1. After that, you can choose to roll or take the average (like PFS).
I don't think you need a dedicated healer, unless you really want to be one.
Regarding Martial Mastery - according to the Elephant in the Room rules, that feat is just gone (unnecessary), so you can't take it. If you could, though, it is a human only feat.
I installed the Hero Lab custom add-on for that mod list lastnight but it was getting quite late so i didn't get to play about with it.
I was also feeling like we were low on skills and could do with some extra healing options. I've been looking for alternate ways of trying to cover both those bases and have been looking at either an investigator or possibly an alchemist with the chirurgeon archetype - i'd very likely go for healing bombs and/or the infusion discovery to make extracts work on my friends for whichever option i went for.
Deciding on being a skilful alchemical expert at least narrows down the general theme for the character so will help me come up with a backstory and guide me in working out the characters ties to Sandpoint.
This is starting to sound like a fun group.
Sami Rackham Female Halforc Gunslinger 1/Paladin 0 (GM Red Box)
Halfling Swashbuckler (MindXing)
Alchemist Type (Luthor Volandis)
Based on the notes so far, I am thinking the "flavor" of this campaign will be somewhere between Pirates of the Caribbean and Victorian London... which looks like it will fit fine with the material in the AP!
I am going to start posting some information about Sandpoint in Gameplay, so you can get to know what your characters should already know.
Never played with a catfolk before, but I don't have a problem with it.
However, I do want you all to be fairly closely tied to Sandpoint, and there really is no catfolk population here. So perhaps you are a sailor or hired caravan guard who has visited often and just taken a liking to the place? As such, you may know less history, but have more current knowledge of some of the locals?
Also, just so Sami is aware, the population of half-orcs in Sandpoint is listed as 12. Given your backstory, that isn't an issue, but just wanted you to know.
If fact, here are some stats for Sandpoint:
SANDPOINT, LIGHT OF THE LOST COAST
NG small town
Corruption +0; Crime +0; Economy +1; Law +0; Lore +2; Society +0
Qualities prosperous, rumormongering citizens
Danger + O
Government autocracy (Mayor Kendra Deverin, whom you do not personally know)
Population 1,240 (1,116 humans, 37 halflings, 25 elves, 24 dwarves, 13 gnomes, 13 half-elves, 12 half-orcs)
Base Value 1,300 gp; Purchase Limit 7,500 gp; Spellcasting 4th
About 60 years ago, settlers from the southern nation of Cheliax have come to Varisia. The city of Magnimar was settled by colonists dissatisfied with the strong reliance on Chelish support in Eastern Varisia, and before long the need for additional farmland grew apparent. To the south, the sloppy expanse of the Mushfens made farming difficult, so the settlers turned their eyes north along the Lost Coast. For much of its length, the coast offered little shelter, with one exception-a perfect cove about 50 miles away from Magnimar. A cove overlooked by a curious stone ruin.
The foundation of a new town is not a matter to be taken lightly, nor one to be funded by a single investor. Four powerful families from Magnimar had designs on the region, and rather than work against each other, they consolidated their efforts and formed the Sandpoint Mercantile League. These four families, the Kaijitsus (glassmakers), the Valdemars (shipbuilders), the Scarnettis (loggers), and the Deverins (farmers and brewers)-sailed north to claim their land after securing the rights from Magnimar. Yet when they arrived in the spring of 4666 AR, they found the place already settled by a large tribe of Varisians.
Refusing to be set back, the Sandpoint Mercantile League began a series of talks with the Varisians, promising them an important place in the new township. Unfortunately, after a week of talks that seemed to be going nowhere, an impatient man named Alamon Scarnetti took matters into his own hands. Rounding up a group of his brothers and cousins, the Scarnettis mounted a murderous raid on the Varisian camp, intent on killing them all and leaving evidence to blame local goblins for the deed. Yet the Scarnettis, too drunk and over-confident, managed to kill only five Varisians before they were themselves forced to flee, leaving behind three of their own.
The Sandpoint Mercantile League fled back to Magnimar, and in the months to follow were embroiled in the repercus sions of Alamon's assault. Magnimar's Varisian Council demanded punishment for all four families, but the High Court arbitrated a peace between them, in no small thanks to the remarkable diplomatic skills of a young bard and member of one of the families accused-Almah Deverin. Not only did she manage to assuage the Varisians' call for blood payment, she also managed to salvage the plans for Sandpoint by promising not only to incorporate the worship of Desna into the new town's cathedral, but also to pay the Varisian Council a generous share of any profits made by Sandpoint businesses over the course of the next 40 years. One year later, the Sandpoint Mercantile League began construction on several buildings with the full cooperation of the Varisian people. In the years since Sandpoint's foundation, the settlement has flourished.
Although the initial term of the compact with the Varisian Council has passed, Sandpoint's government has elected to extend the compact another 20 years, much to the consternation of a few locals.
Today, Sandpoint is a thriving community. Many industries, including fishing, lumber, farming, hunting, brewing, shipbuilding, tanning, and glassmaking, have boomed, luring skilled laborers from as far as Korvosa and Riddleport to relocate here. Yet Sandpoint's location on the Lost Coast has also recently drawn settlers of another bent. As explorers and adventurers begin to piece together the fragments of ancient Thassilon's influence over the region so long ago, Varisia's Thassilonian ruins have acted as a magnet for such lore-seekers. The Old Light is no exception, and a few of Sandpoint's recent arrivals are more interested in this ruin than anything else. Throughout its history, Sandpoint has been thankfully free of major disasters . Every winter brings its share of strong storms, yet the natural harbor, sandbars, and cliffs do a remarkable job of blunting the force of wind and wave, leaving the town relatively unscathed. Elders in town spin yarns of a few really big storms, but apart from the town's somewhat rocky beginning with the Varisians, only two events have really qualified as disasters: the Chopper and the Sandpoint Fire. These two events, occurring in such close and recent proximity as they have, are generally lumped together as the "Late Unpleasantness ," even though the incidents didn't have any links. Natives of Sandpoint are reluctant to talk about either event, preferring to look ahead to brighter times.
|GM Red Box|
Knowing that Catfolk wouldn't be common in Sandpoint, I had some initial thoughts on the backstory. Will this work?
Tiyuvi is a male Catfolk. He ran away from home as a young kid due to a bad home situation several years ago. (His mom died and his dad became abusive, I know, dark...) He bounced from town to town just living on the streets. He developed his Criminal trait during this time. Eventually he made it to Sandpoint and terrorized the people there with petty crimes. However, one day he stole too much from the wrong person and he had to flee town to avoid getting put into prison forever. While away, he had a crisis of conscious and turned his life around. He's lived the last few years as an honest citizen in various locations. He has always been drawn to Sandpoint and has recently returned with the intention of making things right, if possible. Of course, the events of this AP may interrupt his efforts.
@GMRedBox - You were sent to Sandpoint to live with (and apprentice under) Das Korvut, a bald and powerfully muscled man whose temper is short. He has little patience for customers, and even less for everyone else, but he tolerated your presence. He owns the Red Dog Smithy (#15), named for its owner's affection for large red mastiffs, two to three of which can always be seen lounging about nearby. Sandpoint suffers his foulmouthed attitude and frequent drunken midnight rants because he really does know his job, and as long as he's busy hammering metal, he stays relatively calm and confined to his smithy. When you left to make your fortune, he grunted a simple good-bye, but you always felt like there was some warmth and sadness behind it. You both used to frequent Risa's Tavern (#13), nearby.
@MindXing - I can work with that. (Terrorized might be a bit too strong...) I'll work on some details.
I think I have her mostly worked out. Players and GM feel free to check over the profile or Herolab (linked) and give feedback.
I'm thinking about using the Mindblade Archetype from Occult Adventures. It has some really nice abilities, but it also converts the Magus to a spontaneous Psychic caster, which has a couple of significant drawbacks: 1) concentration checks go way up, so you have to be much more careful about casting defensively and 2) spontaneous casting means a much more limited array of spells are available to me (and I can't use arcane or divine scrools). Number 2 I'd normally consider a boon, since I like spontaneous over prepared casting in general, but with our low amount of casting, do y'all think that would be too much of a hindrance?