I dunno how bright it is to send a guy who's spent his lifetime stopping evil mages something obviously via magic, and then use secrecy to obscure any clue to their identity...
He's not paranoid, but I don't think he'd need to be.
How about a mythic archmage who somehow had a party invitation sent to his private abode on another plane of existence that he himself made and has been putting protections around for the last 4000-ish years? Playing true-to-form Bel's paranoia levels would have been cranked up to 11! However, as a player, I get that it's just a mechanic and don't question it too much in character. Is that metagaming? Perhaps a bit, but as it's for the betterment of the story i'm going to roll with it.
Let me know when the day arrives and Bel will make his way to the grounds.
Also, is this the type of event where the participants are encouraged to make a grand entrance or humbly show up?
With DM's permission and approval Belgraen is going to make great use of the Simulacra spell. However, typically not for combat purposes, but instead for utility and being the scenes reasons.
I'm aware that this is one of those spells that could easily get out of hand, but I'm planning on using it more for behind the scenes plot reasons than anything else. Please note that even though it's not technically required (anymore) I always consider needing a piece of the creature to be duplicated necessary. It's a bit old school, but I feel it adds a degree of flavor and helps reduce cheesefactor a bit. Most of the time he'll simply copy himself so that he can have able/loyal assistants. He makes them over time for free using blood money, the same way he has set up his permanent telepathy information network (Time + Strength Damage + restoration. Possessing stronger creatures via magic jar as needed). Also note that each one of them is technically an NPC and I have no problem letting the DM use them as mouthpieces or plot devices. I'm even fine with them "dying" as needed, in singles or in droves. For example if there's a siege on a city I may have them come in order to supplement the city defense. If they die in this then so be it. Better artificial life lost than real. Etc.
However, with the exception of unforeseen need they'll typically be more in the form of keeping updated on world events. He puts at least one simulacra of himself in every major metropolis in the world. These simulacra are all different looking thanks to the sculpt simulacra spell and they adopt various roles in order to blend in. They tend to stick to simple roles in order to maintain a low profile, but they're connected enough that they'll have a good feel for what's actually going on. I plan to have at least one low level librarian in any library of note. That way I can have them research a particular topic and feed me information while I continue adventuring or what not. Mechanically I suppose it'd be a knowledge check with access to an epic library as many assist rolls as you feel appropriate. They generally go about the world and try to make it better by assisting where they can. Think of them as the backbone of a network very similar to the Harpers from Forgotten Realms.
A major limitation to this telepathic network is that it doesn't work across planes and I'm usually not on the material plane.
Anywho, I've ranted a bit, but I wanted to get some feedback.
1) Are you generally ok with this as a concept? I know many DMs have strong feelings about simulacra.
2) If the fact that I can technically make them for free is of concern then i'd be happy to make a compromise in the form of an item that makes them. That way it would still be cost effective for the character, but still limit wealth. Either that or we can call this part of the extra million for holdings. Just let me know what you'd prefer.
3) If you're completely opposed to Simulacra I could simply set up the telepathy network to accomplish something similar with followers. It's not my preference as I think an ancient archmage would prefer copies of himself. Also, if they were simulacra I could standardize them to keep book keeping to a minimum. However, your call.
4) If copying myself do I effectively build a 12th level version of myself? I believe so, but wanted to clarify.
Also, I'm back at home and done traveling for the year. I should be able to make significant progress in completing all of Belgraen's details in the next few weeks.
I dunno how bright it is to send a guy who's spent his lifetime stopping evil mages something obviously via magic, and then use secrecy to obscure any clue to their identity...
He's not paranoid, but I don't think he'd need to be.
How about a mythic archmage who somehow had a party invitation sent to his private abode on another plane of existence that he himself made and has been putting protections around for the last 4000-ish years? Playing true-to-form Bel's paranoia levels would have been cranked up to 11! However, as a player, I get that it's just a mechanic and don't question it too much in character. Is that metagaming? Perhaps a bit, but as it's for the betterment of the story i'm going to roll with it.
I understand that. But the GM also knows that. Where does "know your audience" stop and "just roll with it" begin?
Help me RP my character AND get the desired outcome, all I ask. Help me help you :)
I'm not meaning to be a hard ass here...
I dunno how bright it is to send a guy who's spent his lifetime stopping evil mages something obviously via magic, and then use secrecy to obscure any clue to their identity...
He's not paranoid, but I don't think he'd need to be.
How about a mythic archmage who somehow had a party invitation sent to his private abode on another plane of existence that he himself made and has been putting protections around for the last 4000-ish years? Playing true-to-form Bel's paranoia levels would have been cranked up to 11! However, as a player, I get that it's just a mechanic and don't question it too much in character. Is that metagaming? Perhaps a bit, but as it's for the betterment of the story i'm going to roll with it.
I understand that. But the GM also knows that. Where does "know your audience" stop and "just roll with it" begin?
Help me RP my character AND get the desired outcome, all I ask.
I'm not meaning to be a hard ass here...
It'll be a learning curve for all of us.
Its to represent finding or borrowing spellbooks. At 25 level, it would be 125 spells. Which, I can totally understand is a lot to just hand out for free. However, since he still needs to prepare them, he's not really getting as much millage as say a sorcerer who got 125 bonus spells known.
That being said, I propose the following compromises, which we can use either or both:
1) The 125 spells cost half as much to add to your spellbook.
2) You get 125 spell levels for free, which could be 13 9th level spells, 125 1st level spells, or whatever combination suits you.
As a non book based caster, nor even having a cohort who uses one, this is totally something I am doing to try and help those of you who do have spellbooks. The extra spells is something a lot of other GMs have used/allowed, so its not like I am making this up wholesale just for this game.
I'd like to revisit this conversation please. I don't believe there was an official answer, but as I'm going to calculate my spells I kinda need one.
To flat our purchase one scroll of every spell on the PFSRD is 997,150 GP. AKA: Holy F*** expensive. Do-able and possibly worth it, but still. In order to properly calculate I need to subtract my free spells.
If I need to reduce costs I may make lists of spells I don't have. It'd be shorter.
I've decided to rethink Miltoque's class. I've decided that a reincarnated druid would be much better. He's a caster style druid who has a lot of skills cultivated over many lifetimes. Presently he is a human. He's presently a chef in this lifetime because he usually looks for a new skill to master.
I'm building him in hero builder, so it should go much faster.
Alright. He might want to consider a different manner of contacting first timers.
Validk could have chosen another way to reach out. However...
Belgraen's sheet says "He has taken painstaking measures to prevent discovery." Which includes mindblank himself.
Dark Tempest has barred mind, which is akin to mindblank, and though tactics are not listed, is likely frequently activated since it is a one day duration.
Lord Rook "no longer exists on the Material Plane. When he visits, via plane-shifted astral projection..." and "his paranoia now is mostly focused on protecting his identity and secrets, as he weaves together half a dozen redundant layers of proof against divination spells targeting his person."
I haven't seen Monkeygod's character yet, but it is likely similar.
Validk also keeps a mindblank up.
Therefore, a GM mechanic is pretty much a necessity when the original rules were so loosely written on character goals and purpose. Otherwise it would likely be an adventure all on its own for Validk to even attempt to track everyone down.
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@Lord Rook, if the "While the thin layer of lead he wears under his clothing" blocks true seeing, then it also blocks all of your casting and manifesting.
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@Belgraen:
To questions asked:
Simulcra can be used, your character is likely wise enough to know it would be a very bad idea to use a simulcra for the party, this would likely be considered hostile due to the lack of personal risk by having a stand in, and may be considered a serious breach of edicate, not to mention pledges through proxies would not be deemed acceptable.
Simulcra is pretty expensive, each of your doubles will cost you 6000 gold, and not be mythic.
What's the range on your telepathic bond? I'm not comfortable with a global range. Unless you can point to another object with such a range.
How are you making simulcra for free? 6k is pretty hefty. I would not be inclined to allow an item that provides 6k items for free. You wouldn't want to pay the cost I would demand for such an artifact (which is what it would be).
The simulcra would be lesser versions of yourself, but for the purposes of this spell, not gestalt. Pick one of your 2 classes, give the simulcra 12 levels in it. You may have simulcra's of both classes at the same time, no dips.
5 free spells of each spell level for spellbook type characters is fine (cohorts have to pay full costs, though they can copy from their master).
You would need to list every spell you are buying especially if you plan on using 83% of your available wealth to buy them. I have a feeling that you may find you can't afford all of them. And unless you are neutral/evil, why would you want all of them?
Validk could have chosen another way to reach out. However...
Belgraen's sheet says "He has taken painstaking measures to prevent discovery." Which includes mindblank himself.
Dark Tempest has barred mind, which is akin to mindblank, and though tactics are not listed, is likely frequently activated since it is a one day duration.
Lord Rook "no longer exists on the Material Plane. When he visits, via plane-shifted astral projection..." and "his paranoia now is mostly focused on protecting his identity and secrets, as he weaves together half a dozen redundant layers of proof against divination spells targeting his person."
I haven't seen Monkeygod's character yet, but it is likely similar.
Validk also keeps a mindblank up.
FYI: Belgraen is also doing the Astral Projection trick also. I'm not sure why any high level caster worth his salt wouldn't.
====
@Belgraen:
To questions asked:
Simulcra can be used, your character is likely wise enough to know it would be a very bad idea to use a simulcra for the party, this would likely be considered hostile due to the lack of personal risk by having a stand in, and may be considered a serious breach of edicate, not to mention pledges through proxies would not be deemed acceptable.
Simulcra is pretty expensive, each of your doubles will cost you 6000 gold, and not be mythic.
Even with matters of diplomacy aside, I wouldn't use a simulacra stand in as a party member. If nothing else they'd be less than effective given that they're effectively 12 th level.
What's the range on your telepathic bond? I'm not comfortable with a global range. Unless you can point to another object with such a range.
It's not a class feature. It's the Telepathic Bond spell. "Once the bond is formed, it works over any distance (although not from one plane to another)". So basically you cast it and make it permanent. They target only needs to be present when you cast it.
How are you making simulcra for free? 6k is pretty hefty. I would not be inclined to allow an item that provides 6k items for free. You wouldn't want to pay the cost I would demand for such an artifact (which is what it would be).
The cost of creating the simulacra, and permanency for that matter, is easily subsumed in the use of Blood Money. I'd have to take 12 strength damage each time I made one so it's not something he would do every day. Perhaps just a couple per year, but over time that's quite a few.
The simulcra would be lesser versions of yourself, but for the purposes of this spell, not gestalt. Pick one of your 2 classes, give the simulcra 12 levels in it. You may have simulcra's of both classes at the same time, no dips.
That was my plan. I wasn't going to make them Gestalt. I assumed the spell wouldn't have the power to grant that or Mythic. They're fancy puppets more than anything else.
5 free spells of each spell level for spellbook type characters is fine (cohorts have to pay full costs, though they can copy from their master).
5 free spells per level works for me.
You would need to list every spell you are buying especially if you plan on using 83% of your available wealth to buy them. I have a feeling that you may find you can't afford all of them. And unless you are neutral/evil, why would you want all of them?
I sincerely doubt I'll use them all. I was simply hoping to reduce my book keeping. No worries though. I'll just pick the ones I want and do the math for them.
Just as a note. Simulacra are quasi-real creatures. They live, they age, they die, etc. I know my duplicates wouldn't be immortal, but as elves they'd be long lived enough of my purposes.
Permanent Telepathic Bond only requires a level 13 wizard (or in Rook's case, a level 13 wizard scroll+UMD). It's pretty affordable, and useful for most high-level parties.
As for "a thin layer of lead"—it doesn't cover his eyes, and it doesn't "block" true seeing, just makes it hard to see that he's a mummy (since his "true form" is just "a guy covered in lead". Technically, True Seeing doesn't see through clothing anyway, so that may have been unnecessary on my part.
Validk could have chosen another way to reach out. However...
Belgraen's sheet says "He has taken painstaking measures to prevent discovery." Which includes mindblank himself.
Dark Tempest has barred mind, which is akin to mindblank, and though tactics are not listed, is likely frequently activated since it is a one day duration.
Lord Rook "no longer exists on the Material Plane. When he visits, via plane-shifted astral projection..." and "his paranoia now is mostly focused on protecting his identity and secrets, as he weaves together half a dozen redundant layers of proof against divination spells targeting his person."
I haven't seen Monkeygod's character yet, but it is likely similar.
Validk also keeps a mindblank up.Therefore, a GM mechanic is pretty much a necessity when the original rules were so loosely written on character goals and purpose. Otherwise it would likely be an adventure all on its own for Validk to even attempt to track everyone down.
I don't care how he knows about DT or even how he tracked him down, or even how he got the letter in there. It's the content of the message, and the inability to verify the sender's identity.
He clearly spent some coin on delivering the letter. Why not add an actual trinket for newcomers with a programmed image spell (or whatever would suffice)with a small speech that explains who he is and what the conclave is? Something to get a sense of the host from?
Should we consider who among us might know each other?
That would be a good way to verify things...
That would be a good way to verify things...
For example if you knew me the you could just send a message and ask, "What the hell is this?"
We'd just need to decide why and how we knew each other.
That works. Would you support a relatively young psionic mage hunter?
That works. Would you support a relatively young psionic mage hunter?
If you were hunting evil mages, then sure.
Edit: I'd verify your motives then point you toward those who would misuse magic. I'd even give you pointers on how to succeed.
I'm sure he probably needed help upping his game at the higher levels.
And yes, you know he mostly goes after cultists, UR priests, evil conjurors, etc. and mages that abuse their power and enslaves others with it.
I'm sure he probably needed help upping his game at the higher levels.
And yes, you know he mostly goes after cultists, UR priests, evil conjurors, etc. and mages that abuse their power and enslaves others with it.
In that case Bel is definitely an ally and you can feel free to contact him.
Can he call you "old Bel", homage to obi wan?
:P
Davin is actually a rather public and somewhat famous persona. While he's cautious, he isn't ovely paranoid or protective. It isn't to hard to reach/contact him.
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Can he call you "old Bel", homage to obi wan?
:P
Not if you expect him to respond. :-)
Spells picked and paid for via scrolls and Blessed books for scribing. I'm mid-process of picking the rest of my gear. Presently I have about 200K left to spend.
They are however on Archive of Nethys, which I'm rather fond of as a site.
Spell research is cool, but I suppose it would depend on which spells you're trying to duplicate.
What do y'all think about scrapping automatic bonus progression due to the confusion over weapons and armor? There would be a compensation in gold.
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Also, I'd like others thoughts on wizard spell research. I would like to research a few arcane versions of divine spells. There is some precedent for this already. I propose a limit on the total number of spells, and an imposition that such spells are at least one level higher than their divine version.====
I don't like the campaign setting chronicles of righteousness as most of it is not on d20pfsrd. This includes the obedience's, boons, etc.
I like auto progression. It saves me from having to buy a bunch of stuff for the sake of necessity. It frees up my time and gp for more interesting stuff. I think we'll clear up any confusion as we go. No biggie.
Id leave researched spells to DM approval. Presently I have one.
I'd like to keep ABP.
Fnord,
We should probably limit how much you can spend via monies created via Blood Money, in general, not just during character creation.
With most of the party being arcane casters, and **stupid** easy access to restoration spells, it can quickly get insanely out of hand.
Seconded. It's stupid easy to make stuff for free via blood money if you plan enough in advance. Just let me know what the limit is and I'll adhere to that.
What's your suggestion TCG? Within reason, of course.
What's your suggestion TCG? Within reason, of course.
I'm not sure. It's a perfectly RAW spells and I rather like it. It gives wizards the ability to have some cool behind the scenes stuff like permanency effects in the stronghold that will most likely never come into play. However, I get why it might give a DM pause. I think the crux of the concern is a concern about offensive things.
As a compromise how about anything offensive, my Arsenal for example, would have to be done during game time? Currently the characters have ten days between when the letter arrives and the summit.
those ten days aren't game time, this is still preamble, especially since characters are not yet complete.
That's fine, but not the core of the point. It was more of an afterthought.
Just keep in mind, too many, or too much and I get to have fun with
"If one abjuration spell is active within 10 feet of another for 24 hours or more, the magical fields interfere with each other and create barely visible energy fluctuations."
That's totally fair, but keep in mind it's for abjuration and not just any spell.
Edit: Glyph of warding, however, is abjuration. That means that the arrows would shimmer and be very obviously magic.
i see interfere meaning potential for catastrophic mishaps, fizzles, rips in the planar bindings, all sorts of fun stuff can happen.
It's how a GM keep someone from stacking 500 explosive runes on the same rock.
It clearly states the result. "Create barely visible energy fluctuations." There's nothing that indicates catrostropic failure. If you're going to do that I'd like to know about that particular house rule in advance. Or preferably simply ask the player not to carry an explosive runes rocks. Asking is going to cause far fewer issues then randomly exploding your players.
"the magical fields interfere with each other and create barely visible energy fluctuations"
is not
the magical fields interfere with each other by creating barely visible energy fluctuations
This does not mean that I will do this, it just means that trying to push a reaonable limit may cause something to occur.
If you're going to house rule please just do so and I'll work with it. Your justification statement is incorrect.
And is a conjunction. In this case it's a cause effect statement. This happens and that happens. X happens and creates Y.
Your "by" statement reverses the relationship. It would indicate that the energy fluctuations cause the interference.
Also, I have no way to know what you'd consider "a reasonable limit." 2? 4? 12? 874?
Please simply tell me what you will allow and that's how I'll proceed. The vague threat statements aren't productive or fun. You're the DM. You don't really need justification to blow someone up, but it's not exactly fun either.
Out of Core alone, I counted roughly 9 abjuration spells a high level arcane caster could be considered to possibly have active at any one time, especially right before a big boss battle.
Add in the other books, as well as perhaps some divine spells(Are there divine abjuration spells? lol), and I could easily see the total closing in on 20.
Out of Core alone, I counted roughly 9 abjuration spells a high level arcane caster could be considered to possibly have active at any one time, especially right before a big boss battle.
Add in the other books, as well as perhaps some divine spells(Are there divine abjuration spells? lol), and I could easily see the total closing in on 20.
I think the concern is more about my glyph of warding arrows. I could theoretically have any number of those in close proximity.
You can't use glyph of warding arrows, as the spell specifically lists out the things that can be protected. While 'and so on' is at the end of the list, arrowheads definitely do not fall in the same category as the rest of things you can ward.
You can't use glyph of warding arrows, as the spell specifically lists out the things that can be protected. While 'and so on' is at the end of the list, arrowheads definitely do not fall in the same category as the rest of things you can ward.
They're not actually arrowheads.
They're small Arrowhead shaped container is fletched to the end of an arrow. These containers are designed to open upon striking a surface or landing in flesh or dirt.
If the "fired from a bow" thing is an issue then a similar thrown device could be configured. The shape isn't the problem.
I just need to know if the house rule that they might randomly explode is going to be implemented.
That's still against the spirit of the spell. Its supposed to be a passive spell, triggered in response to somebody else opening/crossing/etc the warded object/area.
Edit: Removing post after reading other responses to previous questions.