Ya know, do we have any clue what each other can do? To all outside appearances Ray and Tityanna are just everyday people (not all gussied up like clerics or paladins). Does Harsk even know that people are about to throw out crazy quasi-dimensional beasts and plant magic? I ask mostly because it wouldd affect how he thinks about combat and these individuals. (I'll be honest, he would probably do a little condescending "let the big boys fight" type thing) But we also have been on the road for a month so...thoughts?
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Ray has made no mention of his summoning capabilities, and doesn't even know that he is a Summomer(with a capital S, not just another word for conjurer). He might be convinced/tricked into talking about his past, but why he left is something he won't mention. Something that is noticeable about him though is that he doesn't like people touching his left arm. He fears it might set off whatever summons creatures. He also openly wear his holy symbol of Desna and Erastil.
Good point. And Tityanna doesn't have nature magics just yet. But she can be helpful in combat.
I need to close my eyes a bit, but I will be addressing things shortly.
Aaaah. Noble bright. Hahaha!
Enjoy it fellows. This is my shinning moment of lawful Goodness. :)
Would address the whole charter thing with Harsk, but he just stomped off. Hey there, buddy. it's hard to argue with you if you don't stand still and put up your dukes!
Although, she has said it on several occasions, they have no authority to settle by the charter. They're to explore. :P
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Aaaah. Noble bright. Hahaha!
Enjoy it fellows. This is my shinning moment of lawful Goodness. :)
Would address the whole charter thing with Harsk, but he just stomped off. Hey there, buddy. it's hard to argue with you if you don't stand still and put up your dukes!
Although, she has said it on several occasions, they have no authority to settle by the charter. They're to explore. :P
Out with my baby boy will respond later on.
Now this is one of those circumstances where I dislike PbP because I don't know if I should exposit the sophisticated nuances of Harsk's thinking or if there is actually a player miscommunication here.
For now, I will say; Lawful Good meet Lawful Good.
Harks knows there is no settling to be done by them. He is under the impression that their work will lead to some kind of occupation. Nations don't waste time surveying unless they have an interest in doing something with what they find. That's his ipso facto interpretation of their mission. For now he thinks his job is explore and deal with any "problems" that arise.
Anyway, he'll be back he just got all in a huff and left all dwarf like. When he gets back they can hash things out then (or not, it is not as though they have to agree). Just as long as I am clear there is no player on player on tension it is all good.
Nah, I as a player understand where you're coming from. But if you're all meant to work together to explore, what Tityanna doesn't understand is that as soon as we come to some sort of disagreement, rather than sit at the table and talk it over like rational adults, two people get angry and just leave.
That's the sort of stuff she is used to in the Brevic court, which is not what she wishes to reproduce here. She has her opinion, you all have yours. So far yours appear to be "let's open communication by swinging our swords at em, and let the little missy sort em out later" while Tityanna is of the opinion "let's try to talk to them, but I don't want them escaping either, so if you cut them off, that'd be great." No need to menace em other than that.
Diplomacy at the end of a blade is not a standard we want to set, and my gut tells me that Oleg, despite wanting vengeance against these guys, doesn't want that to be the precedent we set, either.
Nah, I as a player understand where you're coming from. But if you're all meant to work together to explore, what Tityanna doesn't understand is that as soon as we come to some sort of disagreement, rather than sit at the table and talk it over like rational adults, two people get angry and just leave.
That's the sort of stuff she is used to in the Brevic court, which is not what she wishes to reproduce here. She has her opinion, you all have yours. So far yours appear to be "let's open communication by swinging our swords at em, and let the little missy sort em out later" while Tityanna is of the opinion "let's try to talk to them, but I don't want them escaping either, so if you cut them off, that'd be great." No need to menace em other than that.
Diplomacy at the end of a blade is not a standard we want to set, and my gut tells me that Oleg, despite wanting vengeance against these guys, doesn't want that to be the precedent we set, either.
Heh. Oh I'll get in and exposit all that in a moment. Ultimately Harsk is conflicted. Torag is pretty damn harsh (and the dwarves in his worship especially so) which is why Harsk was sent in and not someone else. He was trained for a more nuanced touch...but he still has years of training and tradition to grapple with. He left because he wants good relations with the group and would rather you don't continue to see him bellow like...well...any other dwarf.
Ultimately Harsk actually would rather confront them than attack them, he just wants to clarify that in his mind the group are agents of Brevoy and as such carry Brevic law with them into these lands. He sees the line about watching out for unlawful activity of all sorts (and banditry) as an authority to operate from.
It's not necessarily an alignment debate, it's a "what the heck do we see ourselves doing here?" discussion. Tityanna's down there ranging, to grow stronger. Or die. Whatever the AP intends :P
Haldaval has his own idea of what is lawful and what is good and he views the charter as license to implement it as needed.
He's also not the brainiest paladin around, and the amount of talk would make him want to withdraw more than any unwillingness to debate.
Already have. The quality makes me a bit nervous actually, since I haven't really had much work on getting into character for Ray. The Marked doesn't really count in my opinion.
Have no fear! I'm fairly certain you'll have all the time you need to develop Ray as the campaign progresses. So far, he seems like a quiet young man who would rather keep busy with his hands than engage in political discussion. I wouldn't worry too much about what his character was or is, but rather focus on how he develops his interactions now. I'll try to help, where I can.
Speaking of political discussion, I'm enjoying the way Haldaval, Harsk, and Tityanna clash with each other: three lawful good people with varying views on the application of their ethics and morality. Then, after tempers flare, the elf manages to cast a philosophical light on the situation. Good times!
I hope you're all enjoying the AP, so far. I'm definitely enjoying running it! :)
Every group needs the guy that gets stuff done.
He's the quiet dude who just... does stuff. Tityanna isn't that type of girl. She's not likely to be this talkative in the future unless the situation calls for it. But since we're at the beginning of the AP it's important to set the tone correctly.
And Tityanna hasn't specifically gotten angry with anyone. She has only been angry that instead of discussing like rational people, they got up and left. Children and bad politicians do that, not companions meant to rely upon each other.
I don't know if we've reached the stage of being companions meant to rely on each other. I wouldn't suggest calling him a child, though :).
Haldaval is built to be a leader. He's about to lay down his plan for the immediate fight, and he's not likely to want more discussion.
If you want to press the issue, Tityanna, by all means feel free to, but I'm not sure how it will be resolved :)
Haldaval is built to be a leader.
I expressed in the recruitment thread how much I loathe building towards that position. It's not a position you build to, it's something the party decides among themselves, through RP. In my RL kingmaker party, our party fighter and general with CHA 12 was our actual leader, at table and in the game. King was only a title conferred on the cha 20+ cavalier and only assumed when he decided to make a point of lording over everyone to express his will.
Just because he's built that way doesn't mean he will end up in that role. I was just explaining why he is acting the way he is now.
Yeah Harsk probably won't be too warm to being told what to do though he is of military bearing he will consider any plan. If Haldaval plans to leverage his station within his church/order as authority within the group...that might be...tense. Last time he checked the charter spoke little on formal arrangements of power. Harsk was not "assigned" to anyone for this task...
Edit: Ninja'd by Haldaval. Ah I see. You are saying he was sort of trained or "born to lead" so he, as a function of character, might resist being an equal where he feels he might have authority?
I expressed in the recruitment thread how much I loathe building towards that position. It's not a position you build to, it's something the party decides among themselves, through RP. In my RL kingmaker party, our party fighter and general with CHA 12 was our actual leader, at table and in the game. King was only a title conferred on the cha 20+ cavalier and only assumed when he decided to make a point of lording over everyone to express his will.
Haldaval is built to be a leader.
To be fair, I don't think that's what halplm (Haldaval's player) is intending, as far as your RL Kingmaker example goes; it doesn't seem (to me, at least) that Haldaval is lording anything over anybody. If you don't like building a character toward a certain "role" (whether we're talking meta-game or otherwise), that's cool. But, at the same time, I don't think there's anything wrong with making a character that's a leader by nature, either.
To be sure, what actual roles the PCs will have depends largely on the PCs' roleplaying and interaction; with that, I definitely agree. However, it seems that you may be equating players' actions in other Kingmaker games you've participated in with players' actions in this one (see your above example), and I'm not sure where you're coming from in regards to that.
I'm not trying to single anybody out; I'm trying to see if there's any bad blood brewing here, based on your past negative experiences.
Does that make sense?
Nah, just didn't like the "i built towards a leader" line. That's the only issue I had.
I definitely did not give Tityanna loads of charisma to be a leader type. She's happier not being one. But she isn't going to sit back and let others talk about killing people without making sure her values and opinions are completely understood.
If I built towards anything, it was the councilor "role." Is just where, for the time being, I see her ending up. Maybe through play that will be different. Who knows? Lots of possibilities.
This idea of allowing for redemption in all cases is potentially problematic :). Haldaval specifically rejected that aspect of Sarenrae's teaching.
Nah, just didn't like the "i built towards a leader" line. That's the only issue I had.
I definitely did not give Tityanna loads of charisma to be a leader type. She's happier not being one. But she isn't going to sit back and let others talk about killing people without making sure her values and opinions are completely understood.
If I built towards anything, it was the councilor "role." Is just where, for the time being, I see her ending up. Maybe through play that will be different. Who knows? Lots of possibilities.
Heh, a leader quick to judge can always use a councilor to reign him in ;)
I've found it interesting, because Tityanna is confident in her opinion and believes it should be given significant weight because of her noble upbringing. Haldaval is the same, but it comes more from his "blood" which is also noble, although he rejects that idea mentally.
That's an argument that has happened throughout history, blood vs upbringing :). I think and hope the interactions between Haldaval and Tityanna can be an extremely fun aspect of this game. Give him time to get to the point where he's more comfortable talking, and it should be fun :).
I just realized that I think I have been a little apprehensive about treading on Hu5stru's toes or having Player conflict because I totally read through her last Kingmaker experience on these boards and it was grade A craptastic.
As long as we are warm fuzzy hugs here in the OOC I am all for the character conflict and dialogue, its the stuff I think gets far more elaborate on PbP and why I came here to play.
and
Holy crow, you could stomach that garbage? I mean, is it just me or is not that GM basically masturbating himself with misery porn disguised as KM? That thread caused me to drink on several occasions.
Luckily I have the "Hugs Fuel DR" racial trait so empowered with those hugs I am immune to such trickery!
And yeah, that game was...what seemed odd to me was not the DM thing, that happens all the time and people have weird hangups that project and they don't notice, what surprised me was that the other players seemed game as it were or at least non-vocal in concerns.
I apologize ahead of time if any of my IC statements upset anyone. I am having fun with Haldaval, but it's a little strange because IRL I would never ever come down against possible redemption. He's gonna stick to it, but he's willing to let others handle punishment if it reduces conflict.
None of my IC comments reflect my own opinions necessarily :)
Oh they were very game. There were 50 more posts after I left that night. Business as usual.
I wish them all the best with their disgusting schlock.
"Ray is unassuming..."
Hehe, my plan is working! ;)
:P
Yeah expect Dwarven bellows of "By Torag's BEARD!" and some such once Lobo Gris comes round.
Rhys:
Sorry if I missed it, how tall is the stockade?
I'm wandering if Mala will be able to use his fire bolts and point-blank shot.
Rhys:
Sorry if I missed it, how tall is the stockade?I'm wandering if Mala will be able to use his fire bolts and point-blank shot.
Stockade?
If you mean any one of the buildings inside the fort, they're roughly 10 feet up. The towers are 20 feet tall, and the walls are 10 feet tall. Does that help?
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I guess I'll go with Rostlander. Pioneer may fit, but Ray couldn't care less about politics after all. Maybe change a bit of the fluff near the end about "the call for heroes" to something that has him looking for a way to go back to his little farming village though, if possible.
After making arrangements with the party, but before bed, Tityanna will seek out Svetlana. "Good Wife, I feel I must apologize for deceiving you and your husband," she begins. "Allow me to introduce myself properly. I am Tityanna Medvyed, formerly of the Gronzi forest in Brevoy... formerly of the court at New Steven."
Tityanna will offer Svetlana a formal, courtly bow.
She takes a deep breath, exhaling slowly before her teeth before she continues. "Well met, we are, my Lady Medvyed of New Stetven. I'm only Svetlana Leveton, once Svetlana Ivanevna, formerly of Restov.'
"You mistake me Good Wife. When I said formerly of New Steven, I meant as such. I can no longer claim that title, or any others, nor do I wish to. I entered these lands a free woman, like yourself," Tityanna corrects, "My wish is to be known and recognized for my own deeds, not for my father's name.
"I told you because I could not fail to notice the hostility with your husband. I am not here to dictate law, or even to sew them where they are unwanted. I... do not desire that your marriage should be further strained on my or our behalf."
Tityanna pauses and draws her lower lip between her teeth. "May the good Lord Erastil bless you and yours, Good Wife."
She hugs you quickly, and steps back, grinning. "You're like a sister to me, you are! I've never had any--I'm the youngest of five, all boys, but for me. You're a sister of the heart, if not by blood, do you ken?"
Svetlana suddenly glances up at the diminishing light. "Listen to me run my mouth! I'd best look lively, if I want everything ready by morning. I'll bid you goodnight, Tityanna, and may your dreams be bright ones."
She heads toward the main house.
Harsk - beside the stables so they can't climb up that ladder, either? or just inside the gate to narrow their entrance/escape route. I think if we block off a gate they'll know something is up... hmmm
Harsk - beside the stables so they can't climb up that ladder, either? or just inside the gate to narrow their entrance/escape route. I think if we block off a gate they'll know something is up... hmmm
My instincts say anywhere you put a cart that isn't as out of the way as possible damn well better be placed for use otherwise it will look weird.
As it is if the cart is normally in the yard and is moved that might also raise suspicions but I think that is a chance worth taking to not get trampled. I'm not sure there is much else we could do with it at this point...
beside the storehouse, then? that's believable, to shuffle goods halfway across the yard wouldn't be all that conducive to commerce.
Tityanna will take either first or last watch, whenever there is light to be able to see by.
A woman? Taking WATCH? During the light she says? Needs to SEE she says?
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Yeah that seems reasonable.
Yes, next she'll be asking for a hooded lantern to walk around with so she can watch where she's stepping at night, some armor to protect herself from getting hit by bruisers, and a tent to keep her from the elements while they're out in the wilds. :P