Potion Glutton and Extracts

Someone on another thread suggested using Potion Glutton with alchemist extracts. It seems to me that this is very much like the Accelerated Drinker trait being called out in the FAQ not to work with extracts. I would assume that likewise, this would not work (for balance's sake if nothing else), but the wording is different as it calls out elixirs (rather than just potions) and 'other potables'. So...

QUESTION-

Alchemist: Does the Potion Glutton feat allow you to consume extracts as a swift action?

RAW? Yes.

Will any DM actually allow this? Very unlikely. The Potion Glutton feat almost certainly was meant to reduce drinking to a move action rather than a swift action (since it says drinking is normally a move action when in fact it's a standard action), and was probably meant to exclude extracts as well (as the Accelerated Drinker FAQ you referenced). But until it gets an official errata feel free to abuse this if you can find a willing DM.

Actually, I'd rather it was cleared up not to work then to abuse it myself. More than that, I'd rather that the developers learned from the fact that Accelerated Drinker already had to be FAQ'd for a similar reason, and have written this feat with that in mind. I'd prefer for writing and editing to improve with the years.

Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be what happened here... unless the author truly meant to give Alchemists free quickens on their extracts. I suppose if that turned out to be as intended, I'd consider being tempted by the darkside... could be fun to worship an evil deity for once.

RAW? No.

It's up to the GM to decide what all "potables" is applicable to.

From where that feat come? It is not in the PRD or D20PSRD.

Inner Sea Gods, Urgathoa feat

Potion Glutton

You gulp down potions with unsettling speed.
Prerequisite: Worshiper of Urgathoa.
Benefit: You can drink potions, elixirs, or other potables as a swift action without provoking attacks of opportunity.
Normal: Drinking potions is a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity.

I think it only for magical potions and elixirs. At most some alchemical item.

RAW? No.

It's up to the GM to decide what all "potables" is applicable to.

The GM can change any rule he wants, but he can't redefine the English language. There is no special definition in Pathfinder defining "potable", so it means "a liquid that is suitable for drinking" (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/potable).

This includes extracts RAW, unless the GM makes a house rule to exclude it (which the GM probably should, if he doesn't just ban the feat entirely).

Bumping this as I still haven't seen a good answer one way or the other.

RAW, yes. An extract (or a mutagen) is an "other potable". It's potable, and not a potion or elixir. Although it is very much like a potion;

Extracts are the most varied of the three. In many ways, they behave like spells in potion form,

So it's clearly within the scope of the feat.

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However, I sense a misunderstanding at work in this thread. Potion Glutton won't let you draw extracts and mutagens any faster than normal. Just drink them if you're already holding them.

So first you have to undertake some sort of action to draw your extract. What action?

There's no action listed separately for drawing an extract, because when writing the alchemist, the writers didn't anticipate you doing that. Alchemists normally draw AND drink extracts as a Standard action, unlike potions which have to be drawn as a Move and then drunk as a Standard action.

However, since extracts are much like potions, and actually drawing just about any easily-accessible small object is a Move action, it stands to reason that drawing an extract without drinking is also a Move action.

So you could draw an extract as a Move and drink it as a Swift using Potion Glutton, and then draw another extract and drink it as a Standard using your normal alchemist abilities. That's pretty good, yeah.

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So yeah, the feat is actually much better than the trait. That's not really surprising, since feats are supposed to be better than traits.

Also, it's got a serious drawback in the requirement to worship Urgathoa.

If it helps, I successfully used this with my alchemist in PFS. Once I got the local VC to agree that it worked that way I was able to name-drop him to all the GM's I played with in that area and dodged a lot of potential table variation. Managed to play the character from 1-9 without a single table not letting me use it on extracts.

I believe that feat is completely made wrong and I wouldn't recommend anyone to take it. It references that drinking a potion is move action which is incorrect. Drinking potion is a standard action as listed on Table: Actions in Combat in Combat section of the game.

Drinking Extracts as a swift action is probably not meant to be available. It's same as enabling a wizard to cast spells as a swift action from level one. Game balance is at stake.

I have a feeling that creator of the feat didn't know that drinking potion is a standard action, so he attempted to reducing time needed to drink a potion from move action to swift action, whereas it should have been from standard action to move action.

That's few thoughts,

Adam

I believe that feat is completely made wrong and I wouldn't recommend anyone to take it. It references that drinking a potion is move action which is incorrect. Drinking potion is a standard action as listed on Table: Actions in Combat in Combat section of the game.

That's only the "Normal: ..." reminder text. That's wrong, but I don't think it invalidates the "Benefit: ... " text.

Drinking Extracts as a swift action is probably not meant to be available. It's same as enabling a wizard to cast spells as a swift action from level one. Game balance is at stake.

It's not the same as enabling swift spells. Because you still have to grab the extract. It's more like making spellcasting Swift but requiring a Move action to grab spell components every time.

But sure, it's still extremely powerful.

I have a feeling that creator of the feat didn't know that drinking potion is a standard action, so he attempted to reducing time needed to drink a potion from move action to swift action, whereas it should have been from standard action to move action.

That's few thoughts,

Adam

That's certainly possible. I wouldn't be totally surprised if the wording changed a little in the next printing. But the feat is entirely useable as written right now.

Hmm even it is doesn't work on extracts it lets me use an extract of alchemical allocation + potion in one turn. That's nice.

use extract: Standard action
draw potion: move action
Drink potion: now swift action

Normally drinking cure serious wounds potions without using them up via alchemical allocation needs two turns, which is bad in combat.

Malag wrote:

Drinking Extracts as a swift action is probably not meant to be available. It's same as enabling a wizard to cast spells as a swift action from level one. Game balance is at stake.

It's not the same as enabling swift spells. Because you still have to grab the extract. It's more like making spellcasting Swift but requiring a Move action to grab spell components every time.

But sure, it's still extremely powerful.

If I understood right, extracts act similar like potions, but act of pulling the extract out and drinking it is standard action all in one just like bombs and mutagen.

"What kind of action is it to use an extract, mutagen, or throw a bomb?

It is a standard action to use an extract, mutagen, or throw a bomb. This action includes retrieving the necessary materials from the alchemist's supplies, in the same manner as retrieving a material component is included in the act of spellcasting." - FAQ

Edit: I do agree that feat is useable, but it's very badly worded at the moment. I would discourage any players of mine from taking it.

Hmm even it is doesn't work on extracts it lets me use an extract of alchemical allocation + potion in one turn. That's nice.

use extract: Standard action
draw potion: move action
Drink potion: now swift action

Normally drinking cure serious wounds potions without using them up via alchemical allocation needs two turns, which is bad in combat.

This doesn't work, because of the specific wording of alchemical allocation

ALCHEMICAL ALLOCATION
School transmutation; Level alchemist 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components S
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 round
This extract causes a pale aura to emanate from your mouth. If you consume a potion or elixir on the round following the consumption of this extract, you can spit it back into its container as a free action. You gain all the benefits of the potion or elixir, but it is not consumed. You can only gain the benefits of one potion or elixir in this way per use of this extract.

Any official answer about this on FAQ actually?

It doesn't really need a FAQ [and besides that I suspect it's from a non-FAQ source, though I could be mistaken.]

You can drink potions, elixirs, or other potables as a swift action without provoking attacks of opportunity.

It really doesn't get more simple than that.

THAT BEING SAID, as far as the extracts go the Alchemist only gets a special 'draw and drink is a combined action' as a Standard Action. If he wants to use this feat with Extracts he's going to need to spend a move action to grab the extract like everybody has to for potions and such.

It doesn't really need a FAQ [and besides that I suspect it's from a non-FAQ source, though I could be mistaken.]

Benefit: wrote:

You can drink potions, elixirs, or other potables as a swift action without provoking attacks of opportunity.

It really doesn't get more simple than that.

THAT BEING SAID, as far as the extracts go the Alchemist only gets a special 'draw and drink is a combined action' as a Standard Action. If he wants to use this feat with Extracts he's going to need to spend a move action to grab the extract like everybody has to for potions and such.

That's why my PFS alchemist has two extra arms and a tentacle. To hold extracts/mutagen/potions.

This doesn't work, because of the specific wording of alchemical allocation

ALCHEMICAL ALLOCATION
School transmutation; Level alchemist 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components S
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 round
This extract causes a pale aura to emanate from your mouth. If you consume a potion or elixir on the round following the consumption of this extract, you can spit it back into its container as a free action. You gain all the benefits of the potion or elixir, but it is not consumed. You can only gain the benefits of one potion or elixir in this way per use of this extract.

I've been aware of that but I think that's excessive interpretation of RAW (just like I think this feat is excessive interpretation of RAW). I think it's both pretty realistic and more-or-less the intention that it works at any point after drinking the extract within 1 round.

I think one's interpretation that either drinking extracts or drinking and drawing extracts as a swift action is quite strongly against RAI. Extracts are in a sense imaginary items (even in infused form as strange as that is) since they are the fluff for how an alchemist operates. It wouldn't be consistent or make sense if one could say that the infusions can be drawn and drunk in 1 action, potions require 2, but extracts somehow become 2 actions as well if drinking becomes faster. With swift-to-drink, alchemists could still keep the extracts in their hands, which would be a problem (aside from move+swift being potentially problematic as well)

Necro alert.

It may be a strong indicator that the feat will change in errata when the book is reprinted.

PFS Potion Glutton clarification:

Change the text of the potion glutton feat to the following, "Benefit: You can drink potions, elixirs, or other potables (but not extracts) as a move action without provoking an attack of opportunity. Normal: Drinking potions is a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity."