GMF's Shattered Star (Inactive)

Game Master Fanguar

Well, she'll have to be CG if you feel there's an issue here, though I'd rather not change it as she isn't a black and white character. Stealing isn't a good act, but the issue is I had her as NG because she can talk to people, become friendly with and help others and loves to get on with people outside of her work, admiring beauty and art.

She's a good person, but this is what she does and although poisoning is deemed by some as bad, she knows it's necessary to her survival in this business and she doesn't like to kill and as such, hasn't yet.

She's very calculative so doesn't fit the chaotic role, but by the CG description, she does. This is how I play NG though. I see the PRD on alignments as examples/guidelines, but I've played NG tyrants who perform necessary evils to reach a much greater good.

This character is nothing like Hitler lol. She doesn't kill, enslave, starve, gas anyone.....or murder races.

She hasn't killed a single soul and doesn't have any intentions to....unless she has to act in self defense of course.

I used an extreme example, with Hilter and Ramesses II,

Good would be good intents with good actions,

and calculative does not mean Lawful,

Look at Riddick from Pitch Black, he's the most calculative of the surivivors at the start and he's Chaotic Evil.

Yea, I didn't mention Lawful. I tend to not play those characters.

As for good, that's the shallow and clichéd type of good. Ethyria may be good, but she doesn't always act out in a way that would be seen as good. She has her own codes of morality and although mostly good, poisoning people with non-lethal poisons to steal from them, doesn't hurt her conscience.

Riddick from Pitch Black...from what I recall actually helped people and wasn't evil. He was just trying to break free of imprisonment and fight the alien threats that tried to kill him.

I think the GM should decide on if poison is an evil act, or at best a Neutral one.

And I do recall from the BoED Ravages and Afflictions which are good versions of Poison and Disease repectively

I Read the BoED to get a good idea of what good can and should do, and what good can not and should not do.

The BoVD paints a good picture of what is evil.

as for Riddick helping them out, that was for his survival and the one he had his eyes on. Watch Closely, that and Open the Complete Scoundrel, page 8 on Chaotic Evil

Well it's all a matter of perspective really. A rogue poisoner doesn't see it as an evil act by description, but some characters may see it as evil while others don't. Technically speaking, as soon as someone kills another, they're a.murderer, thus evil by definition.

Again, things aren't black and white.

You can do evil things but still be good. It just depends how evil those things are and having a desire to not harm anyone, only incapacitating foe long enough to get in and out harmlessly is only a good thing in my opinion.

Ideally she'd familiarise herself with the area and character routines, breaking in when the place is vacant, but she has to take precautions.

In real life, murdering another even in self defense is seen as bad, as is stealing, breaking and entering and many other things, but in Pathfinder every character.kills and loots all dead bodies/area's which is disrespectful but part of the game. Even if a Paladin killed.an evil creature, if it had better equipment, the Paladin would probably take it.

I'd say aside from thievery and non-lethal poisons, this character is probably not anywhere near as violent as most PC's and she really admires beauty and likes talking to people/making friends. She just tends not to.get too close to.others as she might be instructed to.steal from them and if she.likes them, her conscience would.prevent her from doing her job.

Most creatures including Aasimar's can also be of any alignment and I think her details.offer a good amount of rp potential. Nualia from RotRL's is technically a fallen/corrupt.Aasimar. Ethyria however, is just more human than celestial in what you'd expect from her.

True Good and Evil are not purely Black and White,
but at the same time are purely Black And White.

And the Book of Exalted Deeds gives some solid outlines of what Good can and should do and also solidly what Good can not and should not do.

....

Using poison that deals ability damage is an evil act because it causes undue suffering in the process of incapacitating or killing an opponent. Of the poisons described in the Dungeon Master’s Guide, only one is acceptable for good characters to use: oil of taggit, which deals no damage but causes unconsciousness.
.....

Well, an evil act that may be, but it doesn't make her evil. :p

All I want is to put people unconscious but the DC is no doubt low to save against, making it inefficient.

Still, killing people is more of an evil act than poisoning them for a bit of ability damage. The poison effects of non-lethal poisons are mostly temporary, allowing for any NPC to recover with time. It's also a last measure tactic fr if things go wrong.

She has a sap to deal non-lethal sneak attack damage as well.

I think the GM should finalize what is good, what is evil and where poison goes on the list as I don't want to over step onto any GM boundaries and have a standard set for the game so that everyone is on the same page as to what each alignment means and what it can do and can not do.
As it's the GM's world, GM's alignment definitions, not the players.

It does, but like I said, it's a last resort and for an Aasimar she's more human (personality wise). My argument is that ability damage makes enemies suffer (through poison use or ability damage via crits), but so do constant attacks from lethal melee weapons (which the party will inflict on all enemies they face), and as she doesn't wish to kill or harm others, infiltrating buildings as stealthily and cautiously as possible (to remain undetected), she's a very good person.

She's no more evil than any other party member of a good alignment. She specialises in one area and that's where she excels.

She's just no saint. That's all. She's as good as she can be, which is very far from evil as I've expressed.

She's built for stealth and acrobatics, and I'm looking at Enforcer, Sap Adept and Sap Master as three of my feats, for when I actually need to engage in combat.

We must have different concepts if we disagree on this though, because she is by no means evil and is quite possibly the most good character I've ever planned on playing.

All she cares about is acquiring treasure and rare relics to sell on to museums or now, the Pathfinder's. This is how she makes her living and she doesn't know what adventures may await her in this AP.

Besides, if I ran my games where everyone's alignment was effected in every action they took, every character would be evil...because killing anything under any circumstance is an evil act. It doesn't matter if your enemies are evil. If they're living and you kill them, you've just committed an evil act.

Just saying.

Boys and girls could you maybe continue your off topic discussion somewhere else or use spoilers?

so who wants to team up with Snaz? He likes big strong friends by the way!

Yea, which is why I'm a rogue. For skills, sneak attack and talents. Fits my theme perfectly with the burglar archetype. I just want this character to have no spell abilities at all.

She'll have no spell casting knowledge and has to rely on her own physical abilities.

I know there are easy ways to solve this (slumber and sleep spells etc), but I've purposely made her as a physical type and not a spell caster. Someone who's trained herself to be a great thief/tomb raider.

If I wanted to optimise my Acrobatics, I'd slap Skill Focus in that, but she has knowledge of dungeons and traps, and as such had to have skill focus dungeoneering to represent this.

I'm going with theme and roleplay over optimisation, but will optimise as much as I can within that.

For what its worth, im with Apollo on the alignment thing. The characters description sounds sorta like the main character from the first DnD movie (the one that was sorta good)

Anyone who watched that movie would likely put him as Neutral Good. I know I do.

So let's not hijack the recruitment thread...

Anywho, I think we're quibbling over the difference between dishonourable and evil. Using poison is considered dishonourable (standard LG paladins can't use it), but is not inherently evil. Dead is dead, be it by poison or fireball. Also, in general, poison isn't really that great in pathfinder.

@Apollo: While I appreciate your attempt to mitigate the 15pt buy as much as possible, I'm not going to allow Variant Aasimar Abilities. Aasimar are already on the upper end of the of power spectrum.

@Gregory Paltaris: any word on your bard?

Its ready, gonna go poke him to post here.

Hello, hello.

Here is Oberst, the Half-elf Bard.

Party:

Gregory Paltaris-1/2 Elf Ranger
Oberst 1/2 elf Bard
Denlin Longarm Human Barbarian
Esther Pennycoat Human Cleric (made a few minor change to domain)

ps: all for of us play in the same RoTRL on these board (so yes we are active etc go check it out if you want. The DM is Oberst)

--------

Here is

Ester (revised)

Cleric 1
Init +1; Senses Perception +2
==DEFENSE==
AC 11, touch 11, flat-footed 10 (+1 dex)
hp 9 (1d8)
SR 0
Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +5
==OFFENSE==
Spd 30 ft/x4
==STATISTICS==
Str 8, Dex 12, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 18
BAB +0, CMB -1, CMD +10
Feats Armor Proficiency (LIGHT / MEDIUM) (PFCR 118), Improved Channel (PFCR 126), Selective Channeling (PFCR 132-133), Shield Proficiency (PFCR 133)
Skills Spellcraft +4, Use Magic Device +9, Knowledge Religion +4
SQ Cleric Channel Energy [7 / 1d6] (PFCR 40)
SU Domain Powers Saurian(PFCR 40-41), Defense: Deflection Aura (PFAPG 89)
MC Cleric Bonus Languages (PFCR 41), Cleric Spontaneous Casting (PFCR 41), Forbidden Spell Alignment (PFCR 41, 49)
Traits Dangerously Curious (Magic) (PFAPG 329), Student of Faith
Languages Common

So Noya as your big and strong do you want to be friends with Snaz?

Who else is still looking for a party?

She'll be friends with Snaz, as he is the best behaved Goblin she knows, that and she's somewhat of an outcast at times.
And your Honourable in combat.

Honorable in combat?

Only victory brings honor, defeat brings death. Simple lessons but you only learn it once...

We'll still need two more (and a caster would be good)
I'm both a melee and a limited healer (in a few levels).

Well, I was going to have that replace not only the spell-like ability like it should, but also the Celestial resistances as I felt that was a fair swap, but I just wish you'd have said that from the start, because I wouldn't have ended up having a long chat about alignments for a campaign I unfortunately won't be joining.

Shame because I was looking forward to it, but all campaign's are hard enough on 20pt buy. Drop it to 15 and the whole party will die in no time at all. I like to get attached to my characters and if they're going to die within the 1st book, there's no point for me. Some people are happy to re-roll characters but it just seems like a cheap way to continue the story to me, so when I die that's it. Other people can step in, in my place.

I can see why you want to start it on 15, so that when people start, they're all just weak common folk, but they can never get as powerful as they probably should be towards the end.

Besides, a Rogue with str 14, dex 16, con 10, int 10, wis 12, cha 15 is a pretty poor excuse for a Rogue. +1 str is pointless so I can't drop it from what it is now, and I don't want her to be stupid so can't drop int, and con is a big no-no to drop. I was happy when I had her on 20 dex, then dropped her to 18 due to realising it wasn't the point buy I made the character to, and now that I'd have to drop it to 16, it just makes the character a pathetic burglar/treasure hunter. She'd have 8hp, a very low AC of 16 and yea, would be completely useless.

A lower point buy doesnt get characters killed, actions and choices (and sometimes bad rolls) do.

Given that 10-11 is average commoner stats, a 16 dex is still exceptional. How that makes her "pathetic" at her dex related skills compared to an 18 is beyond me.

I see plenty of rogues rolling around with 10 str and doing just fine damage, why 1 or 2 points of str damage would make such a huge difference is beyond me.

If you hadnt chosen Rogue of all classes id be tempted to call flat out powergamey.

An example of how to assign stats to a Rogue under 15 point buy... sure I'd prefer 5 more points but this is totally workable...

Rolled up a dwarven cleric, if someone interested in an all dwarf group wants to go melee or caster. I have a base background in mind but I figure if we make an all dwarf group it would make sense to do some background merging/work together.

As it stands here is the all dwarf group from people who are still actively posting:
Grumil - Cleric (or Monk)
Artor - Ranger
Artorius - ?

People with interest in dwarves but no recent posts:
Morg - Sorcerer
bi0philia - Paladin

*Updated* To remove Anthony as per the below post :)

Well if you can't find enough Dwarves for your Dwarf group want to join a Goblin Rogue and a Tiefling Paladin? We'd even take on a Ranger if he doesn't have us as favored enemeies :)

Anthony is me. I didnt get much interest feedback on it and when I was asked to join my current grp I went in a different direction.

A lower point buy doesnt get characters killed, actions and choices (and sometimes bad rolls) do.

Given that 10-11 is average commoner stats, a 16 dex is still exceptional. How that makes her "pathetic" at her dex related skills compared to an 18 is beyond me.

I see plenty of rogues rolling around with 10 str and doing just fine damage, why 1 or 2 points of str damage would make such a huge difference is beyond me.
...

I have to agreed with Gregory Paltaris in that a player's choice of actions will bump them off, like in real life.

Tell that to everyone I've played with in tabletop games. The AP's are mostly made for 20pt buy characters.

I've learned the hard way to optimise to the best of my ability and haven't once been deemed "overpowered". I just do what I can to ensure a lengthy survival rate, and that really isn't a bad thing. The game's meant to be fun, and if you can't survive, you won't experience the story in full and won't be able to get in character/immerse yourself easily.

As it stands, I've just about managed to survive in most occasions, even when we've been working together as a party well. Ethyria just needs a sky high Dex to be good as a solo Scout, with her purpose to venture off alone (undetected) to scout areas and then report back to the group of her findings.

Level 1 with a 16 Dex, let's see what her stealth can be:

3 (mod), 3 class, 1 rank = 7 with skill focus not being an option as that has to be on Knowledge dungeoneering....which is what would have made her useful to a party from a GM perspective. She'll be noticed a lot, making her an ineffective scout, forcing her to stick together with a party at all times, which in turn, removes the possibility of ever being able to scout ahead unnoticed, making her just your average fighter once more, when the concept is she's an expert at stealth, hiding and watching before spotting an opportunity to steal or strike un-noticed.

The dice determines everything. It's never as simple as making the right choice, but then maybe I'm in a thread with people who only usually ever play on 15pt buy.

Artor is fine with merging the dwarf group with the goblin / tiefling group if Grumil is.

All APs and modules are build on the Four player party of 15 point buy.
Look at the Pre-made stats in the earlier APs and modules, they all had a 15 point buy and those were the test PCs during development of the AP or module.

Pretty sure they're all made for 20pt buy, which is dubbed standard, as opposed to average (15) and epic (25).

If stealth is what shes really really good at, why is the Skill Focus in Dungeoneering? More over, while Dungeoneering can certainly be useful, failing a knowledge roll has never in all my games been fatal. At most it meant not knowing a monster weaknesses.

And as you say, dice determine everything. What constitutes "being noticed alot"? Even a 10 Stealth vs a 5 Perception is gonna get spotted fairly often, even if it isnt the majority of the time.

As for what points Im used to playing at, its usually 20+

But this is drifting into hijack territory again so ill leave it at that.

EDIT: 15 is dubbed Standard, 20 is High Fantasy.

....

But this is drifting into hijack territory again so ill leave it at that.

EDIT: 15 is dubbed Standard, 20 is High Fantasy.

Agreed

Thalrik leave it alone...

Like I said, to make her relevant or a good choice for this campaign. Pathfinder's only want knowledgeable characters, so it fits thematically, regardless of how useful it is or isn't for survival.

I don't really see why people need to get so aggressive over saying I won't be playing if that's the case, and power gaming is not a bad thing from what I've experienced.

I run a 20pt buy RotRL's campaign and the characters are all pretty strong, but they barely survive a good portion of the time. You need to do all you can to survive in these adventures.

Anyway, whatever. New build:

She doesn't have Celestial Resistance or her Spell-Like ability as I don't want her to have access to magic in any way, shape or form, and I find it a bit odd for every Aasimar to be able to use Magic.

If I'm allowed something in place of those (like Skill Focus), good. If not, that's fine.

Artor is fine with merging the dwarf group with the goblin / tiefling group if Grumil is.

I don't think the Outcast group would have a problem combining with the Dwarf group or picking up those that need a half-formed group.

Paizo adventure paths are designed for 4 PC's with a 15pt buy with core races, opening it up to non-standard races already makes the PCs more powerful than normal. Also when people do higher points buys they usually don't allow dump stats, which I am allowing. I don't care if a dwarf has 5 charisma (though he better hope he never fails a save against a charm spell). With a 15pt buy you can make a fantastic scout, you just can't make a fantastic scout that's great in combat and has tons of hp and skill points and can be the party face. You have to specialize.

Also anyone who doesn't like my character creation rules is more than welcome to apply elsewhere.

Anyways, the characters coming together look good.

Well, you have my watered down (no spell like ability or celestial resistance) character above. Would be nice to grab something for those sacrifices as all I want an Aasimar Half-Elf for are sheerly the cosmetic looks, but it's my choice to remove those, so if you don't want to give me something in return, fair enough.

I applied without looking at the first post to begin with as I was eager to join, and don't have an issue with how you rule things (we all rule differently), but didn't expect to have an argument over it, and my point was that I was just a little surprised it was 15pt buy when people optimised for 20pt buys often get mauled, 99% of the time due to bad rolls and quickly overpowering enemies.

I'm surprised you did not take Scion of Humanity

as for the reason all Aasimar are to be able to use Magic via a spell-like ability, is because their outsider ancestor could use magical abilities freely and they only inherit a fragment of it.
And their resistnace to the elements is not magical it's extraordinary.

That's fine, and yea she's Half-Elf born so it didn't really fit thematically. Half-Elves look fairly human, as do Aasimar's so I guess she may pass for it already. The pointed ears are the only things which give her away, and if her hair covers that up, well, I guess she'd look incredibly human.

The reason I mentioned it, is because you don't want magical defenses and this racial trait does just that.

As a outsider(native) your currently immune to X_Person spells,
Scion of Humanity will remove it, and you'll pass for human, or in your case a half-elf.

heck if you don't want the magical aspect of your aasimar that looks like a half-elf why not just go Half-elf.

Would be interesting, but the Innocent Aasimar racial trait fits her perfectly, so I don't really want to swap Races.

Half-Elves are hated, but Aasimar generally aren't, so nobody would suspect her for stealing with innocent and beautiful looks, unless they saw her and caught her in the act.

But if she looks like a half-elf...

But if she looks like a half-elf...

Wouldn't she he hated because she looks like a half-elf.

-----------

And the Innocent trait only works on lies you tell that are either believable or unlikely.

Where as a half-elf could use the bonus Skill Focus feat on Bluff and boom, no questions asked +3 on bluff and when you get 10 ranks it becomes a +6.

That and you could take the social trait Adopted and with GM approval take Innocent.

And Half-elves are not as hated as you think in the Golarion setting.

She resembles both Angel and Half-Elf, but looks like something completely different. Something beautiful enough to come from the heavens, and so it wouldn't take much for someone to realise she's Aasimar.

As for Skill Focus, I know. It's one of the feats I'm choosing later, but she's only ever going to lie in a believable or unlikely way. It's making utter rubbish up that sounds plausible basically, but she was born from a Half-Elf, father was a Bralani/Azata Angel and as Angel's look more human than Half-Elves and one would think they'd have the dominating gene, she still would come across as an Angelic, almost human woman.

If I wanted her to be a Half-Elf and look like a Half-Elf, which I've said she doesn't countless times...I'd have just made her Half-Elf to begin with.

The original description was that Half-Elves are deemed beautiful, Angel's are also deemed beautiful, so she is quite possibly the most beautiful woman most people would see, and with her innocent looks, nobody would suspect her, making her the perfect burglar.

If her father was an Bralani/Azata then she would be a half-celestial, and definitely have magical abilities and defenses.
To avoid the magical abilities and defenses her parents would have to be normal people.

So you just created a background vs ability contradiction.

And I don't think she's the most beautiful among the submissions, as there are some who have a charisma of 15 or higher, and had attractive race parents.

Who's in need of a party member so far? Have we still only got two groups?

I think both Outcast (Noya and Snaz) and Dwarf (Grumil and Artor) groups have agreed to a merger.
Though we are waiting on Grumil's decision on the matter.

If not, I think Anthony won't mind joining Outcast.

Bibic checks the note again wondering what the job would be this time.
 

Bibic hopes to earn his Wayfinder on this mission. Unlike the last failure.

Spasi Gaten looks at the note in his hands and then looks around again.

Spasi checks the position of the sun and then again looks at the note.

I have no idea what these people look like. Nor what they can do. But I have my orders.

A drip of sweat runs down Spasi's face, but the human doesn't seem to notice, so intent is he on finding his new companions.

This is better than my time in the Valashi Jungle. That place sucked.