Hello all! Lets talk creation!!!
I figure that before we get too far, we should hammer out the outline and creation rules. Here is what I am thinking so far. Chime in if you have any other ideas!
~20 point buy
~2 traits, one must be campaign from the Players guide. May take an additional trait if you take a drawback, but I will expect you to fully utilize an incorporate your drawback.
~Background traits
~Paizo only material preferred, but select exceptions may be considered
~I would really prefer no occult classes, but I won't outright ban them either. If this comes up, we can discuss.
Considering the starting conditions and back story, lets start with 200 gp starting gold.
Anything else I am forgetting??
|
Any race restrictions or list of allowances?
My first thought is a shaman, with either waves or a Deep Shaman with lots of watery blasts. Was considering grippli or undine for it, with sort of a fish-out-of-water theme. Might go half-elf with Kindred-Raised alternate too - might make it a little more melee friendly.
Be sure to read the campaign guide. It has some comments about available races, I think.
What did we decide about feat taxes?
I really dig the occult classes. What do you not like about them?
Yay! A thread of our own!
I don't want to overly worry about the water (i.e. none of my character concepts are water-based), but I'm sure I'll have some ways to deal with it.
My first choice is a paranoid gnome illusionist I've been wanting to play in an AP.
A couple other ideas I like are either a construct-crafting dwarf wizard (with mostly crafting feats), and a self-experimenting human alchemist.
I didn't have any occult ideas to bring to the table, but I have to say I've really been enjoying a mesmerist I've been playing elsewhere. Though psionic stuff used to bother me in the past, now I just tend to think of all the psychic stuff as another form of magic.
Also, are we sticking with four or adding a fifth? There are some classes, like bard or skald, that seem a lot better with the five member group.
|
Hey everyone!
Hum it seems like nobody wants to play a melee class. I may want to play a ranger but I've also been interested in playing an investigator or bard / skald in a long-term AP.
I also think that playing a druid might be an interesting thing in this AP.
On another matter, the reason why I think the occult classes might be les interesting in regards for other classes is because they are a bit overpowered, even though I like them very much.
Also the GM said on the sheet that he was not going for the "no feat taxes" system.
I tend to play archers or melee characters. Partial casters have been really growing on me. I like to have characters with decent non-combat utility. I usually avoid full casters, but I did enjoy the Gnome Fey Sorcerer I played once.
PJP: Any race restrictions or list of allowances?
~There is a good article in the Players Guide about that, but here is the pertinent section. With this in mind, I will say that as long as you a)stick to non-evil races that will not cause division in the new colony, and b)have a good reason for an exceptional race to be there, I won't cause too much fuss.
Even though dwarves, gnomes, and half-orcs have little racial connection to lost Azlant, many of them still have an urge to explore untouched lands. It’s widely believed that halflings lived among the Azlanti, so a member of that race might feel inspired to investigate this ancient claim. Elves familiar with their race’s history prior to Earthfall might know that there was animosity between the elves and the Azlanti (which is why the Mordant Spire watches over ruined Azlant to this day, as they did in the past), and elves in this campaign might want to explore that millennia-old relationship.
Some races might make more sense later in the campaign rather than at the beginning. Since the expedition to Talmandor’s Bounty begins in Almas, it’s not as likely that exotic races would be a part of the initial expedition (of course, exceptions to this are always possible as PCs are exceptional among their kind). For example, a half-elf from the Mordant Spire could be a thematically appropriate race selection for this campaign, but it’s unlikely that such a character would be hanging out in Almas applying for the expedition. An option for exploring a more exotic race later in the campaign is to change characters, having your original character fade into the background of the colony while your new character (such as a merfolk or Mordant Spire elf ) enters the scene and joins up with the fledgling colonists or the rest of the party.
A minor exception to this would be gillmen. Nearly 50 years ago, a delegation of gillmen came to Almas to present to the nation of Andoran the keystone from the Arch of Aroden as a gift. While many of those gillmen who originally made this gesture would be old by now, your character could be the child or grandchild of one of these diplomats. (If you choose to play a gillman in this Adventure Path, make sure to look up the lore surrounding them; this race has some significant weaknesses that, given the themes of this campaign, might place them at a serious disadvantage compared to other races.)
Dwarves focused on fighting against aberrations can select the deep warrior (Advanced Race Guide) or the sense aberration (Pathfinder RPG Horror Adventures) alternate racial traits, and those looking to dive into the depths can select the saltbeard alternate racial trait (Advanced Race Guide).
Advanced Race Guide also has the spirit of the waters alternate racial trait for elves, the heart of the sea alternate racial trait for humans, and water child alternate racial trait for half-elves as options for characters in aquatic environments. In addition, undines have a number of helpful options in Advanced Race Guide, such as the amphibious, deepsight, and terrain chameleon alternate racial traits. Half-elves with aquatic elf heritage can use the shoreborn subrace found in Pathfinder Player Companion: Bastards of Golarion, and shoreborn half-elves can choose the child of the sea alternate racial trait.
For a creepier take on humanity, humans can select the aquatic ancestry alternate racial trait in Pathfinder RPG Horror Adventures. Changlings spawned from sea hags have the sea lungs special ability, but they can trade that for the ocean’s daughter alternate racial trait if the character is more interested in swimming than holding her breath. These rules can be found in Pathfinder RPG Advanced Race Guide.
Caps: What did we decide about feat taxes?
I really dig the occult classes. What do you not like about them?
~Feat Taxes: Simply because I would like to keep my life as simple as possible and without too many changes from standard play, I would like to keep the feat trees as published. I can see some points regarding the article that was linked in, but mainly I would like to stay more to familiar ground here.
~Occult Classes: My biggest problems can be rendered down to two things. First, most occult class PC's I have played with/GM'd for have been grossly overpowered and tend to own encounters. Whether this is due to min/maxing or just being broken, I have no clue.. but that is my experience with them. Secondly, it is a set of rules that tend to tie my brain in knots. I don't know why, but I tend to have a lot of trouble keeping the class rules straight in my head and normally feel like the player is getting one over on me. Once again, this may be specific players/PC's, but this has really left a bad taste for the entire book for me. If you feel that you really want to go there, I won't ban them.. I just don't like them. Of course, this could also just be an old D+D holdover that I absolutely hate psionics.. but I doubt this.
PW: Also, are we sticking with four or adding a fifth?
construct-crafting
~That is entirely up to yall. If you feel that we could use a fifth, we can go that route too! This would also allow for a slight bit of attrition, as if someone goes dark for a time, we won't have to immediately look to recruit someone or put the game on pause.
~All crafting feats and abilities are playable and allowed.
Cool, thanks for the responses.
Personally, I’d like to see a 5-person group. I think it allows for attrition, but also for better role-play opportunities if someone can’t post for a few days.
Lets see what the rest of the group says and go from there, PW!
What do yall think about THIS?? I've been working on it a bit tonight. I figured this would be better than a spread sheet to keep track of the other colonists.
~Two votes for another player. One more gives majority and I will start working on it.
Not sure what my GMT time is, but I live in the Midwest USA, southern Indiana. This places me in Central Standard Time.
A google search gave me this:
Greenwich Mean Time is 6 hours ahead of Central Time
4:32 AM Saturday, Central Time (CT) is
10:32 AM Saturday, Greenwich Mean Time (GMT)
Zinou: of all the languages that they speak in Switzerland, I did not think French would be that high on the list.. and yet you run the French speaking lodge. I thought you would have been in Paris or something!
Slides look great!!!
I live in the Alps, too.
Only they’re the Alps in Utah. ;P
Mountain time zone, here.
I think a fifth player sounds nice. What about GM Harker? If not him I have plenty of other suggestions. For a while I was keeping notes on players and GMs I had played with for just such a time as this. I haven't added to them in a while but most of my notes and observations are still relevant.
The slides look great. Mountain Time for me here too
I'm thinking about a Riverfolk Gillmen Eldritch Raider Rogue. GM, would you be okay with me using that archetype on Unchained Rogue? Eldritch Intuition would replace Danger Sense instead of Trap Sense.
Edit: oh, it's a moot point: "This ability counts as trap sense for the purpose of any feat or class prerequisite, and can be replaced by any archetype class feature that replaces trap sense."
Will Variant Multiclassing from Unchained be allowed?
RE: 5th Player: Zinou suggested Chris Marsh (DM S), and Caps suggests GM Harker. I would like to sumbit James Martin/ Our Mysterious Benefactor for review as well.
I have never played with GM Harker, but I know both of the other two as solid and consistent GM's. DM S has run a number of scenarios that I have played in and enjoyed, and James Martin/ OMB has been running a back to back series of modules for a group I have been in for almost two years.
If yall want to look these over or submit other names for review, we can get working on finding a consensus and get the invite out there. As for discussion of possible recruits, I would like to move that conversation Back over to the spreadsheet for a bit more privacy so we do not inadvertently cause problems with or for anyone.
Riverfolk Gillmen Eldritch Raider Rogue: Looking over it, I don't think that I would have a problem with this. The Riverfolk aspect takes care of needing to be submerged every day (which was my first concern about the Gillmen) and the Eldritch Raider gives a good reason for your PC to be involved with the colony. If you want it, go for it!
Variant Multiclassing: Looking it over, this seems to be a toned down version of Gestalt rules. I would rather stay away from this, as 1) I am trying to keep things as easy and simple as possible for everyone involved 2) I want to provide you a challenge without having to rewrite chunks of the book.. and OP characters (or characters gaining benefits from two classes at each level) would make this more difficult.
And while we are talking about time zones, I would like to make a note of my kind of odd posting habits.
Due to working two nightshift jobs, all of you here in the US are actually opposite of my posting schedule (in case you haven't noticed yet).
I am most prolific over the weekends, as my Fri-Sun job is in front of a computer and I can generally get a few posts up a night.
Monday is my turn around day, and it has been difficult and rather hit or miss for posts. Basically, I get off work from one job Mon AM, grab a few hours sleep before going to my second job, then pass out when I get home early Tues morning.
Mon-Thurs I do not have access to anything but my phone during work (and that only intermittently), and post after getting home.. generally about 3-5AM.
This does cause some delays between my last post Monday morning and my next post Tuesday or wed mornings, but its what I've got. If I am going to be gone or if I know my schedule is going to be upset, I try give my games a heads up at least a couple days in advance. Do any of yall have times/periods that are normal "blackouts" for you?
I spent most of the day looking at options. I think I have a decent prove outline of my character and what motivates her, and some of her personality. But I haven't settled on vanilla unchained rogue, knife master unchained rogue, Eldritch raider unchained rogue, or archaeologist Bard. I really really like having utility spells, and Rogue really just doesn't get any. I have little guarantee of being able to get the magical items I might want to supplement with via UMD.
Caps: No worries. We have plenty of time to work this out. I am not looking at getting this started until at least March sometime.
Zinou: lol, Yup! I am completely nocturnal, unfortunately. When you have those black outs, are you generally able to at least give a heads up?
I added my thoughts on the players to the other document.
Are we going to do PFS credit for this campaign? I would love to.
To my knowledge, RoA is not currently sanctioned, but if it gets sanctioned I would certainly be reporting it!
Hey, an Almost-Neighbor! Lol
Mountain Time for me here too
Which state, caps?
I wanted to compile our ideas for a group so far.
PJP: My first thought is a shaman, with either waves or a Deep Shaman with lots of watery blasts. Was considering grippli or undine for it, with sort of a fish-out-of-water theme. Might go half-elf with Kindred-Raised alternate too - might make it a little more melee friendly. I was also considering a hunter if we end up too caster based. I looked at druid too, but I have tried a few before and never really figured out how to play it. But then again, hunter and shaman would both be new ones for me.
PW: My first choice is a paranoid gnome illusionist I've been wanting to play in an AP. A couple other ideas I like are either a construct-crafting dwarf wizard (with mostly crafting feats), and a self-experimenting human alchemist.
Zinou: I think I'll go With a human or half elf ranger with the divine tracker and infiltrator archetypes. Hum it seems like nobody wants to play a melee class. I may want to play a ranger but I've also been interested in playing an investigator or bard / skald in a long-term AP.
I also think that playing a druid might be an interesting thing in this AP.I'm going to explore the ranger path for now but I'm still interested to make a skill/support build.
caps: I'm thinking about a Riverfolk Gillmen Eldritch Raider Rogue. But I haven't settled on vanilla unchained rogue, knife master unchained rogue, Eldritch raider unchained rogue, or archaeologist Bard.
Looks pretty balanced depending on what the last person brings in.. If someone brings in a ranger, you will at least be able to use CLW wands if you find them, and the ranger can switch hit as needed. Druid can do just as well too.
PJP: I don't know how I missed your comment about hunters, but I have two hunters; one a regular hunter with animal companion, and the other a feral hunter. They are both strong characters that can both fight and use magic. I enjoy them almost as much as my a$$ kicking slayer.
PW: Looks pretty good, and the crafting will go a long way towards getting yall through the first book.
|
|
@GMDD - I am trying to decide between a net using grippli and an undine - one of the racial features for an undine is:
Water Affinity: undine sorcerers with the elemental (water) bloodline treat their Charisma score as 2 points higher for all sorcerer spells and class abilities. undine clerics with the Water domain cast their Water domain powers and spells at +1 caster level.
Being a shaman doesn't seem to benefit here. Would you allow that shamans (who cast divine spells) also benefit as a cleric?
If not, it looks like I can at least trade it away for an alternate. But water casting is going to be heavy in my theme.
PW: Looks pretty good, and the crafting will go a long way towards getting yall through the first book.
The gnome illusionist and dwarf golem-crafter are different concepts. I am actually leaning toward the illusionist. Are you comfortable with illusions and such?
|
|
I have two concepts I am tinkering with now, neither really matches my original thoughts, but stays in the same ballpark. My original concept turned into a weather controlling necromancer that just didn't seem the right flavor.
First is a Grippli Wave Shaman who delivers touch spells with his long tongue, and throws a net to help control the battle field.
The other one is a Undine Hunter with a Walrus companion. I don't know why, I just love the image of a water/arctic character with a walrus bodyguard. I actually was first thinking polar bear. I am thinking it might be a Divine Hunter (so no teamwork feats, because the Undine is not going to be useful in melee), and probably a 1-2 level dip into Adept Druid. (Still not sure on this, but I think it works best). The concept is that the walrus is the main character, and the undine provides buffs and some ranged field control from the back.
Neither of these are really very powerful, but I think they will hold up for the most part and just seem fun to play. Both can play the role of healer to some extent, and I think both should be ok in water as well as land (eventually). The hunter gives us some more muscle, though.
Any thoughts?
From my understand of the AP we need to be good on land and (eventually) good in water. Which I think is the opposite of what you're talking about.
Otherwise the ideas are pretty cool! Maybe start with a polar bear?
The walrus character is going to be a real hindrance for you on land. My other concern is that you are in a jungle environment. Anyone know of any rules that might affect an arctic creature in a jungle environment? Off the top of my head I am drawing a blank. If there aren't any, then go for it. I will look here after a while myself.
Other than that, the grippli with the tongue is a great idea! I actually had a boon to play a grippli for society and one of my concepts was a cleric sort that used Lay On Hands.. using his tongue :-) 10' reach for LOH could make a real difference!! And the RP to go with it would have been amazing!!
So, seeing no further movement on the discussion for number 5, I will do this:
First invite to James, then another roll off for GM H/ Chris.
Yeah, I think that having a mostly aquatic character could backfire. I'm thinking this will be 85% land and 15% water, based on the description, anyway. I think we just want to be able to cope and not instantly drown.
Also, sorry that I didn't have input on the 3 potential players. Since others of you knew them, I thought I would defer.
@GMDD: Do you have any issues with illusion spells? I'm leaning toward the illusionist, but if you're not a fan of illusions I definitely have other concepts I can pursue.
I have no real opinion on illusion spells one way or the other, PW. If thats what you want, go for it!
Sounds good. I don't have any exploits or anything, I just know that some GMs are not fans and effectively nerf the illusion spells (for example, giving a save even if the illusion hasn't been interacted with).
Anyway, I'm still waiting to see what the others want to play, but am leaning toward the gnome illusionist.
What do you mean a save without it being interacted with? I guess it would depend on the illusion and the definition being used of "interacted with"..
James declined, so next up:
Just for example, Silent Image says:
Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with).
I understand that the definition of that is up to the GM and I'm good with that.
I guess my main issue is that illusion works better if there's a little latitude for creativity. I've played enough in your games to know you'll be fair.
I just didn't want to play that character if you didn't care for the concept.
Thank you for the vote of confidence there :-) in my opinion interacting with it can be pretty circumstantial. But with your creativity I believe we can find a happy middle ground!
Thanks for the invite to the game, I'm considering either a witch of some type (if PW doesn't play a Gnome Illusionist) or a Swashbuckler (for more DPR). I"m not sure of the race quite yet, but I'll probably have some aquatic affinity to make water environments less of an issue.
Also if there is some glaring hole in the party make up that needs to filled, I'm also open to suggestions.
I'm glad to see you'll be joining us, Harker!
Welcome, Harker!
Really, it seems to me that we are lacking a solid front liner, but that decision is all yours.. I say play what you want and what makes you happy!