Heimoth: You'll want to read Divine Challenge closer. The mark lasts only if you engage the target before the end of your turn. In the Power's description it spells out that engaging the target is defined as either attacking it or ending your turn adjacent to it. If you fail to engage the target, the mark ends at the end of your turn & you cannot use Divine Challenge next turn.
We can qibble about this, but the way I read it, I can mark a target at the end of my turn and then engage it on my next. And that was what I was planning to do until the stupid swordsman refused to lay down and die. BTW, what happens if I push a foe into a square occupied by another foe? Do they fall down?
I was wondering where you got this interpretation from until I saw this:
On your turn, you must engage the target you challenged or challenge a different target.
Is that where you're drawing your interpretation from? If so, that will teach me to read more closely! Everything else seems to clearly state you must engage the target of your Divine Challenge or the mark ends.
I was wondering where you got this interpretation from until I saw this:
On your turn, you must engage the target you challenged or challenge a different target.
Is that where you're drawing your interpretation from? If so, that will teach me to read more closely! Everything else seems to clearly state you must engage the target of your Divine Challenge or the mark ends.
That's my source. The way I see it, you can use your minor action to mark a guy at the beginning of your turn and then wade into him, or you can mark a guy at the end of your turn and then engage him on your next turn. The mark clearly disappears if I fail to engage the marked foe at the earliest opportunity on my turn. Of course, I could be wrong, but it seems reasonable to me.
Heimoth: You'll want to read Divine Challenge closer. The mark lasts only if you engage the target before the end of your turn. In the Power's description it spells out that engaging the target is defined as either attacking it or ending your turn adjacent to it. If you fail to engage the target, the mark ends at the end of your turn & you cannot use Divine Challenge next turn.
We can qibble about this, but the way I read it, I can mark a target at the end of my turn and then engage it on my next. And that was what I was planning to do until the stupid swordsman refused to lay down and die. BTW, what happens if I push a foe into a square occupied by another foe? Do they fall down?
I read that too and it is ambiguous. For example, if you mark someone at the end of your turn with Divine Challenge, is it a waste of time and lapse the moment you do it? It doesn't specify if it is this turn or the next one in the description, and it also begs the question of why make it burst 5 (I suppose you could attack at range, but few paladin powers do that). On that basis, I went with Vatters' interpretation.
Heimoth: You'll want to read Divine Challenge closer. The mark lasts only if you engage the target before the end of your turn. In the Power's description it spells out that engaging the target is defined as either attacking it or ending your turn adjacent to it. If you fail to engage the target, the mark ends at the end of your turn & you cannot use Divine Challenge next turn.
We can qibble about this, but the way I read it, I can mark a target at the end of my turn and then engage it on my next. And that was what I was planning to do until the stupid swordsman refused to lay down and die. BTW, what happens if I push a foe into a square occupied by another foe? Do they fall down?
I read that too and it is ambiguous. For example, if you mark someone at the end of your turn with Divine Challenge, is it a waste of time and lapse the moment you do it? It doesn't specify if it is this turn or the next one in the description, and it also begs the question of why make it burst 5 (I suppose you could attack at range, but few paladin powers do that). On that basis, I went with Vatters' interpretation.
Well... the burst 5 range on the challenge does allow you to mark an opponent prior to a charge & some paladin powers have extra effects on a marked/challenged target. And the reason you mark before charging is that you aren't allowed to take further actions after the charge. (the May rules update does make an exception for the Warden's free-action mark) Given that a Paladin's Divine Challenge requires a minor action, the extra utility this interpretation grants doesn't seem out of line, and it keeps marking at the end of your round from being useless so I figure that's the expected interpretation.
Oh and to answer your question about pushing an opponent into another's square, I don't think you can do that unless it's spelled out in your power. The general rule on sliding, pushing or pulling is that it must be to a square the target could move into normally. While you can move through an ally's square, you cannot end there, so I would say you couldn't push an opponent into another's square. See below for the actual text from the relevant part of the rules:
Clear Path: Forced movement can't move a target into a space it couldn't enter by walking. The target can't be forced into an obstacle or made to squeeze into a space.
I've shaded the PC's in Green, and bloodied characters in Red. The area marked in yellow is difficult terrain until the end of Quinn's next turn. Reading the Twisting Vines description, I think I made a mistake & O17 & O18 should be clear terrain.(But I'm too lazy to change it now that I've posted it.)
Doh. I guess I was more fuzzy-headed than I thought when I posted this. The adjacent bandits spawn difficult terrain in each others' spaces... So... I think the map does currently represent the current situation
HP 20/20 :: AC 18 :: +5 Perc, +3 Init :: Fort +2 Reflex +5 Will +1
as Marc's turn shouldn't affect my actions, and I may be out of pocket this evening, here goes... if Marc's actions make this moot.. well, w'll figure that out.
Thom, by the supernatural focus endowed by Gorum, barely registers the pain in his arm from the Leader's arrow. The urgency to end the fight makes his next swing a devastating overhand cut.
Aspect of Might against Bowman's AC - 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (11) + 6 = 17OR1d20 + 6 ⇒ (16) + 6 = 22; damage 3d10 + 3 ⇒ (6, 5, 8) + 3 = 22 - Whether this hits or misses, until the end of the encounter, Thom gains a +5 power bonus to Athletics, a +2 bonus to speed and all melee damage rolls.
If that kills the bowman:
Adrenaline coursing through his veins from his savage blow, Thom hears Gorums' whispers once more, and the ethereal fingers of his God turn his head towards the man who attacked him before. Thom's eyes lock on the Leader's, and with a wordless warcry, Thom bursts across the intervening distance and hacks with his greatsword.
Minor Action - Censure goes to the Leader. (Action Point) Standard Action - Charge to G14 using Basic Attack against Leader's AC - 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (20) + 6 = 26OR1d20 + 6 ⇒ (19) + 6 = 25; damage 1d10 + 4 ⇒ (2) + 4 = 6. *CRIT* damage = 14
I get 3 hit points back. Also, assume all attacks on the leader are meant to knock him unconscious, not kill.
Leader is now my censure - so if he moves away from me, my damage rolls get a +3 bonus against him until the end of my next round
If bowman is still standing:
The mighty swing failing to bring down his foe, Thom is urged onward, carried by his own pounding adrenaline, to strike once more.
Heimoth's witticism causes the leader visibly to wilt. Thom's approach is much more direct; with a meaty thunk he hacks down the bowman, who collapses gurgling. He then springs at the bandit leader, a risky overhand swing paying dividends as Thomdril drives him to his knees (no game effect as such, just a bit of licence).
Marc. If Raggy doesn't post today, we'll use his post from above for the rolls as necessary tomorrow.
I'm back! Sorry for the delay! (And thx for the help guys!)
OK< Took the first healing surge, now taking the second healing surge +3 (THANK YOU!) and using above posts (re-pasted here) on S3. Since I am still stunned, I think staying put is the best option! :)
The sight of his companions bursting forth from their positions of cover distracts his assailants, if only briefly, giving Marc the chance to gulp more air and steady his thoughts. Now at,... 22HP, 3 from full! and still at 15AC.
Still weaving on his feet, Marc slashes through the air with his long, oddly curved dagger, and a frosty blast of air gusts from his blade to batter at the swordsman threatening to disembowel him!
Reposted from other page/last post for ease of adjudication:
Spoiler:
>Arcane Spellfury- +1 to Att rolls after hitting with Sorcerer at-will
attack
>Sorcerous Blade Channeling- Use dagger to make Ranged attacks as Melee attacks
>Using dagger to to use Encounter power Frostbind on SS in O17. Att: Cha vs Fort, Hit: 3d6+Cha Mod(+4) cold dmg [DM: 3d6+7] and target takes -2 penalty to reflex until the end of your next turn.
1d20 + 5 (19) + 5 = 24
3d6 + 7 (6, 2, 1) + 7 = 16
"Really lads, Is that the BEST you can do?" Drawls the bloody but otherwise apparently almost uninjured dandy.
"I've taken a more thorough beating in a friendly chess game! And I was told that the frontier made men tougher! It would seem I was, misinformed,..." Quips Marc with a snide curl of his lip.
yeah....you tools took a long walk down the wrong alley. There's no going back. If you could, you wouldn't remember the way.
And when you do emerge from this....mistaken detour, this last shortcut, it'll be in the stomachs of numerous rats and crows.
I'm back! Sorry for the delay! (And thx for the help guys!)
OK< Took the first healing surge, now taking the second healing surge +3 (THANK YOU!) and using above posts (re-pasted here) on S3. Since I am still stunned, I think staying put is the best option! :)
The sight of his companions bursting forth from their positions of cover distracts his assailants, if only briefly, giving Marc the chance to gulp more air and steady his thoughts. Now at,... 22HP, 3 from full! and still at 15AC.
Still weaving on his feet, Marc slashes through the air with his long, oddly curved dagger, and a frosty blast of air gusts from his blade to batter at the swordsman threatening to disembowel him!
Reposted from other page/last post for ease of adjudication:
** spoiler omitted **
"Really lads, Is that the BEST you can do?" Drawls the bloody but otherwise apparently almost uninjured dandy.
"I've taken a more thorough beating in a friendly chess game! And I was told that the frontier made men tougher! It would seem I was, misinformed,..." Quips Marc with a snide curl of his lip.
Doh! With Hasren's slide of Marc, O17 is no longer a legitimate melee attack. I suppose you could shift the melee attack to O18.
Yep, it's a ranged power, with a Feat that let's me use it as a melee if I need to! so either way I'm good! :) However if there is one still in melee with me, THAT will be my target! (Take him down before they hit me again! That was scary!) ;P
Yep, it's a ranged power, with a Feat that let's me use it as a melee if I need to! so either way I'm good! :) However if there is one still in melee with me, THAT will be my target! (Take him down before they hit me again! That was scary!) ;P
Yep, I understood it's a ranged attack, but the melee guy in contact with you would get an OA if you tried to use it that way, which is why I figured you were using the dagger. Another option when guys are in close (and bunched up) like that (and when we aren't in the way) are your close blast attacks. Close blast & close burst attacks, don't provoke OA's from adjacent enemies like ranged and area attacks do.
Also... don't worry Marc! We got your back! While I only have one more Majestic Word to use this encounter, you can get some small bits of healing off the leader if Thom doesn't hack him down too quickly (not that Thom should take it easy on the guy.)
Oh... and Hasren is used to Paladins getting all the glory. Heck sometime he even aids & abets!
Marc's spell chills his adversary to the bone. Eyebrows rimed with frost and barely able to move, he and his (somewhat battered) compatriots stagger up in a last desperate attempt to bring down the smirking sorcerer. By sheer luck, two of them hit him and batter Marc into unconsciousness.
I'm assuming Marc is attacking the guy in O18. Bow is no longer with us, Greataxe is distinctly unhappy and Marc's recent foe is barely clinging on. The other sword-and-shield in that group was blasted by Aleph and likewise a bit crispy. However, Greataxe will move to O19, O18 will stay where he is and O17 will move to O18.
As Greataxe attacked someone other than me he'll take 5 points of damage from my Divine Challenge mark. What did the sword and shield guy facing me do?
Even as he cuts down Marc, the axe-weilding barbarian sizzles as Heimoth divine wrath smites him. Heimoth then takes some smiting of his own - a savage cut to the face from his nearest foe.
Critical hit - 11 damage.
Actually, since he didn't move before attacking Marc, O18 will move to O20 to keep Heimoth company.
Damn, forgot about that - probably because it happened about a week ago. OK, he will take the damage. The other guy will have a go at you.
Attack from SS1: 1d20+6, damage 1d8+3
Even as he cuts down Marc, the axe-weilding barbarian sizzles as Heimoth divine wrath smites him. Heimoth then takes some smiting of his own - a savage cut to the face from his nearest foe.
Critical hit - 11 damage.
Actually, since he didn't move before attacking Marc, O18 will move to O20 to keep Heimoth company.
Since Greataxe was marked by Heimoth he was -2 to hit Marc (well... anyone but Heimoth), so I think he missed & Marc is still up!
See! I told we had yer back covered Marc! :P
Gotta love those defenders & their marks!
I think SS2, SS3, & Greataxe are bloodied, SS1 & Leader are damaged. Naturally, awaiting Aubrey's say so on their statuses. Maybe to help Aubrey keep track, we should post an end of round summary? Erm... and even though I'm likely the biggest offender, put the ooc comments in the other thread to make keeping track of the round easier?
We'll have to take better note of who is marked. I certainly don't think we should put combat information in the discussion thread, as I don't think flicking between threads is going to help. 4e is a bit harder (as I'm finding) to keep running in your head so I think I need to be more organised in keeping track of who has what conditions. I would suggest we simply update the initiative track with people's conditions (Marked, Dazed, Bloodied etc.) as they arise.
Not sure either - you might wish to put whether your various powers are minor ot standard actions in Quinn's write-up. But I suspect D13 is a double move anyway.
Not sure either - you might wish to put whether your various powers are minor ot standard actions in Quinn's write-up. But I suspect D13 is a double move anyway.
CLose blast powers do NOT trigger AO's? Well that's good to know! (For the future! Heh.) ;) I will await the end-of-round summary to find if I am still standing or not! Go Get'em!
OK, here's the deal. Given the chaos that has ensued in this combat (and mostly my fault) I don't want to retcon too much. So Marc is still unconscious, but I'll make it up to him (we'll name the village Wyvernspur's Grave or something). The whole fight maybe has a round to go, so everything should be fine.
The bandit leader finally twigs that he has led his men into a trap. So he does the responsible thing: he turns and runs for his life.
AoO from Thom. He is running, so he also grants combat advantage. Otherwise, a double run move from the Leader man heading west, so he is 16 squares away if he makes it.
Initiative Marc 21 - unconscious Thom 14+
Greataxe 14 - bloodied, marked (the mark will expire at the end of Heimoth's turn unless he renews it)
S&S 14-- - all bloodied Quinn 13
Leader 12 - granting combat advantage Heimoth 12 Aleph 7 Haz Gunn 4
Heimoth looks at the staggering, bloodied thugs approaching him. With a big grin, he wades into their midst.
Initial standard action: use Valiant strike the swordsman in N22. As there are two guys next to me, my STR increases to 18. Attack roll 13+6=AC 19, damage 7+4=11. Hopefully that'll drop him. Move action: step to N20. I then use my action point to get an extra standard action, which I use to blast Greataxe with Piercing Smite. Attack roll versus Greataxe's REFLEX defense 12+5=17, damage 2d10+3=15. This also marks the two swordsmen next to him (this is a different mark - the only effect is that I'll do more damage against them with my Holy Strike power). Finally, I use my minor action to Challenge the swordsman in P18, just in case he decides to do something stupid to the unconscious Marc (replacing the Piercing Smite mark as marks don't stack).
"Bah! You're not so tough when not beating up on women and children, are you?"
Heimoth strikes one of the bandits, leaving him rocking on his heels. He then presses the attack on the barbarian. With Gorum at his side he virtually peels off the axeman's armour with his strike, and the bandit is dead before he hits the ground. Heimoth's then calls on his foes to do their worst.
Marc 21 - unconscious
Thom 14+
Heimoth's turn unless he renews it)
S&S 14-- - all bloodied, all marked by Heimoth (P18 with Divine Challenge)
Quinn 13
Leader 12 - unconscious
Heimoth 12
Aleph 7
Haz Gunn 4
Still singing the Ulfen War Chant, Hasren focuses power into his refrain & awakens Marc with a Majestic Word. He then casually strides over to the bandit in square O18 and with the power he summons from an Inspiring Refrain, confidently strikes out at the bandit from square N17.
minor action, Majestic Word grants surge+3hp to Marc move action, stride over to square N17 standard action, strike at bandit in square O18 with Inspiring Refrain To Hit: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (4) + 6 = 10 vs AC On a hit: 2d8 + 3 ⇒ (5, 7) + 3 = 15 damage and all allies within 5 squares gain a +1 power bonus to attack rolls until the end of my turn. I think that's Heimoth & Marc
Bah! Hasren heats up the courtyard with a lot of hot air & the warmth of his breath revives Marc! :P Sadly no one gets the bonus to hit.
The system seems straightforward enough - my problems lie more with the fact that everything is so new and different. So many powers...
Amen brotha, my head is swimming trying to follow all of this. I think I'll just pay attention to my own stuff for now, and cheer or jeer as it seems appropo for everyone else...at least until I figure this out.
MArc raises his head groggily from the dirt where it had been resting.
"Did I get 'em?" He asks blearily.
Thanks for the help! (again!) Current HP=9 (I believe?)
The dandy blinks dirt from his eyes, his eyes widening as he remembers just where he is and what is happening. He picks himsel fup as quickly as he can, staggering a little, and hisses as makes a jab with his dagger at the nearest foe,...
Let's keep it simple, Move action to stand, (I'm not next to a foe so no AO, correct? If I AM next to a foe, I'll just lie there!) Standard, Acid Orb (vs Ref) on the nearest standing foe.
When you are unconscious but get to spend a heaing surge, you start from zero and add from there, you don't take the negative points into account. Also, there is no AoO from standing up in 4e. Also, I think someone is standing next to you but you can do your party trick with the dagger so no harm done.
The enemy (at P18) sizzles and drops.
Thom.
Marc 21 - bloodied
Thom 14+
S&S 14-- - all bloodied, all marked by Heimoth
Quinn 13
Leader 12 - unconscious
Heimoth 12
Aleph 7
Haz Gunn 4
HP 20/20 :: AC 18 :: +5 Perc, +3 Init :: Fort +2 Reflex +5 Will +1
Can i whack his unconscious body for my last 3 hp? Just Kidding
The tall youth reaches down to whichever of his unconscious foes's body-parts is closest and grabs ahold, carelessly and one-handedly dragging the leader of the bandits back through the gates.
I figure it's a move or standard to reach down and grab the guy, and then use my move action to drag him back in. If I can drag him at full speed, Thom ends in N19. If only half speed, then he ends in L14.
As he rounds the corner, seeing the remaining ragged bandits still fighting he shouts in a very steady and un-nervous voice, "ANY OF THOSE FOLLOWING THIS MAN WHO DO NOT DROP WEAPON NOW HAS SEEN THEIR LAST SUN-RISE!"
more for flavor… i dont have any actions left to try an intimidate check
