Counterspelling and heightened spells

Hi everyone,

I was reading Counterspell rules, and I don't find anything about heightened spells. Can I counterspell using the same spell at a different level than the one I counterspell?

Thanks for your insight!

Hi everyone,

I was reading Counterspell rules, and I don't find anything about heightened spells. Can I counterspell using the same spell at a different level than the one I counterspell?

Thanks for your insight!

The rules seem to treat a heightened version of a non-focus, non-cantrip spell as an entirely different spell, as shown by the fact that a spontaneous caster must learn the spell at the specific level he wishes to cast it, and a prepared caster must prepare it at the specific level he wishes to cast it, so I'd say no, as it's not the "same spell". Essentially a Level 1 Darkness and a Level 4 Darkness are not the same spell.

SuperBidi wrote:

Hi everyone,

I was reading Counterspell rules, and I don't find anything about heightened spells. Can I counterspell using the same spell at a different level than the one I counterspell?

Thanks for your insight!

The rules seem to treat a heightened version of a non-focus, non-cantrip spell as an entirely different spell, as shown by the fact that a spontaneous caster must learn the spell at the specific level he wishes to cast it, and a prepared caster must prepare it at the specific level he wishes to cast it, so I'd say no, as it's not the "same spell". Essentially a Level 1 Darkness and a Level 4 Darkness are not the same spell.

Hard disagree. I believe it's the same spell, and the level you heighten it matters for the counteract check, based on four degrees of success. So if the enemy is casting a 1st level Magic Missile, and you chose to Counterspell with your 3rd level Magic Missile, even on a result of Failure the counterspell works, since your counteract level is 3 and theirs is 1. In the reverse case (trying to Counterspell a level 3 Magic Missile with a Level 1 Magic Missile), you need a Critical Success for it to work, because a regular Success only lets you counteract one level higher.

The more I read about identifying spells and the more I think First World Bard is right:

"Identifying Spells
Source Core Rulebook pg. 305
Sometimes you need to identify a spell, especially if its effects are not obvious right away. If you notice a spell being cast, and you have prepared that spell or have it in your repertoire, you automatically know what the spell is, including the level to which it is heightened."

It looks like a spell is not different because of the level it is heightened.

Aratorin wrote:

SuperBidi wrote:

Hi everyone,

I was reading Counterspell rules, and I don't find anything about heightened spells. Can I counterspell using the same spell at a different level than the one I counterspell?

Thanks for your insight!

The rules seem to treat a heightened version of a non-focus, non-cantrip spell as an entirely different spell, as shown by the fact that a spontaneous caster must learn the spell at the specific level he wishes to cast it, and a prepared caster must prepare it at the specific level he wishes to cast it, so I'd say no, as it's not the "same spell". Essentially a Level 1 Darkness and a Level 4 Darkness are not the same spell.

Hard disagree. I believe it's the same spell, and the level you heighten it matters for the counteract check, based on four degrees of success. So if the enemy is casting a 1st level Magic Missile, and you chose to Counterspell with your 3rd level Magic Missile, even on a result of Failure the counterspell works, since your counteract level is 3 and theirs is 1. In the reverse case (trying to Counterspell a level 3 Magic Missile with a Level 1 Magic Missile), you need a Critical Success for it to work, because a regular Success only lets you counteract one level higher.

After reading the Identifying Spells entry, you are probably correct.

-OR-
They could be saying that a heightened spell, while being a different spell, isn't sufficiently different for you not to recognize it even if it is heightened to a different level. Assuming you've prepared it or it is in your repertoire. (This meaning that it is "in your memory" in some sense.) I think it would be too onerous a penalty to say you had to just happen to have the spell prepared/in repertoire at the same heightened level at the one just cast. And it would also create a bizarre special case for someone with a Signature spell who observed a spell being cast.

Hi everyone,

I was reading Counterspell rules, and I don't find anything about heightened spells. Can I counterspell using the same spell at a different level than the one I counterspell?

That is how I have always read it. The rules don't say anything about having to have the spell at the same level, and I think that was a deliberate choice. Like First World Bard said, it would make counteract rules way more complicated than necessary for counterspell.