a couple questions about spontaneous casting


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


1.)is there a spontaneous casting class that is not based on cha?
2.)with sorcerer as the base is there a better spontaneous casting class and reason why?
3.) not a question but no 3pp please.


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1: Yes. In addition to the Wildblooded bloodlines for sorcerers Sage and Empyreal (Which change the casting stat to Int and Wis, respectively), the occult classes are all spontaneous, with the Occultist and Psychic being Int-based, and the Spiritualist being Wis-based. You also have the Arcanist, which is sort of spontaneous, and is Int-based, the Kineticist (using a loose definition of 'casting) is Con-based, and there might be a few archetypes I'm forgetting as well.
2: Define "better." The Sor/Wiz spell list is arguably the strongest in the game, but going off of class features alone, you can do some great things with the Oracle (and maybe the occult classes too. I haven't tried them.). Not confining it to merely full casters, the chained summoner is frequently considered a blatantly OP class. Bards are also fun.
3: No problem.


1: Also hunters (wis), ley line witches (int) & inquisitors (wis).
2: Sorcerers are the best blasters and are also the best at a couple of obscure niches, but for anything else there are spontaneous casters which can do it better. See: heavens oracle using color spray for save-or-suck for an example of this.


better as in more spells per day or stronger spell casting. something like that.


Nope. You could likely pull off some shenanigans with Mystic Theurge (not recommended) to get tons of spells per day, but most full casters hold to a pretty similar pattern of SPD (Spells Per Day).


To get more spells per day you'd need to look at a prepared caster.

The heavens oracle is a stronger spell caster in its niche. If you had a sorcerer specialised in a particular way, the odds are good that there's another spontaneous caster which can do the same specialisation at least as well, probably better.


Quote:
better as in more spells per day or stronger spell casting. something like that.

I don't think any other spontaneous casting class surpasses the Sorcerer in that regard. He has both the best spells and can cast them more often. While other spontaneous casting classes do have a lot of cool features to offer, if it's sheer quality and quantity of spells we're talking about then Sorcerer is top dog.

Quote:
Not confining it to merely full casters, the chained summoner is frequently considered a blatantly OP class.

This one has a huge YMMV asterisk, especially if you're looking at it primarily for spellcasting power. Yes, it's got the best 6-level class spell list, but it's still a 6-level list and there's a pretty huge gulf between it and the Sorcerer in that regard.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Investigator (psychic detective) uses INT.


avr wrote:
To get more spells per day you'd need to look at a prepared caster.

Aren't spontaneous casters supposed to get more spells per day than prepared ones?


Khudzlin wrote:
avr wrote:
To get more spells per day you'd need to look at a prepared caster.
Aren't spontaneous casters supposed to get more spells per day than prepared ones?

they do yeh - not incl bonus spells from ability score sorc get 6 of every spell lvl at lvl 20, wiz get 4 of each lvl and both get 1 spell/spell lvl from arcane school/bloodline


Khudzlin wrote:
avr wrote:
To get more spells per day you'd need to look at a prepared caster.
Aren't spontaneous casters supposed to get more spells per day than prepared ones?

Supposed to, yes. Once you count in the half-spell level extra & domains/schools which prepared casters get and spontaneous casters don't it tends to be more even. Then pearls of power are half the cost of runestones which pushes it towards the prepared casters, and if you go all the way there are a few things like wizard Thassilionian specialists which leave no question which type of casting can get more spells.


The designers must really hate spontaneous casting to lean so much in favor of prepared casting.


Spontaneous casting still has a pretty big advantage with its dynamic metamagic. A ranged blaster shouldn't need their move action that often anyway.


Spontaneous casters still get spells 1 level later than their prepared counterparts and know far fewer spells.


Khudzlin wrote:
Spontaneous casters still get spells 1 level later than their prepared counterparts and know far fewer spells.

For a blaster, getting spells one level later doesn't matter as much once you get fireball. And how many spells the prepared caster knows varies a lot based on character wealth and how many of his resources the prepared caster wants to pour into gaining new spells.


also spontaneous are a bit more versatile in 1 way, in that you can use the same spell all day if you want and don't have to have prepared for that in advance


For completeness, the arcanist gets the best of both prepared and spontaneous, but suffers from not having a lot of spell slots. So, the arcanist probably makes the best generalist and maybe the worst blaster.


2) Psychic with the Rebirth discipline gets a flexible spell known from off-list, changeable every day. That goes a long way towards addressing issues of spells known.

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