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I saw this idea in another thread and wanted to see how far we could theorycraft it. I didn't want to detract from his thread as this wasn't exactly what he was going for (but it was close).
Benefit: When in combat, if you deal fire damage to an enemy, you heal 1 hit point. You can only benefit from this healing once per round. Attacks that cause a target to catch on fire heal you each round the target takes fire damage.
So obviously you have to be an Orc or Half Orc and to get the Rage Power we will have to make him a Barbarian (there are other ways but IMO not as good). Having a way to consistently deal fire damage every turn preferably at both melee and range will be good. Having ways to make things burn would be good. Also having multiple different ways to heal to make efficient use of Lesser Celestial Totem would be good as well.
Rage Prophet seems like a great choice for this build. It isn't the only choice but thats what is on my mind right now. So...
Things that are in my wheelhouse for this build include:
Moment of Clarity (required for Rage Prophet
Lesser Elemental Rage, Elemental Rage
Flesh Wound, Guarded Life, Greater Guarded Life (When a spell or ability cures hit point damage, it also removes an equal amount of nonlethal damage.)
Renewed Vigor, Regenerative Vigor
The Flame Mystery (since because... duh.): They are all good but I really like Heat Aura
Lame curse (rage cycling. Yay!)
I'm thinking that for a build like this that throwing caution to the wind with AC and going for a high HP/Con would be the way to go. Taking damage shouldn't be much of a concern when you are being offensive and healing every turn. Things like Reckless Abandon would be great for this build but I think I'll already be strapped for feats. Power Attack will need to be fit in there somewhere as well. I'm thinking the weapon of choice here would be a Greataxe. Invulnerable Rager also seems like the way to go here.
Before the character gets a flaming weapon (very high priority on his list) I'm looking for ideas on ways to consistently deal fire damage. All I got is using a torch and that isn't very cool. And before you suggest it, no... this character will not be wasting a feat on Firebrand.
Fire Shield would be a great spell to have added to the spell list of an Oracle but I have no idea how to do that outside of spell research and DM approval and I'd rather not have to rely on that. I guess I could UMD a wand of it... bleh.
Ideas? Suggestions?
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Fire gods blessing is the first way I found of getting unlimited heals, but ideally you want something that can work more than once a round.
It is also worth noting that celestial totem is not allowed in pfs, which Is the reason I stopped chasing further answers. Will be watching this thread with interest.
You could solve the orc prereq by dipping 1 level into orc bloodline sorcerer and be an ifrit to begin with. They get a feat to deal 1 fire damage in addition to their weapon damage.
If you can UMD it you could try to get a wand of flameblade.
On firebrand: No need to rule it out as firegod's blessing and firebrand are mutual exclusive. Each needs you to have a specific deity.
You could solve the orc prereq by dipping 1 level into orc bloodline sorcerer and be an ifrit to begin with. They get a feat to deal 1 fire damage in addition to their weapon damage.
If you can UMD it you could try to get a wand of flameblade.
On firebrand: No need to rule it out as firegod's blessing and firebrand are mutual exclusive. Each needs you to have a specific deity.
No dipping is needed.
He could take Racial Heritage (Ifrit) as a half-orc, and then take scorching weapons.Overall, between using a torch at the lowest leves, the elemental rage abilities when availiable, I think he is covered as far as healing goes to start with.
I would try to look at non-fire ways of getting healing as well, to really utilize lesser celestial totem. Going oracle of life or battle, would give you the cure spells as a swift action.
Disclaimer: I wouldn't allow the synergy between these two abilities at my table. Going from 1 per round to 1+lvl per rounds, is simply too strong an increase in my opinion.
Dipping Orc Bloodline Sorceror doesn't really help a non-Orc/non-Half Orc fulfill Feat Pre-Reqs needing you to be an Orc/Half-Orc.
You gain the Orc Subtype, but that doesn't correlate to counting as being an "Orc" or "Half-Orc" (as the Feat needs)...
Those are two distinct Races after all, the Pre-Req is not "Orc Subtype" as a general category (i.e. as Bane works like, per Humanoid Subtype).
Racial Heritage does work though.
In terms of non-Fire healing options, I wonder: would Infernal Healing work? It's also "Conjuration (Healing)" just like CLW/et al.
Fast Healing supposedly normally works like "normal" healing, not magical, etc, but the spell is typed exactly as CLW is, and clearly IS magical.
(thus, a case of specific over-riding general, FH normally being an Ex creature ability, but Infernal Healing working differently?)
Actually, a related option might be with an Inquisitor build (which can integrate with Rage via Rage Sub-Domain/Anger Inquisition),
using the Healing Judgement (Fast Healing). I would hazard that the same ruling for Infernal Healing applies here.
Otherwise, I might think grabbing a Familiar that can Cure you (either itself via certain Improved Familiar's SLAs/Su Abilities, or Wands, etc) would be a convenient way to get "free" (action economy) healing consistently thru-out a battle.
You can get a Hawk Familiar thru the Eagle Domain (normally Druid but seemingly legit for Domain granting class with tie to Nature, which any Cleric/Inquisitor/SacredServantPally whose Deity grants 'Nature' themed Domains could seemingly qualify for).
Or certain Summons can also 'spam' Cures on you round after round while they are active.
I think your example build goes way overboard in HP boosting stuff, with effective Regen = 1+Level/round,
putting that much effort into further boosting your functional HP total just seems pointless.
I'd much rather see stuff put towards just being damn effective at combat, rather than a damage sponge that is ignorable.
But since there's a wide variety of such approaches that don't really have much connection to the topic of this thread,
actually getting into those details would probably just derail the thread... Still, I can't advocate over-investing so much in 1 area.
I do not think racial heritage works as ifrits are outsiders and not humanoids. And as far as I know racial heritage only works for humanoid races.
As far as Ifrits yes, but I just meant it could help another (Humanoid)non-Orc/Half-Orc count as that to qualify for that part. Basically, Humans and Half-Elves and Scion of Humanity Aasimar and anything else you get Racial Heritage to work for.
There are some shenanigans he might pull off that include dipping. Or he might try to get other party members to help with this:
The celestial blooded sorc gets an ability that heals good targets and damages evil ones.
The witch can heal via healing hex, works while raging.
The alchemist can learn a discovery to heal himself.
The life necromancer can heal targets of his spells btw those affected. This will not directly help the barb because he can't cast while raging and doesn't get the ragepowers while not raging but party members might help. And a rage prophet can cast spells while raging, later on at least. And the life wizard ability works on all spells. Edit: Casting spells other than cures doesn't come before level 8 rage prophet. A little late.
Life oracle instead of flame would give you channeling. With quick channel that would work.
If you have a tag-team partner: Both be life oracle/barbarian with celestial totem, lesser and life link each other. When life link works it heals one and damages the other. Add the revelation that turns overheal into temp HP and let the show begin.
Just noticed spirit boost only works on spells... but the life link tag team works fine without it.
My2Copper: The alchemist ability that I believe you are refering to will not work as it emulates fast healing. The Celestial blooded sorc can only target a person once per day with that ability, though it would be in theme to go with both a celestial totem and celestial bloodline, I suppose.
As far as the Orc Bloodline Sorcerer thing goes I don't think that most DMs would bar that from working as while it may not be precisely RAW it doesn't seem to cause a balance issue and (to me, at least) seems in line with what was likely RAI. For the sake of this thread lets assume that it is allowable. The question then is... is that really the best option to go with? To me Oracle seems like a better mix with Barbarian than Sorcerer does. Sorcerer does have some good spells that would fit though.
Zedorland: Thank you for giving me the idea by the way. :) Pleasure to have you here for input. I don't think it is unlimited heals though as it is limited by the number of rage rounds/day you can get.
Umbranus: Actually, Fire God's Blessing does not require a specific deity. Only that the character be a "worshiper of a god of fire". There are several gods that would qualify.
Where did you read the feat? On d20pfsrd they removed all specific gods. But originally it was only for "the firegod", an orc deity.
d20pfsrd.com
There you will not find any golarion gods because those are not open license. They removed any mention and changed some prc/feat/trait names at the same time.
They didn't remove it from Firebrand.
Much weaker than what has been suggested thus far, but there is a trait (Flame of the Dawnflower) that adds 2 fire damage to your attack whenever you crit with a scimitar if you worship Sarenrae. She has the fire domain, so should qualify for Fire God's Blessing. So you could have this up and running at level 1. Also fits in thematically with fire god's blessing and lesser celestial totem, as she is a good diety of fire and the sun.
Higher level, you'd be better off with a flaming weapon, but it might be a nice boon at low level.
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We can go to the specifics on pg 27 of Orcs of Golarion:
"Instead of a single god, many orc shamans worship dark and nameless gods"
"The gods of the orc cults are as varied as the orc tribes themselves, but several of these deities (or the concepts they embody) are common enough to reappear again and again among different tribes and in different regions of the world. The following list catalogs the most widespread orc gods by their moat common "name", followed by their portfolio:
The Fire God: god of fire, destruction, and magic"
"Most non-orc theologians believe that these orc "gods" are not actual deities, but rather concepts that are fufilled by various gods."
"The gods of the orc cults are chaotic evil, and their symbol is a large weapon (usually a falchion or greataxe, but varying by tribe), often dripping with bloodor enveloped in a nimbus of flame"
There is a bunch more, but is a bit difficult to type all of it on a phone.
Thank you, Cao. I think you nailed the RAI bit of it. And since it is a fairly under-powered feat I dont think there is any balance debate. Since the rest of the debate lies in the hands of a DM's opinion I think it is safe to move on.
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I think the name "the fire god" gets around pfsrd's copyright issues by not using any proper nouns. Hence they don't have to change it. Probably.
The interesting thing about celestial totem is that is doesn't really care at all about your barbarian level, so this could be used for a quick dip to unlock the power. The problem there is keeping up your rages.
Barbarian (drunken rager) would allow for almost infinite uses of rage a day. Or at least a very large number. This could be used to fuel out of combat healing.
A good spell that would heal a great deal more life than It should do is good berries. It heal 1 hit point eight times, which would give the barbarian a lot of healing for 1 level 1 spell.
So, yeah... I'm thinking that going with Half-Orc with Racial Heritage: Ifrit and then taking Scorching Weapons is the most consistant way of dealing fire damage. It takes 2 feats, one of which has to be at first level, though.
So, yeah... I'm thinking that going with Half-Orc with Racial Heritage: Ifrit and then taking Scorching Weapons is the most consistant way of dealing fire damage. It takes 2 feats, one of which has to be at first level, though.You can't take racial heritage of a native outsider. Only humanoid race groups (cat folk, kitsune etc)
I understand that. However, you also have to consider that some of this rests in the hands of a DM. Ask yourself, if you were the DM, would you allow it? I think any sane DM would. The fluff text states, "The blood of a non-human ancestor flows in your veins." Is it not possible for Ifrit blood to flow in your veins? I believe that it is the intention for this to allow for use with Aasimars, Ifrits, etc. even though it is not worded so. My logic follows that of the fluff as the intention for what the mechanics were meant to accomplish.
With no balance related issue (honestly its fairly under powered), no reason RP wise to see why it wouldn't be possible and for it to rest in the hands of the DM many of whom I think it is safe to say would allow it I think it is safe to proceed forward under that assumption. I mean... unless you know for sure my DM wouldn't allow it? ;)
Dont wanna wield a torch as a weapon.
Ok, here is what I came up with. Please critique my build:
With 20 point buy...
Str 15
Dex 12
Con 18 (+2 racial)
Int 10
Wis 13
Cha 8
Half-Orc using the following Alternate Racial Traits:
Sacred Tattoo
Shaman's Apprentice
Every Barbarian level he will take the Favored Class Option to gain +1 round of rage/day
All Barbarian levels are Invulnerable Rager
1st - Barbarian 1: Fast Movement, Rage, Endurance (bonus), Racial Heritage: Ifrit (1st)
2nd - Barbarian 2: Invulnerability, Rage Power: Lesser Celestial Totem
3rd - Oracle 1: Curse: Lame, Mystery: Flame, Orisons, Revelation: Heat Aura 1/day, Fire God's Blessing (3rd)
4th - Barbarian 3: Extreme Endurance
5th - Barbarian 4: Rage Power: Moment of Clarity, Scorching Weapons (5th)
6th - Oracle 2: Mystery Spell: Burning Hands
7th - Rage Prophet 1: Savage Seer, Spirit Guide, Immunity to Fatigue, Power Attack (7th)
8th - Rage Prophet 2: Rage Prophet Mystery: See Invisability, Raging Healer
9th - Rage Prophet 3: Indomitable Caster, Die Hard (9th)
10th - Rage Prophet 4: Rage Caster, Rage Prophet Mystery: Spiritual Weapon, Heat Aura 2/day
11th - Barbarian 5: Fast Healer (11th)
12th - Barbarian 6: Rage Power: Guarded Life
13th - Barbarian 7: Extra Rage Power: Renewed Vigor (13th)
14th - Barbarian 8: Speed never reduced by armor, Rage Power: Greater Guarded Life
15th - Barbarian 9: Extra Rage Power: Regenerative Vigor (15th)
16th - Barbarian 10: Rage Power: Flesh Wound
17th - Barbarian 11: Greater Rage, Toughness (17th)
18th - Barbarian 12: Rage Power: Mighty Swing
19th - Barbarian 13: Extra Rage (19th)
20th - Barbarian 14: Indomitable Will, Rage Power: Fearless Rage
So at 15th level this character could do the following:
If he activates Renewed Vigor he would heal 3d8 +Con*1.5 +15, and gain Fast Healing 2 until the rage ends healing points 17/per turn. When he attacks and deals fire damage with his Scorching Weapons he would heal for 16 points of damage 1/round. And those attacks wouldn't tickle as they would be Raging, Scorching, Two-Handed, Power Attacks.
At this level he would also have DR 4/-, a passable AC, hugh amounts of HP (he is getting even more next two levels with Toughness and Greater Rage) and several ways of soaking damage. With Greater Guarded Life he can convert 26 points of lethal damage to non-lethal damage. When healing he will heal an equal number of non-lethal hit points of damage so a single turn of Regenerative Vigor and his Lesser Celestial Totem/Fire God's
Blessing combo will heal him for 33 real and all of that non-lethal damage for a total of 59 points of healing. He would be doing this at no cost to his action economy and while full attacking. Oh, and next level he would be able to use his Flesh Wound Rage Power to convert even more damage to non-lethal which he can heal back quickly.
Crap, forgot they are Cha casters rather than Wis casters. Ok. Switch Cha and Wis. Hm. Will saves are going to be a bit low. Not much to do to fix that at least until late levels.
Captain Netz: Yeah, I was thinking something like how the Chaos Orcs differ from the regular orcs in Warcraft lore.
What about going at this the other way.
Ifrit with Mostly Human alt racial, take Racial Heritage (half orc), with Scorching Weapon, Blessing of the Fire God, and Lesser Celestial Totem.