My animal, at level 2 is gonna have 4 intelligence. from the human alternate trait "eye for talent" (+2 to any ability score for companions)
At second level, i want my animal to have a weapon proficiency feat. My GM says i cant do that because my animal cannot "train" because he does not have hands to currently quip the sword, even though he is fine with him wielding one once i antropormegic animal it. but he dosent know if he can once he has the hands to "train".
TL.DR I want my animal to be proficient with a sword, my gm says no, gm says i can have my cat use a sword.
Is it possible to let my animal have a weapon feat after im able to antro it?
As far as the rules are concerned, its possible to give your animal companion proficiency with weapons without it being able to use them. Being able to use them isn't a prerequisite. How they get to use them is another question entirely... but they can know how to wield a greatsword with the best of them yo'.
that's what i tried telling him but i would like to know where the exact ruling of this is.
(hero lab allows it and hero lab is usually right)
edit: "physically capable of using"
Animal Feats wrote: Animal companions can select from the following feats: Acrobatic, Agile Maneuvers, Armor Proficiency (light, medium, and heavy), Athletic, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Diehard, Dodge, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Armor, Improved Natural Attack, Improved Overrun, Intimidating Prowess, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility, Power Attack, Run, Skill Focus, Spring Attack, Stealthy, Toughness, Weapon Finesse, and Weapon Focus. Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using. GMs might expand this list to include feats from other sources.
For PFS
Quote: Can I improve my companion’s Intelligence to 3 or higher and give it weapon feats?
No. An Intelligence of 3 does not grant animals sentience, the ability to use weapons or tools, speak a language (though they may understand one with a rank in Linguistics; this does not grant literacy), or activate magic devices. Also note that raising an animal companion’s Intelligence to 3 or higher does not eliminate the need to make Handle Animal checks to direct its actions; even semi-intelligent animals still act like animals unless trained not to. An animal with Intelligence of 3 or higher remains a creature of the animal type unless its type is specifically changed by another ability. An animal may learn 3 additional tricks per point of Intelligence above 2.
Intelligent Animals Blog
Quote: Another aspect of intelligent animals is tool use. There are a number of feats that convey an understanding and the proper use of weapons and armor. Generally speaking, these feats are off-limits to animals, but when their intelligence reaches 3, the rules state that they can use any feat that they are physically capable of using. Some people take this to mean that they can equip their animal companion in chainmail and arm him with a greatsword given the correct feats. While you could interpret the rules in this way, the "capable of use" clause is very important. Most weapons require thumbs to use properly, and even then, few animals would choose to use an artificial weapon in place of the natural weapons that have served them all their life. It's what they were born with, after all, and virtually no amount of training will change that. In the end, the GM should feel free to restrict such choices if he feels that they take away from the feel of his campaign. The rules themselves are left a little vague to give the GM the latitude to make the call that's right for his campaign. Intelligent Animals PRD
An animal with Int 3+ can take any feat it is physically capable of using. That is in the animal companion section. If the animal is only physically capable when under the effect of the spell , it is a judgement call on part of the GM.
Remember the final rule - the GM is right. That is, the GM has the right to rule that in his (or her) game, rules don't follow RAW exactly, to avoid abuse like this. Sure, RAW allows the scenario you are trying to accomplish, but that's not only munchkinism but also very silly.
How DO you imagine you would be able to train anything or anyone without them being able to even handle the object of the training? Without excessive amounts of V/R, it's just not feasible. So, unless you invest in an 11th level wizard cohort to create a nice illusionary training landscape, plus some polymorphs on the poor animal with long durations, I don't see this ever succeed. And even then, I'd personally call it abuse - of the animal, if not the rules.
This still dosent answer the anthropomorphic question. it gets rid of natural attacks ( except bite ) and can use tools/weapons as well a human can.
Right, but the feat is taken for the normal state of the animal... unless you use permanency on your animal companion, I don't see a way around that.
The general rule is that an effect has to last 24hrs to be considered permanent for the purposes of meeting prerequisites.
I'd point out the Fly skill to the DM. You can try in Fly once you can get some practice every day flying. Given that Anthropomorphic Animal lasts for 1 hour/level, I think that should allow for taking feats. Once you can cast the spell regularly anyhow.
Archaeik wrote: Right, but the feat is taken for the normal state of the animal... unless you use permanency on your animal companion, I don't see a way around that.
The general rule is that an effect has to last 24hrs to be considered permanent for the purposes of meeting prerequisites.
The only "24 hour" rule like that I know of is in terms of bonuses to ability scores. There's no general rule as far as feat pre-requisites go, however.
There is no rule stating that the animal must be physically capable of using the feat at all times, only that it must be physically capable of using the feat. I suspect the designers leave this intentionally vague so that the GM can take responsibility for what conditions are sufficient to rule "physically capable". Your GM has to make this call, and it sounds like he did.
For what it's worth, SKR has posted (where was that bookmark...) that he would have no problem with anybody taking any skill or feat and only benefiting from it during those moments in which they meet the prerequisites. For example, a wizard 1 could take Exotic Weapon Proficiency, but she wouldn't benefit from the feat until she leveled up. This is strictly house rule territory, though.
Actually no it's not house rule territory...it's a part of the core rule system. If a fighter takes power attack and then is strength drained below 13, then he no longer qualifies for the feat and it's disabled until he can get his strength fixed. On the other hand a magic belt that boosts strength allows you to qualify for feats you by normal means cannot obtain (ie power attack). So as long as a creature has a legitimate ability to utilize a feat or even item with buffs or magic items, then they can take the appropriate feat.
What I was talking about was taking a feat without meeting its prerequisites at all, effects or no effects. The rules do not allow this, but there's no real reason other than simplicity.
Whether temporary effects allow you to take a feat is up to the GM; the rules do not touch the subject. The rules you mention only address what happens when (1) you already have a feat and enter a state in which you no longer meet one of the feat's prerequisites, or (2) meet the prerequisite as a result of a "permanent" ability score adjustment.
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