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There are three terms used in Pathfinder that describe one's "level".
Caster Level: Generally equal to the number of class levels (see below) in a spellcasting class. Some prestige classes add caster levels to an existing class.
Character Level: The sum of a character's class levels.
Class Level: The level of a character in a particular class.
It is fairly easy to extrapolate the meaning of "Arcane Spellcaster Level" given this framework. You will find many cases in Pathfinder where not everything is defined for you.
Except that people disagree on which of those things it refers to.
It also seems strange that a Carnivalist 1/Draconic Sorcerer 5 would use the Sorcerer levels (that don't provide a familiar) to determine the options for Improved Familiar, and can't count Carnivalist (which does have a Familiar) because its not an arcane spellcaster.
Since there are arcane spellcasters that don't get familiars, and non-arcane casters that do, I think it should be "effective wizard level."
Going with effective wizard (or sorcerer) level as relates to familiars might be nice for characters with Eldritch Heritage. It could be problematic for those like Samasboy1's Carnivalist 1/ Draconic Sorcerer 5 who may have interpreted "arcane spellcaster level" to mean either caster level or level in an arcane spellcasting class (not necessarily the one which granted the familiar)
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Since there are arcane spellcasters that don't get familiars, and non-arcane casters that do, I think it should be "effective wizard level."
I think that was the intended meaning.
I also think the intent was to not allow someone to take it with the pre-reqs fulfilled by two different classes (familiar by one and arcane spellcasting level by another.)
Ive found it easier, to just use the Arcane Caster level requirement and compare it to your effective wizard level when it comes to your familiar. But strictly speaking by the rules it doesnt actually work this way.
yeah, but you could do wizard 5, 2 levels multiclass x and the trait that gives you +2 cl to your spells. pretty sure you qualify for cl 7 improved familiars, but then the familiar would be treated as a level 5 familiar.
Part of this is because when the feat was written traits didnt exist and the only ways to get the familiar would have been wizard or sorcerer.
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A Carnivalist-1/Sorcerer-6 should have no problem qualifying for Improved Familiar, so long as that Sorcerer is of the type that can gain a Familiar (Arcane Bloodline, I believe it is?).
A Draconic Sorcerer would not qualify.
There is no reason why, as it is written currently, Draconic sorcerer wouldn't qualify.
You have a familiar (Carnivalist).
You presumably meet the alignment requirement.
You have high enough "Arcane spellcaster level" (Sorcerer).
There is no text in the feat that the arcane spellcaster levels have to be the source of the familiar.
Take a Carnivalist 1/Magus 3/Draconic Sorcerer 7 with Magical Knack (Sorcerer) and Familiar Arcana and Boon Companion.
Is "arcane spellcaster level"
10 (total levels in arcane spellcasting classes)
7 (highest level in a single arcane spellcasting class)
9 (highest arcane caster level)
3 (level in an arcane spellcasting class with the Familiar ability)
7 (level in an arcane spellcasting class with Familiar plus Boon companion)
8 (total effective wizard level for familiar)
Something else?
Since it says "arcane spellcaster level" why would you not include Draconic Sorcerer?
Since it doesn't advance the familiar, why should Draconic Sorcerer qualify for Improved Familiar?
Even though it isn't an "arcane spellcaster level" why shouldn't Carnivalist help qualify for Improved Familiar since it does have the familiar ability?
Does Boon Companion help qualify for Improved Familiar or just the abilities on the familiar table?
All of this is why I think it should just be "effective wizard level". "Arcane spellcaster level" doesn't have a specific meaning, but "effective wizard level" does.
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Boon Companion would in no way help you qualify for Improved Familiar. I can't see where you got that from.
The prerequisites for Improved Familiar are the ability to acquire a new Familiar and a sufficiently high enough Caster Level.
Would a Fighter, who has neither of those prerequisites, qualify to take Improved Familiar?
No.
Would a Draconic Sorcerer, which does not meet the requirement to obtain a Familiar, qualify?
No.
Would a 1st level Wizard qualify?
No.
Would a 7th level Wizard with a bonded object qualify?
No.
As with anything else, of course multiclassing will muddy the waters, but I do not believe there is any issue with how it works right now.
Boon Companion increases your effective wizard level for your familiar.
Since multiclassing exists in the game, there IS an issue with how it works "right now." Even if the game has elements to encourage single class play, you can't ignore how a mechanic would work for a multiclass character as not an issue.
"Arcane spellcaster level" isn't a defined term in general, isn't defined in the feat itself, and people interpret it in different ways.
A Fighter, with the Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) feat, can have a familiar and has an effective sorcerer level. Does his effective sorcerer level meet the "arcane spellcaster level" requirement?
The Draconic sorcerer can obtain the familiar from any number of sources. And he is already an "arcane spellcaster."
The 1st level wizard doesn't meet the level requirement by any interpretation (assuming single class 1st level).
The wizard with a bonded object could also possibly qualify from any of several possibilities. And he is already an "arcane spellcaster."
Meeting pre-reqs for things by multiclassing isn't just allowed, in some cases its required. Ignoring how it works for any but a single classed character doesn't work.
I agree that prereqs can usually come from a combination of classes. It just isn't clear that "arcane spellcaster level" means here. I'd imagine that many PCs have been built on the assumption that it means "caster level in any arcane class". I'd also imagine that many others have been built on the assumption that it means something more like "effective wizard level in the class which grants the familiar". I don't see either one as problematic from a game balance perspective and wonder if it might be best to let both work.
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I think the most problematic example is the case of the character who has a character level linked SLA. They have already clarified that this meets the requirements for "arcane caster."
Which then raises the question of is "arcane caster level" "(arcane caster) level" (in which case must be levels in class that grants arcane spells) or is it "arcane (caster level)" in which case it is just anything that grants a spell at caster level X.
I had been assuming it was the second. May have to spend a feat on Boon Companion, just to avoid arguements.
The feat Improved Familiar has wording copied almost verbatim from the original 3.5e version. Eventually, there was a feat called Obtain Familiar that allowed anybody with the ability to cast Arcane spells to gain a familiar. For everybody else, with only so many feat slots you had to prioritize, and a familiar wasn't worth dipping so many feats into to gain one.
Now there are multiple ways to gain a familiar, either through a class feature, an alternate class feature, through Eldrich Heritage, or through the new Familiar Bond. Going the feat route works for anybody and everybody now. Those who already had the ability to have a familiar gained something already from this book, whereas those who have not until now had that ability do, but is lacking some basic functionality.
At some point, I'm sure when I play the finalized Kineticist I'm going to want an elemental familiar. Would I qualify? Or am I stuck with a standard fox/cat/rat/eagle? How about my NG Oracle? Am I stuck with a non-Celestial familiar if I choose to buy a feat for a familiar?
If Improved Familiar is intended for Arcane Caster classes only that have an option for a familiar, please say so. Otherwise, could the "Arcane Caster Level" be changed to read "Effective Wizard Level"?
The funny thing about that is, under the Wizard description for the Familiar class feature in 3.5e, it states that:
"A Wizard can obtain a familiar in exactly the same manner as a Sorcerer can."
The Wizard in this case references the Sorcerer. In PFRPG it's the other way around.
A related question is the Familiar Ability table. It has reference to "the master’s combined level in classes that grant familiars". Does this count a Wizard's class levels when they went with Bonded Object? What about Clerics, since there is a Domain that grants a familiar? Do I count Cleric levels then? Or only if I actually get the familiar? If I get a familiar by a feat, how many levels can I count?
Last derail: If that table causes a worse value than the base creature, do you still apply it? [Most Improved Familiar base creatures are smarter than the table will grant, so why do they bother coming? Are they the stupid ones?]
/cevah
if im not mistaken the only levels you count are the levels from the class the given you the familier.
that is why when yo utake level in a prestige class that advences your spellcasting level it specifcly state you don't get advneced in other class abilities
yes, yes, i know they uses difernt kinds of class names in difrent kinds of things that grant familier, it was kinda answered here basicly you treat the level of class that given you the familiwer for the "wizard" class levels.
if im not mistaken the only levels you count are the levels from the class the given you the familier.
The problem with that reading is that it is not what the Rules as Written say. It may be the RAI, but that is not clear (as the continued discussion/arguing shows).
With a growing number of ways that familiars can be got outside of tradition arcane caster situation that question really does need a clearer answer. The inherited terms from 3.5 are just not doing the job here. An FAQ that simply stated "Effective Wizard Level = Arcane Caster Level for the purposes of the Improved Familiar feat" would give an answer (if that is the way the rule is intended - which is really up to the development team to work out for themselves, otherwise something of similar simpleness explaining who it should be defined).
"Effective Wizard Level = Arcane Caster Level for the purposes of the Improved Familiar feat"
taht would be stright up against the whole point of prestige classes only giving you a caster level +1 for casting spells and caster level etc. if you do this then prc levels that increase your acrane caster level would also increase the familiar power . and that is stirght up against the rules.
"Effective Wizard Level = Arcane Caster Level for the purposes of the Improved Familiar feat"
taht would be stright up against the whole point of prestige classes only giving you a caster level +1 for casting spells and caster level etc. if you do this then prc levels that increase your acrane caster level would also increase the familiar power . and that is stirght up against the rules.
No, you are coming at it backwards.
The current wording of Improved Familiar references Arcane Spellcaster level. But only for what familiar you can select, not familiar advancement.
So the suggested FAQ would be that Arcane Spellcaster Level be replaced with Effective Wizard Level precisely so that it is clear that class levels that advance arcane casting but do not contribute to your effective wizard level would not help qualify for Improved Familiar, while also allowing classes without any arcane spellcastimg that do provide effective wizard level for a familiar would help you qualify.
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Nice little two year necro.
I must not have known about Russ Taylor's explanation when I originally replied to this thread:
It also helps Druids or Clerics who picked the Animal domain and I assume oracles as well....True. That wrinkle didn't exist at the time of writing :)Does it actually do that though? Because as it is written, the abilities of your animal companion is treated as if your class were four levels higher to a maximum bonus equal to your character level.
So, as an example a level 6 ranger who has a class level of 6, would have an animal companion that is equal to "effective druid level 3." The feat as its written would boost the ranger level, not the "effective level" which will always be ranger level-3. As a result since the ranger in question is already at maximum class level she would not really benefit from the feat, unles of course she multi-class to another class later.
The same would be applied to druids with the animal domain I presume?
Maximum "bonus" is probably unfortunate wording (not sure if it was in the original draft), but basically, you calculate the abilities of an animal companion or familiar as though your level was four level higher, to a maximum of your actual character level. So a ranger could get the abilities of an animal companion of up to their character level, as opposed to their ranger level - 3. If they've multiclassed, it might still be less than their charater level.
Don't overthink the feat :)
Bolding mine.