A post about the majority of fighter archetypes and how they interact with those gloves, rather than the exception, would probably be more useful.
Spear Training should be a slam dunk, it outright says you have weapon training.
A separate FAQ for Brawler, Archer, Mobile Fighter, etc... would be nice. I suspect they'll say it doesn't count, even though that makes those archetypes inferior to vanilla fighter, even at their supposed specialties (archery and close weapons for archer and brawler, respectively). But one can hope...
Spear Training should be a slam dunk, it outright says you have weapon training.
A separate FAQ for Brawler, Archer, Mobile Fighter, etc... would be nice. I suspect they'll say it doesn't count, even though that makes those archetypes inferior to vanilla fighter, even at their supposed specialties (archery and close weapons for archer and brawler, respectively). But one can hope...
Agreed. My post from the other thread:
The archetype says the Dragoon must select weapon training with the Spear group. Then later, Weapon Training 2, 3, and 4 are explicitly replaced. If an ability is replaced by an archetype, every entry states "This ability replaces ...". If that language isn't there for Weapon Training 1 and the ability says the Dragoon "must select weapon training with the Spear group", it seems clear to me that Spear Training is Weapon Training, just a specific version of it.
what is the frequency kenneth
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If this does get a response, it will probably be "no reply needed."
If this does get a response, it will probably be "no reply needed."
Sad but true.
It's actually a simpler question.
Do Fighter archetypes that get a Weapon Training variant, (such as Archer, Brawler, Crossbowman, Polearm Master, Savage Warrior, Unarmed Fighter), usually in a smaller selection of weapons, and called by a different name, still benefit from Gloves of Dueling for their replacement class feature, or are those gloves restricted to the vanilla weapon training feature only?
TGMaxMaxer has the right question here. This is the one we should FAQ as it's straight to the point and simple. Hopefully we can get an answer on this.
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Is this an accurate rephrasing of the question you're asking?
If an archetype replaces a class ability with a more specific version of that ability (such as a dragoon fighter replacing "weapon training" with "spear training"), does the archetype's ability count as the original ability for the purpose of rules that affect the original ability (such as the gloves of dueling increasing a fighter's weapon training bonus)?
that's a commonly asked question, yes.
Official Rules Response
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FAQ: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qto
Archetype: If an archetype replaces a class ability with a more specific version of that ability (or one that works similarly to the replaced ability), does the archetype's ability count as the original ability for the purpose of rules that improve the original ability?
It depends on how the archetype's ability is worded. If the archetype ability says it works like the standard ability, it counts as that ability. If the archetype's ability requires you to make a specific choice for the standard ability, it counts as that ability. Otherwise, the archetype ability doesn't count as the standard ability. (It doesn't matter if the archetype's ability name is different than the standard class ability it is replacing; it is the description and game mechanics of the archetype ability that matter.)
Example: The dragoon (fighter) archetype (Ultimate Combat) has an ability called "spear training," which requires the dragoon to select "spears" as his weapon training group, and refers to his weapon training bonus (even though this bonus follows a slightly different progression than standard weapon training). Therefore, this ability counts as weapon training for abilities that improve weapon training, such as gloves of dueling (Advanced Player's Guide), which increase the wearer's weapon training bonus.
Example: The archer (fighter) archetype gets several abilities (such as "expert archer") which replace weapon training and do not otherwise refer to the weapon training ability. Therefore, this ability does not count as weapon training for abilities that improve weapon training (such as gloves of dueling). This is the case even for the "expert archer" ability which has a bonus that improves every 4 fighter levels, exactly like weapon training.
So with this ruling, Wildblooded bloodline should count as a standard bloodline and be usable with crossblooded right?
Start a post about that.
